Is there one Hillary fan willing to ADMIT that she/he is supporting Hillary because of her gender?

[RBInMaine]

I'm just interested here. It is one of the MANY questions about Hillary that I can't get a SINGLE Hillary supporter to answer.

(C'mon folks. You can admit it. MANY of you want a WOMAN, and that is what you are mainly voting on. No, I'm not trying to start any kind of gender argument here, but I'd like an honest answer. As an Obama supporter I'm willing to admit his race is a heavy factor with some people. For me, and I'm a white male, it's not at all about gender but mainly because I really want someone NEW, and I find him very inspirational, much moreso than Hillary. I think he's brilliant, I agree with him on policy, but I also agree very largely with Hillary on substance too. It's because he's NEW, far less polarizing, and I am tired of Bushes and Clintons.)

(Other Hillary fan questions are why she won't provide tax returns and other documents, how you feel about her hokey Bosnia story and long list of other exaggerations, just what her "experience" advantage is over Obama, ??? etc.)

[JeffR]

1. .

:popcorn:

[Yael]

4. The funniest thread in a week

and you are screwing off over here munching on popcorn.

:D

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5302101

[TahitiNut]

7. But THIS one has crotch-sniffing!

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[VolcanoJen]

18. Ha!!!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Yael]

21. Bwa!

you win. :D

[JeffR]

24. Only because I've decided no internecine warfare threads

will get DUzy consideration. It IS funny, but I'm already walking a fine line with candidate wars snark.

[Yael]

26. I found this week's report to be fair and balanced

And freaking funny.

:patriot:

[JeffR]

33. Thanks. It;s bit of a tightrope. I had about 10 killer nominations

sent to me that I just thought went a little too far, so I didn't use them. Including one, amazingly, critical of Condi Rice. I hate this editorial discretion jive.

[Yael]

41. You rock, Jeff. Thanks for keeping the integrity of the awards

away from the snark fest.

:hug:

[TahitiNut]

49. I'll second Yael's kudo.

It's rather refreshing to see someone exercise judgment conscientiously, without grinding a pet axe, in this political Fargo.
:hi: ... even if you have caught me over 50 times. :grr: :dunce:

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Don't you have anything better to do?

[RBInMaine]

6. Well, what with this being a political blog and all I just thought I'd talk POLITICS.

[RBInMaine]

9. You don't have time to answer the questions?? Hmm. Pretty typical I find.

[merwin]

3. A politican exaggerated a situation?

*Shocking*

[DerekJ]

5. I don't think they will. But I could be wrong.

[DJ13]

8. I think most of the "Hillary is 44" crowd is still on strike, arent they?

I could see any of them answering your question, but the ones that remain are more the conservative type of supporters, not Feminists.

[TheDoorbellRang]

45. Voting for Hillary because she is female

does not necessarily conflate with being a feminist, IMO.

I consider myself a feminist, which to me means that I support someone for president because of their qualifications; their genitalia do not enter into the selection process. I really cannot imagine anyone here at DU voting for Clinton solely because she is a woman. I can imagine someone choosing her because of what they consider to be her special qualifications, with her being a woman an added bonus.

[Whisp]

10. the Bosnia story wasn't hokey, it was a straight out lie.

so was with freeing Northern Ireland and gawd knows how many other lies.

feh. who needs the same shit we've been wallowing in for years.

Buck Fillary.

[DUgosh]

11. Meeeeeeeeeeee

:hide:

[Dogmudgeon]

12. Suppose the basis of one's support is not gender?

It's like asking the same question about Barack Obama and his race.

(I don't view Hillary and Obama as a woman and a black man, but as individuals. Yes, I've thought this through many times. We have two superb candidates in rivalry, and they are "minorities" of a sort, though certainly from unprivileged groups.)

(Other Obama fan questions that can be asked gratuitously are why he won't release his IL legislative record, how you feel about his multiple explanations for several mini-crises including those he had no complicity in, just how "hope" and novelty ar going to build more progress than tenacity, ??? etc.)

