Question: How did Obama live on $12,000 a year for 3 years as Chicago Activist?

[KoKo]

Does anyone know how he afforded rent and food? He said he did get a "car allowance" but how could he afford a car making so little money. What kind of car was it? Wouldn't he have qualified for food stamps making so little? How did he supplement that income...did he room with many people so that kept his rent costs down? How did he pay his school loans for Harvard and Columbia, when he made so little money. Were they differed loans? How did all that work for him?

I ask because CNN showed a clip of him speaking in PA today and he talked about his Community Organizing days in Chicago and how he was inspired by Dr. King and the Civil Rights Movement to go to Chicago and spend that time "bringing people together" to get change and it was "hard work" because he only made $12,000 a year with car allowance. He didn't talk about his own personal depravation making so little, and that's what I wondered how he managed to cope with it all. I haven't read his books...maybe it's in there...if anyone can answer. :shrug:

[anonymous171]

1. ummm, what year was this?

[bilgewaterbill]

5. I lived on less than that from'83 - '89. No wife and kids, though.

[KoKo]

76. Were you an Undergraduate at Columbia and a Law Student at Harvard?

That's alot of BIG BUCKS.

[salbi]

143. It was the early 80's and BEFORE he went to Harvard

I'm the same age as Obama, lived in Chicago and i remember living on not much more than that at that time and raising 2 children on it.

[mod mom]

137. I was in grad school back then and lived below that level. You make do with what you have.

[EFerrari]

173. Yep. I did the same and I was a single mom with 2 kids at the time. n/t

[KoKo]

58. It was Obama's speech and he didn't give the years but said that

to his audience at the Rally: "Some of you don't know that I didn't grow up in Chicago...but at many of your age, I came to Chicago after college because I wanted to do activism because I was inspired by Dr. King's Civil Rights Movement and I lived on $12,000 a year with a car allowance." (That's all they gave of the speech.) :shrug:

[BklynChick]

2. i'm about the same age as him and my first job in education i earned about $14K, 1985.

[electron_blue]

78. Yeah, in 1985 I was paid $6300/year. I'll never forget the amt - it was my first job.

[merh]

165. 1982-83, $6500.00 a year

was able to keep my beat up car running, buy food and gas, and if I picked up those return for deposit bottles along the way and cashed them in, could go play centipede and drink beer at a local bar 2 or 3 times a week.

LOL, those were the days ...

[electron_blue]

171. Yeah, I scanned the ground for quarters so I could use the laundromat

instead of hand-washing. But my health insurance was cheap!

[merh]

172. fortunately, those were the days that employers could afford to

pay for health insurance, it was just a given that you provided your employee health insurance.

And don't forget, checking the coin slots of payphones you passed, which were everywhere.

[electron_blue]

192. Yes, I did that, too. This is why I always leave money on the ground now - for whoever is in that

position now.

Now that I think of it, I lived on $12-15K in the early 90's, after which I got a more permanent job with benefits and so forth.

[merh]

201. my first "real jobs" were in the business that required you prove

yourself - I took what pay they wanted to give until I showed 'em what I could do, then the salaries gradually increased - the benefits were provided after a few months, once they figured they liked ya.

I have to remember that about leaving the change, I can't do it with pennies, have to pick them up and put 'em in my shoe

[mac2]

212. Yes...6 months training and being "temporary status" until

they approved of your performance. That was a NY State job. I passed the exam and was ahead of others on the list.

Too bad we can't make our leaders do that. Nope...Senator Liar you didn't make the grade you're otta here.

[Kittycat]

3. If he was taking any classes during this time...

I would think Student Loans contributed. It no secret that he and michelle both had a substantial amount of Student Loans that they only recently (past few years) paid off.

[H2O Man]

4. Correct. n/t

[C_U_L8R]

6. I've lived on less.

It's totally doable... you just manage your life differently.
And no three dollar coffees from Starbucks.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

93. me too!

[Guava Jelly]

7. Maybe he sold crack?

After all most low wage earning African Americans make ends meet by nefarious methods.:sarcasm:

[mac2]

10. He did admit he had a drug and alcohol problem in the past.

Just like Bush.

[FogerRox]

13. Bush got busted for 7 pounds of coke... NOT LIKE BUSH

[anonymous171]

16. 7 pounds!?

:wow:

[FogerRox]

20. Jim Hatfields book IIRC... "Fortunate Son", Micheal Moore touhced on it in his F-9-11 movie

see..... court mandated community service.

[anonymous171]

25. What would a non-rich person get for that, I wonder...

[JVS]

30. Earlier, life in prison as drug smuggler. Now, tossed in Gitmo as Narcoterrorist

[FogerRox]

31. 25 years. Just guessing.

[NOLALady]

88. Firing Squad.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

51. 4 kilos?

Not saying it's not true but I thought he was a customer, not a dealer.





Eta: I know it's 3 and change.

[anonymous171]

53. You don't think "borrow and spend" Bush wouldn't want more than he needed?

It's interesting how one's drug use habits reflect upon one's political decisions. For example, there's "I didn't inhale" Clinton. How do you use pot WITHOUT inhaling? That leads us to the "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." Oral Sex is not sex I guess, just like you can do pot without inhaling.

Nothing against Bill, I love the guy.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. There's people in prison who had a few grams.

That's about 3150 grams.

Mind boggling, if true.

[bunnies]

69. Not possible.

Even George W. Bush wouldnt have gotten out of that.

[Guava Jelly]

15. I would bet my ass both Clintons have at least smoked pot.

...And Obama isn't just like bush..

[anonymous171]

21. At least Obama inhaled.

[Guava Jelly]

26. Smart man

:)

[DemBones DemBones]

177. . . .

:rofl:

That may be the silliest statement I've ever seen at DU.

[gateley]

33. Getting high and imbibing at times is a far cry

from a 'drug and alcohol problem'.

[JayFredMuggs]

54. Where ?

Link please?

[stillcool]

115. I see you did not read his book...

or anything else for that matter.

[Mags]

18. now where did you hear that? provide a link.

[FogerRox]

22. Obama was on Jay Leno

[Mags]

27. he admitted that????????

[FogerRox]

35. Yup.

http://www.google.com/search?q=obama+on+leno&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[Mags]

40. wow!!!!!!!!!

[tammywammy]

36. No, Obama's never said he sold crack

:eyes:

[FogerRox]

122. I was talking about the Bill Clinton didnt inhale line that Obama played

off on, IIRC he said something ....unlike Bill I did inhale..... Though I admit not refreshing my memory by watching the video.

[tammywammy]

126. But Mags replied to GoPsUx where he sarcastically said "maybe he sold crack"

Obama didn't sell crack.

I doubt Mags looked at the links.

[FogerRox]

152. LOL, true.......I doubt Mags looked at the links.

[ourbluenation]

85. Occasional use and experimentation is now "a problem". Who knew!!!!

:rofl:

[roseBudd]

He did not admit to doing drugs & being drunk until 40, teen drug use

like most of us

[FogerRox]

google is your friend

http://www.google.com/search?q=obama+on+leno&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[Guava Jelly]

39. ( notice the sarcasm smilie)

:)

[mac2]

185. Link

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2007/11/21/2007-11-21_barack_obama_tells_nh_kids_of_his_alcoho.html

Google it there are many articles about it.

[SoCalDem]

8. the southside of Chicago was a cheap place to live

and cheap food too.. he probably shared a place with a few guys..and remember.. cute guys always seem to find girlfriends who eagerly cook for them :)

[KoKo]

59. OK...thanks for that...I always think of Chicago as very expensive...in the time Obama was

organizing. Back in the 60's it was difficult for me to live in NYC on $12,000...which is about what I made when I worked in Publishing at that time. So...I was trying to think about how he could have survived with the College Loans...

[SoCalDem]

66. If he took a class or two he might have been able to forestall

the repayment..and y'know the people at the FSL are pretty understanding of hardship..

I only owed a teensy loan (less than 2K) and when our first child was born with serious medical problems I just wrote them a letter and asked them if I could get an extension for the repayment..They wrote me a very nice letter back, sympathizing with me and put off the repayment for 24 months, and said if I needed more time, to write them again..

If he was working for a non-profit, he may have had a delayed repayment plan..:)

[KoKo]

84. We got hit with the "Student Loans" when we got our FIRST JOBS...so

it's a painful memory....they garnished our wages......we had a kid...it was hard..

[jab105]

97. Ummm, south side Chicago is NOT NYC! Southside is cheap cause its a very poor area...

he lived in an apartment, in the late 80s...very doable...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

132. didn't he say he had 2/3 room mates too?

[BeatleBoot]

9. Back in 1984 I couldn't do it.

Had to stay with my pop.

Maybe he had other sources of income?


Only his hair dresser knows.

[FogerRox]

17. Oh god heres another one............

I made 25k last year and didnt stay with my folks, you sound like a slacker to me.

[BeatleBoot]

34. You are a good judge of character

Over the internet.

Reminds me of the Republicans diagnosing Terry Schiavo via videotape on the Sentate floor.

[FogerRox]

37. Good, I'm glad you've seen the error of your ways, LOL>

[BeatleBoot]

42. Yeah, that's it.

Good to know you agree with the pukes on Schiavo

Lol.

[KoKo]

60. But...big difference...you made TWICE Obama's Income and back then things were more expensive

...before we offshored to China and India for everything. :shrug:

[salbi]

148. I lived in Chicago at that time, raised 2 kids on about that much

Between 1983-1987 I lived in Chicago. My husband made about 15,000 a year. I stayed home with the kids. We paid 250.00 a month on rent, drove an old but paid for car and raised 2 small kids. We weren't rich but not starving either.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabasco]

155. I'll say it again. You must not be very resourceful.

Average income in 1984 was $16,000.

Anybody with a head on their shoulders could easily survive on $12k and allowances.

You people are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Bottom feeders.

[FogerRox]

11. IIRC the min wage was $2.65 in 1976, I used to make about $110-$135 per week

$135 a week is like 7k/annum.

I'm a few years older than Obama.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Rezko

He and Rezko were shaking down third-graders for milk money, and selling illegal arms to Canada.

[Adelante]

14. I lived on not much more in the 1980s

People working for non-profits never make big money, although the salary range has increased since then. Actually now that I am retired, I live on that kind of money again. You don't live a high life, but you live on it.

[nsd]

19. I lived on about that much in the mid-90s when I was in grad school.

Probably his student loans were deferred.

[RichardRay]

23. $1,000 a month? Living LARGE, for god's sake!

After my (unceremonious) departure from military service in 1971 I lived for the next several years on $6,000 to $7,000 annually. I had no work income. For most of that time I was actively engaged in political organizing work. It's not hard if one is contributing like that to find people and organizations who make life easier. When you're doing that work nothing you do for yourself costs very much and funds for the work you do for others doesn't come out of your pocket.

One, I believe him without reservation.

Two, I imagine that in some part of his heart he misses that time, I know I do.

[VADem11]

24. It was in the 80's

I think that much money went further back in those days plus he probably lived in a cheap apartment.

And as for the car: "Obama, only 24, struck board members as "awesome" and "extremely impressive," and they quickly hired him, at $13,000 a year, plus $2,000 for a car--a beat-up blue Honda Civic, which Obama drove for the next three years organizing more than twenty congregations to change their neighborhoods."

[Diane R]

28. Lots of Top Ramen.

[KoKo]

62. Yeah...I know...I wish he had talked about what he ate and how he dealed with it but he didn't...

at least in that clip on CNN. I'm wondering if he talked about those "lean years" in his books. So far, I'm not seeing passages from his book quoted about he did it here...but maybe when I "go down thread" more I will find some explanation. Since I didn't read his books, I might have missed his talking about how hard it was for him at that time living on that salary.

