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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:09 AM
Original message
BUSH - CLINTON 2008 Collins/Scoop


Link: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0803/S00475.htm

BUSH – CLINTON 2008






Ambition Gone Wild or the New "New World Order"
Poised in the Wings?



Michael Collins
"Scoop" Independent News
Washington, D.C.

The 2008 presidential primary has been a close race. It should be over by now except for the shouting. There is "virtually no chance" that Hillary Clinton can claim the delegates needed for nomination. We should be witnessing Barack Obama's triumphal march to the Democratic convention in August.

But much like Michael Myers in Haloween, Hillary Clinton has picked herself up off the canvas every time she seemed down for the count. She lost Iowa, reanimated her campaign by winning New Hampshire, but then failed in 9 of the next 23 official state contests. At the same time, spectacular turnout increases showed that the Obama movement was pulling Democrats to the primaries in record numbers.

Clinton's Ohio win was negated losing the delegate race in Texas while splitting the popular vote. Before these two contests, Hillary needed to win 60% to 75% of remaining delegates. She failed to meet that goal in both Texas and Ohio. The word went out – there is no way you can win. Only a scorched earth campaign offered any hope for Hillary.

Yet Hillary will not stop despite the virtually insurmountable odds, the recent high profile endorsements for Obama, and her overwhelming rejection by 61% of the voters in both Mississippi and Wyoming just after the Ohio win.

The vulgarity of her campaign created rare agreement by some in the mainstream and alternate media. Clinton's tactics are particularly vicious and her charges and sound bites appear to be an "intelligent design" for the Committee to Elect John McCain President.

Two Vipers at Obama's Throat

The nastiness started when the Clinton campaign chair in New Hampshire wondered why the media wasn't focusing on alleged drug use by Obama in his youth. Clinton was forced to fire the operative and then suffer through the humiliation of a public apology to Obama.

There were other cheap shots by Clinton's campaign, all of which seemed within the realm of the typical nasty campaign. Then these weapons of mass distraction were launched.



"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House and Senator Obama has a speech that he gave in 2002." Sen. Hillary Clinton Mar. 3. Is she endorsing McCain? Better yet, is it possible to interpret this statement as anything other than as a McCain endorsement?

"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who love this country and were devoted to the interest of this country, and people could actually ask themselves, who's right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics." Bill Clinton, Mar. 21 North Carolina

The former president riffed on the Rev. Wright controversy. What was the former president's reference for "all this other stuff"? Obama? Clinton's cheap shot had a clear target; Obama's patriotism. The reference to "our politics" is interesting. How many fingers would it take to count the members of that club?

At the moment he became a viable contender, Obama had two vipers at his throat. Their message was simple: he's less qualified to lead than McCain and he doesn't love his country.

Why is Hillary doing this if she can't win the nomination? What's husband Bill up to?

There are two theories that capture the imagination.

Entitlement

The first is a conventional explanation that claims Clinton knows that she's lost the nomination. By continuing to tear down Obama, Hillary helps assure a McCain victory and all that implies (the "100 years war" policy). She's then positioned to take the nomination and the White House in 2012.

This casts Hillary as totally indifferent to the struggles and suffering that a McCain presidency would bring to citizens. His sole purpose so far has been to advocate for an imperial United States occupying strategic oil depots in the Middle East in perpetuity.

When asked about the economy, McCain said, "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should," That's hardly the level of skill required if the chief executive is to successfully navigate the economic storms faced by 300,000,000 citizens.

If this theory is correct, Hillary Clinton would have us endure four more years of Bush policies just to serve her ego driven ambition.



Rule by Proxy

The alternate theory is that Bill Clinton and George H. W. Bush have formed some sort of political alliance or clan. In this scenario, Hillary is at the service of these two schemers, a critical functionary in their post-presidential quest for power and influence.

Is this possible? How could these two have the unmitigated ambition and skills necessary to pull off a master plan that invokes nearly every conspiracy theory over the past few decades? Where's the evidence?

There's no need for a conspiracy theory. In fact, if true, this can't be the type of shadow conspiracy associated with behind the scenes manipulation because it is all so very public.

Husband Bill was adopted, as it were, by the elder Bush given the status of his two political heirs? This combination would serve the purpose of perpetual power for the backers of both ex presidents. United, the two would be a living symbol of continuity by the "center" and an assurance to the incumbent ruling class that policies in dire need of change will stay the same.

