Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Hillary’s Hail Mary Pass That Will Never Happen! (3/30/2008)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:10 PM
Original message
Hillary’s Hail Mary Pass That Will Never Happen! (3/30/2008)
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 09:22 PM by KansasVoter
Hillary Clinton wants to be the Doug Flutie of the 2008 Election. Her logic for staying in the “game” is that it is the 4th quarter and she is only down by 4 points and one Hail Mary pass could win this nomination for her. But in this game Hillary is down by way more than one touchdown. The decision to stay in the race is beyond all logic except to say “I cannot possibility lost this nomination”. She has thrown out logic and loyalty at this point. How many Hail Mary passes would it take?

We don’t need to go over the numbers anymore. But let’s have a refresher. Even with 10 point wins in the remaining 12 contests (I am including Florida and Michigan to give her the best chance) Obama still leads by 71 delegates. Even with a 15 point win in the remaining 12 elections she is down by 12 delegates. And let’s face it, she only won Ohio by 9 points and Texas by 5 points. Hillary will not win 12 contests in a row by 15 points. Obama will also win some of the remaining 12 states. Or get a lot closer than 15 points. So everyone, even the biggest Hillary supporters agree, that Obama will have the delegate lead after the final 12 contests.

So what are her options? The remaining options are ones that I think makes Hillary look so desperate that I am surprised she is willing to accept them as viable options.

Option 1, go into Denver with Obama leading the delegate and popular vote race and try to convince the Super Delegates that Obama cannot win the general election. This option borders on insanity. Can you imagine the super delegates at this point, with Hillary behind in delegates and popular votes, voting to make Hillary the nominee? The Obama supporters would riot and maybe burn Denver to the ground. The 2 million donors who have gave about $30 million a month to Obama would flee the party in a really bad mood. There would be groups and web sites formed called “Obama Supporters for McCain”. There is no way Obama supporters would “Get Over” this snub. Face it, Hillary cannot think this is a real option. If this happens the Democratic Party would cease to exist.

Option 2, go into Denver with Obama leading in delegates and Hillary leading with popular votes. This is possible, especially if Hillary some how gets Florida and Michigan included and wins the other states by huge margins. Very unlikely but possible. It still would be impossible for the Super Delegates to override the delegate counts since the party made the rules that counted delegates, not popular votes. And remember, Obama pulled off 12 wins in a row by an average of 20 points. So even with Hillary winning popular votes it does not take away from Obama’s delegates wins. The party would really have an issue with telling millions of motivated Obama voters he lost because the Super Delegates thought Hillary was a better candidate. I think the Obama supporters would leave the convention, and it would not be good press.

Option 3, Hillary heads into Denver and Dean convinces Obama to make her his VP. I don’t think Hillary’s ego will allow this. I also don’t think that Obama wants Bill Clinton running around the White House telling him how to run the government. And does anyone think Bill could keep his mouth shut to the press on decisions that Obama made that Bill or Hillary did not agree with? I think Hillary as VP would not work at all for Obama and would undermine his presidency.

Option 4, Hillary is hoping something major will happen that will cause Obama to drop out of the race. I think this option is really what Hillary is hoping for. This is the only option that can possibility really happen. I doubt there is any issue that could be worse for Obama then the Pastor problem but Hillary is hoping for it. It is a weird option for Hillary to hope for because even if she dropped out, and something major happened that caused Obama to quit, she could still be the nominee. This option seems very unrealistic, but once again, Hillary’s ego is preventing her from admitting defeat.

So at this point I cannot see any way for Hillary to get the nomination and I would love for someone, anyone, to tell me how she can without losing all of the Obama supporters and making them very angry. There is no way he can lose on delegate count and if he has the delegate lead there is no way the Super Delegates can go against him.

