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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 11:54 AM
Original message
The PA Primary
I think the primary contest in Pennsylvania is fascinating. No single state is representative of the entire nation, of course, but there are dynamics at play that make the state of special interest in April. Even as a New York State resident, with all that is going on here, I’ve been focused on Pennsylvania, and thought that Senator Bob Casey, Jr.’s endorsement of Barack Obama was important.

My admittedly limited knowledge of PA politics comes from a few sources. First, I have an aunt and uncle who are "typical" Irish-Catholic PA democrats. Both had careers as professors at universities. Both were politically involved: my aunt is a "Kennedy democrat", and my uncle was recognized by President Carter in 1978 for being an outstanding science teacher. They were also neighbors and friends of the Casey family.

I also find the insights of MSNBC’s Chris Matthews interesting. I think his book "Life’s a Campaign" is a valuable tool in understanding not only PA politics, but also some of the friction between him and some neoconservatives that are engaged in efforts to discredit him. In 1974, after working for Ralph Nader, Matthews ran in the democratic primary against Rep. Joshua Eilberg. It was noteworthy, because Matthews ran on a "money-free" campaign, and in the wake of Watergate, he was attempting to confront corruption in politics. Matthews lost, but Eilberg would soon be exposed as one of the more greedy and dishonest crooks in PA politics. (His extended family still goes to great lengths to try to discredit Matthews.)

In the 2004 presidential race, some older DUers may recall me writing about an incident of a break-in at the headquarters of a group campaigning for Senator Kerry. Although there was money in clear sight, the burglars only took the computer hard-drives. I spoke on the phone to the person running the Kerry campaign in the state, and found that it was not an isolated incident.

As a result of these limited influences, I tend to see Pennsylvania as being a state with "old school" democratic extended families, with tensions from generational changes as well as from heirloom grudges and even some corruption. (Luckily, in New York, one rarely encounters these things!)

Senator Casey was from an Irish Catholic family, and his grandfather and great grandfather had been coal miners. His father had the opportunity to go to college, and could have had a career as a professional athlete. But he choose public service. He was the governor from 1987 to 1995.

A few things stand out in his career. One is that he was progressive in promoting an "activist government." He worked to provide medical insurance to uninsured children. He also expanded many health care services for women. Yet he was conservative on the issue of abortion, and is remembered for the Planned Parenthood v Casey case in the US Supreme Court.

Casey was at times on good terms and at times in competition with another PA politician, Ed Rendell. Both men were a blend of liberal and conservative values, something that is necessary to succeed in state-wide politics in Pennsylvania. Each had significant cross-over appeal to republicans in the state.

In 1991, after Senator John Heinz died, Casey replaced him with Harris Wofford. Many DUers remember Wofford served in the Kennedy administration. He was, for those too young to remember, the person who convinced candidate Kennedy to place a call to Martin Luther King, Jr.’s wife, when Martin was incarcerated shortly before the 1960 election. This move convinced enough black Americans to vote for JFK that it made the difference in that very close election.

Casey was concerned that Wofford was "too liberal" for the state, and many did not think Wofford would survive the special election that fall. He was opposed by conservative Dick Thornburgh. However, James Carville helped Wofford pull off the upset victory.

When Casey and Wofford split on the issue of abortion, the division in the democrats allowed Rick Santorum to win the US Senate seat. One person who was considered as then Governor Rendell. He had been the District Attorney in Philadelphia from 1977 to 1986. Although he lost in the democratic primary to Robert Casey Sr., in 1986, he was widely recognized as a possible player in national politics. In fact, in 1980, he had actually been nominated to replace Walter Mondale as VP when President Carter was running for re-election (Rendell got 28 votes). And in 2004, he was among those on Senator Kerry’s "short list" for consideration on his ticket. Governor Rendell has had ties to the Clinton family for many years.

However, NY Senator Chuck Shumer would ask Robert Casey, Jr., to run against Santorum, who had become the 3rd most powerful republican in the Senate. In fact, many thought that Santorum had the potential to run for the White House. (I think most liberal and progressive democrats found Santorum to be one of the most effensive slimes in the republican ranks.)

Bob Casey Jr., had served in PA state government, including as Treasurer. He had also run against Ed Rendell in the 2002 democratic primary. He did well in the conservative rural counties, but lost in the cities. In the 2006 democratic primary for the Senate, he was opposed by two good liberals (an attorney and a professor). Both claimed that Bob was too conservative for the state; however, he won 85% of the primary vote, and then defeated Santorum. In the Senate, he has served on committees dealing with foreign relations, agriculture, banking, and housing.

Governor Rendell has been joined by Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter in endorsing Senator Clinton. Both are good, solid democrats. Rendell would likely be placed in a Clinton administration, were she to be our nominee. Mayor Nutter is the type of progressive democrat who might then become governor, and who has a future in national politics.

