I don't give a fuck who wins the nomination.

[alfredo]

I'm going to work my butt off for our candidate. I'm a Democrat and will stay a Loyal Democrat. I won't betray my party and my nation by voting for a senile bush bot republican just because my guy or gal didn't win the nomination.

[JuniperLea]

1. Wooooot! I'm with you!

I'm sick to death of the dumbasses here on DU who are suffering Kool Aid poisoning and spreading bullshit about both candidates, pulling hair, screaming, fighting... so very vile.

I voted Edwards because he was the only one who was different.

I'll support whole heartedly the one who gets the nomination.

[Bobbieo]

2. Likewise, I'm sure!

[alfredo]

3. Same here. The thought of another neo con in the White House

scares the shit out of me.

[dailykoff]

4. You should.

They are very different, though they appear very similar -- kinda like the real Captain Kirk and the evil doppleganger, if you ever saw that old Star Trek episode.

However, I know you mean well. :thumbsup:

[JuniperLea]

7. Check their policy statements side by side...

Then check their Congressional voting records... they are two peas in a pod where it counts.

[dailykoff]

8. Not so. Their votes are where the difference show sup:

on little votes, they are alike. On BIG, BIG morally defining votes -- IWR, cluster bombs, bankruptcy, Kyl-Lieberman (Iran IWR) -- they are night and day.

You need to turn off the teevee and pay closer attention. :hi:

[JuniperLea]

27. Your insults are telling...

They are the last ill advised tactic used by those who don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. And I won't call you the name I have in my head because it's against the rules.

So, they voted differently, what, four times? Uh huh...

[dailykoff]

44. I'm not insulting your, I'm advising you to pay attention to their votes:

Hillary:
- NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
- YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
- YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
- YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
- Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.

OBAMA:
- YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
- NO on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
- In response to the Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran Obama drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.
- Not then in the Senate but took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution
- OBAMA signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.


McCain:
- NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
- YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
- YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
- YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
- McCain refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.

original post by grassfed: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4990975&mesg_id=4990975

[Phillycat]

30. I'll just mention it for the eleventy billionth time. OBAMA WASN'T IN THE SENATE

for the IWR.

GOD.

[dailykoff]

42. And he still had the guts to speak against it. Hillary didn't. Here's what he said:

"Barack Obama's Stirring 2002 Speech Against the Iraq War"

Senator Barack Obama (D-Il), then an Illinois state senator, delivered these remarks in October 2002 at the Federal Plaza in Chicago:



"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I Don't Oppose All Wars

"I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

"I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

Opposed to Dumb, Rash Wars

"I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

"What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

"That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."

from full speech at link: http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm?rd=1

[Phillycat]

46. Oh, please. You're not a moron, are you?

So then you understand the "bravery" it takes to speak out against a war when you're a STATE SENATOR versus when you're an ACTUAL SENATOR?

If you actually think Obama would have voted against the IWR if he'd been a grown-up senator like Hillary at the time, you've drunk entirely too much of that Kool-Aid.

[dailykoff]

47. Kennedy voted against it, and he seems to agree with me.

I don't think your argument is worth beans.

[stop the bleeding]

5. No doubt, the people of this country can not afford 4 more years.

Shit at this rate they can barely afford 4 more weeks.

:beer:

[bellasgrams]

12. With BO you could get 4 more yrs or even worse. We don't

know, he doesn't even know what he'll do. At least we know McCain is a loyal American. Don't get me wrong I don't like him I just don't think he's as bad as BO. BO admired Reagan, Lieberman was a mentor, first president contender and wife that aren't patriotic.

[stop the bleeding]

14. Did you forget to put a sarcasm note in your post?

Or is this to the wrong person?

:beer:

[tblue37]

15. Bullshit. There are two types of patriotism:

performance patriotism (the kind that Samuel Johnson called "the last refuge of a scoundrel; the kind the Republicans are so adroit at demonstrating) and true patriotism, which is not reducible to flag pins on one's lapel or screeching, "America, right or wrong!"

[alfredo]

28. Correction, Obama admired Reagan's ability to unite people, not what

he did once he gathered them together.

[Seabiscuit]

36. That's like saying you admire Rush Limbaugh's abillity to unite the brain-dead.

[alfredo]

38. Saying Hitler was good at uniting his country doesn't mean you approve

of his actions. Saying the bush junta was good at stonewalling isn't showing approval of stonewalling.

[Seabiscuit]

40. So why would anyone who isn't brain dead say it at all???

You're trying to make a distinction without a difference.

No Democrat in history has ever brought up Ronald Reagan to praise him in any way at all until Barack Obama came along with all that "trajectory" bullcrap.

"Saying the bush junta was good at stonewalling isn't showing approval of stonewalling." Wrong. It DOES show approval. It's like saying someone's a "good liar" as if there could ever be anything "good" about being a liar.