It is obvious Hillary is not quitting because her ego cannot possibility admit that Obama beat her. I honestly think Hillary is shocked and cannot admit defeat. It is that simple. She cannot admit that the Clinton political machine is done. It is sad that she would hold out when there is no possibility of her getting the nomination without making millions of new, motivated Obama supporters lose faith in the process and lose millions of donations that Hillary has not been able to match.

The difference between this primary and a sporting event is that Doug Flutie wanted to win without destroying the other team and preventing them from winning their next game. Hillary wants to win at any cost, including destroying Obama so he has to struggle to gain back independent voter support in the general election. No athlete would want to win by stopping the opponent from being able to play the future games. Since this is Hillary’s last chance, she will destroy and do anything to stop Obama. Even if it means Obama will lose the general election.

Hillary is not 4 points down, she is 158 points down. No play in the world can save her. So her only strategy is to stop either team from winning. If she can’t win then she will make sure no one will!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Texas by 2 points"
She lost Texas by 5.

Time to change the narrative.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Fixed. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. You misunderstood. She LOST Texas by 5 points
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 10:13 PM by Yael
Ohio and RI are hers. Texas is Obama Country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. That's what I thought..I kept
going back and rereading the OP. Obama won Texas by "5 points"! YAY!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. Texas is Obama's caucus special, what he does best. Packing rooms full of neophytes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftrightwingnut Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. I had never considered that Clinton as VP would undermine Obama's presidency.
"Option 3, Hillary heads into Denver and Dean convinces Obama to make her his VP. I don’t think Hillary’s ego will allow this. I also don’t think that Obama wants Bill Clinton running around the White House telling him how to run the government. And does anyone think Bill could keep his mouth shut to the press on decisions that Obama made that Bill or Hillary did not agree with? I think Hillary as VP would not work at all for Obama and would undermine his presidency."

You may be right.

Nevertheless, I'm sure there are ways that Obama could isolate the Vice President and cut her out of the loop, if the Clintons resorted to this sort of behavior. And I'm not so sure that Bill would be welcome or present during official business that involved the VP. The mere threat of being cut off would probably be enough to prevent it. Still, they are bound to be influential. It's just a matter of how much influence they are permitted to have.

I'm not sure that Obama will be able to ignore the fact that Clinton has won nearly half the delegates. IMO, I think he is keenly aware of the political reality. He seems to be leaving the door open to this possibility. His recent speeches in PA have been very gracious toward Hillary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I agree.......
I am maybe now just too mad to admit it. If I thought Bill would stay out of the picture i would be fine with Hillary as VP. But I don't 100% trust her anymore. It would be the best solution in the long run!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PM7nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. I don't know about VP, but I think he has to give her something
I think he needs to give her something to get her to leave nicely and gain her supporters. I don't like the idea of her as VP because I think it would drag the ticket down. Best solution would be to appoint her as Secretary of Health and Human Services, but I'm not sure that is enough for her. Another idea would for the Party to kick Harry Reid out and make her Senate Majority Leader. But I still think she should be appointed Ambassador to Bosnia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftrightwingnut Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I don't trust her either. But you know the old adage:
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

With that in mind, the VP slot may be the best place for her. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
26. Good Point (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I would be challenged to vote for that ticket
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great post!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Great Photo!! (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
keep_it_real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. One commentator said, she must beat the baby seal (Obama) to death
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 09:54 PM by keep_it_real
Meaning she must break Obama's political legs in order to win and Hillary is more than willing to do so.

God bless and protect Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. LOL (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. (Oops!) 15 yards! Unnecessary roughness.
:blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. (Oops!) 15 yards! Unsportsmanlike conduct.
:blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. (Oops!) 15 yards! Clipping below the waist.
:blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. It's actually "block below the waist". "Clipping" is a block in the back.
Yes, I played for years, and yes I coached some.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Forget it, she's rolling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Tell the NFL. That's verbatim from their site.
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 01:11 PM by TahitiNut
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
olkaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Oh, I didn't know. Carry on!
Obama would have known that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Great!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is getting so funny!
It's even getting so obvious. Even one or two die-hard Hillary supporters will catch on sooner or later, and see the futility of her continuing to campaign.

Like she's not spending real money in her campaign that could be used in the general election, (after she pays her already mounting unpaid bills).

Like she's going to be able to raise money for the Dem party after she loses in June


Like she's going to be happy keeping her mouth shut in the the fall, and not subverting Obama's run for President against McSame!

Like she's going to figure out her place in history as the first First Lady ever to be elected to the US Senate twice just because her name was NOT just Hillary Rodham.

Like she'll figure out that LYING about Bosnia was not OKAY, since there were videotape libraries at all the major networks.

Like she'll stay married to Bill since he started her down the losing path with his "over-the-top" racist comments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Don't misunderestimate Obama
He seems to have a way to turn these attacks back on her. He is very calm and unflappable but I don't believe he is anyone's fool.

Recently he has been responding with compliments and encouragement to hillarity which makes her look even more unhinged and hysterical.

I think she is beginning to believe he isn't the naive inexperienced kid who only wants to hold hand and sing kumbaiya with everybody but in reality a politician far "tougher" than she will ever dream of being.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. He is always calm. Never mad. Never rude. Great! (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Reminds me of that time in the debate
when the moderator said something about hilary not being liked as much and must have asked Obama something about it and Obama said.."she was likable enough" and all the hilary supporters on DU jumped on that with both boots and Raged at how mean he was..but, hilary can be as f'n mean as she wants to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I liked that answer. It was funny and not rude. (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Obama has
true grit all right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TomBall Democrat Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
44. Once upon a time in America - we had statesmen
Might we dream to see that once again?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Yes, why does it not matter anymore??? (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yes We Did Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. She throws an awful lot of interceptions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
19. When the score's that bad, and it's past the 2-minute warning ...
They usually kneel down and let the clock run out. Sometimes the coaches will meet on field to shake hands while the clock is still running out.

All she has is noise.

http://www.slate.com/id/2185819
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Hillary will not shake hands! (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
24. Illegal Shift, 10 yards. Too many men on the field, 5 yards
By men I mean the moron consultants and "surrogates" running her campaign into the ground.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. LOL (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. I'm beginning to think the Superdelegates will try to end this before the Convention
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I agree.....
If Hillary does not win PA by more than 9 points the SDs will all shift to Obama!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
30. If she is out of money I predict that she will leave after winning PA
and already has somebody working on a great speech
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I hope that is true. Wow, her supporters are not real supporters!!! (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bad Thoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
32. Not football, BASKETBALL
The better analogy is basketball, especially with delegates awarded proportionally. In this case, a 10-15 point lead in the lat ten minutes is difficult to surmount because both teams continually accumulate points. In order for a team to come from behind, they can't just get more baskets, but must shut out the other side.

This is not what Clinton has been doing. Each of her wins allows Obama to gain delegates, meaning that the difference between them remains consistent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Good point! (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TomBall Democrat Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hillary and her hopes aside...
mine is now that she so destroys herself with her relentless venom and stupidity.

That she's sent back to wherever she that damn balloon landed.

And the wizard keeps her in OZ.

Sick of her, am I.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. She is killing her future! (eom)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
40. K & R
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
46. Oh I think she'd be ok with option 1.
And can I ask something? What is it with Hillary supporters insulting Obama supporters and calling them names? (Neophyte, sheep.) I've never once insulted Hillary supporters. My issues are with the candidate, not the supporters. Can it not be that way with Hillary's side, as well?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TomBall Democrat Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Welcome to DU
Beautiful names, you have, too.

Seems to me tht some Hillary supporters are heavily invested in the gender issue. I've seen a lot of angry women here. Some have been angry with me for not backing a woman, any woman.

Kind of late 20th century thinking, in my opinion.

Most of the time, I try to ignore it. Sometimes, I bash back - but try to keep it about the candidate, never the poster.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Hillary supporters are really hurt she is losing!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
49. kick. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC