Anyone suggesting Barack Obama would lose to McCain is a bitter moron.

[PresidentObama]

Would you like a sour grape?

Senator Obama has a unique ability to communicate with people in ways we haven't seen since Robert F. Kennedy and John F. Kennedy died. He's got an unmatched quality about him that inspires people, and gives them hope. And he's the type of leader that does more listening and learning than talking and spewing off poll tested rhetoric. He isn't some career Washington insider who talks about their Washington "experience" but instead talks about his life experience and his judgment.

I'm sorry your candidate is losing horribly.

Doesn't mean you have to wish for us to lose in the fall.

Barack Obama IS the next President of the United States.

And all of your smears and RW attacks won't stop that.

[mikelgb]

1. I think they will both lose to McSame

[PresidentObama]

2. I sincerely doubt either would.

Love them or hate them.

[cali]

3. I think that's unlikely- unless it goes to the convention

As long as the nominee has enough time to repair divisions and attack McCain, I think we win. The economy will undoubtedly be in much worse shape in November, and when it comes to pocketbook issues the dems have a huge advantage. In addition, Iraq is going downhill fast and McCain is a weak and old candidate. Debates are a disaster for him.

[azmouse]

25. The Dem nominee will only lose if some Dems refuse to vote

because their candidate didn't get the nomination.

If that is the case, then they should leave the Democratic party.
We need to circle the wagons this fall and do whatever is necessary to ensure a Dem is in the WH. Anything less is abandoning our party when it needs us the most.

[northzax]

4. so win Pennsylvania

that's all it takes. but if you can't beat a broke, much hated candidate in Pennsylvania after all this...

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. According to richardson, that wouldn't be right.

Better to just surrender to that guy & walk toward the light.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

62. ...in a neighboring state to your opponent, starting with a 20 point deficit...

[northzax]

indeed

Hillary is awful, right? so you'd think the people in the state adjacent to her would understand this more than people farther away. Should be easier to defeat her. I wonder why he was 20 pooints down, right? it's not like he hasn't been winning everything in sight (or so I hear) do people in Pennsylvania not have access to news? has no one told them what's going on? he's had three weeks already, and tens of millions to spend, how long will a deficit of a poll taken a month ago be considered meaningful?

you'd think the people of Pennsylvania would understand how evil Hillary is by now, right? many of them can even read, I hear.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

65. Fair point.

In 3 weeks it's down 9
3 weeks to go.

We'll see.

[northzax]

64. indeed

Hillary is awful, right? so you'd think the people in the state adjacent to her would understand this more than people farther away. Should be easier to defeat her. I wonder why he was 20 pooints down, right? it's not like he hasn't been winning everything in sight (or so I hear) do people in Pennsylvania not have access to news? has no one told them what's going on? he's had three weeks already, and tens of millions to spend, how long will a deficit of a poll taken a month ago be considered meaningful?

you'd think the people of Pennsylvania would understand how evil Hillary is by now, right? many of them can even read, I hear.

[Sensitivity]

5. DAMAGING PRIMARY FIGHTS have in the past resulted in GE LOSS.

If Obama can't end it with a PA victory it may drag-on with negativity and smear bringing his
favorable numbers against McCain down permanently.

That is just reality.

[pocoloco]

6. You mean moran??

[MethuenProgressive]

23. I think he's learned how to spell it with an o

...finally.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJSecularist]

8. I don't think it's unreasonable to say Obama might lose to McCain

Obama needs to carry 2 or 3 of Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio, and that certainly isn't a given right now.

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. Yes, but notice the meme ... other DUers are the enemy now, because

we lack faith. The same rigid thinking they claim to abhore.

[readmoreoften]

74. Only traitors question the divine right of a candidate to ascend to his rightful throne.

But back in realityland, there's going to be an election. And that election could go pear-shaped fast.

[PurityOfEssence]

30. The Thought Police are out in force

The extremists among the Obama camp are so blindly in love that the entire world is on "ignore". Posts abound that seriously state that the Wright disaster will be a boon for the guy, and they're met with choruses of amens and other groupthink approval.