The raw ambition theory is easier to believe. After all the time she's done, Hillary may have thought, "Screw him! It's my turn." It's the rawest form of entitlement mixed with the unrealistic persistence of an embittered loser.

If the Clinton campaign were a brute force scheme combining the Bush and Clinton political factions to preserve established wealth, why would they be this obvious?

Clinton proposes Greenspan lead
foreclosure group


By Jeff Mason
Reuters
Monday, March 24, 2008; 9:30 AM
WHITE PLAINS, New York (Reuters) - Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and other economic experts should determine whether the U.S. government needs to buy up homes to stem the country's housing crisis, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton will propose on Monday.

END


Also see: The Money Party (5): "Us versus Them"

Permission granted to reprint in part or whole with attribution of authorship and a link to this article.

Link: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0803/S00475.htm

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. New My A$$
It's the same old pocket picking repackaged. The difference is, if they can homogenize the world it will be easier for them to keep track of our money and us.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Efficiencies of scale;)
Not two dynasties, but one; not just the U.S. but the world. It's tidy, isn't it?
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msedano Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. a clear case of shock and aw
mrs clinton is shocked at her lack of popularity and rejection by a preponderance of voter. but only up to a point, at which point she says, "aw, shucks, if i can't have it, i'll make sure no other democrat can get it." i seriously doubt she and her clique are looking beyond the tip of their noses.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Awed by your wit!
"Awe shucks!" That's a better type of awe than a burning city.

Their noses huh, an olfactory cabal. That's the most primitive sense, requires much less input and
takes people to primitive emotional states quickly. You're on to something.



STOP THE WAR, NOW, not later, not at a prudent time but NOW!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. They count on the voters being stupid.
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 12:41 AM by zidzi
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Maybe I'm naive but I've a strong sense that most people are sick of being lied to.
I don't think as many are as vulnerable to gutter politics and I don't think they'll be manipulated as easily.

Silly me.

K & R'd
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. "The check is in the mail"
That's what we get from almost all pols and other "leaders."

We'll do it, just have to do it "right," be careful," can't afford an catastrophe. Bull S..t!

The time to end the madness is now.

Those who voted for the war knew the reasons to go were lies.

So what does that make them?

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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. ah. . .er. . .ee. . .maybe. . .liars. . .?
We all knew it was a total crock.

sheesh
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The Money Party is finished, it just doesn't know when to fall over

Imagine, creating a crisis that makes you grow broke - subprime mortgage mess, derivatives worth
$516 TRILLION. The leaders of the past are spent vessels, time for something entire different.

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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah people go back and forth all the time with charges about sexism and racism
but I think ageism will be the stronger influence in the end in this race.

Never thought I'd see you invoking Monty Python though. LOL
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You are so clever (Monty)
It's embedded in my subconscious (studied Wittgenstein at one point)

It's all about class (financial) and the aggregation of wealth, abuse of power!
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Taking the appointed risk of talking about this sort of stuff in here. . .
Saturn will oppose Uranus ON ELECTION DAY morning.

Freedom versus tyranny is all.

That hasn't happened since '66-'67.

So go figure.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Wow when did the freepers sneak in?????
Anyway, that looks like something that came from free republic.

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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. huh ?
How so. . .?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Wow. stellanoir is not a freeper.
Nor is what she states in any way "freeperish".

We are through with accepting lies. Please stop diddling around with this simple fact.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Thanks hon
you forever have my vote.

:)
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. LOL!
You'll be going places in the W/K administration! ;-)
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. ahhh
:woohoo:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. I agree with you - The lies of closed government got us to where we are today and more
people are realizing it.

