I don't want Hillary to drop out, I just want her to cut the crap......

[FrenchieCat]

I just want Hillary to be honorable in this race. I want her to start talking about her plans, and stop with the "weighing in" on Wright and bullshit like that.

The problem is not that Hillary is still running. The problem is how Hillary is still running that I have a problem with.

I will add that I want all of the surrogates to stop the nonsense as well, and just talk about the issues, and boost their own candidate without tearing into the other one running.

As an Obama supporter, I don't believe that competition is bad for him.....because then he shines. I just don't like the dirty dealing going on within the party; that is what is so destructive. So if Hillary would start acting like a grown up running for public office instead of Tonya Harding running to save her own skin, then I have nothing to say about her quest at the nomination.....no matter how futile it might end up being.

[Maddy McCall]

1. Chairman Dean wants Obama and Hillary to cut the crap.

So Obama's not as faultless as you would have everyone believe.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5298026&mesg_id=5298026

[bridgit]

2. Fair enough k&r'd...

[undeterred]

3. But she can't seem to stop making a fool of herself

and her husband is even worse. They are both in self destruct mode. I never realized until now how much alike they have become. When desperate, LIE.

[EFerrari]

8. Maybe no one will believe me but I do feel sad about Bill Clinton.

He was on a fair way to repairing his image. He was beloved around the world.

It's sad to see that good work being eroded so recklessly. :(

[undeterred]

11. I loved that man. Got to meet him in 2006.

So many good things about him. But he is way too involved in this and I think he wants it for himself.

[EFerrari]

15. Where did you meet him? My mom stood in line for hours

to go to his book signing up here -- and she drove an hour and a half to get here. :)

[undeterred]

29. He came to Milwaukee to campaign for our governor

I was working on a congressional campaign so 2 of us got tickets to be on the bleachers behind him. It meant standing for a long time and waiting. It was a thrill to shake his hand. And I have to say that after 6 years of Bush it was wonderful to listen to someone so intelligent and worthy of the presidency. He certainly worked hard for the Democratic governors in 2006- I think he did something like 27 stops in the last couple of weeks. He sat down next to Congresswoman Moore- asked her a couple of questions for his notes- and then when he stood up he didn't make a single mistake. He spoke forever and enjoyed it. I don't know why I didn't ask for an autograph. He was very patient with everyone- he is the opposite of Bush- loves people. There are a lot of good things about him.

[EFerrari]

32. I agree. That's what makes this such hell.

[Skidmore]

57. I think you are absolutely correct in your assessment of Bill.

Hillary is his chance for revenge and vindication. The office for her is not so much about her but a chance for him to get a do-over and on his terms. He has not been an asset to her campaign but very much a liability. One of the reasons I consistently have not supported her is that I believe the nation will not benefit from a third term for Bill Clinton anymore than it will benefit from a third term for * in the person of McCain. We need to end this destructive recycling of two families locked in a really dysfunctional love-hate relationship. They are toxic people. Toxic people do nothing but destroy those around them. I choose not to have a relationship with this family any more on any level.

[lligrd]

18. I Think It Is Sad To See Both Of Them Behave This Way

especially after I defended them all those friggen years. I only supported Obama because Hillary let me down by supporting *'s war and desecration of the Constitution. And I have always had doubts about NAFTA and Clinton's Welfare limits. In fact, I often wondered why Repukes hated him so much sine he had accomplished quite a bit for them.

[EFerrari]

22. I have a similar resentment for all the years I stood up for them

when the Republican noise machine was after them nonstop.'

It's just politics. My choice to defend them then, my choice to stop enabling them now.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Don't forget the bank deregulating bill and the Telecom Act.....

more bad news that we are suffering for today. :(

[lligrd]

45. How Could I Forget Those

You are so right.

[caledesi]

71. I agree! NT

[knight_of_the_star]

4. Although the OP and response

Are not inherently Fail, both serve to make bigger Fail as they will attract flaming

[FrenchieCat]

5. someone responded that is on ignore.