Questioning his ultra-moderate and appeasing stances on many crucial issues is tantamount to treason, and any suggestion to tamp down the zealous fervor is met with concentrated derision.

This forum is depressing now in its single-minded self-delusion, and that doesn't bode well: if he's the nominee, he has to convince many to join the fray. This isn't just done by belittling or hectoring questioners or by whipping up some orgiastic gleeful hero-worship, and it isn't done by denying vulnerabilities.

[readmoreoften]

80. This is a great post. I'd rec it if I could.

For me it's this total delusion that has me so depressed. I don't like Clinton. I don't like Obama. I've always considered the Democratic party the lesser of two evils--a lesser that's getting lesser and lesser. I don't have a dog in this fight anymore. I really liked Kucinich. I really like Gravel. I was willing to give Edwards a try. Now I'm basically done. But almost none of the Clinton supporters irrationally worship her or believe that she is invulnerable. They're realists. The Obama voters are surrealists. They've fallen into the trap of every Romantic movement (and I mean that in the sense of German Romanticism)--sweeping emotion, tears and joy, a candidate who is the epitome of all that is good, who is transcendent, who heralds 'a new dawn'. But from the vantage point of those of us on the outside of that sweeping Romantic sentiment, Barack Obama is just another politician with a good speechwriter; he's got some good points and a whole lot of bad points. But of course anyone who doesn't see 'the light' is demonic, cursed, evil, blind, a moron. Luckily Obama is so powerful they are sure that most people will see the light, thus it is impossible for him to lose to McCain . Anyone who disagrees is a Hillbot. It doesn't matter if you actually support Clinton or not, because what Hillbot means is: one who is evil, one who cannot see the light.

What usually comes after this is a purge. Well, actually, they've been purging all along: DK must drop out! Edwards must drop out! Why? Because they were withholding votes from Obama. They were all sure that Obama would get all these votes. Because Obama is light. Obama is truth. DK and Edwards were just blocking the flow of light, the flow of truth. Now it's Clinton, the darkest, most opaque block of all before the Great Battle. I'll tell you what, if these people do lose the GE the depression and paranoia is going to be its own chaos. If he wins, god knows what these people will turn into. That's not to say that all Obama supporters are touched by the hand of god--I have nothing against the rational Obama supporters. The logic of this movement could take it to some strange places. This kind of devotion is out of place between two candidates whose positions are so similar.

[SammyWinstonJack]

82. ...

:thumbsup:

[LibDemAlways]

73. Realistically, this is going to be a very tough

contest. McCain will be given a complete pass by the media who will focus on his record as a "war hero" and "maverick," while Obama (assuming he's the nominee) will be painted with a broad brush as an extreme liberal, anti-American, and someone who is going to raise taxes and doesn't want to be hard on terrorists. And the race issue will simmer just beneath the surface because the repukes certainly aren't above exploiting people's prejudices.

By all rights after 8 years of the chimp, the Dems should be coasting to an easy victory this year. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen.

[Justitia]

78. OH & FL are repub states, no Dem is going to win them. PA is trending Dem. -eom

[mikelgb]

9. rigged

they will let us have congress, because demonstrably, having a dem congress does not slow down a repub unitary executive.

game over

[shadowknows69]

11. My only fear is "The Machines"

It would be nice to have a convincing lead in polls going into the GE so any chicanery could be spotted.

[BzaDem]

12. The only bitter morons are those posting stuff like this

You can keep talking about all the good qualities that Obama has that makes anyone who questions his viability a bitter moron. So can the people who wrote all the good qualities about Kerry and Gore.

The problem is that America is not just You. Too many Obama supporters on this board have their head in the sand and believe that what "ought to be" "certainly will be." That you think Obama is so great, therefore, so does everyone else. Election after election proves that this argument is garbage. This will be a hard fight, and it will be very close. Anyone that isn't blind to history and math knows this.