[appleannie1]

181. Don't forget Kraft Dinner. In those days .29 cents a box, 2 meals.

[Yael]

29. My rent was about $250 a month back in the late 80s for a 2br townhouse

and I was in college and had a roommate most of the time.

I probably made $10k a year back then.

[melody]

32. Are you joking? That was a reasonable amount of money back then

He's only a couple of years younger than I am. My husband and I made just a little more than that in those years.

[totodeinhere]

38. He must have managed his finances much better than Hillary is now.

Her campaign has a lot of unpaid bills. But I bet that Obama manged on that linted income and did not leave debts. So who is better to manage our country's finances?

[SoFlaJet]

41. you know what the unwritten question is about toto

this Hillbot is insinuating that Obama was a drug dealer-wow they are so smart, they can put these propaganda threads on DU and the democrats there as SOOOOO STOOOOOPID that they won't even notice what I'm doing...I am SOOOOOOOOO smart

[totodeinhere]

50. Yes I know, but tactics like that are backfiring on them.

So let 'em bring it on if they want to.

[SoFlaJet]

52. that's what makes me want to fight them

that they think we're fucking idiots who can't see through their bullshit

[EffieBlack]

43. Read his book! n/t

[myrna minx]

44. During Bush 1's recession, I lived on between $5000-$6000/yr

take home pay. I made just a little over minimum wage and I worked just shy of full time so I didn't qualify for healthcare at my job. This was 1990-1992 not the "eighties". I lived on beans and rice, ramen noodles and tomato soup. I had one roommate and my portion of the rent was $262.50, half of my pay. $12,000 would have been a windfall for me.

[Tatiana]

45. Well, KoKo... has your question been answered? n/t

[KoKo]

61. I'm still reading through the replies....and inputting where I can...n/t

[noel711]

46. In the late '70's... I made five thou a year..

teaching at a little school 1 block from Obamba's
office on Chicago's south side.

I had a nice little apartment, no car,
took the train/bus/subway everything,
and a quiet social life.

It's doable.. and I had no student loans to pay back
(I had full scholarship for undergrade school)..

[KoKo]

64. What kind of Apartment and what kind of rent did you pay?

:shrug: ...That's so little that in my life experience I have to wonder how much your parents or others were helping you out. I was on my own from the time I was 19 years old...way back when...and it's amazing what you say. I'm a very "thrifty person" who has had NO FAMILY HELP so it's amazing what you did. As a female my "personal products" cost me alot. I guess I could have used wash cloths and rinsed them out in the sink and slept on bare mattress and lived on "bargain soup."

:shrug: seems kind of unrealistic to me...I'd love to see your BUDGET because we could all learn alot about how to live on nothing. Please Reply about your BUDGET and HOW you DID IT!

[noel711]

138. I had no real budget....

And no, my parents rarely helped me out in undergrad school,
and besides feeding me a meal occasionally,
they did not financially help me out in my independant life.

My apartment was in the area called Pullman,
the rowhomes that George Pullman built for the workers in
his company town on Chicago's south side, near his traincar
factory. My rent was $350, and I paid my own utilities.
This was originally a working class neighborhood, but because
of the history, there were history buffs, and the educated
young people that today we call yuppies, and most of these
were folks that weren't wealthy... but lefties and liberals,
(read that as many gays, and bohos).

But aside from the rent, utilities, and food, there
were few expenses. I had no car, no insurance,
and few entertainment needs. I had no cable tv,
and few other expenses. Life today has many more
demands on young people.

[democrattotheend]

47. Back then that amount probably went a little further

That's probably equivalent to about $20,000 or more today. But yeah, jobs like that don't pay much. The cost of living in Chicago is lower than it is here in DC, but that's still not a lot of money. A lot of people I know start out with really low-paying entry level jobs like that and it's tough. He probably had a little bit saved up from his job on Wall Street, but it's pretty cool that he gave up a nice cushy job to do organizing, which is thankless and tiring work that does not pay.

[KoKo]

90. We used to have to pay more for "bed sheets" and "staples" before China/India and Nafta took effect.

Used to go down I-95 in those years to visit my Southern Relatives and the Mill Stores selling "Seconds and defective merchandise" were all over SC and GA on the ROAD SOUTH. I kept my household budget going living in the NE by buying the "cheap Irregulars" from the Southern Factories that John Edwards father in his MILL TOWN SOLD OFF AS REJECTS to the Canadians and others "going South on I-95 from the 60's through the 80's on the ROAD TO FLORIDA...:-(

John Edwards knew what it was all about. OBAMA grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia....he doesn't KNOW ABOUT...AMERICA and the movement of the TEXTILE MILLS from New England down SOUTH...and how many folks survived off the "leavings" of the "GREAT TRANSMIGRATION" of TEXTILE from NORTH to SOUTH and then to MEXICO AND THE FAR EAST!

OBAMA DOESN'T KNOW THIS!!!! but...........it's not that he isn't DEALING with the HEAR AND NOW about what's gone on. His "Adivisers" have "clued him into it all." BUT...OBAMA is NOT ONE OF US...like John Edwards was... Even though I understand that OBAMA IS THE FUTURE FOR GLOBALIZED AMERICA....I know that John Edwards UNDERSTOOD...what was THE PAST of AMERICAN GLORY OF INNOVATION...where we PRODUCED FOR OUR OWN!

That's what Edwards was trying to tell us. OBAMA is more for GLOBILIZATION...where (like Bush and Repugs say: "WE ALL SHARE THE WEALTH of AMERICAN DOMININANCE."

What if OBAMA IS WRONG? WHAT IF? :shrug:

[quakerboy]

170. Wow. WTF

Look at the title of your OP, then contrast to your message. He lived with little in Chicago, but obviously he must be clueless about living with little, as he is not one of us.