Senator Casey has endorsed Senator Obama. Both he and Harris Wofford, who was at Casey’s swearing-in ceremony in January, believe that Barack Obama is uniquely able to provide the leadership our nation requires to recover from the severe damage done by the Bush-Cheney administration. Those who know Bob Casey, Jr., believe that he will also become a national leader in the future.

Who will win the Pennsylvania primary? Senator Clinton is almost certain to. However, the recent shift – Senator Casey’s endorsement – could help to make it a closer-than-expected contest. Hopefully, both campaigns will focus on what is positive, and help convince the American public, which is watching closely, that our party offers our nation the best path into the future.







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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. k&r
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Thank you.
I was surprised at how toxic that even the name "Rick Santorum" remains as I wrote this. Do you happen to have any good "pictures" of the old boy?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Here's a toxic pic:
:D



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scrucon Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
103. Santorum's got a lot wrong with him, but he's not a slime.
That's a word you wanna save for someone like Eliot Spitzer.

That said, I'm glad Santorum's out and Casey is in. I just wish Casey believed in a woman's right to choose.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #103
105. Santorum's one of the slimiest.
:D Welcome to DU! :hi:


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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #105
121. I'm a big fan of your artwork, and
it would look great on a Limpballs spoof site.

Where do you keep your Limpballs artwork??????
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. Rash Limpballs... LOL!
:evilgrin:

Here ya go:

www.swamp-rat.com

thanks! :hi:


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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #124
125. That's great! I am also a big fan and truly appreciate your artsy asides!!
:thumbsup:
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scrucon Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #105
126. What does that make Eliot Spitzer?
Thanks for the welcome, btw. I like it here.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. I have no idea.
:D



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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #103
133. lol actually both Santorum and santorum are slim
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you for this detailed assessment.
I hope Obama will be able to close well and make it close there. Your details on Pa. politics is helpful to us for understanding it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Two of my cousins
(one who is close to Senator Casey, the other to Mayor Nutter), said that the significance of the Casey endorsement should be appreciated by those watching the primary. It is more than a small difference in opinion among the state's democratic leaders.

In early March, some of the network/cable journalists had said Obama would do well in the two large PA cities, and Clinton would be very strong in the rural, middle of the state. Senator Casey's ties are strong in those conservative rural counties; Rendell and Nutter are very strong in the cities. Hence, nothing can be taken for granted.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
102. Oh yeah...........
WOW:woohoo:
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good post.
Though I think it's over the heads of a lot of the "cut and paste" posters here.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. I believe that
you remember times when DU has functioned at a much higher level than it tends to on the GD-P forum in recent weeks. There was diversity in thought, and that was appreciated, even if sometimes the discussions became on-going heated debates. That was very different from the recent cut & paste attacks. A handful of the "old-timers" have been calmly but firmly requesting that we all move back in that direction. I am glad that some of the rational voices, like yours, are speaking up. In the past three days, I've been trying to contribute to the more serious discourse that has previously made DU a valuable discussion forum.
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great background and analysis. Rec'd
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Thank you. n/t
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nice analysis H2O Man
I was born and raised in PA and after years of living all over the US have returned home for my retirement years.

I think Obama may win PA! He just started campaigning here and is off to a good start. The Casey endorsement is important. Obama visited the ET works in Braddock yesterday - it is a steel mill that has been in existence for well over 100 years. My Dad and Grandfather retired from there and I have two uncles who worked there during their lives. It was a good campaign stop. As the daughter of steelworkers, I can say that these hard-working, down to earth people appreciate a genuine, caring person. No one can B.S. a steelworker and get away with it. My Dad and Grandfather would have loved to see this.




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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes, I think it's going to be very interesting.
I grew up northwest of Pittsburgh, and it is much the same environment. Given how long it's been since Pennsylvania was important in a primary race, I think people there will be thrilled that someone is at least paying attention to them for once. Too often in national races you get the Democrats campaigning in Philly and Pittsburgh and nowhere else, and the Republicans campaigning in hooterville and nowhere else, with a lot of the industrial areas in between completely ignored.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
76. "hooterville" made me smile..
I lived in PA for two years in "Kunkletown"
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #76
94. Kunkletown!
I lived there from around 1991 - 1997! We might have been neighbors! I really liked that area, other than Palmerton (zinc mines and such).
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #94
104. could have been!
and we lived in Bushkill for a little while too.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
48. I'm trying not to get my hopes up
PA is such a longshot. Polls have had him closing in for months, but he's still got around 13 points to catch up. His current pace won't get him to victory. But then he did just start campaigning there, and he's got nearly a month to do it. I believe he's closed bigger gaps in shorter times, so who knows really? At any rate, it's looking more and more like PA will not be the blowout victory Hillary needs.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Right.
Senator Clinton needs a huge win, and it is beginning to look like Senator Obama can close the gap. I do not expect him to win, but he can deny her campaign the win it needs. It not only keeps her from catching up in the delegate count, but equally important, it helps keep the contributions from coming in to her campaign.
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I don't think Hillary will blow him out
We have so many colleges in this state.....if Obama can get those votes he has a good chance. My Mom was going to vote for Hillary, but when she saw Obama stop down at E.T. yesterday, she is now going to vote for him! :thumbsup: I think that appearance at the mill is going to give him some mileage in western PA.

