I don't see how anyone can believe there is not a split dem party

[blues90]

I read all the topics here and what i see is a definit split with no way of healing this ever .

This is not the only place I see this or hear this and it's not going to stop even if either candidate drops out today the damage has been done .

whether people want to believe it or not what we have now are raised issues that include racism , sexism , and splits between blacks and whites and hispanics and male and females .

This is going to still up all sorts of divides we have not seen since the 50's or 60's .

This has become a race between a black male and a white female which seems to me what it was designed to become from the start .

This issue of typical blacks or typical whites is madness . This can make it where blacks or whites who are not racial to be put in unfair catagories .

This is the upfront news , these debates while the country continues to fall apart into economic death , and while Iraq gets worse and worse as does the threat of attacking Iran .

We are really in a world of shit and people don't even see this .

[theoldman]

1. The Democrats have always been a split party.

Somehow they have managed to survive in spite of circular firing squads.

[Bicoastal]

2. So what you're saying is give up and die?

No way. This animosity will heal once people realize what an ass McCain is.

[Bake]

3. Keep telling yourself that.

I agree with OP; we are in a world of shit. We have ripped the scabs off a lot of old wounds that won't easily heal (thanks, Rev. Wright ...). The animosity is much worse than prior primary years that I can remember (and I can remember quite a few).

Bake

[Bobbieo]

4. Would you forgive someone who called your mother a liar and a cunt?

[goldcanyonaz]

7. Hillary is called that daily around here.

This party IS split and those who say that we'll heal in time for November aren't in reality.

This election has been a real eye opener to me as a woman.

[cali]

26. that is utterly untrue and it's disgusting that

you'd perpetrate such bull. And odds are we will come together in November. Cut the Sara Heartburn crap. And yes, there's been both sexism and racism here and elsewhere. That doesn't mean we can't prevail.

[Bake]

27. What part is "utterly untrue?"

Look at all the "Hillary is a liar" threads just today. And I've seen her call a b**tch, c**t, and just about every other sexist slur imaginable. "B**tch" is at least daily, the others perhaps slightly less.

Frankly, I'm sick of the knee jerk "you're a liar" and "you're a fucking racist" retorts on here. Not saying that about you, just saying in general.

Bake

[cali]

29. it isnot true that she is called a c**t here on a regular basis

or bitch. It's happened, but not anywhere close to on a daily basis. And Obama is also called all kinds of names here. It's hardly something that either candidate has a franchise on.

[blues90]

5. no that's not what I am saying

Why even insert that thought or where you get that idea from what I posted . I'm glad you think it will heal , don't be surprised when it doesn't .

I think it's delusional to think at this point that somehow all the tension will just walk up and go away .

[lyonn]

13. After the upcoming elections the winner should be fairly obvious

At least that seems like a reasonable conclusion. If Hillary comes out shinning then so be it. I am an Obama supporter but let the chips fall where they may. I need a Democrat running the show, be it Obama or Hillary. Dems are not sheep.....

[Arkansas Granny]

6. There is a lot more animosity between the supporters of the candidates here on DU than

I have witnessed in the real world. Most people I talk to prefer one candidate over the other, but they are more than willing to support either candidate in the GE. In real life, the conversation about the Democratic primaries are much more civil and a lot less divisive than here on DU. I think a split in the Democratic party has been exaggerated, possibly by the media so they have something to report on while we have a break in the primaries.

[blues90]

9. I agree the media drives this because a good fight makes news

But from what I've seen here people are split and not afriad to bash the other side in anyway possible whether it's based on fact of not . Most people get their ideas from the MSM , not here .

I even see many liberal/ progressive radio shows pounding the Obama side against the Hillary side not that progressive radio has a huge following .

I know people who support Obama who will not vote for Hillary and vice versa , they will not vote for McCain so they will not vote at all . Or will vote for Nader .

[AlGore-08.com]

14. Current polling has 1/4 to 1/3 of each candidate's supporters saying they won't vote for the other

In the general election. Will that still be true at the time of the general election? There is no way to tell, but I am pessimistic because the clashes between the supporters have not been about policy - - they've been about the candidate and the candidate's personal qualities. If the clashes had been about policy, that could be healed by the nominee shifting their position even a little to accommodate the position of the loser's supporters. But all the fights are about whether candidate A is a liar or candidate B is hypocrite... there's no "outreach" that can be done there.

[lefty from jersey]

8. Nominate a winner

There is no way Obama can win in a general election after the Rethugs get finished with him. Hillary can not win because the animosity of Obama partisans will sink the Party. Neither has the delegates to win, nor will they have in August.

Since we have managed to screw up this two car parade so far, let's stop the insanity. Delegates need to stay uncommitted and nominate some one else. There will be plenty of time to unite the party and bring in the moderates and independents that will decide the election anyway. No OBAMA/NO HILLARY. Two losers...

[goldcanyonaz]

10. I'm starting to feel this way too.

[azmouse]

17. Poor BS.

Stop worrying about the Reps. They have enough problems with their own candidate.

Obama is more likely to be harmed in the GE by the animosity of the HRC supporters who have stated more than once they will vote for McSame if their 'girl' doesn't get the nom.

No other candidates are riding to the rescue.
As Molly Ivins would say: We have to dance with them that brung us.

[northzax]

24. you read this board too much

but you konw what? I've been insulted five times TODAY on this board. every single time by an Obama supporter. Is that the majority of Obama supporters? of course not. is it a growing theme? yup. go look at the thread titles in this forum. it's acceptable to use the nastiest language I have ever seen allowed here directed against a Democrat. not to mention her supporters. it is ugly, and it is getting worse.

Will I vote for Obama if he is the nominee? yes. will I volunteer for him? not a chance. I don't want to work with people who either use, or tolerate, such language towards another Democrat. Someone else can quite their job on September 1 and work nonstop for the next two months, like I did for Kerry.

for the record, it isn't Hillary's supporters who are creating a rift in the Party. that comes straight from the other side.

but go ahead, call my favoured candidate a lying, white trash, tonya-harding, deadbeat cunt. but don't ask me to join you. (and I am not talking about you in particular)

[azmouse]

25. If you aren't talking to me in particular then I'd ask you kindly

to delete that last sentence in your post to me.

I have NEVER used that language about Hillary and I NEVER would.

I have never told a HRC supporter to fuck off or kiss my ass but I have had HRC supporters say that to me.
Read into that whatever you want.

[OnionPatch]

30. Well, then we should just give up, right?

Because the right wing is ALWAYS going to attack any candidate we put forth with equal fervor. No way is Hillary going to escape it, either, it she's the nominee. In fact, they'll have plenty more dirt on her to work with.

Losers? Because the right wing attacks them? It's a badge of honor in my book.

[Droopy]

11. It was just as ugly here last time around

And we all got behind Kerry when the time came- for the most part. I don't think racial and gender issues are the reason for the divide here at DU. Out in the real world it may be a different story I guess.

I do agree with you saying that we are in a world of shit and people don't see it and I think it's because of our foreign policy. It goes beyond the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and back several decades. Our government has been mistreating the rest of the world for a long time and I think it has finally caught up with us.

[blues90]

18. Yes we ended up with Kerry

And look what happened . I heard so many people t that time saying they were positive the bush admin had no chance of winning yet he did .

They managed to not only rig the elections but murder Kerry and got away with attacking his military career .

Kerry went the wrong way with his campaign by compeating with bush on bushes terms .

People were so certian that bush had his last days .

[Droopy]

20. My point was not whether Kerry was a good candidate or not

He was just the candidate that ended up being our nominee and we got behind him. We'll do the same with Hillary or Obama. Hopefully, both of those candidates have learned from the Kerry campaign and will not allow themselves to be swift-boated.

[Mags]

28. I was here last election, and I have never seen or experienced

anything like this on DU. or in my lifetime. I would have voted for any of the Candidates in 2004 as long as they were a Dem. but, this site has turned to crap this year. I guess I was brought up so much different then the BO folks, I have never had to get in the gutter and trash someone because I wanted to win something so badly. I actually feel sorry for these folks, they seem to be so desperate that they don't care who they destroy to get what they want. To me there are such a thing as principles , grace and tolerance. That is not happening here. It's totally disgusting and just remember, what goes around comes around.

[Mags]

12. I see it, that is why this Country needs Hillary Clinton as our President

[totodeinhere]

16. I don't get the connection.

You want to reward Hillary for dividing the party by giving her the nomination? That just doesn't make any sense.

[leftynyc]

23. Hillary is to blame for dividing the party?

You don't see any blame that can be attributed to Sen Obama and his supporters?

[snooper2]

15. Your right...

we still have 29% of the dead enders....

Another Bush2-Hillary commonality... :rofl:

[TooBigaTent]

19. I agree and I think it is even worse than the OP thinks. The two active camps

(HC and BO) are totally focused on getting the win for their candidate and do not seem to care what it is doing to the party.

BUT, I think that, for a sizeable portion of each group, the craving for victory that is driving their tactics and psychological investment does not translate into permanent membership in our party. Some percentage of each group really only like the candidate and do not really pay attention to the policies (they actually do have policies they support - you just don't hear a lot about them) each is promoting. When the election is over, how many of them (nominee and non-nominee) will stick with the Democratic Party? I would assert that the numbers of participants (not just registered voters) will fall off drastically.

The real schism in the party proper is between the liberals and the republic/corporate wing. This reflects on the true goals each have in where they want the party to go and what they want it to represent. And this is where the real battle for the soul of the party will take place.

The former schism will minimize when the election is over and the late-comers go back to their lives.

The latter one will be fought, long and hard, and its outcome will be more important in the future history of the party and the country than a brief uptick of enthusiasm for a particular individual.

[Beregond2]

21. Split...

"The Party" is about one tenth of one percent of the people who vote for Democrats. Most of whom are too busy having lives to pay much attention to what goes on in primaries. They will vote for whoever gets the nomination, and all this drama won't matter a damn. Don't be so melodramatic.

[blues90]

22. Melodramatic ?

No , it's being realistic . if it is one tenth of one percent then no one has a clue who will win the presidential seat .

[readmoreoften]

31. Everyone has fallen for stupid Rovian tricks. Dumbest election ever.

It's pretty clear to me why they had to get Edwards and DK out of the race so "history" could take place. I've seen people defend racist, sexist, and homophobic crap in support of their chosen centrist, corporate line-tower. I've seen people be DEEMED racist for simply living in regions of the country and voting for Clinton. (The rural areas in South Texas went for Hillary! Bunch of racist redneck thugs! Oh wait... the southern half of Texas is largely hispanic and Hillary is popular with hispanics! Aha! Hispanics must be racists too!) And this Babygate crap against Obama just cynically spoonfeeds the right their talking points.

We're a bunch of fucking stooges. The corporations don't care who wins--they win no matter who wins. The Religious Right doesn't care who wins, they lose this round whoever wins. Only the Republican sociopaths care--and frankly, I don't think they even care that much. Seems to me that they're more concerned with breaking up the Democratic party and taking it over than even fighting it. That's my guess. The next step of the Republicans will be to control our primaries to give us candidates that they can manipulate. Heck, far as I'm concerned we might be there.

[DrFunkenstein]

32. You Should Have Seen The Bad Blood Between Kerry and Dean Supporters

And we managed to have record Democratic turnout. Unfortunately, a rash of gay marriage referendums across the country drove up conservative turnout even higher.

Fortunately, this will also be another year that comes down to turnout. And if you look at the fact that Obama has about five times the fundraising and about 10 times the voter turnout, things look much better than polls of "likely voters" - which doesn't take into account all the new people Obama is bringing into the process.

[KoKo]

33. One wonders how our Dem Party allowed themselves to fall into this TRAP...

But, then...our Dems have been acting pretty strangely for a few decades now. One does start to wonder about that "One Party System" given what we've been through...as Dems always voting for "CHANGE" and getting Repug Lite.

[Toucano]

34. I think it's divided, but not as deeply divided as it would appear by

reading DU.

DU is such a microcosm. I don't know anyone outside of DU who won't vote for either Clinton or Obama in the general.