Just a reminder: Obama is a liberal.

[anonymous171]

And according to the Clinton campaign, too liberal.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign has also started slapping the L-word on Obama, warning that his appeal among moderate voters will diminish as they become more aware of liberal positions he took in the past, such as calling for single-payer health care and an end to the U.S. embargo against Cuba. "The evidence is that the more have been learning about him, the more his coalition has been shrinking," Clinton strategist Mark Penn said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/25/AR2008032503082.html?hpid=topnews

And a flashback from 2007, where Senator Clinton said Obama was "too far left"

Using a curious tactic in a Democratic primary season dominated by liberals, Hillary Rodham Clinton Tuesday accused Barack Obama of being too far left to be elected president — citing a decade-old questionnaire indicating Obama once opposed the death penalty and backed socialized medicine.{/div]
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/12/5776/

[TTUBatfan2008]

1. Mark Penn...

is an asshole.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

2. The evidence is that

the more twinkies Mark Penn eats, the bigger his chin gets.

Evidence, may butt. What evidence?

[RazBerryBeret]

3. curious tactic,

indeed....but Liberal is not a dirty word in my circles...

[anonymous171]

5. Agreed. We need to reclaim this word.

[polichick]

4. I only wish he was MORE liberal...

...liberal enough to call himself liberal!

<>

[maximusveritas]

6. I'm sure we'll see many Krugman columns on this

:sarcasm:

[anonymous171]

7. It's interesting. Many Clinton supporters labor under the false belief that Obama is conservative.

Now Clinton's own campaign contradicts them.

[RazBerryBeret]

8. yeah, I noticed that too....

but he WAS designated the most liberal Senator--based on his voting record.
I was hoping for a little more liberal too, but I won't complain.....compared to McCain!!! eeek!

[City Lights]

13. Some of her supporters are in terminal denial.

Not even Hillary can change their minds, yet it's the Obama people who are labeled "cultists" and "Kool-Aid drinkers." :eyes:

[glowing]

9. Really.. I guess my definition of liberal has changed drastically if Obama is

a liberal.. I don't know what you'd call real liberals then?

[anonymous171]

10. I'm just quoting the Clinton campaign on this one.

They're my evidence for his Liberal-ness.

[UALRBSofL]

11. Actually Hillary and Obama are pretty much on the same level of being liberal

And this is some interesting facts I have read about Clinton and it also relates to Obama.

Saul Alinsky was the subject of Hillary Rodham's senior honors thesis at Wellesley College. Now, Alinsky was pretty much considered

the founder of radical left wing ideas for the poor and powerless that created a backyard revolution in the 60's. Anyway, here is a

couple paragraphs that lays the foundation of Alinsky's model.


In his Rules for Radicals, Alinsky outlines his strategy in organizing, writing,

"There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevsky said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families - more than seventy million people - whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year . They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default.."<2>

Now this is an interesting idea and how it related to the Clinton's.

Alinsky is often credited with laying the foundation for the grassroots political organizing that dominated the 1960s.<3> Later in his life he encouraged stockholders in public corporations to lend their votes to "proxies", whom would vote at annual stockholders meetings in favor of social justice. While his grassroots style took hold in American activism, his call to stock holders to share their power with disenfranchised working poor only began to take hold in U.S. progressive circles in the 1990s, when shareholder actions were organized against American corporations.

Alinsky was a critic of a passive and ineffective mainstream liberalism. In Rules for Radicals, he argued that the most effective means are whatever will achieve the desired ends, and that an intermediate end for radicals should be democracy because of its relative ease to work within to achieve other ends of social justice. In 1969, he was awarded the Pacem in Terris Peace and Freedom Award.

Now, the above paragraph I can relate with him and what americans have become since the 60's. Americans have become a "passive and ineffective mainstream liberalism". We are nothing like the 60's radicals.

Now, Hillary, in her thesis agreed with Alinsky except for change can come from the inside out. She believed change has to come from the outside. That I agree with.

Now, some more interesting information. Alinsky also had a significant influence on Barack Obama. Obama particularly used Alinsky's techniques while participating in Chicago community organizations in the 1980s.

What this means to me is I don't see much of a difference in the candidates philosophy and ideals. It also appears they have molded there strategy of change and direction of government after the Alinksy Model.

I hope this was helpful information for some, and, didn't come across as cheesy. It was just something that interested me and I thought I would share it with you guys.

[anonymous171]

12. Wow. Thanks for the info!

:toast:

[OzarkDem]

14. No evidence of that in his record

He's the shape shifter, says what people want to hear, but does precious little except run for higher office.

[anonymous171]

19. So Hillary and her campaign are wrong?

[UALRBSofL]

21. OzarkDem, I can't say what Obama accomplished in the 80's and 90's

Because I haven't examined his records. Also, I don't believe there are records showing his work during that time. But, there is a perception in the Chicago area of his grass roots work. Now, you may be right in your assessment that he is a beltway insider with an empty suit syndrome. I think there are a lot of people that really don't know a lot about Obama, since he is new to congress. My post was just pointing out the similarities in the candidates and there beliefs of governing and how it reflects the Alinsky model.

[aaroh]

15. obama is progressive - he wants progress, simple really

[skater314159]

16. Liberal = Good...

I just wish he were more Liberal and more "out, loud, and PROUD!" about it.

I'm against the death penalty, the war, prisoner abuse, and I want socialised medicine.

I wonder how far left of Hillary that puts me?

[sloppyjoe25s]

17. Great Post

Nice to pull this Clinton hypocrisy back into the light.


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[Cali_Democrat]

18. OMG he's a left winger? I had no idea.

All the more reason to vote for him

[msallied]

20. He's Liberal with a capital "L"

As should we all be, Democrats and Republicans alike. This country was founded on the principles of Liberalism. It's a shame how this word has been distorted and turned into something bad. Our founding fathers are probably spinning in their graves.

[readmoreoften]

22. Too bad she's wrong. /nt