Quit? I don't think so.

[WillTheGoober]

I must apologize, openly and publicly -- for I was, for a brief delusional moment, believing the idea that Hillary should step aside and join Barack to the victory. But then I came back to my senses and came back to politics after a brief hiatus; and I realized the absurdity in the idea of Hillary leaving this campaign.

Hillary Clinton has run an historic campaign. She has already surpassed any Presidential bid by a woman -- by far. She has raised double the amount of money the nominee of the Republican party has raised. And while she has fell short of Barack's historic fund raising, she raised $35 million in a month where she lost every single contest.

Hillary Clinton deserves the right -- and deserves the respect to have every state get the opportunity to vote for her.

Those Democrats calling for her to resign are cowards. Really - they are insulting both of these candidates by calling for such a thing. They are saying that they don't believe their candidates are strong enough to rightfully win the nomination AND win the general election. Well, I think this is the kind of cowardice that has landed us with a minority for so long. We need to get out of the day to day polls and start thinking about the strength we'll need in this eventual Democratic Presidential candidate. The more we test these candidates now, the better they'll be in the General.

Democrats need to have faith in their candidates. This is historic.

John McCain will not give Obama the White House -- so why should Hillary give him the nomination?

Barrack better thank God every day for this primary. He has a lot to learn and if he in fact does win the nomination, he has a firestorm coming his way. Republicans understand how to win.

If Hillary ends up with the popular vote in this primary campaign, then we're going to have an interesting debate within this party. After Al Gore in 2000, it's going to be difficult for this party to deny the legitimacy of popular vote.

As a Hillary supporter, I'm still in this.

W.

Edit: Typo

[cali]

1. Fine, but at least learn how to spell

his name. bzzzt. it's not Barrack.

[WillTheGoober]

12. Oops. :-)

Sorry.
Not sure why I do that.

[DemVet]

62. Yeah, it's BARRY.

[SoFlaJet]

2. Look Obama supporter here

and it really makes no sense to quit now-at least wait until after the Pennsylvania primary and if Obama defies the odds and actually wins it, THEN she should drop out. As a DEMOCRAT I say let's let those 4 million people vote...why not, it's almost over for Clinton anyway.

[bunnies]

3. She should stay in.

That way Obama can beat her flat out.

[dkf]

4. I looked at the estimation of what it would take for her to

win the popular vote and its a stretch.

That is why Bill Clinton is starting to talk about how many electoral votes she would get for her states vs. Obama's states.

Notice they aren't stressing the popular vote as much as they were.

[rhett o rick]

5. Looks to me like another new poster aimed at tearing the Democratic party apart. nm

[Seabiscuit]

10. "new poster"??? This poster registered here on Nov. 1, 2004.

Over 5 months before you did.

By that measure *you* are the "new poster".

[WillTheGoober]

14. Ty. :-)

It's vicious on here. heh

[Seabiscuit]

19. Yeah... this forum has a virulent infestation of Obamanoids.

Who behave like warthogs after over-stuffing their faces.

[rhett o rick]

18. And he started posting in Dec 07. The point is this poster and many others

that keep tearing apart either Obama or Clinton are hurting our chances in November. If you want to talk about issues fine. But I am suspicious of all posters with few posts that seem to be dedicated to tearing down either candidate.

[Seabiscuit]

21. Where did his bio say he began posting in Dec. 07?

He officially became a DU poster, not when he began posting, but when he registered and acquired the right to post. That was over 5 months before you.

You're just playing the old Obamanoid game of personally attacking the messenger because you don't like the message and because he won't accept your offer to drink your kool-aid.

[rhett o rick]

31. The post is another devisive post with what aim? To tear the party apart?

I did not attack the poster. I stated he is a new poster. Looks to me like he started posting 3 months ago. If I am wrong I appoligize. But my point is that both sides need to stick to issues and get away from the attacks which are right out of the republican play book.
And no where in my responses did I promote one side or the other. I give the same message to both sides.

[Seabiscuit]

33. Your original post was not an attack??? Coulda fooled me:

"Looks to me like another new poster aimed at tearing the Democratic party apart."

That's a demeaning and insulting post if ever I saw one.

And you still haven't answered the question about where you got the idea that he began posting in December, '07. Saying "Looks like to me" isn't an answer that provides any factual information.

His OP was not out of any "republican play book". It was an effort to defend the democratic process in our primaries - where a close race *should* go to the convention and give every voter in every state the right to have their voices heard.

