Women push back in support of Clinton

[IowaGirl]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080330/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_women_4


EXCERPT:

Amid mounting calls from top Democrats for Clinton to step aside and clear the path for rival Barack Obama, strategists are warning of damage to the party's chances in November if women — who make up the majority of Democratic voters nationwide, but especially the older, white working-class women who've long formed the former first lady's base — sense a mostly male party establishment is unfairly muscling Clinton out of the race.

"Women will indeed be upset if it appears people are trying to push Hillary Clinton out of the way," said Carol Fowler, the South Carolina Democratic Party chair who is backing Obama. "If you are going to ask her to withdraw, you'd better be making a strong case for it — both to the candidate and the public."
snip

[Andy823]

1. I think there is a strong case for it,

If you take time to look at all the facts.

Here is one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5318708

[roguevalley]

63. bullshit. we aren't a monolith and we can see a dork when they

are in front of us. Hand wringing dimwits. Its insulting that they lump us together and assume that because some of us are as old as Hillary and been through the sexist shit that we will support her even when she becomes everything we loathe. Pisses me off.

[SwampG8r]

163. omg

i read the intro line and i thought it was another intern story about bill
roflmao

[Kittycat]

2. This woman won't. She's a stain on Woman's rights in my opinion.

It's all about her whining and lying to get ahead. She's an embarrassment to every woman who actually gave 150% doing their job the right way to get ahead.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lyric]

27. "While acting like men"? WTF?

Newsflash: there is no way to "act like a man" and "act like a woman" unless you believe the idiotic stereotypes about men and women, in which case you need your head examined.

[roguevalley]

69. before you consider calling names more, oktoberrain, lots of

women and men act like stereotypes because the situation calls for it. My fucker of a 'female' supervisor for one believes that to get ahead you have to out man the men. Idiotic stereotype? Sure. Reality for too damned many of us, true. Get your own head examined.

[skater314159]

107. You post is an insult to Transgender and Genderfuck individuals. nt

[mopinko]

127. no insult intended.

just trying to point out that anyone who is looking for a different kind of leadership from the first woman president will be very disappointed if that first is hillary.
my apologies to anyone who takes offense.

[City Lights]

8. Spot on, Kittycat!

:toast:

[apocalypsehow]

14. Exactly right - Hammer, Nail, Head.

:thumbsup:

[L0oniX]

35. Right on.

[Evergreen Emerald]

47. She is an awesome feminist who has fought for civil rights

her whole career.

[K Gardner]

77. Well, except of course for that unfortunate incident in Arkansas in 1975. So, I"d

be a bit careful about intoning "her whole career" in the same sentence with "feminist" and civil rights.

[Evergreen Emerald]

93. Wow. The standard set for women is so much higher than the one for men.

1975. I guess if a woman is not perfect, then she is a failure. It is a shame that women are not held to the same standard as men. And, it is a good thing Obama is a man, otherwise he would never hold up to the standard men (and feminists?) hold to Clinton.

Backwards and in high heels.

[skater314159]

110. What?

Is your word salad supposed to be insulting to Obama?

Backwards and in high heels.

:wtf:

[Evergreen Emerald]

115. No. I mean no insult to Obama.

You misunderstand. Likely you need to take off the hate goggles for a minute so you can see that the "word salad" is actually a group of sentences.

Backwards and in High heels. That is how Ginger Rogers had to dance with Fred Astaire. She had to be better than he was just to be given the same accolades.

Clinton is also held to a higher standard than Obama in...everything. Every sentence she speaks is dissected while Obama is forgiven for his "misspeaks." Every inch of her history is used against her, while Obama skates by with a drug infested past that is ignored. Every picture Clinton took is used as proof of her evil status and justification for your hatred and attacks of her, while Obama's shady companions are forgotten.

Backwards and in high heels: Clinton is held to a higher standard.

[Beacool]

146. Ann Richards revived the quote.

Of course she's held to a higher standard, she's a woman.

:eyes:

[mopinko]

130. i have that poster on ignore, but

i believe that is a quote that ginger rogers 'did everything that fred astaire did, but she did it backwards and in high heels.'