I think that is the backstory to why more Dems are turning against the Clintons - We watched them show more loyalty to the Bushes and their agenda than they ever showed for the Dem party and its agenda, not to mention the Clintons' utter disregard for open government.
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Citizen Kang Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. poorly written
there is soooooo much out there that ties the Bushes and the Clintons. Just bringing the subject up with no backing (there is plenty of it if you do some internet searches and read some books and go on You Tube) makes it seem easily brushed off by most sheeple.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. Bite your tongue Kang. Here is something that might interest you:
(BEING FROM OHIO, THIS ESPECIALLY IRKS ME:

Ask Hillary About This Tonight. I Dare You.
by Zwoof

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 03:40:46 AM PST

Several days ago I posted a diary about the WTI and Von Roll Toxic Waste Incinerator. Because I posted it the same day as the South Carolina Primary, several Kossacks have asked me to repost.
Instead of duplicating the diary, I have added some new developments, and data.
While I was writing the original piece on the history of this foul project, a new ruling from the Ohio EPAallowed this incinerator, located 1,100 feet from an elementary school, to accept even more hazardous waste (anthrax, radioactive waste, infectious medical waste and mixed hazardous waste from Hurricane Katrina) than the original permit that was shrouded in corruption and approved by the Clinton Administration
Clinton and Al Gore promised the residents of East Liverpool, Ohio that they would not allow this incinerator originally approved by Bush '41 to operate. However, a Clinton EPA appointee, recommended by his classmate Hillary Clinton, approved the permit.
This is a tangled tale of corporatism, broken promises and an environmental disaster waiting to happen.
It's long, so hang with me below the fold.
.
Zwoof's diary :: ::
Background on East Liverpool, Ohio:
East Liverpool is a small town on the Ohio River in an economically depressed area. The incinerator was first proposed in 1979 and marketed to the community as a way to bring jobs to East Liverpool.
The WTI facility is one of the world's largest capacity hazardous waste incinerators. It sits on the banks of the Ohio River where Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia converge. It is in a flood plain and over a high-yielding aquifer, and was built on an already-polluted site owned by the Columbiana County Port Authority. There are homes within 320 feet of the facility and a 400-pupil elementary school on a hill just 1100 feet from, and slightly below, the stack.
The facility is in a valley that experiences air inversions, which trap the air and inhibit the normal rise of fog and pollution, as often as two of every three days. In short, it is about the worst place you could imagine siting a giant hazardous waste facility.
Ohiocitizen.org

THE PLAYERS
Background on Jackson Stephans and Von Roll America:
By the most conservative estimates, the four partner companies that signed the incinerator's original permit application changed their names some nine times between 1981 and 1990. According to other estimates, the changes number more than forty... Mother Jones
Stephens Inc. and WTI
According to the Ohio Attorney General's report on WTI in 1993: "It was 'Waste Technologies, Incorporated' in the late seventies, a group of companies owned by Jackson Stephens of Little Rock, Arkansas that became interested in the possibility of developing industrial waste incinerators which could be used to generate power.
Note: No power has been generated from this facility to date.
Von Roll America
There have been criminal investigations of Von Roll management, including the conviction of three company executives in Switzerland related to the company’s 1991 sales of weapons parts to Iraq.
The Politicians,Contributers and Conflicts
Jackson Stephans seems to have had a knack for picking winners.

Stephens staked Sam Walton when he started Wal-Mart in 1970, financed Tyson Food'stakeover of Holly Farms in 1988 and bankrolled Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and Former First Friend.

Jackson Stephens hired the Rose Law Firm where Hillary Rodham Clinton was a partner.

In 1979, she became the first woman to be made a full partner of Rose Law Firm, hired by managing partner C. Joseph Goroir, Jr,.

Stephens later hired Goroir as director of his Worthen Bank in Little Rock.
In 1991, Jackson Stephens contributed $100,000 to the Republican Party for George Herbert Walker Bush's presidential campaign, and Stephens Inc. "kicked in another $100,000." Stephen’s wife was the Arkansas co-chairman of the Bush for President campaign. (Wall Street Journal, December 6, 1991.)
Not big news, just another Billionaire for The Bush Family.

But when it appeared that George Bush's presidency was doomed Stephens changed horses..
Jackson Stephens raised at least $100,000 for Bill Clinton's first Presidential campaign (Source: Seattle Times, November 6, 1993)
Stephens "extended a $3.5 million line of credit to campaign through the Worthen Bank, which is partly owned by the Stephens family. The Clinton campaign deposited up to $55 million in federal election funds in this bank." (Source: The Nation)

-snip
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/21045/9822/688/446786



Here is a portion of activist/mother, Terri Swearingen's acceptance speech for the Goldman Environmental Prize, given April 14, 1997:



I am not a scientist or a Ph.D. I am a nurse and a housewife, but my most important credential is that I am a mother. In 1982, I was pregnant with our one and only child. That's when I first learned of plans to build one of the world's largest toxic waste incinerators in my community. When they began site preparation to begin building the incinerator in 1990, my life changed forever. I'd like to share with you some of the lessons I have learned from my experiences over the past seven years.