Cannot respond. That's the way it goes. :shrug:

[Blue-Jay]

10. Was it me?

I don't know much about cutting the crap, but I love cake.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OFzNXUUSFF0

[bridgit]

37. Not to worry, for a site purported to be Lib/Pro there's a shit load of ignorance here @ DU

Far more than it's share

[EFerrari]

6. You're a better person than I am. I just want her to go away.

She's turned the first viable woman's run into a sewer and she's turning what should be a cakewalk into a struggle.

And, she won't. She'll tank the party before she gets the message all of us have seen for weeks.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Well, the Obama campaign as formally said that Obama is not calling on her to drop out.....

and I have to respect that coming from him. I think that there is a certain blowback that can be earned with that kind of call. I think that it is not required for Hillary to drop out in order for Obama to end up with the nomination. Sometimes, the electorate don't like to be told who should drop out and who shouldn't right before they get ready to vote. That's partially why I'm on that Obama theme. Competition is good, as long as it is clean. Whether Hillary can actually run a clean campaign; that might be the question.

[EFerrari]

13. That''s the right stance for them to take.

As a voter, my responsibilities and priorities are different.

Hillary Clinton is hurting our chances of winning in November. She knows it. The media is saying it. The Obama campaign can't really say it.

I'm glad she ran but now, she's just self destructing and taking us all along with her.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Problem is that it doesn't matter who says it, Obama will be blamed.

Because this is a intra-Democratic situation, it really should be kept cleaner....especially after all that has already happened.

[EFerrari]

19. Well, whoever we run, the same thing would happen.

Right? That's how they try to tear down Democrats.

Let's hope some clear heads in the party stop this sh!t soon so we can get on with the business of winning.

[merh]

43. Keep in mind what he said today on The View

He didn't go for Hillary's throat when he could have, he stayed above the mess.

He said that "Senator Clinton is a bright and dedicated public servant, she was my friend before this contest began and she will be my friend after it ends"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x111532

When the bashers here start bashing him for being as negative as Hillary has been, give them the link and walk away. Don't fall for their petty games. Stick to the issues and let them continue with their petty "gotcha" games and snark.

The important thing is that a dem wins the White House. You and I agree that he is the better of the two. We just need to focus on the positives and ignore the negatives (with an occasion calling them out on their bullshit and her lies ;) )

[EFerrari]

44. I didn't catch that and can't watch on this back up machine.

Did he smile and all? Imho, he's got a good sense of humor and people connect with it.

All he has to do is stay on the high road. And that's amazing.

[merh]

46. It was a good interview.

He was personable and funny and by the end of it, even the nutty right wing elisabeth said she would campaign for him. She tried to get him with all the right wing talking points about Wright being his mentor and friend for 20 years, but he just listened to her questions and answered her truthfully and rationally. Sherry, one of the other hosts, said she was for Hillary but now wants to campaign for him on the weekends.

I hope you get to catch the interview, it was good. The links are in the video forum and there are 3 parts to it.

[grantcart]

7. crap = rant on michigan and florida

[FrenchieCat]

12. Yup. And surrogates calling folks Judas, or attempting to

sell to the superdelegates that "maybe there is something else about Obama that we don't know", or that "he'll lose cause he's Black, and people are still prejudice, you know" (a la Rendell).

Also Bill needs to STFU about how great McCain is.

See, I don't know if these things can stop. I kinda of doubt it.

[grantcart]

17. I still can't believe how the Judas thing just went away -- It was clear

extortion -- not at Richardson but at all of the New York Superdelegates who are thinking how in the hell do they got off this S.S. Minow before it sets off on its 3 hour tour.

[EFerrari]

26. This is like the break up from hell, isn't it? n/t

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. Wish they'd both start beating the snot out of McCain....

n/t

[FrenchieCat]

21. That would be wisest.......

but even today, Bill had great things to say about McCain. I consider that to be a real problem.

[CatnHat]

20. You last paragraph

says it all ". . .instead of "Tonya Harding". . If you want Hillary to cut the crap, start by looking in the mirror. Like Bill Richardson says; I will not play "gutter" politics, then his very next sentence is slamming Hillary Clinton's advisor's, etc. calling them somehow "entitled"???? If any of the Obama supporters are confusing "strength" with "immaturity" that's their problem. Clinton plays hardball and that's exactly what we need to take the WH. If you have been paying attention, Hillary Clinton HAS focused on the issues; it's the Obama distraction destroying the creditability of the democratic party.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Hardball to destruction isn't required when one is fighting one's own......

and since you can't see that as a problem, that is why you are part of that problem.

