Is this an Obama lie?

[Taxmyth]

"Had the reverend not retired and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws, then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying there at the church," Senator Obama said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/28/obama.pastor/index.html

In any case, the word "Bullshit" came to my mind immediately.

Edited to add this:

I read the responses and re-read the article. My bullshit detector did not go off this time when I looked at what was said and realized that Senator Obama is discussing future events as opposed to past events in giving reasons for why he would have left the Church.

[Ron Green]

1. What a coincidence. That's the very word that came to my mind

as I read your post.

[Taxmyth]

4. Is it a lie?

I don't really understand how they could have a 20 year relationship and Senator Obama saying this. Has the Pastor changed his views and sermons that much over the last year or so causing Senator Obama to say this or is he making a politically expedient statement (in other words, a lie)? Honest question.

[ecdab]

28. It's a hypothetical statement - you may feel that he would have done

differently in some hypothetical world that will never exist, but as a hypothetical statement - it isn't a lie.

[Taxmyth]

30. Detector being sent back in for repairs

I reread the article and saw just that, that he's discussing hypothetical future events. I had originally understood this as Senator Obama ignoring his 20 year relationship with the Pastor and his church. I was wrong.

[gateley]

2. What would you expect a presidential candidate to say?

Do you think Hillary would have answered differently if this was an issue about her? Absurd.

[Taxmyth]

5. So Obama did lie

and you would expect Senator Clinton to do the same thing in this situation and it's no big deal. That's the message I got from your reply. OK, I can live with that.

[gateley]

15. I did not say Obama lied, and you KNOW that.

You're just being obstuse, and you know THAT, too.

If I felt he lied and would expect Senator Clinton to do the same thing in this situation and it's not big deal, that's what I would have said.

:eyes:

Go spread your love elsewhere. :hug:

[Taxmyth]

24. Lie or not?

Serious question. Overall I think this was a politically expedient answer which in no way resembles the truth. This statement, in light of the 20 year relationship Senator Obama has had with Pastor Wright, is bullshit. It seeks to paint Senator Obama in a more positive light and in this particular circumstance, to me at least, it's no big deal. But we seem to be very concerned with Presidential candidates statements lately that have no bearing on policy and I've seen others claim that anyone who does this should never be President.

[desi]

3. Huh?

[Taxmyth]

7. actually, THAT was my first concious response

the next was thinking it was bullshit.

[Maddy McCall]

6. It's the Hypothetical Obama.

He's a saint, hypothetically.

[LaurenG]

8. Well he may have had to quit in order to keep the peace

Although he may not have wanted to. I don't think it's bullshit though. :shrug:

[depakid]

9. Wouldn't call it a lie

but obviously, it's weaseling.

Not sure what else he could have said though without committing political suicide.

[thereismore]

10. Lying about a reaction to a hypothetical situation? No, I don't think that's lying. nt

[jefferson_dem]

11. No.

[LakeSamish706]

12. You might consider this thought; "If ifs were horses Beggars would ride" n/t

[MrSlayer]

13. It cannot be proved to be a lie.

As it is a hypothetical. So no.

[redqueen]

18. Yup.

Skillful politicians use this wisely.

Other ones... well...

[Lucinda]

14. Yup.

[Teaser]

16. how can a counterfactual be a lie?

It's impossible to assess for truth or falsity.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. How uncanny. That was the first word that came to my mind also.

[DemGa]

19. Nah, just a twenty-year oversight of his mentor's views -- Bullshit indeed.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. Pandering

[jillan]

21. I heard that and ran and got my------

[kitfalbo]

22. Thin skinned white folks

"he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people"

The difference being that what he said before didn't offend people or at least not that many. It probably wouldn't have offended me, though i would have disagreed with much.

Remember to some people a single swear word like Bullshit some can find offensive.

The difference now is that his words, even though many are not in full context have offended for the larger part a group of thin skinned white folks. And because a lot of his future constituent's are those he'd probably would feel more comfortable leaving the church at that point.

Now is it a political move, and those who dislike politics may abhor this fact. But he is a politician and making a reasoned choice to leave because it is now offending some of the people he represents is fine.

Lucky I'm a thick skinned while folk.

[anonymous171]

23. You can't prove it. Unlike snipergate and the other lies by Senator Clinton.

[Taxmyth]

36. That is what I like about Senator Clinton

You're right, you can't prove it unlike the Clinton-Bosnia story. I originally looked at the statement from the wrong angle but it's meaningless in the overall scheme of things when looked at properly.

That's what I like about Senator Clinton, though. There are no secrets. There can't be.

[cottonseed]

25. According to Fat Tony Blankley it is.

Saw him mention it on Gregory's train-wreck of a show. If you do think it was a lie, then you'd be pretty much in agreement with this Republican hack. Which I'm sure no respecting DUer would want to be.

[theredpen]

26. Here's the criteria

1. Did that situation actually occur (like, say, Clinton's trip to Bosnia)?

No.

2. If it did occur, did Obama say what really happened?

N/A since it didn't occur, but it would be lying if you gave a false report about what happened (like, say, Clinton's trip to Bosnia).

[Taxmyth]

34. That's what caught my eye

I originally looked at it as a message ignoring past events as opposed to taking an action based on future events. In either case, I didn't see it as being that big a deal. And I don't see the Clinton/Bosnia thing a big deal either.

[theredpen]

39. I tried to convince myself that the Clinton/Bosnia thing isn't a big deal...

...but I can't buy that. It's such a huge lie. It's such a self-aggrandizing lie. It's such a petty lie.

On top of that, she didn't resolve it. She issued a couple of knee-slapping excuses. Obama closed the lid on "pastorgate" as tight as it's going to close. The wingnuts will never stop talking about it, but the rest of the country is bored with it. Clinton's non-resolution of the Bosnia lie is going to continue to haunt her, especially because it played into pre-existing prejudices against her ("the Clintons are liars.").

[jenmito]

27. No. Obama didn't know about Wright's worst sermons until they were SHOWN to him.

And like he said, he DID hear controversial sermons, but none like the ones looped on youtube. It would be easy to prove if he was in the pews during those sermons-just see where he was on those days. They already TRIED to prove he was there during one of those sermons (newsmax reported it) but they were proven wrong when it was shown Obama was in Miami on that day. And he said during one of his first interviews, with Major Garrett on Faux, the same thing he said on The View today. Nothing inconsistent-no lie.

[MattBaggins]

29. Obama does not lie

let this lie though

[Taxmyth]

31. Everybody lies

You're right though, best to let this lie.

[Diane R]

32. Um...if you finally 're-read' the article, and determined you were mistaken, why not fix the title?

[Taxmyth]

41. It was a mistake

but now it's become part of an experiment. I think it would be interesting to see if there are others who mis-read this statement the way I did and what they write about it. I thought I was pretty clear in the edit that this statement by Senator Obama was not bullshit, well actually it was but not the kind of bullshit that somebody needs to take note of. But now I want to see if anyone else got the same first impression as I did and comments about it. This thread will drop like a stone anyway.

[1776Forever]

33. I don't give a crap - Like Jefferson said about religion......

No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

-- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), p. 347

[LisaL]

35. I wonder when did the reverend acknowledged what Obama

claims he did.

[LaurenG]

37. I realize that this has been done to death but I like Rev Wright

We are such a divided country and whites have little idea what AA's have lived through over the last two centuries.

I know there are people on this thread who know that Rev Wright was speaking for millions of Americans about the way AA's have been treated and he was speaking with frustration. Perhaps he was over the top blaming the gov for aids and he certainly insulted American's false sense of themselves as "savior" to the world, not to mention the failure of our own potential to be more accepting.

I am not AA but I live in a multicultural city and I have friends who have discussed their childhoods and their parents/grandparents lives with me at length. The inequality and outrageous treatment they have received was/is abominable. Racism makes me angry and I have faced some nasty treatment in my life but nothing like the treatment of our own AA countrymen and woman.

I don't blame Pastor Wright for stating his opinion in his own church about his strong feelings over the direction of our country, I have felt similarly.

I don't think Senator Obama was lying, I think he knows he couldn't have stayed without causing considerable discord with millions of voters. He most likely would have been sad to do it but he would have had to go.

[ORDagnabbit]

38. was he dodging sniper fire when he said this?

[krawhitham]

40. Unprovable , just another dumb thread

[emilyg]

42. It is bullshit.