One of the main lessons I have learned from the WTI experience is that we are losing our democracy. How have I come to this sad realization? Democracy is defined by Merriam Webster as "government by the people, especially rule of the majority," and "the common people constituting the source of political authority." The definition of democracy no longer fits with the reality of what is happening in East Liverpool, Ohio. For one thing, it is on the record that the majority of people in the Ohio Valley do not want the WTI hazardous waste incinerator in their area, and they have been opposed to the project from its inception. Some of our elected officials have tried to help us, but the forces arrayed against us have been stronger than we or they had imagined. Public concerns and protests have been smothered with meaningless public hearings, voodoo risk assessment and slick legal maneuvering.

Government agencies that were set up to protect public health and the environment only do their job if it does not conflict with corporate interests. Our current reality is that we live in a "wealthocracy" big money simply gets what it wants. In this wealthocracy, we see three dynamics at play: corporations versus the planet, the government versus the people, and corporate consultants or "experts" versus common sense. In the case of WTI, we have seen all three.

The second lesson I have learned ties directly to the first, and that is that corporations can control the highest office in the land. When Bill Clinton and Al Gore came to the Ohio Valley, they called the siting of the WTI hazardous waste incinerator next door to a 400 student elementary school, in the middle of an impoverished Appalachian neighborhood, immediately on the bank of the Ohio River in a flood plain an "UNBELIEVABLE IDEA." They said we ought to have control over where these things are located. They even went so far as to say they would stop it. But then they didn't! What has been revealed in all this is that there are forces running this country that are far more powerful than the President and the Vice President. This country trumpets to the world how democratic it is, but it's funny that I come from a community that our President dare not visit because he cannot witness first hand the injustice which he has allowed in the interest of a multinational corporation, Von Roll of Switzerland. And the Union Bank of Switzerland. And Jackson Stephens, a private investment banker from Arkansas. These forces are far more relevant to our little town than the President of the United States! And he is the one who made it that way. He has chosen that path. We didn't choose it for him. We begged him to come to East Liverpool, but he refused. We begged the head of EPA to come, but she refused. She hides behind the clever maneuvering of lawyers and consultants who obscure the dangers of the reckless siting of this facility with theoretical risk assessments.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/et0897s17.html




There has always been something incongruous about Stephens Inc. Despite the Little rock firm's attempts to portray itself as a small- city operation that closes for the duck season and got fabulously lucky on a couple of down-home deals like Wal-Mart, it was, at the incinerator's inception, the ninth-largest investment bank in the country. Since it is not headquartered in New York, its dealings are local news, little noticed by the national press, even when they have national implications. And, as a source close to the company once remarked, "The farther you get from Arkansas, the better it looks."

Stephens Inc. was founded by Witt Stephens, a state legislator's son who parlayed a Depression-era belt-buckle, Bible, and municipal-bond business into an immense personal fortune. After his retirement in 1973, the company was run by his shy younger brother, Jackson (a classmate of Jimmy Carter's at the Naval Academy). Witt Stephens and Stephens Inc. did much to create the economic paradox that is modern Arkansas: a desperately poor state with a scant 2.3 million inhabitants that is nonetheless home to a number of wealthy companies. Without the financial assistance of the Stephens brothers, Sam Walton might have ended his days as the most innovative merchant in Bentonville. Stephens money was also important to the fortunes of enterprises as various as Tyson Foods and Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, the television producer and reigning First Friend. Stephens Inc. is an important client of the Rose law firm, whose chairman, C. Joseph Giroir, made Hillary Rodham Clinton a partner. And back in 1977, Stephens assisted BCCI's infiltration of the American banking system by brokering the latter's purchase of National Bank of Georgia stock held by Bert Lance, former President Jimmy Carter's friend and disgraced budget director.

Jackson Stephens (who turned over the reins to his son, Warren, in the late eighties) and his firm were both substantial contributors to the campaigns of Presidents Reagan and Bush (to the tune of at least $100,000 in 1980 and 1989), but they have been closer still to Bill Clinton (whom Witt Stephens had been known to call "that boy").