Your original post, contrary to your protestations of neutrality, also betrayed your allegiance: the only posters in this forum claiming that Hillary's continuation in this tight race will result in "tearing the Democratic party apart" are Obama supporters.

[WillTheGoober]

34. Please read my post ... I stand by my record ...

:-) I think you'll find that I am fair; talking about Hillary as opposed to bashing anybody else.

You'll notice in my post that I do not say anything negative about Obama.

You're just wrong here. Sorry.

W.

[rhett o rick]

46. So you feel that Sen Clinton should battle until the end even if she can't win?

"Those Democrats calling for her to resign are cowards. " Calling those that are looking out for the health of the party cowards? If she can't win, why would she continue to tear the party apart? You will answer that of course she can win. And you are very right. After all Bush won in 2000 and 2004 so why not Sen Clinton, the hell with the grass roots voters.

I should have known better than dare to venture into GD-P. Wow.

[Seabiscuit]

52. She can win. You should know this.

Michigan and Florida alone would give her the victory at this point in time if they were seated.

The superdelegates are going to decide this race. They have 800 votes and could easily decide it for either candidate regardless of what happens to Michigan and Florida. The pledged delegate counts will decide nothing since neither candidate can win the magic number of pledged delegates necessary to secure the nomination before the convention.

They're part of the system and part of the rules, and have been for over two decades. Obama subscribed to the rules when he declared his candidacy.

Calling for Clinton to drop out of this very tight race just before the Pennsylvania primary, which everyone expects her to win handily, IS INDEED an act of cowardice motivated by fear of the very real possibility that your candidate may not win in the end. It's also arrogant and childish. It's also undemocratic and unpatriotic.

[WillTheGoober]

55. I disagree ...

... that they're looking out for the health of the party. I believe they're being cowards.

Competition is not the enemy.

There are a lot of people voting for Hillary Clinton here also.
You want to simply dismiss them as what? Not sure.

[Two Americas]

47. tearing down?

I understand that you disagree with the OP, and object to the date the poster joined DU, and while those are not very good rebuttals nor cause for calling for dismissing the OP, your main reason for jumping on the OP also seems flawed - that the OP is tearing candidates down and therefore hurting our chances. I can't find any evidence of that in the OP.

Ironically, I do find you "tearing down" a candidate.

How is it that we are to think that the OP is tearing down candidates and hurting our chances, and you are not? How is it that we should be suspicious of the OP, yet not suspicious of you?

Just imagine what this place would be like if all partisan candidate advocacy was like this OP. It would be a tremendous improvement.

[rhett o rick]

53. Just wish we could have posts with out calling others "cowards".

"Those Democrats calling for her to resign are cowards." Please show me where I said anything to tear down a candidate. My concern is winning in November. I think those that call other Democrats names are harming the party.

[WillTheGoober]

57. It's not a name ...

It's an opinion. I'm not calling names here. They <b>are</b> acting like cowards.

The Democrats in Senate and in official positions who are calling for Hillary to drop out, thereby asking her to hand the nomination to Obama, are doing so because they are afraid of a fight. They believe that neither of their top candidates can survive both a tough primary and a tough general election. That is insulting at best.

You know -- us Hillary supporters also feel strongly about our candidate. I know it's not fathomable to imagine anyone getting hope and inspiration from anyone other than Barack Obama, but we <b>are</b> in this also. There is a sense of arrogance amongst Obama supporters that is starting to become annoying and right down condescending. I'm over it, quite frankly.

You know -- my mother got an opportunity this year to vote for a woman. It was the first time she's ever been able to do that. She tears up at Hillary speeches. That's real. Enough said.

I think it's a mistake to count yourselves victors before that's actually a reality; especially given that Obama is up against Hillary Clinton here. Say what you want about her -- call her anything in the book -- but that woman is undeniably a fighter. She will not rest until this is really over.

Here is a 60 year old woman who works tirelessly every single day for this nomination. This is not somebody asking to be handed anything; she clearly works for it.

I am in awe -- honestly -- of what both Hillary and Barack have been able to do. It's a good time to be a Democrat. We are on the winning team this year. Barack will raise more in March than McCain has for his entire campaign.

But it is unrealistic and insulting to expect Hillary Clinton, after all of the hard work of her and her supporters, to simply drop out and give away the nomination.

As long as there is any chance of Hillary winning this, she will fight on.

W.

[WillTheGoober]

13. lol

Am I considered new?

[rhett o rick]

24. I appoligize if I am wrong about this. But your post is straight out of the

troll mold. "I used to like _______ but now I hate them." I have run into many. All have low post numbers, usually starting about 6 months ago and usually pretending to be a Democrat that is supporting one of the candidates by attacking the other. This constant attacking from both sides is damaging our chances in Nov. I don't see the point other than destroying the party.