He is more one of us than anyone else running now. Electing any politician is a gamble. Any one of them could be a wolf in sheep's clothing. But better the chance than just going with a wolf. Thats just stupid.

[NashVegas]

49. I Lived On That Much in Albany NY

In a crappy apartment in a crappy neighborhood with a crappy car and two roommates. When you're just out of college and have no debt (hmmmmm ....) and no family to support, you can.

[KoKo]

65. In Chicago...in his time frame? That's what I was asking... How many roomates?

I lived in NYC in the 60's and it was tough...it was hard... I don't know how he did it in Chicago in the 80's. :shrug:

[NashVegas]

87. It Is a Good Question

Especially if there was college debt. Perhaps a trust fund?

[KoKo]

128. Obama's Mom was on a "Ford Foundation Grant" at about that time...Maybe they helped him out?

It's hard to imagine a single mom trying to pay for Columbia and Harvard and keep her own self afloat with her Anthropology studies and another kid to be able to help out Obama much. And his Grandparents seemed kind of strapped even though his Grandmother moved her way up through the bank in Hawaii it seems his Grandpa wasn't doing much at that time. :shrug: I'm just going by the "Chicago Trib" reports about Obama and his background. As I said, I haven't read either of his two books...so maybe he talks about this all in those books. I was hoping his supporters could give me a synopsis. :shrug:

[tammywammy]

133. It's called loans

Student loans paid his way through college.

[NashVegas]

141. His Mom's Husband #2

Was an oil guy.

Any attempts to portray Ann Dunham as someone without a pot to piss in ...

[salbi]

157. South side of Chicago rent was very reasonable.I lived in Chicago at that time,

People have already answered this for you. He made 1000 a month. Probably paid between 200-250 a month for rent, maybe less for a small apt. Utilities weren't bad then, probably had gas and water paid with rent. Chicago was one of the last cities to get cable, most people did not have it yet in the early to mid 80's, so he probably only had to pay electric and phone if he had one. At that time it was still possible to buy a cheap used car, and filling your car up with gas did not cost half your paycheck.

[Tatiana]

162. My grandmother rented out her So. Side 2 br. basement ("garden apartment") for $250/mo.

1984-87, light/gas included in the rent.

Give me a break.

[Swamp Rat]

55. I've survived on much less for the past decade.

0$ at the moment.

[hedgehog]

56. Why do you think he's so skinny?

[Joe the Revelator]

63. I lived on less then that in 2004-2006 (after college)

He could have made 12000 dollars work in the early 80's, EASY.

[KoKo]

68. And...you are saying you had NO HELP at all?

That's kind of hard to believe. Shouldn't we then expect that $12,000 a year is VERY DOABLE? Why should MY TAX DOLLARS help with Food Stamps and Welfare and Emergency Room Visits if everyone can live Comfortably (as a Single) on $12,000 a year?

DID YOU HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE during that time...Did Obama? What if he'd been in a car accident or been mugged or shot? How would his salary have covered his medical bills? :shrug:

[Joe the Revelator]

83. I did not have medical insurance, I was working campaigns on "pay if we win" contract

Looks like you lived a pretty privileged life, which, by all means,is good for you. But lets not act like people can't live on less, that some people aren't as materialistic as you, and that nobody was making a lot of money in the 80's.Remember the average annual salary back then was 16k.

[myrna minx]

92. ?

Well considering that Obama wasn't in a "car accident, shot or mugged" 25 years ago, what does it matter? Why are you looking for hypotheticals that didn't happen two and a half decades ago?

[CATagious]

116. there's this thing called inflation...

perhaps you could google it.

[KoKo]

75. Did you have Harvard Law School and Columbia Undergraduate Loans breathing down your neck? n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

80. My student loans, like most people's, were differed

Looks like you had college paid for.

[salbi]

159. He went to Harvard AFTER that time peroiod...Read the book

[EmilyAnne]

67. He sold mix tapes featuring the work of Shooby Taylor, the Harmonicats and the Ink Spots.

Technically, it was illegal. But, you know, it was the mid 80s. He couldn't afford all those mountains of cocaine on 12,000 year.

[Ysabel]

70. i supported 2 children on less than $10000 a year thru the entire decade of the 1980s...

- didn't make a whole lot more thru the 1990's either...

[KoKo]

73. What did you pay for "Health Insurance" & "Rent/Mortgage" during that time?

and what part of America did you live in then? Was it Chicago?

[Ysabel]

82. i received afdc part of the decade which incl. health care and food stamps...

rent costs at the start of the decade were approx. $350 per month (i lived part of the decade in calif. and later in wisconsin where i still live) rent went up a bit in the late part of the decade also i no longer received afdc however i was very thrifty...

p.s. we didn't get sick we couldn't afford to get sick...

edit: later on i mean and for the same reason i still don't get sick...

[Catherina]

71. They lived in a tiny cramped apartment like normal people

He supplemented their income by teaching Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago. You know, two jobs like lots of the little people trying to stay afloat.

Keep digging, you might find something that sticks soon enough.

[Mike03]

72. What years are you talking about? Hell, I lived on that amount for a long time.

When I was in college and working during the summers, twelve grand was a lot of money. And I'm talking about the mid-80s.

[AZ Criminal JD]

74. Obama also claimed he was hired right out of law school to teach at the University of Chicago.

This was at the same time he claimed to be a "community organizer."I guess the U of Chicago doesn't pay their law professors much.

[nsd]

95. Obama's talking about the time after college but before law school.

Late 1980's was when he moved to Chicago and worked as an organizer. He didn't enter Harvard Law until 1988.

That a 20-something could live on $12000 in the late 1980s is not at all remarkable.

[AZ Criminal JD]

99. No. Obama has said he rejected a law clerk's job after law school to be a "community organizer."

Normally someone who is editor of the Harvard Law Review will get a top clerk's job such as at the Supreme Court. Obama said he rejected that and "wanted to help the people."