I think having the Bus and Franco Harris along isn't hurting either :-).
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. The colleges ....
I think it is interesting that Mr. Matthews has said (at least a half-dozen times) that Obama needs to do a college tour. He says that this will be the best way to reach the undecided voters, as well as some who are re-thinking their previous support for Clinton.

I think that one episode of Hardball this week will be with Obama at a PA college.
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. I wonder if it will be at Penn State
:hi: H2O Man!

I have five nieces/nephews here in PA old enough to vote and they are all voting for Obama :-).
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. On Wednesday
April 2nd, Mr. Matthews will interview Senator Obama at West Chester University. The show plays live at 5-6 pm est, then repeats at 7-8 and 11-12.

The topics will include the war in Iraq, the economy, and related issues. If DUers have suggestions for questions, we can list them on this thread (or we can start another one), and we can get the list to Hardball.

Glad to hear about your nieces and nephews! I've been doing presentations for students in NY in recent weeks. Young folks are really invested in the Obama campaign, and I think that is a hopeful sign for our nation's future.
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Oh, in Philly then
Thanks. I think Obama is in State College tomorrow. I agree, it's great to see this younger generation so involved. It's been lacking for a few decades. Reminds me a lot of my old George McGovern days, but I don't remember this rock star status stuff surrounding him.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #48
78. Some polls have Obama down by only 5 or 8% post the Casey Endorsement
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. That is encouraging.
I don't think that the Clinton camp can take this one for granted. They are going to try to pull out all stops to win. But I think the Obama forces are going to work overtime to try to win.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
97. I think you're right about Obama
I was born and raised and currently live in Northeastern PA and it seems to be leaning Clinton. What I've noticed in particular has been the number of Obama commercials running on WNEP-TV versus Clinton commercials. I've seen an Obama spot nearly every day for the past two weeks but I've only seen two Clinton spots.

WNEP just reported that Obama will be visiting Penn State tomorrow. Clinton will be at Kings College in Wilkes-Barre.

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. As always, I learned something new from an H2OMan post
Recommended.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Last night
I had the opportunity to discuss the PA primary with two of my cousins, who both are politically active. They both think highly of Rendell, Nutter, and Casey. I think that it's interesting that both started out supporting Clinton, but have been impressed by Obama as well. The one who works for Nutter said that although she favors Clinton, she recognizes Obama has a better chance of defeating McCain; the other, who is close to Casey, said she has come to favor Obama in the past month, but still feels Clinton would be a strong president. Both wish that there could be some type of "unity ticket" -- not necessarily with one as VP, but perhaps in some other cabinet position.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. recommended reading
kicked and "recommended". Good background on PA politics.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. Thank you. n/t
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mrJJ Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Texas Caucus Results latter today
The results for Texas County and Senate District Conventions for the caucus delegates can be viewed online as the results come in at BOR. The complete results probably wont be ready till sometime this evening. 67 Texas Delegates at stake. err plus the supers

www.burntorangereport.com/
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. The Wasp (Texas Radio & the Big Beat)
Jim Morrison/ The Doors

I wanna tell you 'bout Texas Radio and the Big Beat
Comes out of the Virginia swamps
Cool and slow with plenty of precision
With a back beat narrow and hard to master

Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance
Others, mean and rueful of the Western dream
I love the friends I have gathered together on this thin raft
We have constructed pyramids in honor of our escaping
This is the land where the Pharaoh died ....

I'll tell you 'bout Texas Radio and the Big Beat
Soft drivin', slow and mad, like some new language

Now, listen to this, and I'll tell you 'bout the Texas
I'll tell you 'bout the Texas Radio
I'll tell you 'bout the hopeless night
Wandering the Western dream
Tell you 'bout the maiden with wrought iron soul



(Note: Looking forward to the news from Texas.)
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
69. bringing back some good 1/2 memories-little hazy with that song.
thanks for sharing the knowledge. prefer this type of posting. i wanna learn and share. tired of the crap. keep it comin h2o man.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #69
79. I think that
there have been some shifts on GD-P in the last week or so, which indicate it can get back on track and serve the purpose that it should.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. I shall watch PA with even greater interest
after reading your post H20 Man.

I had no idea that Chris Matthews worked for Nader at one time?

Thank you, once again.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The Philadelphia Inquirer
March 17, 1974

The Watergate scandal has filtered down to Philadelphia's 4th Congressional District, with one candidate declaring that he will refuse to accept any financial contributions at all. Chris Matthews, a 28-year-old former aide to consumer advocate Ralph Nader, said Friday that he would run a "money-free" campaign for the seat held by Rep. Joshua Eilberg, a Democrat.