[terrell9584]

15. Just a thought

Obama supporters in general are believing that a time has come. That we are at a precipice. That somehow, this year, for whatever reason, everything that has held true in American politics is suddenly not going to hold true.

That somehow, if anyone uses the race card against Obama, they will magically lose. Obama will somehow win in these massive landslides because everyone is desperate for change, they need change, they want hope, they want to be hopeful, never mind hope is never defined.

They fervently belief that Obama will hold onto every Kerry state and make major advances into Bush territory. They have seized on to a dream and don't want it to die.

Clinton supporters are not realistic. They will come out and say, they expect race to be an issue, they expect McCain to try and dredge up things such as Wright, etc. The rationale for Clinton is electability, not an enthusiasm, but a realiization that issues alone have never won an election.


The one thing that this year will be is a turning point for the party, the question is, where will that turn be directed towards

[readmoreoften]

75. This is irrational quasi-religious-speak.

"Obama supporters in general are believing that a time has come. That we are at a precipice. That somehow, this year, for whatever reason, everything that has held true in American politics is suddenly not going to hold true."

We can afford for you people to be believing in magic at a time like this. Toughen up. You're dealing with Republican election thieves and smear-masters. If the Obama campaign is dependent on spreading magical feelings then we're just screwed.

[MNDemNY]

13. Sorry, but do the math:

HRC= President McLame BHO= President McAss






Gore/Obama '08.

[Skip Intro]

14. I am sorry wishes do not equal reality. If Obama is the nom, he will lose to mccain.

That is the political reality I see. No need to insult me by calling me bitter or saying that I hope for disaster in November.

The Wright issue by itself is enough for the repukes to tear Obama to shreds. Ask Cleland and Kerry what can be done with a few twisted ads.

Obama is not magic. He is not a deity. He is no savior.

He is a politician being sold like a new candy bar with a sustained marketing blitz. I have seen him attack and then play victim. I have seen him shift positions for political expediency. I have seen him toss others aside once they become a liability, as in the case of rev. white. He is a politician with little experience to offer and sunshine slogans to cover. The repukes will tear into him like a rotwieller to a steak.

Not bitter (btw, the race is not over yet) and not hoping for our loss, but calling it as I see it, and whether you want to call me a moron for it or not matters little to me.

[LibDemAlways]

76. I think Obama is intelligent, personable, and

can deliver a hell of a speech. This time around, however, the r's are running someone who the media is going to fawn over as a "war hero" and "maverick." Between the r attack dogs and the media attack dogs, Obama is going to be continually and severely mauled for lack of experience, lack of judgment (Wright was a good appetizer), being too "liberal," and lacking substance.

No name-calling from me. I think you offer a realistic assessment.

[oasis]

79. Excellent post. (eom)

[MethuenProgressive]

16. More Hate from an "Obama Supporter"

McCain and Rove will crush Obama and Axlerod. The GOP is drooling over the chance to get a weak, judgment-challenged, flip-flopping, inexperienced, speech plagiarizer, Presentvoter, PastorGater, RezkoGater - and MichelleMarrier - as an opponent. Obama just isn't up to the task.
And you know what? Billy Shaheen was absolutely correct when he answered that interviewer's question about how the GOP would use BO's confessed drug use. Watch McCain pick Drugs as a platform, just to keep BO's confessions in the news.

Nice flame bait thread! Did you get what you wanted?

[JayFredMuggs]

17. So you are voting for McSame if Obama is nominated?

OK

Got it!

[MethuenProgressive]

20. Nope! I'm a Democrat! It's DU's Obamacrats who have pledged they won't vote unless it's Obama.

Welcome to DU! Have you taken the Obamacrat oath yet?

[PresidentObama]

22. Still attacking Democrats? Your former candidate, Bill Richardson, has jumped the Obama bandwagon.

He sure seems to think he could win.

[MethuenProgressive]

27. Your OP is still attacking Democrats. "Kerry2008"

You're welcome to join us in the Democratic Party.
Not welcome by me, but we could find somebody. Probably.