Strength is not lying and conspiring and piling on and complimenting the enemy while pushing a knife into one of your own.

There is a difference you know.

Maybe you don't.

[CatnHat]

35. Just like Ted Kennedy

who took Carter to the convention--- Didn't Ted Kennedy destroy the party???????? Oh, that's right, Ted Kennedy is an Obama supporter so what he did was right.

Obama is far from being the clean candidate you want him to be. Obama has more than his share of surrogates that are vile, angry people who by their posts actually "hate" Clinton. Standing on stage with that guy who compared Bill Clinton with Joe McCarthy isn't what I would call staying above the fray. Trouble with Obama, he loves it when his surrogates go around acting like "monsters". Yeah, Clinton is outspoken, but at least we know where she is coming from, not hiding behind supporters.

[EFerrari]

41. Oh, please.

She doesn't hide behind surrogates? Are you a Shaker?

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

25. I hope you're not driving tonight.

We heard for a good year how Hillary was inevitable. Talk about disenfranchising voters -- we hadn't even voted yet.

She's focused on issues? Really? She focused on issues when her surrogates have been everywhere race baiting and when she lies her @ss off about her record and experience? And when her best argument against Obama is that he's a good speaker that attracks big crowds?

Right.

[Whisp]

24. only way to cut the crap is for her to drop out.

soreloserwoman.

begone, out damn spot. you are Not wanted..

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. "It's my Nature," said the Scorpion.

:web:

[FrenchieCat]

28. Which would be sad.....

I still have a teeny weeny itsy bitsy tiny bit of hope for her to act like an honorable candidate who can win based on her take on the issues and her personality.

[Demeter]

39. All Too True

and there are these wise words from Abraham Lincoln:


"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."


A lesson for the Clintons in the throes of self-destruction.

[juno jones]

66. Ironic that Hillary is a Scorpio

:D

[sandnsea]

30. PA, WV, and KY won't win this for her

She lost. It's over. It's time for our leadership to tell the truth.

[Whisp]

33. I want her to drop out, then the crap will end.

Obama will slay that toad McCain.

[McCamy Taylor]

34. I want Dems to grow up, wake up and smell the RNC interference in our primary.

I have had it up to here with people who can not be bothered to learn the tactics of the opposition. The RNC is following the Pat Buchanan game plan as laid out in a memo he wrote in 1972. Karl Rove's biggest weakness is his lack of creativity and utter predictability. I have been telling you every step of the way what the RNC is doing and predicting their next move, and still people here keep blaming RNC/Rove dirty tricks on Hillary.

Do you want to know why so many Hillary supporters refuse to let her quit? They can not believe that so many self styled Obama supporters are so naive. They think that you are putting them on, and that you are only pretending to believe that the RNC's dirty tricks come from Hillary, in order to score political points. Many of them are older and remember Watergate and CREEP. They are absolutely furious.

I realize that there is simply a lot of inexperience here.

But it is time for people to grow up. We are adults. We need to accept responsibility for this country's future. When we allow the RNC to play its dirty tricks, dividing and conquering us as if we were a bunch of school children, we let down the troops, the people without jobs, the homeless, people without insurance, children many of whom live in poverty.

Hillary and Obama are both honest, honorable, concerned people. The RNC and esp. Karl Rove are the enemy and everything that you are blaming on Hillary is something that the RNC has done and made sure that you would blame on Hillary.

Pat Buchanan dirty trick number one from 1972: "smears against one Democrats attributed to another Democrat". I was 12 during that election. If I could learn from that lesson, the people here can too.

Sorry for the rant, but both Obama and Hillary are acting like grown ups. I wish that we could, too.

:dem:

[FrenchieCat]

38. So how come she's not winning.....if she's so "good" at not being naive?

See, to me, Naive is thinking that you've got the nomination in the bag by Super Tuesday. Now, that's naive.