Matthews, who filed last week for the May Democratic primary, said he would "neither solicit or accept" financial contributions to his campaign. Instead of television advertising, direct mailings and other traditional campaign tactics, Matthews said he would rely entirely on volunteers to reach voters. Matthews, who was formerly employed as an investigative reporter for Nader's Capitol Hill News Service, blamed "the whole system of private campaign contributions" for political scandals. "If we have learned anything from these disclosures," he said, "it is that the small group of private interests that contribute the bulk of political campaign finances expect something in return."

(Note: His opponent, Rep. Eilberg, did not share Mr. Matthews' belief in a "money-free" campaign. Instead, he was invested in "free-money" politics. Some of his family members still try to smear Chris, even on progressive internet discussion forums.

This clip from the St Patrick's Day edition of the paper shows us a little about the PA world of politics. It also helps explain why Mr. Matthews is excited about the Obama campaign.)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. That's so interesting.
I knew he was a speech writer for Carter and I'd heard he ran for office at one time, but I did not know about the specifics of his campaign.

I hope he'll continue to be enthused about Barack Obama. He'd be an excellent advocate for "us".

:hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Right.
He also as a legislative assistant to Senator Frank Moss, and as an assistant to Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. So Casey decided to come off the fence to endorse so as to counter Rendell?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. It seems that in 2008
we are witnessing a couple of different groups, which havve some overlap, contesting for the leadership positions within the party. On the national level, there is the Clinton machine (which is sometimes called the "new" wing of the democratic party) versus the more liberal, old-school Kennedy wing. In the case of Pennsylvania, there is the Rendell/Nutter wing versus the old-fashioned Casey liberal wing. Depending on which candidate gets the nomination, one of the PA groups is going to be better represented in Washington in the next four years. If Clinton wins, Rendell will be in DC (and Nutter or another team player will replace him); if Obama wins, Casey has the better position.
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PA Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. Great info, H2O Man, from a lifelong PA resident.
PA politics are interesting to say the least. I live in western PA, in a county that is predominantly Democrat by registration, but which voted for Bush in the last 2 presidential elections. Two things which I think have influenced Democrats to vote Republican here are:

1. Richard Mellon Scaife's acquisition of local newspapers. While we subscribe to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette which is fairly middle-of-the- road, most of my neighbor's get Scaife's Tribune Review, which is slanted so far to the right that it is unreadable for me. Scaife now owns EVERY major newspaper in the county.

2. Strong influence of the Catholic Church which locally has put out "voters guides" every election listing candidates' views on only the issues of abortion, stem cell research, school prayer, and school vouchers.

Also, PA has an aging population, and many of our young people are leaving the state due to the lack of good jobs here. We have excellent colleges and universities, but once young people get their degrees, many leave the state.

I was encouraged that Casey did win in my county in 2006, but I think that his stance on abortion probably helped turn the Catholic vote in his favor, because at the same time, Lynn Swann the Republican candidate for governor beat Ed Rendell in my county.

The Clintons have been regularly smeared by Scaife's right-wing rag here over the past decade plus, as has Obama since he declared his candidacy. I am hopeful that people will think for themselves in the general election this fall rather than listening too much to outside influence. I have no idea what will happen in the primaries here.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. One of the points
that you raise/reinforce is very important for others to understand .... and that is while Senator Casey may seem conservative to people from other democratic states, he is representative of a large group of moderate-to-conservative democrats in your state. And these people will cross party lines to make their conservative voices heard on social issues.

Bob Casey Jr., is actually less conservative than his father was. There are people in PA who are more connected to the value system of his father's generation. They have a high rate of voter turn-out. (My cousins agree that one thing they really like about Bob Casey is that he will converse with them on social issues, even if he feels differently than them; his father was a bit more rigid of a thinker.)

There is also a significant degree of "rural resentment" towards the PA cities. There is a belief, handed down through generations more so than from actual facts, that the city populations are a financial burden that damages the economy of those rural counties. That is a population that is likely to have favored Senator Clinton, though they are at least going to listen to Senator Casey -- and hence Senator Obama.

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. Obama's bestest rethug friend Chuck Hagel's company will be counting the votes in PA.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thank you for the history lesson, H20 Man!
I always learn something when you write something. :hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. It's fun for me
to talk to my cousins about PA politics. They said that their friends are all excited about the role they are playing in the democratic primary this year. PA residents know that the national spotlight is on them now, and I get the feeling that they are taking this very seriously.
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4themind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Excellent analysis H2O man, the only thing I'd add is..
the philadelphia subrubs demographic. It's well represented by the affluent and "well educated" and also has a relatively large population of jews as well. Personally I would characterize the region as left leaning moderates, and Chris Matthews was discussed this region extensively, and it will be a key area to watch in both the primaries and the GE in my view. Of course there is also James Carville's famous quote that PA is Pittsburgh, philadelphia and alabama in between
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. I agree with you. The Narberth, Ardmore, Lower Marion,
Bryn Mawr, etc vote is going to be very important. Friends who live there, like those who live in the wealthier enclaves of Center City, tell me it is strongly Obama-land. We shall see.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. There is a well-placed and highly visible Obama headquarters right on Lancaster Ave.
aka "the Main Line".