[PresidentObama]

31. I'm a proud Democrat whose supporting the candidate whose NOT using RW tactics.

As for you...you're joining your candidate in throwing the kitchen sink at the soon-to-be nominee.

Sour grape, would you like one?

[MethuenProgressive]

41. See the OP for a fine example of "RW Tactics"

Falme bait threads are a violation of DU rules.

[PresidentObama]

43. You should know, since most of your OP's are flamebaits.

[readmoreoften]

77. Oh and the majority of your posts are enlightened dinner conversation?

:eyes:

[JayFredMuggs]

28. I, along with many many other Obama supporters here

Have clearly stated, over and over again, that we will vote for the Democratic nominee for Presdident, and I thought that my use of the name "McSame" indicates where I am on the spectrum.

However, I fear Hillary's lies losing the general election to McSame more than I do a man who has proved time and time again that he can draw Repbublicans and non-declared voters to the Dem side in the primaries, caucuses, and General Election.

Show me how many Repubs and Indy's have come out for Hillary in any primary or caucus so far. Thanks.

[azmouse]

29. Take a deep breath.

I'm an Obama supporter who will vote Democratic in the fall. Stop lumping everyone together.
Many, not all by any means, HRC supporters here have said very openly they will not vote for Obama.

[JayFredMuggs]

37. Exactly TRUE! but. it is...

Strange how so many Hillary supporters close their minds and eyes to those posts where Obama people continually state that they won't desert the party, would vote for Hillary, but would prefer Obama on the top of the ticket.

Why such conspiratorial theories from the Hillary folks about Obama supporters?

[azmouse]

46. They're scared.

They thought they had the nomination in the bag and it didn't work out that way.

Now is the time to start mending fences. We need ALL Dems to vote this Nov. McSame CANNOT be allowed to win the WH.

BTW... I love your screen name! :hi:

[Bake]

69. Both sides see only what they want to see.

Quite a few supporters of EACH candidate have stated that they will not vote except for their candidate. OPen your eyes and you'll see it right here on DU.

Bake

[MethuenProgressive]

39. az, I've been very clear: I commend DU's real Obama supporters for their civility and enthusiasm.

The DUbamas/HillHaters/Obamacrats who are destroying DU are not worthy of anyone's respect.

[azmouse]

45. A good start would be to stop using those names.

I always say HRC or Hillary supporters no matter how nasty their post.

It would be nice if everyone did the same.

It's time to stop the fighting among the Dems and start attacking McSame. He is the real enemy and the ONLY enemy this fall.

[MethuenProgressive]

49. No. I see a need to define the small sub-sets from the main group.

I doubt any of the sub-sets will remain after we have a nominee. Ona way or the other, they'll be gone.

[jobycom]

18. Well let me call you out on that

And I'll try to be polite.

I've been a leftie Dem my whole life. My first vote was for Mondale in the GE. I voted for Jackson in 88 in the primary, Dukakis in the GE. After that, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, now Clinton. I worked for a former senator, a very liberal icon, who really did know JFK and LBJ and Al Gore SR. He knew Al Gore Jr and Bill Clinton, for that matter. I was president of a large local Democratic club in a reasonable size city for years. I've been an activist on causes and for candidates, at times. I don't want to oversell that, I've never been an important person to ayone other than my kids, but I've done what I could, when I could. I've never voted Republican in my life, and despise Reagan so much that I wanted to take a shower after hearing Obama's even slight praise of that racist, sexist, homophobic murdering travesty.

And yes, I'll vote for Obama in the GE.

I think Obama will lose to McCain in the GE. I won't go into why (none of it involves race, just to head off that oft-opined canard), but that's part of why I didn't vote for him.

So I'm a right winger? You're calling me a right winger?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jobycom]

52. Back at you on that one. nt

[ronnykmarshall]

19. Your posts really crack me up.

Just a short time ago you were supporting Hillary and now Obama. That's fine. Everyone can change their minds.