[alfredo]

41. bush has been good at stonewalling. He's been able to prevent

the congress from fully investigating his crimes. Saying a person is good at doing bad is not a compliment. Giving props to Reagan's ability to form public opinion is not necessarily a bad thing. It can be the diplomatic thing to say when you are trying to gain the trust of people who would have been turned off to your message if you spoke ill of Reagan. It is a taboo in many circles to talk ill of the dead.

In retail the hardest and most important task is to get customers in the front door. A good politician knows that too.


Remember:

Brutus was an honorable man.

[Olney Blue]

6. I will work for our Dem as well- I just hope this can get resolved soon.

[wileedog]

9. If the SDs overturn the vote the party can go eff itself

This has nothing to do with Hillary.

If they think they can arbitrarily decide to toss the pledged delegates aside and let the rich party Elite decide on the candidate they want, not who we was rightfully elected, I will not support them in any way.

Because then they learn they can do it whenever they want.

And that is more important than even a 4 year miserable McCain presidency.

Again, if Hillary was rightfully elected, I would be all for her (well, reluctantly, but I would see the importance.) But not under these circumstances.

[bilgewaterbill]

17. I find the whole notion of superdelegates to be aristocratic.

The system needs to be changed.

[frogmarch]

10. Same here, alfredo. K&R n/t

[greyghost]

11. KICK!

[Thepricebreaker]

13. Not everyone votes for someone simply because they have a (D) after their name.

If clinton gets the nod... I leave my ballot blank.

[alfredo]

18. Still, either candidate will be better than McCain. Remember the president

appoints judges to the Federal bench including the Supreme court.

[Swamp Rat]

16. GODDAMN STRAIGHT!!!

DOWN WITH MCCAIN! DOWN WITH THE GOP!!!

[madrchsod]

19. i care but i`ll stick a hillary sign in my yard

fuck the reagan rethugs in my shrine to st ronald

[walldude]

20. K&R!

[knight_of_the_star]

21. EPIC WIN!!!!!!!!!

[crankychatter]

22. I've been voting for the lesser of evils for almost 40 years

I'm too stupid to change now

[HuffleClaw]

23. what the hell is wrong with you?

don't you know you're supposed to be rabidly supporting only ONE democrat?


get with the program!



;-)

[alfredo]

25. I'll go with the one with the best donuts.

[SKKY]

24. Alfredo...

...Spanish for "Anti-Lieberman". :yourock:

[alfredo]

26. Hell yes.

[shaniqua6392]

29. I feel the same way.

Thanks for posting something that is not trash in GD-P. It is refreshing.

[alfredo]

31. We can't let McCain anywhere near the "football" or the Supreme Court.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

32. You are very lucky - wish I would've been smart enough to do that...

n/t

[alfredo]

39. Save that energy for the general election. Not only do we need to beat

McCain, here in Ky we are trying to unseat Mitch McConnell. Democratic turnout is so important this year.

[Eurobabe]

33. I do give a fuck who wins the nomination

but I won't vote for a Repube BushClone, that's for sure.

[alfredo]

34. Same idea. Both Obama and Clinton are better for America than

another asshole republican.

[mdmc]

35. My electoral vote will go to the dem

:kick:

[Blue_In_AK]

37. Right on, Alfredo! n/t

[futureliveshere]

43. Agreed.. Just put up a post saying the same thing!!

[alfredo]

49. I know some that are saying they won't vote for the other candidate

are just expressing the frustration of this protracted battle. Most will calm down, listen to reason and vote for the best candidate, Hillary or Barak.

[futureliveshere]

51. Agreed.. even if this race is resolved in June.. thats still 6 months.. see what can happen in 3.

[alfredo]

54. Reading about the turnout in Charlotte NC for the opening of

Obama's headquarters makes me think Democratic turnout will be very high.

[Life Long Dem]

45. Why doesn't Hillary quit?

She needs to go to the convention to make an attempt at stealing it from Obama. What kind of democrats are we?

[dailykoff]

48. I heard some uncommitted superdelegates interviewed yesterday

and their arguments were lame in the extreme, like they'd been brainwashed by Clinton campaign calls (one of them was in fact gushing about a call he'd gotten from Bill). They're talking about holding out until freaking June. :banghead:

[alfredo]

55. She could be holding the delegates as a bargaining chip.

Delegates equal power.

[McCamy Taylor]

50. Hear, hear!

:toast:

[OzarkDem]

52. If its Obama

I don't really see much difference between the people who control him and those who control McCain. Obama's brief record in the Senate shows no indication he would lead as a Democrat or promote Democratic values.

I'm not sure it would make much difference. If he gets the nom, I'm looking forward to taking some time off of politics for a while.

[Frank Booth]

53. I've come to completely despise Hillary in the past few months.

I can't stand the sight of her. But if (God forbid) she's somehow the nominee, I'll still vote for her over McCain. I don't think she'd be much of a president, but she'd still be infinitely better than McCain who will squander the minimal amount of good will and money that this country still has.