I don't understand the racial divide between Hispanics and Blacks

[panader0]

Obama has the black vote sewed up, and Hillary seems to do well with the Hispanics vote. As a white man, I can't understand why Hispanics and Blacks don't seem to like each other. I know that's a generalization, but one that I've seen here at DU a lot, and in the news as well. I can understand Black or Hispanic resentment toward whites, but why toward each other? Perhaps Obama should pick Richardson as VP and end the divide.

[rucky]

1. Competition for limited resources.

just a theory.

[HereSince1628]

5. I'd modify that to perceived competition , but I think that you are on the right track.

Fear is the Mind-killer
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.

Only I will remain

[rucky]

6. I almost did...

but in this case, I think it's real.

The trickle-down economic model is more like dogs waiting for scraps to fall from the dinner table. And it's working as planned.

The perceived element certainly plays in, big-time, though.

[Popol Vuh]

44. That is somewhat correct

Panader0 as a Mexican who inevitably has friends who are short sighted and fall into that ignorant category. Allow me to give my observations on this matter.

Its all about street and prison politics. Both of us (Mexicans and Blacks) have always been victims of a system which marginalizes us, leaving most of us to struggle in poverty. As a result, even though we are the minority, we make up the large majority in prison. Living in poverty, as you know, breeds many problems not seen in upper and middle class areas. Besides breeding, of course, crimes such as robbery, assault and murder. It also breeds gangs to protect each other from assault and robbery. Drugs to escape or ease reality. Gangs to distribute drugs and protect drug turf. Inevitably gangs get into disputes which end up in endless circles of retaliation. This I am sure you're aware of already.

Now of course this means that many of these people who are economically and socially marginalized are going to end up in prison at a much higher rate. It is from within the "prisons" that formed the most pronounced racial divide between Blacks and Mexicans i.e., La M (La imme) a.k.a. The Mexican Mafia, and The Black Gorilla Family. This is probably due to the fact that there is no more such thing as "turf" within prison, so divisions from "the other people" formed along racial lines.

Both these groups, the Mexican Mafia and the Black Gorilla Family, have a long rooted history of fighting over control of drug turf and other criminal enterprises and thus have formed long rooted dislike for each other. THIS IMO is the main bases behind your question.

I would like to make another point: If this country would have never suffered the Black Americans, the Mexicans and any other group as "those people" and inflicting upon us conditions that incarcerates us at such high rates. Blacks and Mexicans probably would have a relationship with each other much more respectful then we see today.

Myself, as I have mentioned, am Mexican and don't prescribe to this none sense and view my Black American brothers as fellow minorities in a constant struggle for social and economic equality. But nonetheless what I point out above is the reality of the situation and is a cause and effect example from mistreatment of both Black Americans and Mexicans.

Thankfully we here in Los Angeles have KPFK where they are making a positive impact with their various shows. My favorite is Divine Forces Radio, where a good example of their programs can be seen by watching the embedded videos on their home page and .


I hope my post was helpful.


Peace....

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. Why don't you ask about Blacks and Jews?

Where you have interaction, you have friction. Whites can live where they please ...

[anonymous171]

10. I think you are right.

Places like VT and WA, where there is little AA population, Obama won handily with whites.

[malik flavors]

3. Trust me, this divide is very exagerrated. Maybe in some areas it exist, but it's not that common.

[FrenchieCat]

14. I agree....and after how Bill Richardson is being treated,

The point is that there has not been the type of Friction between Blacks and Browns that the Hillary Campaign and then the media hyped. They did a diservice to our country by promoting the idea, and it will backfire on them badly at just the right time.

Puerto Ricans, who for whatever reason are said to be for Hillary, will surprise many. These folks are not just Hispanic, but they are also the descendents of slaves.

[Catherina]

23. Modern day slaves

Please see this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=111987&mesg_id=111987

Pro-Obama music is sweeping the Carribean right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntSalB09uzM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tw8tesd5EA

[Mags]

35. I have lived in Central American, the people I have met there

fear any outsider, especially blacks , Asians. They think that the blacks and Asians look down on their light skin as not being good enough , I spent 5 yrs there and I can tell you that I probably didn't see 3 black people there. Asians were plentiful due to the garment industry, but there was much animosity toward them.

[Shakespeare]

36. It's not exaggerated in LA.

There's been a tremendous uptick in black v. brown violence (as it's called here) over the last year. The friction is very real, and, unfortunately, sometimes very violent.

[Selatius]

4. Many Blacks are still poor and are thus forced to compete with immigrants for unskilled jobs.

That's my take on it. I could be wrong though because I'm speculating.

[seabeyond]

7. my black friend was bashing mexicans. couple days later my mexican friend was bashing blacks

i was suprised as shit. what are you doing i ask. i would think that as a black/mexican you would not be racist to each other. and then i would assume they would both go after whites not each other.

since, i have heard others talk about this. i wish the blacks, mexicans and women would get together and kick everyones ass. was more that way around the 60's

[rasputin1952]

8. I can't understand the racial divide in any of it's many and

varied factions.

The first thing people need to do understand that we are all human, after that, things get easier.

No one has to "like" anyone else; but a "dislike" should never be based on skin color/gender/religion/ethnicity...or anything but Character.

I choose who my friends and acquaintances will be, not based on some obscure "bias", but by what they show me they are capable of.

[gateley]

9. I agree with the responses thus far --

We respond strongly when we feel helpless - fear.

I never understood the warring between Irish, Italians, etc., all immigrants, all coming here to get a better life. But when you are scared, it's more empowering to hate the other guy -- makes you feel stronger for some reason. Like we all hate Bushco.

[SoCalDem]

11. One pie..6 pieces..14 people

The "lower value" jobs in America have always been relegated to the poorest people..the least educated.

In America, sadly, for ages that has been the African American community...and as immigrants come here and keep coming here, they arrive poor, and most stay poor, so if they can get jobs, those jobs are often the ones that HAD been going to African Americans just starting out in the jobforce..

It happens because the immigrants can be paid even LESS, and will make fewer "demands", since they are often not citizens..

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why African americans might hold a grudge against hispanic immigrants..and why hispanics might fear reprisals from the group whose "jobs" it is perceived that they have "taken"..

It's to the conservatives' advantage to pit these two groups against each other.. If they ever joined up, conservatives would never win another election

[lligrd]

12. The System Is Set Up This Way

Keep the poor fighting each other so they can't organize against the real problem.

[blogslut]

17. Bingo

Divide and conquer. One of the oldest tricks in the book.

[EFerrari]

13. That's a very interesting suggestion, panader0.

Groups of poor people are always set against each other. It's not so much about ethnic groups as it is about poverty.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. The divide between Americans.

That's what it is. While the divide is certainly rooted in economics, this pandering to demographics is the key to it's persistence. By design. While x is blaming y, z is laughing all the way to economic and political power. Z is the problem. Z is fomenting social, religious and economic discord.

A through y need to wake up and tell z that there's a piece of pie for them but not 90% of pie. It's 294,000,000 to 6,000,000. We are the majority. We are all brothers and sisters. We are who we've been waiting for.

Time for an intervention with z. Time to deprogram z. Time to take our country back.

[stillcool]

16. Years ago I worked in the Hotel biz...

I worked with Cubans, Somalians, and Haitians..nobody liked anybody. Not to mention the Chinese and the Japanese.. I know someone who 'doesn't like Italians'..(never got along with 'them'). Maybe it's a case of everybody needing their own dog to kick, or human beings not really evolving at all.

When you add it all up
The tears and the marrowbone
There's an ounce of gold
And an ounce of pride in each ledger
And the Germans kill the Jews
And the Jews kill the Arabs
And the Arabs kill the hostages
And that is the news
And is it any wonder that the monkey's confused
He said Mama Mama, the President's a fool
Why do I have to keep reading these technical manuals
And the joint chiefs of staff
And the brokers on Wall Street said
Don't make us laugh, you're a smart kid
Time is linear
Memory's a stranger
History is for fools
Man is a tool in the hands
Of the great God Almighty
And they gave him command of a nuclear submarine
Sent him back in search of the Garden of Eden

Roger Waters-"Perfect Sense"

[CitizenLeft]

18. I don't understand it either, and I'm black

Then again, I live in an area with a very low Hispanic population... in fact, I've only known one Hispanic person, my cube-mate 5 years ago, in all my days of living on the east side of Cleveland. And we saw eye-to-eye on almost all things political. I'm aware that there's an Hispanic population in Cleveland itself, but I live far on the other side of town. And Cleveland is one of the most self-segregated large cities in America (however, my neighborhood is mixed white/black 50/50).

From what I understand, there IS tension in that part of town, because it's one of the poorest sections of Cleveland, and blacks and Hispanics are rubbing elbows over turf that no one else wants, for disappearing jobs that barely put food on the table.

If that economic problem was solved, I believe tensions would evaporate... because there are zero inherent cultural or historic reasons for blacks and Hispanics to be in conflict. We are, in fact, natural allies against economic and racial oppression.

[Beacool]

19. OK, now you're talking my demographics.

It's not about blacks against hispanics, that's what some would like you to believe.

I was in charge in my state to get out the hispanic vote in my county (which we delivered by a wide margin on Feb. 5th).

Hispanics, as blacks used to be, are very loyal to the Clintons because they remember fondly the Clinton administration and everything both Clintons have done for civil rights in general (something that plenty others now seem to forget) and hispanics in particular.

Hispanics as a group have respect and fondness for both Clintons. As far as Obama is concerned, what has he done for them at the national level? Why should they switch allegiance from Hillary to Obama?

After the thousands of calls made by the campaign, hundreds made by me personally, this was the main theme: We like Hillary and think that she will be there for us. We trust her with the economy and healthcare. Obama is too inexperienced.

Not once did I personally get a respondent who spoke against Obama on personal terms or mentioned his race, it was all about why they liked and supported Hillary.

[EFerrari]

22. Sure. My hermanitos remember fondly the Clinton's support of NAFTA

and globalization? No lo creo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. tus hermanitos de la clase media y media alta

si recuerdan a los Clinton con mucho cariño.

Los pobres que fuerón al Norte buscándo un futuro mejor no recuerdan ni a los clinton, ni los bushes ni los reagan con cariño. Lo único qué recuerdan es a la migra y el miedo de la migra.

Tu crees que muchos de estas gentes de clase media y alta no quiren ser algo como Carlos Slimm? Slimm es el resultado directo de la globalizacion y el TLC.

Now let me translate, your middle and upper class brothers do remember the Clinton years with love,

The poor that went North seeking a better future do not remember the clintons, the bushes nor the reagans with any love. The only thing they remember is the migra and the fear of the migra.

You believe that many of these middle and upper class people don't want to be like Carlos Slimm? Slimm is the direct result of globalization and NAFTA

[EFerrari]

25. That works until you consider our extended families.

Not all of my extended family is middle class. We're all over the place. We all know someone who has been affected by globalization.

Latino voters, like black urban voters, are misrepresented all the time because their votes seem to go missing much more often -- sort of like student votes and military votes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Why I said who actually misses the Clintons and has benefited from NAFTA

now if you are poor, and most Mexicans ARE poor... and many American Hispanics ARE POOR. then you get quite a different memory

I hate NAFTA... and you know why? It cost my dad the factory he built in Mexico City (and eighty jobs) He managed to retire and live fine thank you, but we are not fans of NAFTA

But many of the people who benefited from it point at Carlos Slimm... even here, in the US

And when that mess finally explodes in Mexico... it will be nasty. and the winds may spread north as well

[EFerrari]

27. It's nasty already.

Our next president will have a hell of a mess on his plate.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. What has Sen. Clinton done for Hispanics "on the national level"?

She wasn't in any elective office until recently. Why is it that Clinton supporters selectively attach her onto former Pres. Bill Clinton's coattails as if she were co-President and creating policy, but not other things like NAFTA that essentially opened the floodgates and now these folks are getting rounded up by the gestapo Bush administration?

It's ironic that you don't see Obama as a walking direct descendant of a foreigner from Kenya. He lived overseas in another country and was born in a state that only became a state 2 years before he was born, and those islands were still peopled by "foreigners" who were automatically given citizenship. Sorry, he doesn't fit the drive-by stereotypes. His whole demeanor is worldly because he really is.

It's obvious Sen. Clinton has no experience to stand on her own and now she has started fabricating much of what she claims she has.

[TML]

30. Interesting take

I remember the Clintons were against Proposition 187, but those were just words. I also remember Bill signing an immigration bill during his second term that denied benefits to LEGAL immigrants. That is a deed, yet Hispanics forget that.

[NorthernSpy]

31. Beacool on blacks: "that's why I'm no longer in their corner."

Because they (blacks) aren't supporting Hillary Clinton in this election:

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I now know that there's no such thing as being color blind, and that not all racists happen to be white.........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5045717#5046455

[Beacool]

45. Your point?

My response was in reaction to someone who said that the Clintons were bigots, which of course I disagree. Besides, bigots come from all races and ethnic groups, whites do not hold exlusive membership in that club.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. I always found it interesting too. When my grandma worked with her family as sharecroppers

they and the African American sharecroppers were taught to distrust each other. Yet they both trusted the white owner who screwed them both. Go figure.

However, I think the divide is played up more than it actually exists. There are black Hispanics.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. In many areas of the country they find themselves in

competition for certain jobs... that in some cases poor whites also compete for.

That said, this racial divide and competition over perceived resources is stoked by leaders who see the two communities at odds with each other

As a "hispanic" I think it is highly counter productive but the power structure benefits from this... after all you've got people at each other's throat instead of working with each other

Oh and it is also cultural. The way both cultures deal with issues is different. and I am generalizing, since Hispanics come from all kinds of subcultures as well as blacks

[fujiyama]

28. Most have noted the competetion for resources

and that is definitely a big part of it. This country's history of slavery and Jim Crow has left African Americans behind on a number of indicators, pitting many African Americans and Latinos in competition for unskilled positions.

In urban areas part of the feeling among many African Americans (and whites for that matter) is that Latinos are "encroaching on their territory". Each wave of immigrants has brought out xenophobic reactions from natives. This is no different. Some may even feel bitterness over a seeming loss of political clout, as the Latino population rapidly grows in population. Also, as it's evidenced even on this board, there is a frustration over the sense that new immigrants are driving wages down. On the other hand, I think there is anti-black racism in Latin-American countries, and those views have been carried over here.

Also, especially in LA, we can see the gang culture take this hatred to an extreme leading to several innocent AAs and Latinos being killed because of their race.

This is a serious rift, and needs to be repaired. The last thing we want is that violence spreading elsewhere.

[joshcryer]

32. You've never lived in a black or hispanic neighborhood.

[dkf]

33. And so?

[joshcryer]

34. Merely explaining why they don't understand.

Here the black people and hispanic people are very internally segregated. Blacks take over at night with their loud music, hispanics in the day, usually mothers and children.

Explaining it any more than that requires demographic and cultural studies. But the divide exists.

[dkf]

39. That is it? Your summary of why they don't get along?

Because Blacks play music at night and Hispanics in the day?

That doesn't explain anything.

Is it perhaps so politically incorrect that you can't explain your true feelings on the issue?

[joshcryer]

40. Absolutely it is. I don't need to be banned and smeared here any more than I already am.

I was saying a divide existed, I was not saying *why* it existed. For that is not something I could hardly ever claim to understand fully.

But I have my feelings.

[GoldieAZ49]

37. I have seen it here in Arizona

very strong with many of the latinos here, never asked why.

In doing some research last week I found that South America had a very large population of blacks (particularly Brazil at 50%) that were descendent's of slaves.

Brazil brought more slaves than any other country, more than several combined. One cannot not even question racism in most South American countries without being considered racist for asking about it.

This may have something to do with.

[joshcryer]

38. I have a very good idea about the cultural mindset.

But because I'm neither black nor hispanic and this is from other hispanics I am dear to, I dare not speak my opinion on these matters.

[cooolandrew]

41. I know the solution if more folks of any other race learned spanish it would make a big healing.

Most of the racial divide in America are mostly communication breakdowns. It is so easy to download spanish audiobooks on line if more made the effort in spanish so much mis understandings would be solved.


SI SE PUEDE

[Raine]

42. "Divide & Conquer"

it's in the best interest of those in control to keep it that way. Keep pitting groups against each other, tell group A it's cause of group B that they're hurting. ALWAYS pit them against each other so they don't join together. NEVER let them come to the realization that's it's those in control that are keeping them ALL down.

[Jennos20]

43. Have you ever thought

that maybe the reason hispanics don't like him is because he is an inexperienced, arrogant, mediocre man with nothing to offer but beautiful rhetoric? As a hispanic that's how I feel.