It's in Wynnewood, I believe.

Just drove by it a half-an-hour ago. The parking lot was full.

:hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. "The parking lot was full."
Oh, I like hearing that!

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Hey, I know about The Main Line..
there's where Grace Kelly hailed from:)
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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #47
114. Actually...
she was born and raised in Philly...East Falls to be precise. Her persona on screen was certainly that of the traditional Main Line gal...personal observers and stories reflect otherwise.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. That is an
interesting quote; Mr. Matthews has mentioned it several times on Hardball. Some reports that I have heard suggested that Obama would do well in both Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. It sounds like it is going to be contested in every neighborhood.

Thanks!
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bcoylepa Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. PA for Barack -red part of the state
I live on the NY border -Bradford County - redder than red historically- although we have our first Dem Congressman Chris Carney in many years only due to scandal)and now have 2 Dem commissioners - we are slowly turning purple - 599 registration changes in today's paper from Repub to Dem - to vote in primary!
Spent this morning canvassing for Obama to registered Dems - almost all Dems said they hadn't made up their mind yet - liked them both! 6 were for Barack - 2 Republicans for Barack. No one was definitely for Hillary although one woman said that she wished Obama had waited.
We even have an Obama staffer helping us in the area - no sign of Hillary's campaign anywhere
just the facts
working for change
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. Wow. That is good to know about your part of the state!
:thumbsup:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Interesting.
And encouraging.
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NEOhiodemocrat Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. Great Post
as a neighbor in Ohio I found it very interesting reading.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
57. Thank you. n/t
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. This is the best kind of stuff DU has to offer.
Thank you!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
58. Thanks!
I appreciate that.
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. A Pennsylvanian's take on the Casey endorsement:
Edited on Sat Mar-29-08 03:10 PM by flowomo
Bob Casey Jr. beat Rick Santorum because people were sick and tired of Santorum. Santorum only won re-election 6 years earlier because the Dems put up a ridiculously poor candidate (Ron Klink) who did not campaign and whose positions were largely in line with Santorum's.

Casey is neither especially popular nor well-known among rank-and file voters. He has kept an extremely low profile in the Senate. He is a dull speaker and will not likely "inspire" anyone with a speech on another candidate's behalf. Yes, he inherited his father's powerful machine, but that is an aging group. Casey Jr. is not the charismatic figure his father was.

In short, I don't think the Casey endorsement will make a big difference. It will help, of course. But not in a big way. I would think that the Rendell/Nutter endorsement will be more influential because of the Philadelphia focus it involves. Again, it won't make a big difference, but slightly more than Casey's.

Very few endorsements mean much of anything, anywhere.

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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. Philadelphia has been recently screwed by Rendell
the biggest issue of course being the slots casinos. There are battles going on right now including court cases against opening the 2 casinos on the riverfront. And the irony is that the neighborhoods where these would be located are peopled with those who would be Clinton-leaning and Rendell supporters. But after the acrimonious process of riverfront development, the support has faded fast. And the fighting has been so fierce that Nutter has been forced to try to intervene.

So I wouldn't count on Rendell/Nutter having much of an effect on the city of Philadelphia. Some pockets in the NE of the city might still go along but it will most certainly be an Obama blowout here. Where I live in the NW of the city (which includes neighborhoods with the 2nd highest per capita income in the city), my Ward officially endorsed Obama and the Ward leader said the committee people's votes were quite lopsided in that direction. My Congressman, Chaka Fattah, has also endorsed Obama (and he is a SD).
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I don't think any of the endorsements will carry much weight,
Edited on Sat Mar-29-08 05:25 PM by flowomo
and I was a big Chakah Fatah fan when he was in the state Legislature and I was covering it as a reporter/editor for a statewide radio network and, later, UPI. The Philly delegation was a crazy bunch overall, but Fatah seemed like a straight-shooter. I see Vince Fumo has finally met his political end.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I think they will to some degree IF that endorser goes on the campaign trail...
For example Patrick Murphy and now Casey. I.e., for those who haven't had time to keep up with politics and are undecided, should they actually take the time to vote, they may in fact listen to their favored endorser. I expect that Rendell and Nutter figure to have some influence now that both have been hitting the Sunday news shows.