--p!

[TheDoorbellRang]

52. I most heartily agree with you on one point

You said: I don't view Hillary and Obama as a woman and a black man, but as individuals.

I get a little weary of the media's constant exclaiming: "Wow! A woman! A black man! Wow!"

Kinda wish they'd start on McCain: "Wow! A really old guy!"

[Yael]

57. Heres ya some weekend entertainment

Google "mccain old jokes"

:thumbsup:

[Double T]

13. NOT supporting HRC because of her gender; ONLY supporting HRC because SHE is the.........

MOST COMPETENT and QUALIFIED. Not AGAINST obama because he is a multiracial male; ONLY AGAINST obama because HE is a fraud and unaccomplished.

[MercutioATC]

19. Can you detail those "accomplishments" and "qualifications"?

The way I see it, Obama has more experience representing people as an elected official (President's wives aren't elected).

...and, since they both have similar qualifications...aside from the first lady experience...I dcon't see how Obama is "unaccomplished".


Would you care to elaborate on your very vague and poorly-phrased contentions?

[Double T]

25. Sorry teacher, I didn't know I was posting for an English test.

HRC is a second term Junior Senator. obama is a first term freshman Senator. So much for who has the MOST national experience as a U.S. Senator. obama voted 'present' more than 130 times as an Illinois legislator; we don't need a President with a track record of being indecisive. Requiring K Street lobbyists to stand instead of sitting while conspiring with our U.S. Legislators is NOT the kind of CHANGE that will give US ANY HOPE!!

[Yael]

29. In other words, no, you can't.

Check. :thumbsup:

[Double T]

32. Denial of the facts and truth.

[Yael]

40. Hey - I have all night!

Please do back up the dumptruck and enlighten us with "facts" and "truth".

:popcorn:

[Double T]

54. I don't.

Here YOU go. There's plenty MORE where this came from.....but then there's denial, again.

http://realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/the_obama_delusion.html

[Yael]

56. You "don't" have anything but an OpEd from 6 weeks ago?

Nothing about foreign policy experience, legislative experience, domestic policy experience? Nada?

Okie doke!

[RBInMaine]

31. You're just echoing a few Hillary talking points. You are very weak on details here.

[RBInMaine]

30. SPECIFICALLY DETAIL Hillary's "accomplishment" advantage over Obama.

Obama has an ivy league education, law professor, community organizer, MORE time in legislative experience than Hillary at MORE levels, has MORE legislative bills passed than Hillary at MORE levels, and as much EXPERIENCE as Lincoln when he became President. SO please answer in detail as requested.

[Yael]

36. You are dangerously close to that territory known as

"math" and beware -- "facts" is just on the other side.

Tread carefully. Lots of landmines over here in "emotion".

[crispini]

14. One of my fellow precinct chairs told me exactly that.

Of course, she's not a DU'er, but that was exactly what she said.

[Noirceuil]

15. Identity Politics are for the Obamists...

1) Black people are supporting him because he is black
2) White liberals are supporting him because "it would be so nice to see a black president"

It's sad really. Obama's candidacy is not what Martin Luther King meant by "I have a dream".

*Incidentally, this post marks my introduction of the word "Obamist". It refers to those who belong to the Obama cult of personality.

[Yael]

27. Then there is the age old classic

He isn't Hillary Clinton.

:hi:

[RBInMaine]

44. Oh PLEASE. Yeah right, Not a single person is voting for her on gender? On what planet??

[emilyg]

58. On the same planet - that not one

person is voting for Obama because he's black. Yea, sure.

[jobycom]

16. I want someone new with enough experience to enact the change I want to see.

It would be cool to have either the first black president or the first female president, but more than that, I actually want the changes we've all been talking about for eight years. I'm tired of hope, I want achievement. Thus, Clinton.

And I don't trust Obama. I watched all candidates objectively from the beginning. I saw Obama repeating the "Clinton voted for war" meme, when he, unlike his supporters, understands better. I watched him blast her for taking money from lobbyists, again when he knew better. I watched him go on the Daily Show and admit to Jon Stewart that he said things that weren't "on the level," and that insiders understood weren't true--he was talking about the lobbyists and the war, more than likely. I watched his wife imply that Clinton was a bad wife, couldn't run her household. I watched him allude to the made-up scandals of the 90s as though they reflected badly on the Clintons, rather than defending her. On and on, up until the race-baiting over Clinton's LBJ comments.

He's a dirty campaigner. I think it's more because he's weak-willed and inexperienced than that he's evil. He doesn't know where to draw the lines, and that's allowed Clinton to open up a can of nasty, and it's degenerated. I grew to dislike him, and the more I watch him, the more I see an inexperienced local politician in way over his head. He doesn't get what it takes to do the job, and he see him as a failure if elected. At a time when we most need skillful leadership, we've got a hope-meister. He hopes we can change. He hopes we can succeed.

His hubris, if we win, will give us four years of bad leadership followed by another twelve years of Republican rule.

That's a lot more important to me than gender or race.

[RBInMaine]

35. He has as much experience as Lincoln had, and Hillary is the Queen of dirty pool.

[jobycom]

80. That's not accurate

Lincoln was involved in politics for much of his life--more like Clinton than Obama. His life shows a steady climb from local politics to state government to national power broker, and part of the reason he held so few offices was because of the radical stances he took. He opposed the Mexican-American War, and that cost him his seat in the US House (contrast that to Obama, who voted to keep troops in Iraq the first chance he got, out of fear of derailing his political career--a fact which proves to me that he would have voted for the IWR if he had been in the senate). Lincoln worked to help elect Zachary Taylor as president, and was offered the governorship of the Oregon territory in return. It was an offer meant to get Lincoln out of the way, because his liberal ideology was starting to scare some politicians. Lincoln was a powerbroker as a lawyer and in Illinois politics long before he became a primary force in the infant Republican Party in 54, and began shaping national politics. Compared to Lincoln (and Clinton), Obama has been a lifelong slacker.

As for dirty pool, I came into this primary with no candidate. I saw what happened, and have enough experience to understand it. That's why I'm a Clinton supporter. You've been sold a bill of goods, just like those who believed all the lies about Kerry, and Gore, and the other Clinton. Obama's been the dirty one, but like Reagan and both Bush's he's been able to look clean. In a couple of years, when Obama has lost, or won and failed, the articles will come out explaining it all, and a new phrase will be born, and liberals and progressives will lament the fact that Clinton was "Obama-ed," or whatever term emerges to replace "swiftboated" and "the vast right wing conspiracy" and "Roved" and "Gingriched." That's what's happening here, and sadly, this time the Democrats are, at least in part, behind it--although the Republicans started it in 06 when they began trying to portray her as a conservative. We are no better than the Republicans at recognizing character assassination, sadly. Long afterwords, you can't find people who admit they bought it.

I know you don't see it. You wouldn't support Obama if you did.

And for the Hell of it, Wilson is a better example than Lincoln of a president with no political experience. He had only been a governor for two years. Although, to be fair to Wilson, he was one of the top academic scholars on government, had published definitive works on Congress, and had been a chief executive--president of Princeton--so he at least had learned how to exercise executive power. He had developed a reputation of reformer before he became president of Princeton, and seemed to have a knack for leadership and reform, and like all such people (I'm not including Obama), sought out positions of leadership. Like Obama (and Lincoln), he was also reknowned for his rhetorical skills. He's not as romantic as Lincoln, but the comparison is closer--even though he still leaves Obama under the table as far as experience goes. I can't think of a successful president with so little preparation as Obama.

[flowomo]

17. I'm probably voting Obama in PA, but I am a Hillary fan....

because she is a Democrat, because she has done much good over many years, because I would trust her judgement ahead of about 80 percent of all other people in Congress on most occasions, because I would expect her to vote the right way more often than 80 percent of all the other people in Congress on most occasions, because I admire her guts and for staying in the game despite taking a terrific pounding from her enemies (from 1988 onward), and, yes... because she is one of the few women who have taken a place among the political power elite in this country.

[StevieM]

20. I'm a white male and I'm supporting Hillary

It has nothing to do with wanting a woman president. I'm sure the Obama people will logically conclude I support her because I'm a bad person. After all, Obama's entire campaign is about calling Hillary a bad person (in so many words) so her supporters must be bad people too. I'm sure he'll be happy to win without our vote.

I don't care about this tax return nonsense and Hillary didn't lie about Bosnia, she mis-spoke.

Steve

[RBInMaine]

39. NO, Obama people like me don't "hate" Hillary, but SNIPERGATE is a CONCOCTION !

NOT just a "misstatement." Puhlease. She REPEATED this story over and over and MOST details WERE NOT TRUE. Please don't put lipstick on a pig. She lied and got caught. Case closed.

[Upton]

55. Well then, she "misspoke" on 4 different ocassions

when, if ever, does it become lying?

[SwampG8r]

69. wait wait wait

oh my god
nixon WAS innocent
he was just mis-speaking
oh what a wrong we perpetrated

1 time is mistake
2 times is bad memory
4 times and a work-in to a stump speech is lying

ask your grandmother she will explain it to you

[joshcryer]

22. I support Hillary because she is universially hated.

And haters need to get what's coming to them one day.

[DerekJ]

65. This is the dumbest reason I have heard so far!!!

[joshcryer]

70. Please have substance when you reply to me.

Thanks.

[jillan]

23. Fran Drescher.

I heard her on Larry King one nite and she said that it was time to have a woman in charge.

[Yael]

28. You support HRC because Fran Drescher thinks a [generic] woman should be 'in charge'

Wow.

[jillan]

42. Yael - that's not what I said.

You asked if there were any Hillary supporters that supported her because she is a woman, and I answered Fran Dreschler.

Tell me that you were just trying to be funny.

[Yael]

46. My bad. I wasn't the OP. I thought he was asking for personal

ancedotes and your response was Fran Drescher.

It seemed a little off the charts -- glad to see you were relating HER thoughts and not your own feelings.

:blush:

[littlebit]

34. Yes that is the only reason I support her.

Well that and I am a southerner so you know what that means. :sarcasm:

[Yael]

38. You know how to make gravy with flour and really GOOD dry rubbed BBQ?

[littlebit]

43. Yeah

that too lol. :hi:

[Yael]

50. Raised the teenage years in Georgia

I miss real grits. My favorite part of My Cousin Vinnie (yes, I am a dork -- I LOVE that movie) is when he is cross examining the guy about cooking breakfast while witnessing the crime. "NO self-respecting southerner would make instant grits". Makes me homesick. Even the freaking IHOP in north Georgia made REAL grits.

/offtopic

[emilyg]

59. The inn at Calloway Gardens has the best grits.

[Yael]

62. Did I mention that I am homesick lately?

:cry:

[emilyg]

68. Come back little Sheba. Come back home.

[SwampG8r]

71. i never understood the need for

instant grits
you still have to boil the water and you still have to stir for a while
just not 4 to 6 minutes
so you only save at best 3 minutes
3 minutes is worth it for good grits

[littlebit]

79. You need to go get you some grits.

That will help you feel a little less homesick.

[PerfectSage]

37. I'm against Hilliary because of her lack of character integrity.

The "i" between the "l" and "a" is intentional.

[DerekJ]

66. That logo will give someone a seizure

:) :hi:

[PerfectSage]

75. Grims...fuckin'...by, ON

:toast: Canada, Best mofo country on the planet.