But NOW you're using the same talking points and attacking Hillary supporters when just a while back you were one.

Very interesting.

[MethuenProgressive]

21. He supports who ever is in front -

Lots of candidates attract fair-weather "supporters"

[PresidentObama]

24. Hillary nor John Edwards were in the front when I supported them. Nice try.

[PresidentObama]

26. Hillary Clinton and her campaign has turned into power hungry little brats.

It's not HER nomination, and she's beginning to realize that.

So she's throwing a tantrum and wrecking the party on the way down.

[ronnykmarshall]

33. Nice try Cybil.

[LostinVA]

35. Yup: O-H-O

[PresidentObama]

38. Is this before or after Hillary put her self ambitions before her party and her country?

And for the record, I supported Senator Clinton because I thought she was the better candidate.

I still do. But she can't win, it's over. She should save her reputation, and get out--and stop trashing Democrats.

As for this flip-flop charge, I supported Clinton for less than two months.

I supported John Edwards, however, for one year.

And Barack Obama is the presumptive nominee. So I support him.

Thanks though :)

[LostinVA]

40. O-H-O (all within a few weeks)

It's great being able to atatck ALL the candidates AND their supporters, eh? I saw it coming a looooooong time ago.

:eyes:

[PresidentObama]

42. Yes, yes. It's all a big conspiracy. Me and the Obama supporters cooked it up.

:sarcasm:

I supported John Edwards for a year.

Hillary Clinton? A month and a half...maybe!

Barack Obama? Not my first nor second choice, but he's the nominee.

So I'm on board. GOBAMA!

[Celeborn Skywalker]

84. You saw it, huh?

So I guess you're the great DU mindreader?

[zulchzulu]

34. Obama will beat McCain by 10+% in the GE

By the time the fall comes, McCain will be little more than a Bob Dole still yapping about the Iraq War and have had a series of gaffes, stumbles, tumbles and fumbles due to his growing senility and hot-headed responses under pressure. He is not going to take the South, nor the West, nor the Northeast and perhaps may have some Midwest.

The more Bush shows up on stages with McCain, the more his numbers will sink.

A 100 year war message will be drummed into the populace's head. I'm even guessing some 527s who don't like McCain will expose his cracking under pressure while a POW (http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/06/6878/), thus turning his one card on the table into dust.

The RNC is assuming that McCain is going to lose badly and are already mobilizing on 2010 strategies where they try to tie the Democrats to the wars and struggling economy.

You are correct. Obama is going to win. Those that think not better get the hell out of the way.

[lefty from jersey]

47. What planet are you guys on?

What the hell country are you people living in? This is the US. By the time Obama gets to November 08, he will be perceived by most of the white voters as Al Sharpton with a better wardrobe. The right wing media will take him apart and leave him unelectable. A tall Mondale.

What a fantasy, the American public is going to elect a black man with no experience, no resume, a wacky preacher, a wife they find offensive and the whole Muslim thing giving them the "willies."

Suck it up! Lets's hope we get to Denver with NO winner and nominate a winner. We have no possible winner from the two left in this race.

[Alexander]

58. Earth. What are you so afraid of?

"What a fantasy, the American public is going to elect a black man with no experience, no resume, a wacky preacher, a wife they find offensive and the whole Muslim thing giving them the "willies.""

Sounds like you got lost on your way to Free Republic.

[lefty from jersey]

66. Not my thoughts at all.

My point is that this is still the US. If anyone thinks that Obama can assuage the anxiety of middle-America has about black men they are delusional. The US may be ready for a black man as President some day, but I do not think it is THIS black man. Way too many negatives, no resume, and we are going to see more Reverend Wright in the next six months than we can stand. The Rezko crap is going to hit the fan and it is an ugly story. This will make the Kerry "swiftboat" stuff look like child's play.

Be warned, and let's win this election with a candidate that is electable. We can not win with Hillary or Obama. If you do not think we need a candidate that can appeal to the middle you are making a mistake. Obama will be painted as too far left and too radical for the "middle."