Yeah - Fumo got hit with a 3-fer... multiple challengers to his seat, an indictment, and most recently, a heart-attack. That pretty much sealed his fate.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
59. If Casey and Murphy
get people to listen with an open mind, then Obama is in business. They don't need to "convince" the voters to do anything else.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Agree!
:thumbsup:
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
93. Sorry, but Casey would put me to sleep and I was one of those in the
Pittsburgh area that voted for him just to get rid of Santorscum. Casey's endorsement of anybody means nothing to me as well as Ed's endorsing of anybody. Casey can and should be replaced with another dem. I personnally do not like either candidate we have for choosing from for the presidency and I feel the democratic leadership has failed their fellow democratic constituencies when they allowed the media to choose who it is will be our choices. The media picked 2 minority candidates to have a fiasco of fights and the best showing of controversy just for more story worthyness as McCain is boring though dangerous to America like most repukes. Though I am not against a minority candidate I am still not believing they were the best choices and that the majority on DU had consistently gone between Kucinich and Edwards of such a margin that I find it difficult to believe we are that different from other dems across the nation to have allowed these 2 in the ring. Know that Casey is on thin ice, but is there as an alternative to a royal repuke and not because he is so wonderful. Know that those in the mill, ie: ET, are not run of the mill (pun intended) workers in Pa and are very well paid comparitively and guess what, most in there are not minority workers either. The area the mill is in is very depressed and consists mostly of minorities. I guess Obama feels he has the surrounding votes just because he has minority blood and set to work on the mostly white middle class workers in the mill. That doesn't make him qualified any more than HRC because she was married to Bill and got a senate seat because of his popularity.
For me it isn't enough that so and so endorses somebody and me not liking either candidate I will do a write-in vote for somebody else and fear not I have never voted for a republican in my life and never will, but we can do better than these 2.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #93
111. The fact that you have focused on the candidates' phenotype
and immediately applied a label to them to reduce their stature and suggest that they are lesser-qualified (whether they are or not) than your preferred candidate(s) (and I have been a Kucinich supporter myself), rather than note any disagreement that you might have with their issues positions means IMHO, that anything further that you post doesn't warrant further viewing by me.

Ironically, you have neglected to accept the reality that women are not "a minority", men are, and white men alone represent less than 39% of the population, a true "minority" indeed.

NEWS FLASH: This country has been electing a "minority" for President for 2 centuries, but the self-same media and the establishment society as a whole has distorted the perception to make it seem that white men are the only qualified candidates and are are somehow, in some bizarro world, not "minorities", despite the math that indicates otherwise.

To suggest that the acrimony that is occuring between the current Dem candidates is because their race or sex endows them with inherited traits that would magically cause them to fight and screw things up for the entitled white man, but then neglect to point out similar discord between white males - say Carter and Kennedy during the 1980 election or Gary Hart and Dukakis in 1988, indicates the continued scotoma that sadly exists among many posters here. It doesn't mean that I support discord at all because the longer it goes on, the better for the repukes. But to highlight this election cycle as if competition within the Party has never occurred until this slate started running, is disingenuous to say the least.

Ciao!
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #111
132. What I focused on was that the media chose them and not democrats.
For the record, everybody can't be a minority and sorry, but white men were not a minority even if they are maybe today as I have no current stats for today to verify one way or another. Maybe, if you have information and a link to that info that shows I am wrong then be my guest and extend that link to us. My points were that being considered a minority does not entitle anybody to anything more than anybody else and that we did no truly get to choose from the candidates the majority of dems would've prefered. If you had any real brains you'd have figured out that I'm saying that their sex or race shouldn't be the deciding factors in anything, but their qualifications and abilities to properly do the job are. The media wanted them for those qualities to create controversy and good ratings for themselves and our democratic leadership allowed this.

As to this from you, "that anything further that you post doesn't warrant further viewing by me."
What does this really do to me? Do I really care? Is this your idea of holding your breath in a tantrum? Does this make it seem like you are right in your own mind, but can't be reasoned with because you don't want to be possibly proven anything to contradict your own views and you prevent that by putting me on ignore? Ignore away foolish one and I bet your parents had their hands full in trying to raise you, but I'd have given up on you too and sent you on your way to learn things the hard way.
Are you trying to become a new minority by turning blue?
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #93
131. From my post, "to have allowed these 2 in the ring"
Clarification:
The 2 I was referring to were the present 2 that are running for the dem nomination (ie: Barak and Hillary) and not in reference to Edwards or Kucinich.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. Good assessment as usual. Thanks for the history.
NT
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
63. Thanks n/t
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. I live here (now) and I didn't know 90% of that
Thanks!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
64. Thank you n/t
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. I'd also include the Obama endorsement from Patrick Murphy up in Bucks County.
He too is a rising star within the Democratic Party.

He should be able to deliver Bucks county for Obama.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I like him.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
60. Bucks County! That's where I grew up.
Right on the Bux-Mont border in Warminster.

- as
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thanks H20 for that
brief history of PA politics. You're right it is fascinating!

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
65. It is going to
get even more interesting, I think. The people in Pennsylvania know that they are being asked to make an extremely important decision. Also, the people from both campaigns are working hard for their candidates. I'm hoping that the democrats stay focused on the positive. And I'm sure that there are going to be a few more surprises in the next few weeks.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
56. On the ground here in PA
I'm from an area called the Lehigh Valley. It is generally considered not only one of the two swing areas in the state but one of the swing areas of the country. I've been active in the Obama campaign since late February and it has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life.