On two occasions, once when Clinton was running for reelection in Arkansas in 1990 and again in March 1992, when his battered presidential campaign was broke, the Stephens family saved Clinton's bacon with an infusion of money. Indeed, it may not be too much to say that their Worthen Bank's emergency $3.5 million line of credit saved the presidential campaign from extinction. --L.J.D.

-snip

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1993/11/davis.html






Who is the octopussy that might be lurking in the Ohio River Valley? Perhaps we should start by asking shy Arkansas billionaire Jackson T. Stephens. After all, Stephens introduced BCCI from Pakistan to the United States and the WTI waste incinerator to East Liverpool, Ohio. Stephens would be a good sketch artist because he's seen some monstrous scandals in his day. Stephens' family firm is the largest privately owned investment bank outside Wall Street. In September 1977, President Jimmy Carter's Budget Director Burt Lance was forced to resign amid allegations about his bank dealings with Stephens (Stephens and Carter were classmates at the Naval Academy). In 1978, Stephens, Lance and BCCI were charged with violating U.S. security laws. The charges were dropped after the defendants promised not to violate security laws in the future, even though they admitted no guilt.

The New York Post reported in February 1992 that it was Stephens who enabled BCCI to gain a foothold in the U.S. and helped the fraud-plagued bank secretly acquire U.S. banks. In Peter Truell and Larry Gurwin's book, False Profits, perhaps the best account of the BCCI scandal, the authors outlined how opium revenue from Afghanistan Mujahedin fighting the Soviets ended up in the accounts of BCCI, founded by Agha Hasan Abedi. The Post reported that Stephens allegedly introduced Abedi to Lance shortly after Lance resigned.

In 1991, Lance testified that he urged Abedi to acquire a Washington bank holding company, but he denied any knowledge of BCCI's subsequent secret ownership of First American Bankshares. The Post reported that Securities and Exchange Commission documents from 1977 substantiate that the idea originated with Stephens.

During Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential run, Stephens and his son Warren boasted of raising more than $100,000 for the campaign. The Stephens family also owned a 38 percent share in Worthen National Bank that extended a crucial $2 million line of credit to Clinton in January 1992.

-snip

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/wti/bob.html





Waste Technologies Industry, Inc. (WTI)


WTI has also gained significant political support, as one of the original partners in the corporation was Jackson Stephens. Stephens, an Arkansas investor, was known as a significant contributor to Reagan, Bush, and Clinton campaigns.

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

The EPA has been accused of having bias in favor of WTI and carrying out decision-making activities without required public participation. The agency also violated rules established in RCRA during the WTI permit application process. EPA admitted such wrong-doing at a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee's subcommitteeon Administrative Law and Government Relations, as well as the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/mcormick.html#Key%20Actors



Washington, D.C. - The League of Conservation Voters (LCV), the self-described political arm of the environmental movement, has given President Clinton a middling grade of "C-plus" overall for "not working up to potential" during his first year in office.

In particular, the League criticized the Clinton Administration for failing to halt Waste Technologies Industries' controversial hazardous waste incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.

-snip

http://wasteage.com/mag/waste_fewer_onsite_hazwaste/
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. Wow... The Money Party is good stuff!
Well, here's some news for "them". It is precisely an "us versus them" world. We live in a nation where tremendous wealth calls the shots without respect or regard for the public will, fails miserably again and again, and then hides behind "collective responsibility." We're supposed to believe that somehow "we all allowed this to happen."

This point is critical: If "we" all allowed it to happen then "they" aren't responsible, ever. They have the ultimate "Get out of jail free" card. Kill, maim, steal, lie, cheat, etc. etc. and all they have to do is say everyone was in on it; therefore, they are not responsible. Starting a war based on lies that breaks the bank of the federal budget while the richest 1% get tax cuts is just one example of the fraud perpetrated by our "public servants." Did you have anything to do with that?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You're my 'redqueen' for a Day or a month!
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 11:44 AM by autorank
That's the one thing I've written I'd like everyone to read!

:hi:

The Money Party series Left column, top;)
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R.
I want a president who hasn't invested in getting along with the Bushes, Murdoch, or Scaife.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Isn't the Scaife thing shocking
It must all be a calculation. Nobody behaved worse among The Money Party than Scaife. That's a lot
of territory to cover but I'm comfortable with the assessment. Scaife slandered the Clintons non stop
and did it with gusto and mega bucks. He created 'Trooper gate' and Paula Jones and got the best
legal talent he could buy to adopt it as their true cause.

I'd have trouble even being in the same room with someone who had done that to me or mine.

Interesting and shocking.

Murdoch...he's just putting in a bid. Although he's got a good ante in with all his Obama bashing.
When Chris Wallace takes his own network to task and that other guy walks out because of the
bashing, things have to be really bad.

:hi:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
Perhaps assuring a Clinton/Bush continuation not only "to preserve established wealth", but to protect many administration criminals from prosecution. President Clinton had already done that very thing during his presidency.
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PetraPooh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
19. Whether the conspiracy is real or not; I've said since WAYYYY back when
I will never vote for the pseudo-sister in law of GWB; but everyone attacked me and told me I was a complete idiot for thinking that because Bill was now GHWB's psuedo-son, that meant Hillary was on board with the "family".
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. A propheet in his own land...
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 03:27 PM by autorank
...and so forth.

The establishment seems to be seeking solutions that would work for the last crisis, or the normal crisis
that they'd create. The various alliances and, more importantly, the failure to look at the real
problems, e.g., looming global eco-catastrophes, is simply pathetic. What do they think, that we're
not noticing the risk to the world? Do they think that they're so powerful they can wish this away?
They live in the same world, yet they let it collapse without setting of serious alarms. No point
in our history is more filled with danger and, at the same time, less discussed by the 'leaders.' The
people know and they won't be fooled by this nonsense.

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Their link is Jackson Stephens:
Jackson Stephens rivals Bath in his role as conduit between high-level factions. A Little Rock, Arkansas tycoon who attended the U.S. Naval Academy with Jimmy Carter and staked Sam Walton to found Wal-Mart in 1970, Stephens was owner of the notoriously toxic WTI Incinerator in East Liverpool, OH, and a munificent contributor to the campaign warchests of both Bill Clinton and George Bush, Sr. He was also embroiled in the BCCI affair through his association with BCCI satellite Union Bank of Switzerland—UBS, in turn, contributed $25 million to the moribund Harken Energy Corp.

http://www.wburg.com/0202/arts/lombardi.html
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PetraPooh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. "Their link;"??? WTF are you talking about? There are so many links
and it seems obvious you want to dis the link, but you comments and link makes no sense to me as to how it has anything to do with the OP.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. Great insights, Mike. It baffles me why Bill Clinton would be prepared to squander
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 03:07 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
his good name with the majority of mankind by his involvement in the chicanery of this demi-monde.

It is possible, I suppose, that Bush Senior thinks that Bill could salvage something of his reputation, such as it was, pre-Junior, by managing the galloping depression and redressing the ubiquitous damage pepetrated by the neocons; without costing the 1% of "richissimes" too much of their already ill-gotten gains.

Because, surely, current policies could not be pursued for much longer without triggering a total collapse of the US economy, prompting Bushco to initiate another war or wars, which could spiral out of control. It's one thing for the US to throw its weight around the international community when 'cock of the walk', but this national indebtedness to China, and doubtless other countries, would presumably be perceived as rendering the US a vulnerable basket-case.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many right-wing morons here, on Guardian Talk and in the MSM continue to revile the late Chairman Mao as a monster. We may not need to imagine for much longer, how radically different the geopolitical picture of the world might have been or might yet become, were China to be ruled by an imperialistic State Department and military-industrial complex comparable to those of the US.

Fortunately, for the present, at least, China seems to be ruled by leaders who are too wise to risk a nuclear holocaust by imperial adventures, even though in many ways they would be best equipped to survive it as an intact, though inevitably grievously-damaged country. It seems they are content to exploit Africa for its resources by concluding agreements with its rulers. In other words, in the same way the Western powers have habitually done all over the globe, in more peaceful times.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Off topic, but...
I very much enjoy your insights and writing style. Thank you, Mr. KCabotDullesMarxIII. :-)
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. He's a delight...
...and, imho, the best debater on the board!
:hi:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. Steady on Mike. You're one of a mighty band of [i]real[/i] 'movers and shakers' on here, capting.
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 12:18 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
I just burble on about the way things look to me at times.