What the hell it is only the Supreme Court at stake...

[RememberWellstone]

44. Nice

Good to see the bully tactics of pursuading people to vote for Oompa. Do you really think this works? it almost like you are wanting voters to be repulsed.

[BigDDem]

48. and Kerry was going to beat Bush, right?

:rofl:

[PresidentObama]

50. And Kerry did beat Bush. Maybe you aren't paying attention...

[lefty from jersey]

51. He did?

How come I see W in the White House? The election of '04 is over and it is history. Let's not make the same mistakes again. Go to the convention and jettison the two losers and pick a winner.

[PresidentObama]

54. Gore won in 2000, and you still saw Bush in the WH. That's really not a valid point.

Look at the facts, and then come back to me.

[BigDDem]

71. Please give my best to President Kerry

[sudopod]

53. The Obama-McCain debates are going to be a nuclear LOLocaust.

The GOP is bringing a knife to a tank fight.

[Erin Elizabeth]

55. Hell

I know people who still honestly believe Clinton will win the nomination. All they read are her campaign emails and I noticed that tends to make people a bit delusional. That applies to any campaign, btw. You can't just read the campaign press, you've got to get some outside views, too.

Anyway.

Last I heard, her chances were down around 10%. More on-topic, though, shyeah he would beat McCain.

[PresidentObama]

57. I got one of her campaign e-mails from Bill, and he's giving this pep talk on how they'll "win"

It was so depressing seeing Bill Clinton, who knows they don't have a chance in hell, try and rally the troops behind a lost cause.

[Alexander]

56. Most of these people would enjoy Obama losing to McCain.

If Hillary can't have it, no one can. That's their cult-like mentality.

[PresidentObama]

59. I'm beginning to think you're right. Some of them are already whispering about voting for McCain...

...just to get Hillary to run again in 2012.

They want us to lose. Not all of them. But some.

[readmoreoften]

81. You hear 'whispers' of Clinton supporters voting for McCain? You hear 'whispers' on a message board?

Point out these whispers. You have some nerve in starting this bullshit when there's an open thread in GDP called "I will not vote for Clinton if she's the nominee" and and Obama supporters refusing to vote for Clinton by a large percentage.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5338635&mesg_id=5338635

You're the problem. Not Clinton. Not Obama. Not even the damn Republicans. YOU. It's people like you who do the GOP's work for them. Dumb conspiracy theorist bullshit. Disgusting.

[Erin Elizabeth]

60. You nailed what I've been seeing

in her a lot. A sense of entitlement.

[MyNameGoesHere]

61. Takes a moron to know one i guess. Have a nice day moron. n/t

[PresidentObama]

63. That's it--fight after lunch, at the swingset.

[MyNameGoesHere]

67. Sure that's what all the name calling 5 year olds do.

They name call and then they want a fight at the swing set. I look at it as just greeting you in return for your wonderful interpretation of HRC supporters.

[Arkansas Granny]

68. Saying that Obama is unlikely to win against McCain and wishing for it to happen

are two different things. Thinking that McCain has a better chance than Obama does not make one a bitter moron.

[HuffleClaw]

70. the media has YET to really act against him

and the media built him up from obscurity and will destroy him. then mccain will waltz into the white house.

that goes for hillary too. the media has been remarkably successful in its drive to divide the party and erode her support and all they need do now is to unearth some scandals. it'll be a cake walk for 'em.

what astounds me is how EASY it was for them. i can't recall even a single dem politician who has said a word about this media manipulation.

[BigDDem]

72. You folks that think Barry is a shoo-in

are scary to me. I can only assume that you haven't been paying
attention to politics very long.

[mckeown1128]

83. kick. nt

[BootinUp]

85. Obama is winning horribly, care to share some sour grapes?

I think being ahead by the slimmest of margins and calling for the opponent to quit is winning horribly. And don't tell me about his ass covering statement after his campaign tried to force her out, I don't want to hear (read) it.