[skater314159]

135. Oh.

And?

I just don't get the "insults" these Clinton supporters throw around here... Just like I don't understand how/why they think passive-agressive behaviour, emotional blackmail and general insults will better their cause.

Na ja... :eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

167. I was responding in kind

but of course the double standard seems to apply to supporters as well.

[skater314159]

108. Amen Kittycat! nt

[anonymous171]

3. That's why Obama said she should stay in "as long as she wants."

Thus negating Clinton's attempt to rally the womyn soldiers.

[splat]

5. Yeah, he had to backtrack like a bunny one that one -- it backfired on him

[VolcanoJen]

21. Backtrack? When did Obama call for Clinton to get out of the race?

Link?

[stevenleser]

45. Now, see, there ya go and throw facts at them again. Why did you have to do that?

:sarcasm:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

126. Looks like her lies went "splat."

[skater314159]

111. "backtrack"?!?!

:wtf:

[democrattotheend]

139. Who says he even knew what Leahy was going to say?

Leahy has endorsed Obama but he does not work for the campaign. I doubt Obama and his campaign knew that Leahy was going to say that in an interview. He was asked about it, he didn't go out of his way to call for it.

[roguevalley]

72. maybe she can take some of those 'womyn' soldiers with her to

bosnia next time.

[splat]

4. Either blacks or women are going to feel rejected by Dems; lousy position for the party

[IowaGirl]

46. You've hit the nail on the head there, Splat!

I think the powers that be who encouraged Obama to take on this race at this time, really screwed up big time.

:banghead:

[roguevalley]

73. you assume that women are monolithic and move as one. what a

sad stereotype that is.

[Syntheto]

91. You nailed the essence right there.

[skater314159]

113. Actually, no...

... it's either the womyn who support Hillary or the blacks along with the majority of voters and caucus goers who will be pissed in August.

I'm thinking it's the womyn and Hillary who need to refresh their anger management techniques over the next few months.

[Turn CO Blue]

165. And don't forget about the youth vote.

The dichotomy that the media is trying to set up is that it's the youth voters + blacks versus more mature white women. But the media do love a bar room brawl.

I really hope that teh voters will unite around the candidate against a common enemy (McCain) once the dust settles a bit.

We can't allow him to be President. He's as scary as Cheney, and we simply can't take 8 more years of these pro-war, anti-middle class policies.

[Turn CO Blue]

166. hiccup

[Skidmore]

6. There is no monolithic "woman" vote.

I'd appreciate it if Ms. Fowler wouldn't paint so broad a strip with that brush of hers.

[splat]

9. She said, 'older, white working-class women ' and she's right; they identify with Hillary

You're the one who changed the premise to "monolithic" and rejected it.

[anonymous171]

11. Or maybe she has scared them into voting for her.

What were Bush's numbers in that category?

[skater314159]

114. They are a "demographic of fear"...

... one of several which have fallen for the Bush fear-mongering and manipulation in the past two Presidential elections.

[splat]

149. They're a demographic of McGovern and Gene McCarthy -- the original antiwar protestors

[skater314159]

161. Some of that generation were, but they aren't voting for Hillary...

...the Hillary voters in that age group are the "fear voters": they are afraid of brown people, they are afraid of "terrists", they are afraid of people who aren't WASPs, they are afraid of Spanish speakers, etc. They are the same people who had fear motivate them to vote for * and the Repukes in'00 and '04.

[MADem]

13. I know she's got all of the seniors I drive to the polls (mostly females)

And they'll go for the geezer vote if she doesn't make it.

[Skidmore]

17. I'm an older white, working class woman who knows a bunch of others

in the same demographic who are not Hillary supporters. There is no monolithic vote for women.

[splat]

22. She didn't say monolitic, you did.

[roguevalley]

82. if you say older women will go to her as a group, you do mean this:

mon·o·lith·ic (mn-lthk)
adj.
1. Constituting a monolith: a monolithic sculpture.
2. Massive, solid, and uniform: the monolithic proportions of Stalinist architecture.