PS: Note the impressive italics!
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. Thank YOU, Akira! I'll be practising writing my signature shortly.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I also like your most honorable nicknames for me.
:D
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Good! I was relying on that, presumptuous though I suppose it was.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. Hello!!!
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 12:34 AM by autorank
Excellent comments. I do think that there was a passing of the torch between Bush the elder and Clinton. It's an odd pairing but the more you think about it, it makes some sense. But Clinton has damaged his reputation in serving himself and Hillary, seriously damaged it. She won't win even if she does but the shambles of this nasty campaign will be a monument to her memory.

Oh, China. What happens when they and India catch up technologically. Oops... Hopefully, we will be beyond the truly sad need to threaten and act militarily. If we're not, we are truly doomed in ways the author of Revelations couldn't imagine.

But that's a bit too depressing.

Here's too the British people who opposed the war in massive numbers, only to suffer the same fate we have here. Democracy hijacked.


:toast:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. Ahoy there, capting!
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 12:10 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
The point you made about the dynastic alternation was fascinating and evidently spot on. They have their libraries, now, but I wonder how long it will be before they start building themselves palaces?

The sense of helplessness can be wearing, yet the best-laid plans of mice and men.... and would be oligarchs
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
35. Great work! K&R n/t
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IndyHatedByBothSides Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
36. I think we're more likely to see McCain/Clinton 2008.
Just a funny feeling that Hillary may use Obama's eventual nomination as an excuse to jump ship, allowing McCain to present a bi-partisan ticket.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. that would sink both of them, for sure
the way HRC is rabidly hated by the repukes, and not that well liked by a lot of Democrats, and a lot of repukes aren't that crazy about mclain--that has great potential to go nowhere.
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IndyHatedByBothSides Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. But what about the neo-cons?
The old-guard Republicans don't like Hillary, sure, but what about the neo-cons? Just as it wasn't just liberal Dems who opposed the war in Iraq, it's not just liberal Dems who have noticed the neo-con media's sudden love of Hillary after years of denouncing her. Something is afoot.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. but are there enough of them to really elect someone?
aren't the true neocons kind of in the minority?
I mean with Bush's approval in the teens and all, and seemingly the entire country sick of the Iraq atrocity, and Cheney approval in single digits -- even with the moneyed DLCers (and would they really vote for McCain?)--are there enough to elect someone?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. You've exceeded me!
Now that's frightening. I'm still trying to imagine that.

That's on of those predictions where we'd probably both be glad you were wrong;) But book mark
you post;)
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
37. Good stuff
This is our last chance to get it right. We've got to kick these entitled punks to the curb or it's all over for America.

May the angels guard and protect us because God is in the back room making deals with the devil.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
38. Clinton smooching Scaife ass sent all this tumbling down the rabbit hole.
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 03:06 AM by AtomicKitten
All Barack has to do is stand still and watch the Clintons wreck themselves on the rocks.

Great work, Mike. Had to come back to comment; as always your work is truthful, nerve-hitting stuff. Cheers.

edited for K&R :)

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Thank you ATOMIC KITTEN!!!
That picture has to be a montage but it isn't.

Oh, "The Sorrow and the Pity"

:hi:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
53. "All Barack has to do is stand still and watch the Clintons wreck themselves on the rocks."
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 03:42 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
What a great insight, and very pithy.

Also what Mike says! I'm going to Google, "Oh the sorrow and the pity!" I suspect it's a quote from somewhere, but so ruefully comical in the context.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
39. Thanks DLC, for all you have done, KnR Auto
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FDP_u2YDrFA

HIllary "Sniper fire" Clinton.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. Ola Admiral
Nice Youtube - duck and cover!

Keep them honest in NJ!
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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
42. Look at that top photo! Neither Clinton or Bush has his hand over his heart!
What's that you say? They are listening to the National Anthem, not the Pledge of Allegiance? Oh, you mean just like Obama? Hmmm.....
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. That's a chilling picture.
So much death, given the unrestrained militarism and it's consequences.

The people who are really in trouble are the Iraqis. After the over two million civilians dead
from sanctions, invasion, and post invasion chaos, what must they think of a McCain-Clinton race.

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