I knew I should have stayed out of GD-P.

[Seabiscuit]

32. His post said nothing of the kind.

The OP'er clearly identified himself as a Clinton supporter who for a brief moment thought she ought to quit before coming back to his senses.

[Skip Intro]

44. Looks like hes been around longer than you.

[DemVet]

63. Yeah, the audacity of him not supporting Barry. How dare he.

[SoonerPride]

6. I have no time for this nonsense. Sticking your head in the sand is not wise.

She can't even pay her bills.

Thus, it is over.

[WillTheGoober]

58. haha ...

That's a story blown way out of proportion.

I think Hillary is going to be just fine in terms of cash.
No worries.

W.

[KansasVoter]

7. You left "Arrogance" off of her picture caption.

[WillTheGoober]

22. Actually ...

I'm sensing a lot of arrogance in Obama these days.

As you've seen -- inevitability is not a good tactic.

W.

[GoldieAZ49]

8. All the way to the convention

She has a viable campaign, the GE will make this look like child play.

This is what the conventions are for, to vote for the candidate, not just a party celebrating the candidate.

If Obama and his supporters cannot handle competition they should stay out of politics.

[cali]

11. Obama can certainly handle whiny hilly and her whiny supporters

you guys can't even deal with the reality that he's beating her on every front. I love it. Let her flail some more.

[goldcanyonaz]

15. And, we can handle the thuggish Obama supporters.

All the way to Denver!!

:woohoo:

[cali]

16. oh, we can handle the hilly thugs just fine

and it won't even be in Denver. She'll meet her Waterloo before that. Then the hilly thugs can start their traitorous work for McCain.

[goldcanyonaz]

17. Uh huh. We're going to Denver!

[Mags]

41. You Barry supporters can't stand someone like Hillary,

you all want her to give up and give him the nominee, well I like someone who fights for what they think is best for our Country. That's what Hillary is doing.

[WillTheGoober]

59. He is winning ...

But he has not won.

Oh -- and remember ... Hillary supporters are people too. :)

W.

[bowens43]

9. Hillary is losing in every measurable way.

There is absolutely no chance of this turning around. She , like her supporters (even those who refuse to admit it) , is aware of this fact. Her only motivation for continuing on this path of destruction is to try to ensure that Obama loses the GE so that she will have another shot in 2012. It's painfully obvious that hillary is in this for hillary. She couldn't care less about the party, the country or the American people.

[WillTheGoober]

60. lol ... Ugh...

Jesus.
It is not often that I sigh out of pure frustration with a post; but this is pretty bad.

Why don't you do yourself and everyone else a favor and support your candidate and stop pretending you can read the thoughts of mine.

W.
------

Letter I wrote to Hillary:

Hillary,

I just want you to know that I believe in you.

I want you to understand that I absolutely know that you will rise above and beyond all of this.

I know the media -- the world of talking heads run by powerful men and unconscionable "neo-Conic" demagogues -- is against you now. I know that the polls look down and the challenges are stacking up for our campaign.

But I see your Calling -- from my mother who cries at your speeches because she is debilitated by chronic pain from slipped disks she can't get repaired because this country has lost its way and abandoned its sick and poor; to the down and out, sick, and addicted Americans behind my apartment building here in Baltimore City -- individuals without the resources or the education to do anything but steal, sell drugs, and risk their lives -- their American lives -- further spiraling, with the entirety of their community, into more systemic human injustices day after day.

You have talked to me. For once in my short life of 22 years, I can see in you a leader that has everything necessary to get us out of this terrible, depressing time in American History.

I believe with all of me that you care for this country. You have cried for this country -- you have toiled over the welfare of the American people -- and you have devoted your life to helping this country be the great America that we all want to believe in again; or for the first time ever.

Granted -- I am just some snot nosed city kid. I'm white and I'm really rather boring. But I love my mom -- and I love women. Women have protected me through the thick and the thin. Without women, I would not be the person I am today. Your election to the seat of Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation in the world is going to be Revolutionary. Something like 80% of this world's refugees are women. You are symbolic, which is far more important and powerful than historic; it transcends and includes history. Our current and future life on this warming, scarred planet of ours will be impacted by your Presidency, Mrs. Clinton.

I feel comfortable putting all of this onto your shoulders. I have always understood that women carry the world.