Yes we are blessed Derekj

[SwampG8r]

72. HiLLIARY ?brilliant nm

[McCamy Taylor]

47. I am neutral but Hillary's best point is Bill, I am a woman BTW. Bill is brilliant

and a great leader. He should be allowed to serve two more terms like FDR. Term limits discriminate against populist presidents. Hillary is adequate. Bill is as smart as Nixon but a much nicer human being. It is a good combo.

Obama is also smart and a nice human being.

[NashVegas]

48. Hell, I've Said That, Plenty

There is very little difference between the two candidates, so I've chosen to vote for Hillary because I'm a woman and would like to see a female president in my lifetime, and I think she'd be damn good at it.

Ain't no reason in the world to apologize for that.

[democrattotheend]

51. I'm an Obama supporter, but I will admit I feel guilty sometimes

As a woman, sometimes I feel guilty for not supporting Clinton. As much as I want Obama to win, every time it looks like Clinton's campaign might be over, part of me feels a little sad. I think the fact that she is a woman is why I would still be enthusiastic about voting for her if she got the nomination, even though I am disappointed with the way she has conducted herself during this campaign.

[McCamy Taylor]

53. I am a woman and I do not feel compelled to vote based on gender at all. Folks are folks.

Edwards was the most compassionate candidate. That was why I chose him.

[Pringles]

60. I am supporting Obama because he is not a white woman.

[readmoreoften]

74. I'm sure there are many Obama supporters who have no problem with that. /nt

[4_Legs_Good]

61. I'm an Obama supporter, but I certainly would consider Clinton's gender an asset as far as my vote

is concerned. Not that that would be enough for me. I consider Obama's race a plus too. I'm all for breaking barriers, and love to see the chance to do it.

But I've never been a real Clinton fan (either), so the gender thing isn't enough to push me over to her side.

Sorry, you weren't asking me, though.

David

[PylesMalfunction]

63. I'm not a Hillary fan but....

I'd actually be more likely to vote for her if she were a guy. :D I think it would be pretty nifty to vote for the first gay couple in the WH.

Of course, I'll vote for her in November if she's on the ticket regardless of her gender.

[AmericanUnity]

64. If Hillary were a man and not married to Bill she'd never have gotten this far.

[niceypoo]

67. Now Obama's 'supporters' are openly attacking and taunting Hillary supporters?

Obama needs their votes if he gets the nomination.

Obama's 'supporters' are going to lose it for him.

[readmoreoften]

73. Is there one Obama fan willing to ADMIT that she/he is supporting Obama because of his race?

:sarcasm:

Do you people ever fucking stop? Ever? Your nasty attitude is pushing people out of the party. STOP IT. The problem isn't Clinton--and don't give me a bunch of shit because I well know damn well that she triangulates and that she's a center-right candidate, as is Obama, as was Biden, Dodd, and Richardson.

The problem is YOU PEOPLE and your absorption of right-wing talking points. You are ruining the party demonizing a candidate who is ALMOST IDENTICAL to your own on the issues--and her supporters. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you people TRYING to lose the election?

[Beacool]

76. I support Hillary because I think that she's the best candidate.

I also hope she stays until the very end because I think that Obama is not experienced enough to be president and it would break my heart that for the first time I would not vote for the Democratic nominee.

The fact that she is a woman fills me with pride, but I would not vote for her if I didn't think that she would make a great president.

[TK421]

77. I'll answer your question...absolutely NOT

has nothing to do with gender..sorry about that

[crankychatter]

78. little known fact about old white men

Well this ONE, anyhow.

In 35 years of voting, mostly working and not all that active...

I have had a formula for voting... so I don't have to strain a head muscle... this is it.

I vote for the Democrat.

If it's two Democrats, I vote for the WOMAN.

If it's two Democrats and both are women?

I vote for the NEW WOMAN.

It would be a pleasure to vote for my first female President.

I just wish it wasn't THIS one... and that's a hard decision based upon two factors

POLICY and CHARACTER

But I held my nose for slick Willy, and championed his candidacy twice.

I didn't create the system. I just have to live in it.