I would like to beat this horse one last time just to make sure it is dead (MI redo)

[Johnny__Motown]

There was a recent decision declaring the primary in Michigan unconstitutional.


http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/michigan_primary_law_what_the.php




Combine this with the fact that it was against party rules and I don't see any way for the delegation to be seated other than a 50-50 split. That is the same as not seating them since they cancel each other out. All it does is give some party members a reason to get drunk in Denver. (the elevation makes that even easier)



Right now Michigan lawmakers are on a 2 week break. It has been widely accepted that by the time they get back it will be to late to hold a do over primary.


This leaves only the possibility of a caucus to have "Michigan democratic voices heard". Hillary has been advocating a do over in Michigan but only a primary. Well that ship has sailed. She has also been attacking Barrack for not doing more to encourage a new contest in Michigan.

Isn't it now a good time for Sen. Obama's surrogates to voice support for a "do over" in Michigan? Once that discussion has started it can be turned to it being a caucus and the recent ruling against the early primary can be used to bolster the argument.

Hillary would need to "flip" and suddenly be against a do over. This should at least keep her and her surrogates from attacking him for not helping push through a new primary in the state.



Just giving that horse one last slap.....

[DJ13]

1. Isn't it now a good time to voice support for a "do over" in Michigan?

Yes the timing wouldnt hurt (as you said), but I think its better to just stick by the "its up to the DNC" line, as that leaves Clinton twisting in the wind without those delegates or votes.

Besides, bringing it back up now would just fuel further resistance to getting out of the race by Clinton as she would continue to claim those delegates can still add to her count.

[Johnny__Motown]

reasonable points

I did say ... surrogates.... to push the re-vote/caucus idea



And I don't see Hillary leaving before PA votes. Changing part of the dialog now is what I was trying to do.



The primary was against party rules and against the state constitution. If she continues to try and claim them she will be beaten down over and over again. Breaking party rules is one thing, going against a ruling stating that the primary is unconstitutional is another thing.

[SoCalDem]

2. Nope.. He should be under NO "obligation" to do that.

The rules in effect when the whole campaign started :

1. No campaiging in FL or MI
2. The primaries were not to count in ANY way
3. NO delegates would be selected or seated

That was their PUNISHMENT for breaking the rules that 48 otther states & a few territories abided by.

Obama proceeded according to the rules, campaigning and participating in races as they came along.

HIllary had the same ...No a BETTER.. chance to win delegates along the way.. She had more money,HUGE name recognition and she had been running for 7 1/2 years when the campaign started..

Hillary is ON THE RECORD as supporting the elimination of those two states (even though she probably thought, that as the expected winner, she would magnanimously ask for them to be seated, and no one would challenge her at that point)

She messed up big-time by not campaigning in those "small unimportant" states, and she lost 12 in a row.. She HAD to go public and start whining about getting FL and MI seated, since that was her only chance at appearing close..

OBAMA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FLORIDA & MICHIGAN BLATANTLY BREAKING THE RULES..

He played the game under the rules in place..

The people who are to blame are the ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THOSE TWO STATES.. They thought they could break the rules and bully their way into an even higher profile position .

You do NOT reward rule breakers by giving them goodies and even more power..

[Johnny__Motown]

4. I am suggesting it would be beneficial, not that he is obligated

Hillary and Bill are spinning that he is for disenfranchising millions of voters. I am for destroying that argument.

[SoCalDem]

6. the more they whine & spin, the more pathetic they look

They should both just finish up the primaries, let more soooopers line up for each, and either seat FL & MI with 50-50 and NO soooopers ..or keep it the way it is,,


Hillary's only really after the super delegates from those states.. They were mostly in her camp, and the whole moving ahead was probably Bill's idea in the first place to ensure that she had two BIG wins before anyone even realized who Obama was.. She was supposed to finish 2nd to Edwards..and with FL & MI and NH, she would be home free and ahead for Super Tuesday, when she would wind up the whole thing..


She tried to game the system, and lost...

[Johnny__Motown]

9. I agree, but we will be beat over the head with this all through the GE

[IndianaGreen]

3. The DNC cannot even seat Michigan if it wanted to

The federal judge ruling on a lawsuit brought by ACLU and other parties means that the primary was unconstitutional, and all results null and void. As of today, there are no news of an appeal or when a hearing could be held. In any case, it would be months before an appeals court renders a decision.

[Johnny__Motown]

5. which is exactly why I think we should suggest a caucus now... but I am from MI so I am bias

[David Dunham]

7. The Convention, not the DNC, will decide whether to seat MI delegates

The Convention makes the decision in the end whether to seat the MI and FL delegates. The DNC does not have that power. If a majority of the delegates vote to seat MI and/or FL, they will be seated.

[Johnny__Motown]

8. I believe the credential's committee decides on this, but that isn't the point

If the DNC agreed to a new caucus and it was held then the results of that contest would/should be honored.




I am not even saying that a caucus should defiantly be held (not that I would mind).

I am saying Obama surrogates should come out in favor of it to change the discussion that now exists.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Since Obama will have most of the delegates

it is a foregone conclusion that neither FL or MI will be seated, and even if they are, the chances are that their votes will be apportioned in such a way as to not change the outcome of the legitimate primaries and caucuses. Hillary will lose in the end!

[Johnny__Motown]

11. I agree, but will it effect the GE adversely?

[FrenchieCat]

12. Here, just for you! ;)

[Johnny__Motown]

13. hehe thanks frenchie.... that is how I feel about now.. but I worry about the effect on the GE

[FrenchieCat]

14. Don't underestimate Barack Obama!

That was Hillary's mistake if you remember. :)

[Johnny__Motown]

15. I think he is the most capable politician and most inspirational leader of my time.. but...

I would like to see a "landslide" in the GE

I would like to see down ticket dems ride his coattails into office

I would like to see the 50 state strategy begin to get traction

I would like to see a super majority in the Senate by 2012 (if not 2010)

[FrenchieCat]

16. I think that you will.......

Just watch and listen.