I've been knocking on doors for the past three weeks. Maybe its because people are polite and say they support your candidate when you knock on their door but I've found more people supporting Senator Obama than Senator Clinton. Today I was in two totally different neighborhoods an upper middle class suburban neighborhood and a lower middle class inner city neighborhood. I can't go into how they were racially divide because to be honest there were black, white, hispanic, and mixxed families in all the neighborhoods. One thing about the Lehigh Valley we are racially integrated. The support for Obama over Hillary was about the same and the people who were supporting Hillary with the exception of a few individuals wanted to know more about Senator Obama. They were receptive of learning more about him and knowing why I had taken my weekend to go knocking on doors in their neighboorhood to help his campaign. One guy had been "waiting for me" and gave me a hug when I came to his door. Its not an official poll but I'm hopeful after my last 3 weeks in my area.

I don't know if we'll carry PA. I just want everyone to know we are working hard out here. I was many of great individuals out in neighboorhoods talking to people about the Senator. No one has ceded anything. We are fighting for this state and doing the best we can.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. That's great you are out there canvassing!
:woohoo:

Good job to you and good luck!
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. This brought a smile to my face.
"One guy had been "waiting for me" and gave me a hug when I came to his door."

I love it!

THAT is what this movement is all about!

Canvassing can be a mixed bag, but one experience like that makes it all worthwhile.

Thanks for sharing.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #56
67. Great.
Thank you for the hard work. It is much appreciated by Obama supporters across the country.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
72. It's so heartening to know this, Jake..thanks from
New Yorkers, here! Who knows how much good will come from Senator Bob Casey's early endorsement, with Franco Harris and Jerome The Bus Bettis, on their bus tour through Pennsylvania?
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Didn't Know You Were A NYer
What do you think of the HC for gov. idea?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #73
81. I think New York
deserves better, me. :(
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. I Was Kind Of Shocked At The Notion
First of all, even though Patterson has gotten off to a rocky start, he should be given a chance. Then, again, it's another kind of a mandate thing. They seem to forget the voters in all these big plans. Also, the idea of putting her in in 2010 to gain experience to run in 2012 would mean she would be running for prez and not governing at all.

The big plus was if she gave up her Senate seat, RFKir would run for it and I would love that.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. Casey was Huge!!
I love him for defeating that evil Santorum. First donation I ever made was a $100 contribution to his campaign against Santorum. His family has so much clout in PA. There is so much love here for him and his great late father. His dad did so many great things for the state when he was govenor.

I'm hoping he gets some Eagles to balance it out. I hope McNabb comes out for him since they are both targets of Rush.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. Dems across the country thank PA for
that win! Doesn't Teresa Heinz Kerry have a few friends in Pittsburgh to get even more people on the O bandwagon?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. We need to get Teresa out there
I was telling my campaign guy that today to tell the campaing to get Teresa out in Pittsburg talking about Obama.

Her foundation has done more for that city than you could imagine and the people of Pittsburg love her.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Good, 'cause I've been thinking
about her for weeks in conjunction with Obama running in PA. Kerry endorsed Obama so I thought Teresa might be of help in PA and then just the other say she endorsed O, herself..

She seems like such a great adovcate for what she believes in.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #74
83. McNabb and Obama did meet back in 2005, so it's possible!
From here: http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/photos/super-bowl-politics/609630/



Would love to see them all in a big rally!
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
75. Fantastic work, Jake! Thanks so much for this and for sharing it here.
I hope you'll keep doing so. I just loved this part, especially: "One guy had been "waiting for me" and gave me a hug when I came to his door." That's so great!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
68. Thank you. Two more points about Casey-v-Santorum: 1. Casey's Primary opponent
was a little-known and unfortunately-named Pennachio; Casey won by name recognition above any ideas, because Chuck Pennacchio was FOR a woman's choice, FOR universal health-care, FOR a time-table to leave Iraq, and AGAINST Alioto for the SCOTUS, all the opposite of Casey's positions.

And 2. Everyone and his brother was more than ready to see the back of Santorum.
"On May 31, 2006, the polling firm Rasmussen Reports declared that Santorum was the "most vulnerable incumbent" among the Senators running for re-election."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2006
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Oh hell yeah
after the Terry Schiavo fiasco, Santorum's ass had to go! :evilgrin:
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #68
99. I voted for Pennachio in the primary for all those reasons.
A ham sandwich could've beaten Santorum in that race. I believe Casey won solely on name recognition and because he was the candidate the "machine" was backing. I very begrudgingly voted for him in the general only because Rick had to go.
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Freedom Train Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #99
108. I did the same thing
Casey's just another mushy-middle, anti-choice, anti-gay marriage DINO whose only quality is that he's not as bad as Santorum. I would have expected his endorsement to go to Hillary actually, and I don't know that Obama is better off with it.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #108
117. I can only speak for myself but
The endorsement means nothing to me. No endorsements do. I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions regardless of any endorsements.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #99
122. You're Right About The Machine
As I remember it, Schumer hand picked Casey over the more progressive candidates, more DLCish. It was the same strategy Emmanuel used over on the house side. They (Schumer & Emmanuel) lost a number of races for that very reason. Fortunately for the number count Casey won.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
71. I Remember The Break-ins In '04
But I don't remember anyone being caught for doing them. Suspicions abounded, but perps were non-existent as memory serves
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. I do not believe
that the person/people responsible for the break-in were caught. I remember that the people at the headquarters felt intimidated. And I remember thinking that the activities that became known as "Watergate" were no so distant as we would like to assume.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
80. Thanks H2O Man
interesting stuff!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Thank you.
This is an intense year.
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
86. Thank you
I understand more about the Penneylvania primary now. I thought your analysis was clear and consise. I also can't tell you how refreshing it is to read a well thought out journal.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. This thread
reminds me of some of the ones from the "good old days" on DU. I suppose there has always been a wide range in the quality of discussions/debates on the forum, but for a while, GD-P has been in a rut. A number of people, such as David Z, have been trying to improve things here. I've posted three OPs in three days, in hopes of focusing attention on some important topics. It seems like some of the Clinton supporters have likewise been posting a few serious threads. Perhaps if we try to engage in civil discussions, and let the attempts to stir the pot sink, things will continue to improve.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #87
100. Having Read All The Posts
I have to say, that, perhaps with 1 or 2 exceptions, I concur. Nice to have a discussion again.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #100
109. There were always
a couple of jackasses, even on the best of the Plame Threads. It is simply a fact of internet life that there will always be some trouble-makers infiltrating a progressive site, as well as some sincere but disturbed individuals. The goal should be to avoid allowing them to dictate the tone of conversations.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. Thank you for your contributions to that end.
This kind of discussion is what I liked best about the old DU.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
90. Thank you for the information!
That's what I love about DU...everyone is always willing to share their knowledge and experiences with everyone.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #90
110. Thank you. n/t
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
92. Great analysis
I lived in PA from 1989 to 1997, and I have good memories of Governor Casey, even though I strongly disagreed with his abortion stance. Fast Eddie Rendell, not so much. He always seemed a little too slippery for me.
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
95. A sane, level headed, sensible post?!!!!!!
H20, this place is not for you sorry.
:sarcasm:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #95
115. Ha!
I hear you. GD-P is kind of strange some days.
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
96. As a foreigner not living in the US
Edited on Sat Mar-29-08 10:10 PM by dbmk
..information and a thread like this is invaluable.

I would have few to none other avenues to get the information needed to put the overall information, that I CAN get, in perspective.

Not that my life would be drastically different if I didn't have it. But this stuff is becoming like crack to me.

My friends here all look funny at me, when I dish out knowledge on the layout of counties , congressional districts/delegates and local stuff that plays into the results - in some, to them at least, rather unimportant state in the US. When all they did was mention the primary race. :)

So, H2Oman, thanks for geekifying me further. :)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #96
116. Thank you. n/t
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
98. Casey is anti-choice....
I don't know if BO would really want this guy's endorsement. He's just another Reagan Democrat...who now votes with the Repugnants.

Yippee...more of the same.

I love one-party rule!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
106. Thank you H2O Man......
Fascinating for me way out in California. It certainly helps!
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
107. Great Post!
Thank you.

mike kohr

Obama 08 -believe-
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #107
112. Harrisburg - York Co and Adams Co
There has been huge population growth in these areas from Marylanders migrating north over the last 4 years... These new PA Residents will likely favor Barack Obama significantly.

The gap in the polls is closing daily as the progressive, positive, honest and strong message Barack Obama presents to the great people of PA...

GO Obama!
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #112
113. Interesting that you bring this up because I have seen evidence of this
from some of my hobby forums... I.e., a steady movement north to places like Cumberland, Lancaster and even Chester County from Maryland. A few even continue to work in MD and do that commute to D.C. metro, which is a bit insane, but.I suspect they did it for cheaper housing/taxes.
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
118. Stupid question.....when is the Pennsylvania Primary?? nt
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JustinL Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. April 22nd
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #120
129. Thanks JustinL!
:hi:
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
119. Thanks!
You always help us to know better, where we stand!

K and R
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
123. Once PA voters see that Clinton has actually exaggerated her experience
and that they get to know Obama more. Obama's vote will increase. Clinton has been more entrenched in PA. Obama has been giving some good policy speeches lately and people are listening.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #123
128. Today's editorial
by Frank Rich in the NY Times ("Hillary's St. Patrick's Day Massacre") may be catching the eye of a good number of the Irish Catholic voters today.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #128
130. The man is Irish!!!!
Obama is Irish
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