Naive is voting for a war that you now say you only did that because you trusted Bush. What is that? Naive.

I followed this campaign close enough to understand where the smears eminated from......and it was not dirty tricks initially, although there is some of that going on now. And I would be naive to believe that.

So your claims as to whom is naive are simply not so.

[Demeter]

40. It's all on videotape

So it can't be blamed on dirty tricks. Sorry.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

42. Yes, her own mendacious Machiavellianism is a RNC plot.

:silly:

[merh]

48. I disagree with you.

Hillary has done damage to herself with her lies and has tried to harm Obama with her negative comments that favor McCain. She wants to win at all costs and she doesn't care much what the party thinks.

The RNC want her as the candidate, they have enough dirt and smear against her and Bill to make McCain look as wholesome as Bush looked in 2000, despite all the warnings we shared. And yes, they will use Bill's past and possible present indiscretions to harm her, she made that bed as she clings to him and his presidency to try to bolster her experience and abilities.

She has done the dirty herself, she has used the Rove like tactics and she has sounded shrill and flippant.

The RNC is laughing its collective asses off because they don't have to do much, they just need to sit and wait to see what is left of who we nominate. They hope it will be Hillary because she is so disliked by their base they know that being on the ballot will guarantee a turn out, not for McCain as much as it will be against a Clinton.

I believe Obama is acting like the grown up, he hasn't been perfect, but he has been more level headed and less reactionary. He has tried to keep the campaign about the issues. I haven't seen it in Hillary. Too many times she was given the opportunity to take the high road, to not bash Obama and she failed. From the mockery of hope, from the accusations of plagiarism while she tries out the variety of catchy campaign slogans that are so like what Obama uses, to the tears, to the lies, to the "I wouldn't go to his church", to the snipers that didn't exist, to the McCain and I are more qualified, Hillary has played dirty politics like Rove, but she is not as good at it.

/rant off

[lligrd]

49. Hillary Bought In To The Tactics

and is using them to her own advantage. She only whines and plays the sexist card on the rare occasion she is the target.

[FrenchieCat]

75. That's the saddest part......

:(

[Asgaya Dihi]

64. Oversimplified much?

How did the RNC get Hillary to say, several times, that McCain was more qualified than the other dem in the race? How did they get her multiple times to "misspeak" about sniper fire? Never confused a poem from a little girl for sniper fire myself. How did they get her to say nothing, absolutely nothing, as that whole Wright story was spread around with her supporters doing more than a little of the spreading? Bill and her had the man over to the Whitehouse at least twice and for important events such as his meeting with religious leaders over Monica. They knew who he is and that it was in large part garbage but let a decent man get smeared for political gain. Even her own former church leaders said that was low when she tried to re inflame the issue as it was dieing down by commenting on it.

I do appreciate that she has taken some heat that was unfair but she's taken at least as much that she asked for, and it was her kitchen sink. I don't remember the campaign being like this before that and when you're swinging a kitchen sink you've got no room for complaint when you get hit with one, but complain they do anyway. She should have campaigned like a dem.

All that aside she's both behind and unelectable. General election commercial preview... three or four video clips of Hillary saying you've got to be ready day one, I'm ready on day one, the candidate who is ready on day one... that was her theme for a bit there. Dissolve to pundits, party officials, and so on talking about everything from her overspending badly and early, failure to anticipate the importance of the caucus and small States to her memory lapses over Bosnia, and so on, and she's toast. She wasn't ready on day one, day ten, or today. She misspent her money early and badly, she misjudged her opponent and misplayed the smaller/larger States strategy in much the same way that Giuliani did and is blaming her opponent for the Florida/Michigan mess when the people who actually made and enforced the rules tend to be more on HER campaign. She both misjudged there and is trying to blame someone who is less responsible for it than her people are. She said the most important thing was experience but compared to McCain she's got none, she dug her own hole there too and didn't leave much room for her to discredit that experience. Obama does have that room, no back patting "you're so qualified" clips there, so he can just say "experience at what? Doing the wrong things?". Change will play maybe, but her against McCain on experience and she's toast. She said it too many times and ways to take it back now.