***3. Constituting or acting as a single, often rigid, uniform whole: a monolithic worldwide movement.***

[Raine]

23. I agree

I'm white, 57 and I'm an Obama supporter and so are my friends.

[Liberal Gramma]

44. I'm with ya

Older, white, Democrat since infancy, OBAMA supporter!

[TomBall Democrat]

33. Well, in your opinion

are working class white women allowed to disagree with you?

Cause I freaking can't stand Hillary anymore.

Am I one of the folks who are supposed to identify with her.

So over that.

Please - that's like saying all the "black folks" vote for Obama.

[Catherina]

53. How old? All the White working women I know are for Obama n/t

[IowaGirl]

57. All the white working women I know are for Clinton and plenty of black working women, too.

[Catherina]

62. After election day, we'll break down the demographics

you guys are setting yourselves up for another delicious embarrassing failure.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

143. Both black women in Iowa?

[roguevalley]

76. bullshit. people are going to vote for whom they want and the idea

that women automatically go to her is wrong. monolithic is the correct word for your supposition. older, white working-class women won't vote for her because she's a woman. that is sexist and bullshit.

[cbayer]

55. Another quote from the article:

"Indeed, the gender gap in most of the primaries thus far has been stark.

In California, Clinton bested Obama by a margin of 59 percent to 36 percent among women. She beat him by 54 percent to 45 percent among women in Ohio, an important general election battleground state.

Obama, in turn, has walloped Clinton among men in nearly every state. But he's prevailed among women in just a handful of places, including his home state of Illinois and states with large black populations."

[OzarkDem]

160. You may learn the hard way

that there is. They just needed someone to mobilize them, and Obama and his Dem surrogates have done just that.

[DemGa]

10. It's been interesting watching the BO camp back off this one -- fast

I think they do indeed fear a backlash -- One of the many faces of BO.

[TomBall Democrat]

38. There is no backlash

I saw diversity in both camps at the ocnventions yesterday.

Yet again, this is the media telling us how we're split.

IT'S NOT TRUE.

I had a young African American woman vote for Clinton - and THREE middle aged white women vote for Obama.

STEREOTYPING - It's a Republican thing.

I ain't buying.

[stevenleser]

48. I dont see any evidence of either backing off or a backlash

I still think Hillary should get out. As far as I know, everyone who thought so still thinks so and is still saying it.

[DemGa]

59. You missed BO saying Hillary should "run as long as she wants"?

Sure, it's been BO's surrogates clamoring for Hillary to quit for a while now -- but suddenly BO is singing a different tune. No accidents in politics.

[stevenleser]

67. He (Barack) never said otherwise. If you think he did, provide a link. (n/t)

[roguevalley]

89. which backlash? the one where they 'lose' caucuses or the one where they

'lose' primaries. Please. no one speaks for anyone but themselves. I'm old, white and working class. Don't lump me with that dame. she's embarrassing. she reminds me of lucy ricardo trying to get into show biz.

[UALRBSofL]

12. Great Post, Thanks for posting

!!!!YES WE CAN!!!!YES WE CAN!!!!

[stevenleser]

75. LOL - HRC Looks like Napoleon Bonaparte in that picture.

Hillarious!

[Bitwit1234]

15. If Hillary goes so does the money

Her opponent might have gotten money from young and black voters. But they can't sustain the money flow the way the older and more affluent voters can. Watch it stop if Hillary is muscled out.

[anonymous171]

20. Man, I didn't know WA and VT were both full of young and black people.

[ampad]

25. Really

This is why Hillary is having such a hard time paying her debts and had to loan herself 5 million. Where is that older affluent money now that she really needs it? I guess you cannot be black young and affluent? I can understand the argument of being young and broke with college tuition and all but being black doesn't necessarily make a person non affluent and cash poor.

[NJObamaWoman]

28. bull and you know it. Werent some people saying that obama's has young

black and wealthy whites. That hilary has older, Latinos and beer drinkers/worker. With her money problems obviously hilary's supporters aren't doing the job.