[tammywammy]

102. He did community organizing before going to law school

A

[Adelante]

120. He was offered hundreds of jobs after law school

And he took one with a law firm in Chicago that worked in civil rights.

He was a community organizer BEFORE law school.

[LiberalAndProud]

77. I don't know what rent in Chicago was at the time,

and I'm about 2 years younger than Barrack, but that $1,000/month (and less) is what my household subsisted on in my early marriage. Supported two adults and two, then three kids on that or less for 4 years. Medical bills (no insurance, maternity or otherwise), credit card bills and student loans all got paid. IIRC our rent was $350/month for a 2-bedroom house at the time.

Not comfortable, but we got through it.

[AmericanUnity]

79. JUNKY CAR, DEFERRED STUDENT LOANS, SPAM AND PEANUT BUTTER

[Honeycombe8]

81. Hard, but not impossible, esp. with a car allowance. Maybe some free food, too...

when you do community work, sometimes the events are food events. Like fund raisers and such. He may also have gotten some sort of food allowance enabling him to eat cheaply when he was actively "on duty."

[ecstatic]

86. Why don't you give us YOUR theory, koko...

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

109. Been waiting the whole day for that.

I suspect we may have to keep waiting.

[KoKo]

118. I don't know ...and that's why I posted....I know living on 12K is really hard...and

Obama's after me (in age group)...and Chicago must have been like when I was in NYC before him...and I just want to know about those years...and would feel closer to him if he told how he lived on that salary. I worked in Publishing in NYC...(Harcourt, Brace & World," Textbook Publishers...now gone) but I ate alot of "Dinty Moore Beef Stew and Fish Sticks) and my RENT took all my Salary. I wanted to know what he learned from that. I will tell you that at that time Corporations like Book Publisher "Harcourt" paid for my Health Insurance and when I ended up in "Beth-Israel Hosptial" one night, (poor person/drug addict hostpital) with Gastroenteritis (emergency room patient) that my Insurance through Harcourt (who paid low wages) took care of my two nights in that place with the Drug Addicts screaming through the night ...down the hall and I was a young kid..who was scared shitless with no family alone in the BIG CITY....

So...I'm wondering about Obama's OWN "personal stories."

[Ichingcarpenter]

125. "I'm wondering " yeah, sure you are just wondering.

I made $12,000 a year and supported two kids and a wife on that.
Plus was able to build a house of my own.

He didn't live in the plush areas of Chicago
at that time rent was probable next to nothing. You were fishing for slander
and you didn't find it. Get over it.

[KoKo]

134. Where did you live to support two kids and a wife on that Salary?

There are places in America you might manage to do that these days..but Obama in the 80's with Harvard and Columbia School Debts?

[AmericanUnity]

151. HE WASN'T MARRIED THEN - NOT UNTIL AFTER HARVARD - THIS WAS BEFORE HARVARD

[Ichingcarpenter]

158. This is a bull shit thread

the average tuition and fees in 1983 was $1,100 for a year of college or university.
http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/1983/08/17/04160008.h02.html

The OP said she struggled at $12,000 in the 60s in NY, which was 30% over the national medium income.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/h05.html

I supported my family in 1983 in Texas for $12,000 for two years and owned my own house.
We struggled and got by with no health insurance.

[JayFredMuggs]

194. What wife? what kids?

What comes before kids is getting married. His oldest child is now less than 10. We are talking about 18-20 years ago, when Obama was:
not married and had no kids and had not yet attended Harvard Law School.

Do you have a temporal sequencing problem?
Was logic a difficult subject for you in school?

Also, in 1990, we were paying less than a dollar a gallon for gas, and less than 2 dollars for a gallon of milk.

[salbi]

164. Koko, if you are so interested in his personal stories, why not read his book?

[JayFredMuggs]

195. Great Idea!

Somehow I doubt KoKo wants to read.

[lander]

89. Perhaps instead of asking us, you might try...

...asking Barack and his staff.

He'd be able to answer that question a whole lot more accurately than we ever could, seeing as how he was there and all. Oh, and for your information, I made about $20k/year my first three years out of college (which, thankfully, gave me a full scholarship) -- and that was only about four years ago. I got along just fine, thanks... although working for Starbucks part-time helped me "expense" my coffee fix and provided delicious two-day-old pastries when there wasn't anything to eat in the house.

ETA: That's 20k between two of us, $700/mo in rent, in a major US city.

[roseBudd]

91. He lived in the ghetto? Century old tenement apartments don't go for a lot

I lived in a roach infested HUD subsidized 1 bdrm in a high crime ghetto neighborhood 1 mile from school when I was in college. 54 units, one white girl (me) & one mentally disabled white male was the sum total of whiteness in that building.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

94. I lived on less as a student

[AZ Criminal JD]

96. Obama's resume. Working at U of Chicago right after law school.

http://sunnyplaceshadypeople.wordpress.com/2007/11/22/barack-obamas-resume/ No mention of being a "community organizer." hmmmm. The U of Chicago is one of the top law schools in the country. They pay their teachers a hell of lot more than $12,000. Maybe Obama misspoke.

[tammywammy]

98. Yes, he's obviously lying about being a community organizer

Too bad the media hasn't picked up on it yet. :eyes:

[AZ Criminal JD]

106. The election is not over yet.

Isn't it funny we don't have any people being trotted out by the Obama campaign saying how much they were helped by Obama?

[nsd]

100. As I replied to you above, Obama was working as an organizer BEFORE he went to law school.

This was in the 1980s.

He started teaching at Chicago in the early 1990s, after law school. Not the same time period he's talking about.

[stillcool]

112. maybe this will help?