If she's in the race, or if her supporters are urging her to stay in the race, it's not us that needs to grow up but her. Her people are following her lead, not the other way around. She needs to be honest with her people, tell them she simply lost because the other side ran the better campaign and neither the party nor her supporters are served by wasting any more money or deepening this divide. If she's mature enough to do that she can get out with pride and a future, and that would be better for her and the party than if she needs to be taken down. At the convention or before. Go to that and it's bound to get uglier yet and with fewer future possibilities for her.

Late Edit: said Huckabee when I meant Giuliani, corrected

[Life Long Dem]

36. Same here.

This is as accurately as I saw things. It's not like Clinton was eager to talk about the issues during this whole campaign. From the plants in the audience, to the laughing off questions during interviews, she avoided questions.

Then she started in on the mud slinging after falsely accusing Obama of throwing mud (when it was Edwards. From the petty Kindergarten comments to today's dirty politics, she avoided the issues.

She still hasn't released her taxes either - which she has two weeks to do.

And then Hillary supporters were not putting the blame where it belonged. Which is just more dirty politics on their part.

I can't feel sorry for someone who avoids the issues and plays dirty like that till this day.

Oh well... It's almost over.

[mattclearing]

47. I've said several times that she earned the right to stay in with Ohio and Texas.

But I think the way she is staying in it is wrong. She should keep it clean.

[EFerrari]

51. The two are now attached at the hip.

Had she run a cleaner campaign, there would be more support for her staying in.

But she made a choice to go dirty. Choices have consequences.

[cooolandrew]

50. If they have try to win underhand then they don't beleive in tehir candidate which is depressing.

[C_U_L8R]

52. Crap is just her nature

The scorpion and the frog arrive at the bank of a raging river at the same time. As they sit watching the rapid flowing waters, the scorpion turns and says " Froggie, you are a strong swimmer while alas I am not. Please let me jump on your back so I may get to the other side. " The frog laughs and replies " No chance, Mr scorpion, as soon as you can, you will sting me to death. " The scorpion stated " But Froggie, then I also will die so why would I do that? " The frog realizes the scorpion speaks the truth and agrees to carry him across the raging river. Halfway across, the scorpion unleashes his venomous tail and stings the frog. As they are both sinking, the frog cries " Why oh why did you do that? Now we will both die. " The scorpion replies " Sorry Froggie, it's just in my nature.

[AmericanUnity]

53. I'm beginning to dislike her as much as I dislike George Bush - I'm a 40 year Democratic voter

[joshcryer]

54. I'm pretty sure you've been too focused on the media to hear her proposals.

The same ones she gives at every place she stumps. Yaknow, the ones the media are ignoring.

[Tribetime]

55. I agree, but I think she sees into the future

and what would serve her best in 2012. She's still wants to win this year, but what would be her best case scenario if she doesn't. That's the only reason I can see Bill making some of the comments he has about McCain. It's more important to her to be able to make a good run in 2012 if she doesn't win, than to elect Obama if she loses. So I agree with you, I really don't see it happening. Hope I'm wrong.

[DemVet]

56. Wah Wah Wah...there is no such thing as dirty politics.

Learn to play the game or get the hell off the field.

[bklyncowgirl]

58. A spirited debate ON THE ISSUES for the next couple of months would be great for the Democrats

Imagine this, a series of in depth Clinton Obama debates on issues ranging from energy and the environment to health care and foreign policy.

It would be a great advertisment for the party as a whole as well as for both candidates. In my best of all possible worlds, I'd love to see these debates hosted by experts in the field. Imagine Al Gore hosting the debate on the environment and energy or Jimmy Carter hosting the debate on international affairs.

It would be great.

It's also pretty much not going to happen.

[DemVet]

63. No it is not.

As they said on Hardball last night, this is about popularity, not the issues.

[DeeDeeNY]

59. Excellent points

I agree that Obama shines with competition, and I can't wait for him to turn his energies to running against McBush. But the way this is being carried out will hurt the Democratic party. Obama has been trying to stick to the issues, but Hillary has been an embarrassment.