I'm young black and have my masters I haven't even maxed out yet for obama's. If he gets the ticket I have five immediate family members who will each give obama the max. We are just waiting to see what happens before we do this. My family has NEVER campaigned or gave money. People like you is what inspires me to get involve even more. Keep believing that obama's campaign won't rake in the dough. LOL

[ampad]

40. You know the meme changes when convenient

When they want to focus on votes in areas such as PA they talk about the blue collar worker, the beer drinkers when they want to threaten the DNC and other into supporting her they talk about the affluent money Hillary is supposedly pulling in. I'm a young black woman who is still an undergrad. I haven't maxed out yet with my donations to Obama. My family plans on supporting him all the way to the White House and while we are working class we are not dirt poor. I know quite a few young people who only give $20 here and $20 there but the point is they give and they get their friends to give and so on. Obama has the numbers behind him and the people. Like you said, if Hillary has such "affluent" supporters then why is she leaving debt every where she goes?

[TomBall Democrat]

41. Check your facts

He has $35 million left after all liabilities are paid. She can't pay her bills.

And what is with your racist attitude? Poor black folks ain't got no money!

I've sent him loads.

Glad to have a candidate who isn't on the Murdoch payroll.

Why aren't you?

Corporate candidates = Republicans.

I'm a Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Democrat.

[stevenleser]

50. Ouch, obviously you haven't been paying attention to Hill's finances...

you should do a little research on that one and try again. Hillary supporters shouldnt be talking about money and finance right now.

[Faygo Kid]

58. Racist post. I'm white and contribute to Obama. Young and black voters? Guess again.

Just how bizarre and detached from reality do you Hillary supporters get?

Have you not noted that he has done better than your candidate in fundraising? A lot better?

[Liberal Veteran]

96. Ah, come on. Young people and African-Americans have tons of disposable income....

Especially the latter, because of all the advantages of being black in America.

(Yes, I am being facetious)

You are correct that it is a ridiculous notion that young folks paying for college and student loans usually just starting our their careers and being a minority that has been held down in this country for pretty much its entire existence are the people that have tons of money to blow on political candidates.

[anonymous171]

112. LOL! Your first sentence reminded me of Ferraro's comments.

:rofl:

[sniffa]

80. This deserves its own thread. You should start a new thread.

:thumbsup:

[roguevalley]

90. good lord. She goes and the money goes? Who can't pay their

bills? who can't raise money? Please. It is to laugh.

[skater314159]

117. Oh Yaasuh, Ise cannt affourds to donates nuthin, yassah.

:wtf:

What the hell century are you living in?

Young and black people can have jobs and earn money these days.

Welcome to 2008, racist.

[Beacool]

148. Yep, not another penny from me to the DNC

and not another fundraiser either.

[BeyondGeography]

16. As long as she can stiff people and get away with it, Hillary has no reason to leave

[BumRushDaShow]

18. The category "Women" also includes young women and minority women who don't support Clinton.

This "woman" meme is getting tired.

Alot of women would support a woman but not THAT woman. I am such a "woman".

[Raine]

26. Plus

older white women like myself (I'm 57) who support Obama and NOT Hillary.

[HockeyMom]

36. Same here

plus a woman who has lived under Hillary's rule.

[juajen]

125. Perhaps you would like to write more about "Hillary's rule"?

The women who know her have been supporting her for many years. They are very loyal because she is a good woman; so, do tell, we would love to hear about this. Perhaps you could start another thread, so everyone will be paying attention.

[BumRushDaShow]

37. There ya go!

Definitely NOT monolithic! :thumbsup:

[Adelante]

118. And me nt

[NJObamaWoman]

19. wish eveyone will stop catering to white women. Let's also stop pigeon holing all women

as hilary supports. HMO for every white woman supporter who pundits and reporters claim won't vote barack their are even more BLACK people who probably won't support hilary :)

But again they don't want to report that. They just want to report the sacred white women who may not vote as if they represent the entire party. Dems need to becareful because my family and friends are just itching for the dems to screw up so that they declare themsevles as independents and not vote this year. Funny yet sad thing is that I'm hearing this from other blacks and black media as well.

If the white media keeps this up the dems will pay IMHO.

[splat]

24. There are simply far more older Dem women than blacks

[ampad]

29. Well let them come out show themselves

with their votes. Hillary should win PA in a landslide along with Indiana. She should of won Utah and Washington state as well with all those older Dem women. She may have a lock on that vote but not enough to win her this nomination and apparently not enough to get her camp out of the debt mess that it is in.

[roguevalley]

94. in Alaska, the most ardent group for Obama was women in my

caucus. Hardcore worker bees. Ah, but it was a caucus so it doesn't count.

[NJObamaWoman]

31. I haven't seen that.. You can't understand how this election has waken

many blacks up. like I said keep underestimating blacks ;)

[anonymous171]

66. And yet they are less loyal to the party.

[roguevalley]

97. who is less loyal to the party?

[anonymous171]

100. Female voters.

[roguevalley]

92. if that is true, and I don't know, don't tell me that they vote as a block

for their 'own kind'. Some of us want a woman there but not just any old pantsuit. we already had that with Ferraro and look what a hack backasswards hick she is.

[IowaGirl]

121. Please, let me know where they are catering to white women because I seem to have missed THAT party

altogether. Don't worry, if somehow Hillary gets the nomination, the repubs are planning to promote the idea that the nomination was "stolen" from Barack so they can manipulate the AA population for their own nefarious purposes. You'll just play right into their hands. How does it feel to be used and manipulated by a slick character like Obama on one hand and used and manipulated by the Republicans on the other? Wake up and smell the coffee!

[TomBall Democrat]

30. My estrogen won't be rocked if she quits.

After participating in yesterday's Texas conventions, I'm not concerned, though.

She doesn't have a chance.

Also, she's clearly short of cash - not paying her creditors.

Not behavior I admire.

So, thanks, but I don't need my womanhood defended.

She can quit. I'm fine with that.

[Pisces]

32. Not this woman. I am for Obama. Go home Hillary

[Rubiconski2009]

109. Obama should ignore Hillary from now on....

Obama is the certain nominee, and Hillary is just a distraction.

Obviously Hillary doesn’t agree that the primary objective should be to elect a Democrat in November. If her ego won’t allow her to withdraw gracefully, she should at least direct all of her fire at McCain from now on. She could perform a real service for Democrats by going highly negative on McCain, bursting McCain’s “Mr. Straight Talk” balloon and allowing Obama to stay above it all.

But if she keeps directing her fire at Obama while she praises McCain, then she deserves to be a pariah in the Democratic Party for the rest of her life.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

34. Damn right!!

n/t

[Onlooker]

39. Clinton has tremendous support among feminists

At least in Cambridge, MA, a bastion of progressiveness, I think feminists for the most part are supporting Clinton. That said, there are many kinds of progressives, and those who aren't particularly feminist are supporting Obama. In general, though, I do not even think there's much of a consciousness that someone as moderate as Obama or Hillary could evoke the same sort of excitement that true progressives like Martin Luther King evoked.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

88. "those who aren't particularly feminist are supporting Obama"

Like these feminists?

http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/livewire/new_york_city/post_7/

Who the hell are you to judge other women's level of commitment to feminism because they don't support your candidate?

[anonymous171]

99. I hear it's mainly 2nd wave that are her most fervent feminist supporters.

[Onlooker]

104. Oh there are many feminists who support Obama

I'm a man, a feminist, and support Obama, but in Cambridge, as I said, with a lot of feminists, I think there's more support for Hillary and than Barack. So, who the hell am I? I'm simply someone who's honest enough to report what I observe in Cambridge, MA. And I wasn't judging anyone, so don't get so defensive.

[roguevalley]

101. I guess your idea of a feminist and mine are different. A feminist

in my book is someone who takes care of their obligations, their family, their community, pays their bills, does their best and votes. They don't have to have a lot of elaborate ideas about the world. They are fair and just in their treatment of others and they love and serve their country. they don't have to be from vassar, most aren't. My grandpas were feminists and so were my parents. They didn't know it had a name but they knew about responsible behavior and caring for others. They wouldn't take shit from anyone because of gender or color. My mother slapped a man's face in public because of the n-word. My dad used to give black people his seat on the bus in Portland back in the 30's and 40's because they were women or older people and even though he was a small man, he would get into fights over a principle. You would not be able to buy or bribe their values away. They believed in fairness and justice. They were not college graduates, they were working class people with the biggest hearts and the clearest vision of anyone I've ever known.