I don't have much money these days. I'm sorry for that. I'm getting hit with more overdraft fees than I can count -- my job is cutting my pay by a day per week just to stay afloat in this depressing economy ... so all I can offer to you, Mrs. President, is my Energy -- my hope -- my positive thoughts and feelings for our future.

Please accept this -- my Energy -- and take it all the way to the White House -- take it to every single American -- take it to every Woman and thank her for everything she has done to make this country compassionate and caring through this time of hatefulness and deceit; Take this Energy and rise, Mrs. President.

I support you.

Sincerely,

W.

[dogday]

20. That is what the rules are for and I say we follow the rules

of the Democratic Party.. Too late to change them now...

[Seabiscuit]

23. Obama knew the rules before he entered the campaign.

He and his followers just don't like them when they don't give him an unfair advantage.

[dogday]

27. I am going to abide by my party's rules and will vote Democratic

come November.... That is all I can do....

[Seabiscuit]

28. As will I.

Although I'd be a far happier camper if our two candidates bowed out at the convention to make way for a draft of Al Gore (who, much to my dismay, would probably not accept the draft).

[JKaiser]

25. Glad you still believe in her!:) I do! I am so inspired by HIllary! GO Hill!

I think I might give her some money today to show her that!

[slinkerwink]

26. Do you realize that the popular vote would be washed out by other states?

that are slated to go Obama? At the end of the 10 contests, she still would be behind in the popular vote, the delegates, the states won, and in the polls as well.

[WillTheGoober]

39. Then ...

You guys have nothing to worry about. :)

W.

[WillTheGoober]

61. We'll see...

How about we let them vote?
hmmm?

[Marie26]

29. Agree

I want to have the opportunity to vote for her.

[WillTheGoober]

42. Thankfully ...

I expect you'll get that historic opportunity.

W.

[stillcool]

30. I think it's fine that she stay in the race..

It is a great learning experience. I never would have known the lengths the 'third way' would go to kill the Democratic Party. Plus, I would like to know exactly who it is that is involved in pushing our party further and further to the right. If the truth shall indeed set us free, let it go all the way to the Convention.

[Pawel K]

35. But there really isn't much she can do to win without pissing off a bunch of people

it is already clear that she has lost the popular vote. It is becoming more and more clear each day that she can not enough super deligates to over turn the popular vote. What she's left with is throwing as much dirt as possible to see what sticks and actually resorting to cheating in regards to Florida and Michigan.

If she were to stay in this the same way Huckabee did for the republicans I would respect her, instead what she is doing is shameful. She can not win this nomination without tearing this party a part, something she and her supporters seem to be willing to do.

Plus for the last 5 months or so her entire campaign has been built around the premise "Hey, I'm not worse than he is". I personally had enough of that, time to move on.

[JTFrog]

36. Using that logic, one could make a good argument for Bush not to pull out of Iraq.

Tenacity in that case, whether in pushing to approve the war, or refusing to get out, is not a positive quality.

Fortunately, her actions this time only cost large sums of money and puts our party's reputation at stake. :eyes:

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. I suppose so. If hurt feelings are comparable to dead people.

Perhaps there should be a seven-day waiting period on rhetoric.

[JTFrog]

40. She is just as responsible for those dead people.

My point should have been obvious.

[lumberjack_jeff]

37. She should stay in for three reasons:

1) In case Obama makes (or is discovered to have made) a huge mistake. A backup quarterback.
2) To steer policy. Obama's healthcare plan is designed to fail. Hers is far superior. If Edwards and Clinton were to pressure the Obama campaign to improve his proposal, I would be far less uneasy about his candidacy.
3) Because so many of the candidate's supporters personally identify with both candidates, to push either out prior to the convention has the practical result of pushing out many (most?) of their supporters too. The nominee needs those supporters.

Obama supporters and Hillary's campaign advisers should take a chill pill.

[WillTheGoober]

43. and ...

I would add a critical 4th, as I stated above:

4.) So that every primary state has the opportunity to vote for Hillary. We mustn't forget the historic nature of her campaign.

[emilyg]

45. Amen.

[grantcart]

49. Here are my 8 reasons from an Obama supporter

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5325121&mesg_id=5325121

[grantcart]

48. I agree and hope that she keeps it civil and doesn't give McCain anymore

sound bites

[cooolandrew]

50. It's not giving he alreay has it she is just milking her donorsand is in debt.

[Cha]

51. Yeah, I like the

consequence #6..

"6. It damages both candidates, but it damages the loser more in terms of later viability."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5333906

[rodeodance]

54. K and R

[sniffa]

56. Some are cowards, while others are delusional

Whatever, that works for me.