[Major Hogwash]

60. I want her to resign from the Senate . . . yesterday!

When Hillary started the race baiting in January, it became obvious to me that there were not going to be any boundaries for her campaign of lies, slander, slurs, and outright statements of racism.

But, since Hillary voted for the Iraq War, and then told her lie - a completely fabricated, total bullshit lie - about her having to "duck sniper fire" during her trip to Bosnia in 1996, I don't want her in the U.S. Senate anymore.

She is not an effective Senator, and she is not even a good representative of the people of New York State, for that matter.

Lying about being shot at by snipers during a war - we are currently fighting a war in Iraq and Afghanistan - is the height of hypocrisy!

It was the worst lie I have heard come out of a Democrat's mouth in over 35 years!
Hillary owes the men and the women currently serving in uniform an apology.
She owes every single veteran an apology.
And then she owes the entire nation an apology.

Then she should drop out of the race, resign from the Senate, and retire and move back to Arkansas, where Bubba's library is located.

[dailykoff]

67. That's where I'm at.

She hasn't done anything but vote up PNAC attacks while she's been in there anyway.

[npincus]

61. me too... if she ran a decent campaign she should stay on

but I don't think she has it in her to do that... look who she's surrounded herself with.

However, if Hillary is "forced" out, her supporters will be furious, and I wouldn't count on those wounds to heal and those voters to get behind Obama in the GE.

Best case scenario: she doesn't do well enough in Pa or Indiana to bode a superdelegate conversion, she becomes a realist, and avoids going down in flames at the convention- along with our Party.

[Adelante]

62. I agree, Frenchie nt

[FrenchieCat]

76. !

:hi:

Here's a feel good for ya! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntSalB09uzM

I'm dancing in my chair! :)

[Bread and Circus]

65. I can sign on to that. Good post.

[CitizenLeft]

68. I agree. If she'd only go back to the pre-kitchen sink Hillary...

I wouldn't care. It's the ugly tactics that make her staying in so destructive, NOT just her staying in at all.

[dailykoff]

69. It's a huge drain of Obama's time, talent and resources.

not to mention campaign contributions to both campaigns. She's admitted she'd got designs on 2012 and it's been obvious to many that her purpose in persisting is to assure a McCain victory.

There is no excuse for not giving her the bum's rush yesterday and I'm disappointed in the wishy-washy Dem leaders and uncommitted super delegates showing their usual lack of spine.

:mad:

[Mooney]

70. I couldn't have said it better myself.

If she were conducting herself in an adult, professional manner, I wouldn't have nearly as many problems with her as I do.

I don't want her to drop out because I don't want voters to have a voice. I don't want her to drop out because I think she doesn't have the right to remain in the race and see how it plays out. She's just behaving in an unbearably annoying manner that makes it feel like this primary season has been going on for ten years.

[BeyondGeography]

72. If the Clintons would stop sucking up to McCain they could stay in the race as long as they want

because they're going to lose in the end anyway and, yes, campaigning is good for Obama. He'll be in a much better place in the general re. Pennsylvania as a result of this primary, for example. North Carolina and Oregon as well, if it goes that far. Without the pressure and suspense of a race, it's doubtful campaigning on his own would result in the same amount of public attention this far out from the fall.

But Billary should not be allowed to pre-sell McCain as a suitable CIC with moderate positions on many issues. That's just outrageous, and it shows the Clintons for the spiteful little shits that they are at heart. By "not allowed," I mean the Party needs to call both of them on this the next time it happens and/or swing decisively at the SD level to Obama, obvious as it is that the Clintons are just trying to damage the guy who's beating them and perhaps give themselves another chance in 2012.

[futureliveshere]

73. great post, reflects my viewpoint exactly...K&R..n/t

[democrattotheend]

74. Me too. I want them both to stop attacking each other.

I think Clinton has been far worse in this regard for the past few months, but lately it's gotten nasty on both sides and it needs to stop. If they were both campaigning against McCain, we could benefit from this long primary season, but the longer they keep sniping at each other, the weaker the eventual nominee is going to be. Obama has taken the high road for most of the campaign and he hasn't done or said anything particularly objectionable lately, but it just seems like every day both campaigns have an attack memo out against each other, and I think they both need to cool it with that.