Neither of them supported Hillary's run because they didn't believe her platform after the war vote. It takes actions to be something. Anyone can spew words about what they are or believe. Hillary can say she is a feminist until hell freezes over but for me, she isn't. Her actions speak louder. Her actions speak of desperation, a sense of entitlement that smacks of privilege and a willingness to forget that people matter in her path to what she feels is her due. Those little businesses depend on bills being paid. It is not a feminist trait to screw others. She is no one I want to know. As for the past, some of us actually lost people inside and out of our families and friends over defending them. Too bad.

[Adelante]

119. Feminist for Obama

Right here.

[skater314159]

122. Cambridge MA is an Academic Bubble...

... time for you to leave your bubble and visit the real world...

[zulchzulu]

42. So they would vote for "pro-life", pro-war McCain?

If they want to sit out the race...fine. There are plenty of new voters that are empowered by Obama (including many older, white working class women) who will vote.

This argument is nonsense.

[cbayer]

43. I can feel it both here at DU and in the real world.

Another interesting quote from the article:

Marie Wilson, president of the White House Project that trains women to run for office, noted that women typically have rallied around Clinton when she's appeared most vulnerable — from the revelations of her husband's dalliance with White House intern Monica Lewinsky to January's New Hampshire primary after the bruising loss to Obama in Iowa.

"Women have always been asked to step aside if it was somehow for the greater good. In this case, Clinton, and a lot of her female supporters, clearly feel that she would make the better president and that it would not be for the greater good for her to step aside," Wilson said.

[bunnies]

49. I am SO sick of women being shoved into Hillarys basket...

that I almost dont want to be a "woman" any more.

Hillary says "woman will vote for me", MSM says "women will be upset", Articles say "women push back"...

AHHHHH! STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

61. Women are often the least supportive of other women - it's true....

n/t

[bunnies]

70. I'm equally as sick of hearing *this* line of BS.

There it is again. Women are this. Women are that.

Why would any woman embrace a broad brush?! I'm an individual. This isnt a frigging sorority.

[roguevalley]

103. I agree bunnies.

[skater314159]

123. True dat. nt

[roguevalley]

102. you'll find women calling bullshit on another woman faster than

men will on other men. we have better intuition and can smell poo faster. that's probably what you are seeing, kerry-is-my-prez.

[Beacool]

150. Why? Isn't that similar to most blacks voting for Obama?

They also do so at a higher rate than women have voted for Hillary. If it's OK for Obama to pull the race card and get up to 91% of their vote, then it's equally OK for Hillary to pull the gender card. Women have been disenfranchised for far longer than any one minority.

[bunnies]

162. Not even close to the same thing.

Obama isnt the one going around saying oh... all these whites are bullying a black. Whereas Hillary is just find with saying that these big boys are bullying a girl. Screw that.

I'm not interested in joining the "women a poor little victims" club. And I've had it with these broad brushes. Hillarys claim that "women" will come out to support her is just as sexist as anything Ive heard in this campaign. This woman will not be taken for granted.

[Liberal Veteran]

51. I actually feel a little bad for women right now.

They FINALLY get a shot at the presidential nomination and it has to be Hillary Clinton. That would be like having our first openly gay candidate with a viable chance being Andrew Sullivan.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoCalDem]

52. Sounds sexist to me

every time she gets criticized, the ladies get their panties in a wad and rush to help their "girl" out..

Bill's "dog whistle" "okay to beat up on girls" and her own "bullying me" pleas..


She's morphed herself into Pauline....and needs constant rescuing from those damned train tracks..

she needs to either stay away from the tracks, or show some of that "grit" she's always bragging about..and quit hollering "Haaaaallllllp me...I'm a poor widdle gurl who's in need of assistance"..

[Catherina]

54. Y'all are so gonna wish you didn't start this because you're setting her up for

another humiliation.

[JoFerret]

98. Y'all should stay in your place

...where you belong. A woman should be barefoot and pregnant. Everyone knows that.

[PetraPooh]

60. "if it appears people are trying to push Hillary Clinton out of the way"

This middle-aged white blue collar woman would NOT see it as anything but the best choice. IF is a pretty big word in that sentence. I don't think it is an IF that would be believed by most women who have taken the time to learn about Hillary. Sexism runs two directions, one is to unfairly judge someone badly because of being a woman, the other is to avoid fairly judging someone who is demonstrably bad because of being a woman. I won't participate in sexism and Hillary is clearly asking for women to participate in the latter form of sexism.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. Club wielding Amazons!!!

After many years suffering under Margaret Thatcher as te UK Prime Minister I wouldn't be rushing into voting for someone just because she is a woman - says this old woman.

[IowaGirl]

71. Okay, so just start name calling women who stand up for themselves.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

81. I used to be an Amazon once

but not for Hillary

[anonymous171]

84. If only she would stay standing and not lay down for the Bush administration.

Face it, she's an unholy combination of 3rd and 2nd wave feminism. I AM STRONG BUT DON'T ATTACK ME BECAUSE I AM A GIRL!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

157. I used to think a female would be a breath of fresh air but no

I was put off by Margaret Thatcher, the warmonger, she was no better than a man.

[roguevalley]

105. tears. that took care of New Hampshire. What's next. A lobotomy

for North Carolina? A lumpectomy for Kentucky? Stand up for yourself. Right.

[skater314159]

132. What?

You really have no clue... :eyes:

[loveangelc]

65. I won't be.

[maximusveritas]

68. Hillary looks intent on destroying the party

She's now no different from the Republicans to me. Just like Lieberman.

[IowaGirl]

74. Obama is the one who set about to destroy the party when he insisted on running for president now...

when more time in the senate would have increased his odds of winning in the future.

[Nedsdag]

85. Are you kidding me?

So he should've sat around in the senate like a John Kerry and have to answer for senate votes?

What has Hillary done to deserve the nomination? I cannot think of any reason why she should be the nominee.

So Obama should've kept his mouth shut and the Democrats would continue the stagnant DLC, "go along, get along" politics that has lost elections in the past? Way to grow the party, princess!

[high density]

87. So you mean Clinton should've been given the nomination by default

Because it was her turn? Who decided that? I fail to see how he has destroyed the party when his campaign is not the one floating glowing McCain endorsements daily. The fact that older women want to vote for an older woman doesn't really surprise me.

Experience or resume length isn't everything in the voter's mind, as Bush Sr v. Clinton, Bush v. Gore, and Bush v. Kerry have proven.

Biden, Dodd, Richardson, Edwards, etc all "insisted" on running for president as well. If you Clinton folks wanted to vote for a long resume, Biden or Richardson were arguably much better there.

[roguevalley]

106. you have lost it, IowaGirl. "Increased his odds of winning"? I was

under the impression he's winning now. What planet are you from?

[Zhade]

78. clinton's loss has nothing to do with sexism. Her lies are a huge part of it.

NT!

[cooolandrew]

79. Some woemn are african american that part always is overlooked. Time to concede it's the honorable..

thing to do.

[IowaGirl]

116. Uh, quite a few black women are supporting Hillary Clinton.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

124. Yeah, like 15% of them.

A think a higher percentage of Republicans actually support her than that.

[emilyg]

83. k/r

[dansolo]

86. So it's back to playing the victim, eh?

Hillary is the poor little woman getting pushed around by all the mean old men.

[JoFerret]

95. There was an amusing book title a few years back:

"The stronger women get the more men like football."

I did not read it.
I don't go in for those simplistic gender wars things much. You know - men on mars eat quiche etc.

But I did think the title was amusing.

[Condem]

120. Um, Iowa Girl

She lost in your state. By alot.

[IowaGirl]

128. Wow, thanks for pointing that out! I didn't know that! Shucks, I guess I'll just go tell ma and pa

out on the back 40. Your point? :crazy: BTW, a lot of those Iowans have been regretting those caucus votes since Wright, Michelle and Reznek. One of the disadvantages of being the state to go first, the crap doesn't usually hit the fan until a while into the campaign.

[Condem]

129. Yup

Even in liberal Iowa City she wasn't viable in alot of precincts. Explain fucking that!

[Condem]

131. Nope

I didn't think you could.

[IowaGirl]

134. Posts with foul language don't deserve response.

:boring:

[Condem]

136. Iowa Girl.

I notice you use a cat as your moniker. My wife and I run a home for wayward cats. Twenty of them. How many you?

[Condem]

140. Nope

I didn't think you had the guts to answer that one either.

[IowaGirl]

142. Just one,

and an elderly dog and a pea brained puppy. They help me de-stress from this stupid political stuff.

[Condem]

144. Iowa Girl

You are allright in my book. Now, switch to Obama. Just kidding. I admire your tenacity. Hang in there.

[GarbagemanLB]

133. Yeah...a lot of people are regretting Obama...guess that's why he is up by 10 in the latest Gallup.

[BalancedGoat]

158. It's gone both ways.

I know plenty of former Clinton supporters who are now fully behind Obama. According to all the Iowa polls I've seen, Obama wins against McCain while Clinton loses.

It's been a couple months since I last ran into a Clinton supporter. In my experience, it's either Obama or McCain.

[democrattotheend]

137. I wrote about this on my blog

I am afraid Leahy's call for Clinton to drop out will end up hurting Obama for that very reason - women tend to rally to her when they sense she is about to go down. That's what I think happened in New Hampshire and that might be part of what happened in Ohio and Texas.

[Life Long Dem]

138. When is Hillary going o quit?

[Mother Of Four]

141. How much more of a convincing case can you get?

I'm incredulous-

Does her head have to vibrate and peel back showing her to be an alien from jupiter or something?


Vile, insulting and sarcastic behavior-
Changes moods and stances like the wind-
Financially irresponsible-
Foreign policy faker-
NAFTA cheerleader with buyers remorse-

I could list more but hey, I think I make my point.

And this is BEFORE Obama's lead is factored in.

[AX10]

145. kick

[Beacool]

147. What is amusing to me is this assumption by Obama and his camp

that if he's the nominee all of Hillary's supporters will vote for him in November like lemmings going over a cliff.

Boy, is he in for a surprise!!!!

:eyes:

[anonymous171]

151. I will be sad if Hillary's supporters won't support Obama in the GE.

But when President McCain appoints judges that overrule Roe v. Wade, I will then proceed to laugh my ass off at the whole lot of you.

[Beacool]

152. It will be sadder to see Obama as a nominee

since I don't think that he's prepared at this point in time to be president. Interestingly enough, I'm not the only one with similar thoughts.

:shrug:

[anonymous171]

153. OK, I can respect that opinion.

I have heard it from many intelligent Hillary supporters. I disagree with that entirely, but I understand where you are coming from. It is up to Obama himself to prove to you and the American people that he is ready, so I will let it be.

[Beacool]

156. Thank you

I honestly wish that I could vote for Obama, but I can't. If Hillary is not anywhere on the ticket, I'm sitting out this election. I've done my due diligence and I don't see Obama ready to handle the job. I would have considered him in the future, but not now, not when the country is in so much trouble.

[dana_b]

155. oh the threats... the big threats.

"Interestingly enough, I'm not the only one with similar thoughts." So true, a lot of Obama supporters say the same thing if Hillary is nominated. it's ridiculous either way. The true threat is four years of McCain!!!!!!!!

[JVS]

154. The one's who aren't stupid fucktards who want president McCain and a pro-life SC will vote for him.

I'm going to be generous and guess that most Clinton supporters will come around.

[EFerrari]

159. Self destructive to the end. What a surprise. n/.t

[workinclasszero]

164. Bullshit. Hillary is a lying, broke, embarrassment to the party

The longer she stays in the more she helps McCain get elected in the GE.

Hillary needs to GTFO now.