Chicago Magazine / January 1993 / Vote of Confidence

Vote of Confidence
Chicago Magazine / January 1993 / Vote of Confidence
A huge black turnout in November 1992 altered Chicago's electoral landscape—and raised a new political star: a 31-year-old lawyer named Barack Obama.
By Gretchen Reynolds

A huge black turnout in November 1992 altered Chicago's electoral landscape-and raised a new political star: a 31-year-old lawyer named Barack Obama.

In the final, climactic buildup to November's general election, with George Bush gaining ground on Bill Clinton in Illinois and the once-unstoppable campaign of senatorial candidate Carol Moseley Braun embroiled in allegations about her mother's Medicare liability, one of the most important local stories managed to go virtually unreported: The number of new voter registrations before the election hit an all-time high. And the majority of those new voters were black. More than 150,000 new African-American voters were added to the city's rolls. In fact, for the first time in Chicago's history-including the heyday of Harold Washington-voter registrations in the 19 predominantly black wards outnumbered those in the city's 19 predominantly white ethnic wards, 676,000 to 526,000.
---------------------------------------------
None of this, of course, was accidental. The most effective minority voter registration drive in memory was the result of careful handiwork by Project Vote!, the local chapter of a not-for-profit national organization. "It was the most efficient campaign I have seen in my 20 years in politics," says Sam Burrell, alderman of the West Side's 29th Ward and a veteran of many registration drives.

At the head of this effort was a little-known 31-year-old African-American lawyer, community organizer, and writer: Barack Obama. The son of a black Kenyan political activist and a white American anthropologist, Obama was born in Hawaii, received a degree in political science and English literature from Columbia University, and, in 1990, became the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review. In 1984, after Columbia but before Harvard, Obama moved to Chicago. "I came because of Harold Washington," he says. "I wanted to do community organizing, and I couldn't think of a better city than one as energized and hopeful as Chicago was then." He went to work for a South Side church-affiliated development group and "was heartened by the enthusiasm." But barely three years later, Washington died, and Obama, convinced he needed additional skills, enrolled at Harvard Law School. The African-American community he left, rent by political divisions and without a clear leader, went into a steep decline. By 1991, when Obama, law degree in hand, returned to Chicago to work on a book about race relations-having turned his back on the Supreme Court clerkship that is almost a given for the law review's top editor-black voter registration and turnout in the city were at their lowest points since record keeping began.

Six months after he took the helm of Chicago's Project Vote!, those conditions had been reversed.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-1993/Vote-of-Confidence/

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_year_of_the_organizer
A History of Organizing

As a community organizer for three years in Chicago in the late 1980s, Obama learned the skills of motivating and mobilizing people who had little faith in their ability to make politicians, corporations, and other powerful institutions accountable. Working with churches and neighborhood groups, Obama taught low-income people how to analyze power relations, gain confidence in their own leadership abilities, and work together to improve their housing, schools, and other basic services.

"What if a politician were to see his job as that of an organizer," he asked a local newspaper at the time, "as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them?"

Since embarking on a political career, Obama hasn't forgotten the philosophical and practical lessons that he learned on the streets of Chicago and that are now central to his campaign for the White House.
---------------------------------------
A key tenet of community organizing is developing face to face contact with people so that they forge commitments to work together around shared values. Organizers are not social workers. Their orientation is not to "service" people as if they were clients, but to encourage people to develop their own abilities to mobilize others. They help people turn their "hot" anger into disciplined action. Community organizers also distinguish themselves from traditional political campaign operatives who approach voters as customers through direct mail, telemarketing, and canvassing urging them to support their candidate as if they were selling soap.

This approach is reflected in how Obama's campaign has integrated itself into local communities. In Iowa, for example, campaign organizers, both paid staff and volunteers, were required to help in community recycling projects, tree planting and garbage pick-up -- making themselves available for the day-to-day tasks required to enhance the neighborhoods they were in.

[Adelante]

114. He was a community organizer after Columbia University in the 1980s

He went to law school after working as a community organizer. After Harvard law school, in the 1990s, he joined a civil rights law firm in Chicago. While working at the law firm, he conducted a massive voter registration drive. He also taught at the University of Chicago at night while working at the law firm. After going into politics, he continued lecturing at the law school part time.

[Withywindle]

101. That's about what I made just out of college, in the early 90s.

$5 an hour. No health insurance - I had to trust to luck, if anything had happened I'd have been screwed, but fortunately it didn't. Shared a 2-bedroom apartment with a couple I knew. Student loans deferred (they were never very big - I had scholarships).

Ate a lot of generic store-brand stuff, tuna, ramen, rice and beans. Didn't have a car--still don't, you don't really need one in my part of Chicago. We even had entertainment - used books, bands our friends were in doing free shows.

No, my parents didn't help - they couldn't really, they're lower-middle-class at best too, just like me.

Most of my friends were in the same boat. We got by. It was doable. I don't see why this is so mysterious to you - lots of people still manage on that amount or not much more.

[Ysabel]

103. this thread is yucky n/t...

[Willo]

104. Koko, can you please clarify what you're after...

I know you're saying you don't get how he did it.
You asked if he qualified for food stamps and about other supplemental income.
You ask and received examples of how other people did it.
Even though you said you lived in NY with a family on the same amount.

Are you asking how a single man was able to live in Chicago on the same salary you and your family lived on in New York?

I'll admit, you're food stamp query kind of bothers me but I don't want to misunderstand your intent.

[KoKo]

124. What you say and what I asked in My "OP" which was clear ast to what I asked...

:shrug: I don't know how to make it any clearer. Maybe you could read my "follow up posts" on this thread if you have questions about what I'm asking. :shrug:

[yewberry]

105. I made $8000/yr working for Americorps for the past 2 years.

Food stamps, roommates, general deprivation.

It truly, truly sucks.

[KoKo]

129. But...you are taking food stamps. Do you own a Car? Obama didn't mention taking Food Stamps

but did mention that they all got a "car allowance." That's why I'm wondering how he survived.

It does suck...and he did this for three years...but I wonder if you live in an expensive city like Chicago?

[yewberry]

136. He'd be over the income limit to get food stamps, even by today's standards.

No, I don't own a car. I got a "travel allowance," which was a book of bus tickets.

I did it for two years in Seattle, an expensive city, and I did it within the past couple of years, not decades ago.


edit to add: Just so that everyone knows it, this is a more or less typical stipend for ALL domestic national service workers. We do it to be of service, and it is a sacrifice.

[JI7]

107. many people do this , even today with cost of living higher

[JI7]

108. Obama and his wife were in debt until recently

[DeschutesRiver]

110. Back in the old days

I did it by using the bus system, renting a room in a houseful of people, eating rice with free soy sauce packets when I got too close to payday and was running out of $$, buying everything on sale, working 3 jobs at one point with one providing some kind of minimal healthcare, and at one point I got flush enough from a 4th job to buy a junker car. I would work weekends to get OT at Textronics, I believe it was called, for a year - weekdays in the office part, weekends on the fabrication floor where I caged some wonderful OT wages for punching holes in pieces of metal. Wish they'd had IPODS back then to break the monotony.

I was the first one in my immediate working class family to go to college, and later first in my immediate family and slightly beyond that to go to law school (did have one lawyer relative, remote cousin and cool very strong woman on my dad's side; my mom's family had a few school administrators up in Canada where she was from).

I paid for my schooling myself, so it took 5+ years to graduate. My first couple of years I worked full time days at a starvation wage, and took from 15-18 hours of courses in the evenings. I remember being gob smacked the first couple of semesters when I realized I had forgotten about buying some books and didn't make enough to buy them. So I added a morning newspaper route with the old junker car. Pissed my roommates off to no end when my alarm went off at 3am, and I failed to hear it because I was so damned tired. It can be done, it sucks, but when a girl wants something, there is usually some way to achieve it. You might not like the way, but it can be done. God, I had forgotten about all of that until now.

The last couple of years, I got some grants and student loans, so I could concentrate more on my studies. Paid them off after graduating them as fast as I could.

[myrna minx]

119. I still have nightmares some 15+ years later about juggling school/work.

My dream is that I had forgotten that I had registered for a class and I only remember the class at the time of the final. It's your boiler plate stress dream, but I am very relieved to wake up. Those were stressful, trying times indeed. :hi:

[DeschutesRiver]

123. You know what?

I am 50 now, and STILL have occasional dreams where I get a notice that I didn't finish all of my required college courses, and need to sign up for summer courses to finish my degree. And the dream ends with me worrying about what will happen to my law degree when they find out that I never completed college, lol.

This kind of stuff isn't easily forgotten, but in a way, I am very glad I had this experience vs. just a handout to get through school. It built my character in good ways.

[myrna minx]

130. LOL. I bet we're not alone.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[DeschutesRiver]

146. hi back at ya

:hi:

[KoKo]

131. If Obama did this...I wish he'd talk about it more..........what you say is

what many folks had to do to survive trying to get that education that would help them be "independent."

It's not an experience one forgets or fluffs over lightly.......

[DeschutesRiver]

166. No but

I didn't think of it until this thread, it isn't really something I ever thought about once I was past it. Or would have thought to explain to someone. I might say yeah, I put myself through school, I had some hard times, but not thought that others don't know what I meant by that. I might have assumed that when I say I lived on X per year, that it would make sense that I wasn't living large, and not thought to elaborate more. I wouldn't think anyone thought I was "fluffing" over it or treating it lightly. If anyone had asked, I could give them details out the wazhoo, but some of those things are just plain embarassing, or at least they were at the time. Talking about exactly how you live when you are that broke can be a conversation stopper. I like to focus on where I am headed more than where I have been - unless it can help someone to hear how I did it, and I have talked about it one on one with people that I just know can do it too, if they have encouragement.

And not to romanticize it by any means, but it was a challenge to see how far I could go as a girl on my own. I didn't feel much despair or any bitterness at all when some of my friends turned out to be trust fund babies. Plus, what I was doing and learning fascinated me so much that I didn't notice the lack of other things. Well, not much.

I'd imagine if someone asked Obama to give up some details about it, he would do it.

[zulchzulu]

111. Well you know what black guys do in the hood, right?

He was either a pimp. a shoplifter, a dealer, stole cars, robbed houses or played jazz...yunno... that's what "they" do...

:sarcasm:

[Alexander]

Sounds like the OP won't be satisfied unless it's one of those answers.

[Kber]

113. My mother was offered 11,500 / year to be a labor relations negotiator

for the AFL right after she got her master's degree in 1980. Since she was a single mother supporting two kids, she turned it down and instead took a job working for "the man" at the luxurious salary of 16,500 (plus car expenses, interestingly enough).

We didn't live like kings, but I don't remember great hardship either.

[JPZenger]

117. Huge student loans

Obama and his wife each took out huge student loans, which they needed years to pay off.

[stillcool]

121. frugally?

[anonymous171]

127. Sold crack and had "homo sex" on the side for cash.

That's what you want me to say right?

[ecstatic]

175. And Rev. Wright was his pimp! Series! nt

[anonymous171]

180. Let's work Oprah in somehow!

After all, Oprah is behind all of Obama's success, right?

:sarcasm:

[madfloridian]

135. I find this insulting...some of us raised families on that much.

In the 80s teachers here like me only earned that much and raised families on it.

This is more insulting than some of threads being locked andsaid they are offensive to Hillary.

[Liberal Veteran]

142. I don't know if it is so much offensive as just insensitive and ignorant.

In the 80's and early 90's I made about that much and made it just fine. Oh sure, money was tight, but I wasn't starving.

[Tatiana]

163. I'd go with plain ol' IGNORANT. n/t

[boppers]

139. It's easy for somebody willing to sacrifice.

He described his lifestyle as "monastic". 12K, for a monk, is excessive.

[Mass]

140. For a start, he went to Harvard AFTER this activism job, so no loans to pay for it.

$12,000 was a little bit below the average salary in 84, http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html and he was not married at this point, so, I am sure he was not swimming in gold, but he probably was able to live. And who knows, may be he had some savings from his previous job and he got some scholarships for Columbia?

I do not have an answer written in stone to your question, but I am not sure why it should be important.

[JoFerret]

144. Lots of speculation

...on this thread. But no answers. We may have to wait.

[Liberal Veteran]

147. Nothing really to wait for. His experience isn't all that uncommon.

Some of us struggle all our lives. Some of us do better. Some of us do MUCH better.

[yewberry]

154. What do you mean, no answers?

I lived on $8K a year in this decade. Why is it so hard to imagine that someone lived on more money in a time when life cost less?

[tabasco]

160. Average income in 1984 was $16,000.

You're telling me you can't conceive a single man living on $12,000 plus allowances??

I know the answer to the question. You are just a bunch of cowardly bottom feeders spreading rumors and innuendos.

PATHETIC!

[blogslut]

145. Amway

n/t

[johnnydrama]

149. if car allowance

If car allowance means no car payment, no car insurance, and no gas, than $12,000 goes a lot further than it would without all that being paid for.

[uponit7771]

204. Right, he made out pretty good at that time IMHO

[AZBlue]

150. It's in his books, it's online...why don't you do the research instead of posting this?

Look up the time period he was an activist living on $12K and do the math. It's not like this was just last year.

[ShaneGR]

153. This is such a transparent racebait drug reference....

How could black man live in Chicago on less than 15k a year without selling drugs. How I ask! Such a laim thread.

[bunkerbuster1]

199. It's lame, too.

I'm a bit older than Obama, had my first gig out of college in the early 80s that paid about what he made in the mid 80s. We both lived in relatively expensive metro areas. It could/can be done.

And now, that's about it for me and GD-P for today...

[lumberjack_jeff]

156. From 1980-1982, I lived on $9500/year

But I had a roommate and had no college debt.

Seems plausible.

[SoxFan]

161. Selling blow and pimping out Michelle

But only when the payoffs from Rezko's madrassa ran out

:sarcasm:

[Arugula Latte]

167. Starting salaries for cub reporters in the early 90s were often in the $16,000-$18,000 range

So, $12,000 for a community activist in the 80s doesn't surprise me.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

168. $12,000 a year in 1985 was a fortune...min wage was 3.25 an hr...do the math

[DUyellow]

190. delete

[madrchsod]

169. delete...i am ashamed that i responded

[appleannie1]

174. My parents lived on less in that time frame. They had a clunker too

[OzarkDem]

176. How did he become a millionaire so quickly?

I've always wondered about that as well.

[ecstatic]

178. He's a best selling author?

His wife makes over six figures?

Come out from under the bridge more often! :rofl:

[OzarkDem]

186. Riiight...

[DerekJ]

191. Wait.. Wait...Are you telling me, that you don't believe he could have made 1 Million over 7 years

Without something fishy going on, but you let go of the Clintons making 40 Million in 5 or 6 years as a non issue?!!
He released his tax returns; we know where his money coming from. Time for Hillary to show us how on earth did they make 40 million in 6 years from speeches and books.

[uponit7771]

203. RIGHT!!! Hillary doesn't have to work a day in her life any longer to sustain her current lifestyle

[mainer]

208. His book sold well enough to earn him millions.

I'm in publishing. He would easily have become a millionaire with the number of copies sold.

[mac2]

187. After he announced his run for President she got a big raise....

and book deals. His books all over the place in the Chicago area.

[tammywammy]

179. Wrote a best selling book

[mac2]

188. So did Hillary and Bill...and most politicans. Imagine that!

[tammywammy]

189. And his wife makes a good amount as well

Though Barack wasn't nearly as lucky as Hillary, she got an $8 million book advance.

[mac2]

207. Hillary was First Lady and a Senator

What was Obama's wife to this point?

[tammywammy]

209. If you're that worried about their income

I suggest looking at their tax returns, they've made them readily available.

[mac2]

210. I'm not worried you are

[Ichingcarpenter]

184. He stopped having Hillary do his finances?

She was almost making Math mistakes.

[uponit7771]

202. 850k for best seller, before that wasn't over a million and he and his wife made upper middle class

...salaries in the state senate.

[Alhena]

182. Three words: moonlight professional killer

[Rosemary2205]

183. He's a Muslim, so obviously Osama was supporting him.

Oh brother.........

[surfermaw]

193. Same what he got a reduced price on his home and another lot beside of it.

[JTFrog]

196. Do you ever have a coherent thought? n/t

[myrna minx]

198. Do you have any proof of your assertion, or is this another grenade launch? n/t

[dionysus]

206. thorazine... try it... love it...

[scheming daemons]

197. $12,000 per year in the early 80s was more than twice the minimum wage.....

I started as an engineer in a relatively high-paying field in 1989 for $25,000/year.

In 1983... my position paid around $18,000/year. Today it pays about $90,000/year.


$12,000/year in the early-to-mid 80s is middle-class.

[uponit7771]

200. What impresses me about Obama is that he was once working class until recently, he's never been a...

...multi millionaire

[mac2]

211. He didn't need to be since going to Harvard set him up for a

future most of us will never see. His degree worth a lot. I couldn't get a scholorship even though I graduated the top of my class, etc. to Harvard. I went to night university on my on buck while working full time.

He was being groomed for President by the media and Neo Cons.

One girl was so angry at me because I didn't want to vote for him. I did once and was betrayed. Oh..she said, he's so handsome. He could have worked on Wall Street and made a fortune. I reminded her that on Wall Street you have to perform to make money. It's not just your degree, etc.

It is my vote and he's not getting it. Not that anyone cares.

[dionysus]

205. you're one of the last people i'd expect to see this troll bullshit from....

well he must have been slinging crackrocks eh?

:puke: