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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:19 PM
Original message
What's all this talk about babies?
I'm out of the loop. What's going on? :shrug:
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama said this:
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 06:24 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."


And now he has outed himself as a baby hater. Two people someone knew switched to McCain because of it!!
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "Two people someone knew" LMAO!!! N/T
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Darth_Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well, teenagers shouldn't be saddled with a baby.......
Babies are hard work, especially if you are a growing teen with no financial support, etc, etc.


If I had a daughter, I wouldn't want her being a mother at 16 or 18. :(
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Nope. He wants to grind up babies for Soylent Green.
Sorry.
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. Then tell her not to fuck. IF you had a daughter, that is.
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 08:06 PM by DemVet
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. The context was sex education not abortion.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. ROFL....
Glad I'm on the "anti-baby" side...
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. For Pete's sake, he's just saying that we should have sex ed
and we should! Kids should be taught about contraception and preventing STD's when they're in middle school. Geez, show them pictures of most STD's and they'll probably want to wear full body condoms if and when they ever have sex!
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. teenaged mothers have a much harder time getting education needed for good jobs
I thought it was hard enough being a single mom at 25 even with a college degree and good job.... I can't even imagine how much harder it would have been for me and my son if I were trying to make it in a minimum wage job...

How can people see this statement as a negative? :eyes:

(I *know* that YOU don't - guess I'm just venting... sorry..)
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littlebit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. That's what all this is about?
That quote? I am a Hillary supporter and I don't think that quote was that big of a deal. I think he is right in what he said. Damn I will be glad when this crap is over.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. ibid.
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Sweet Pea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. An idiotic thing to say
regardless what he meant.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Oh? Are you a member?
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. It didn't come out exactly right, but the sentiment is not idiotic.
It wasn't phrased optimally but that happens on the trail. To everyone.

It usually doesn't end up affecting things in the end.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. A nine or six year old with a baby is suppose to be a blessing?
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faithfulcitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. he probably meant when they get older.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. When Mrs. Anwar Sadat took that position, she was celebrated.
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 07:21 PM by TahitiNut
I find it exceedingly strange that DU's self-proclaimed 'feminists' would attack Obama for asserting that young women should be empowered by education and access to condoms and birth control to assert control over their own bodies and be able to determine their own futures.

We seem to have a local chapter of the "Incubate or Die!" Society on DU. :puke:

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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I never knew until today Democrats were anti-choice and considered unplanned pregnancies a blessing.
I guess I also didn't realize that what a meth addicted street kid really needs is responsibility for a child.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama is pregnant.
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Hillary is the father. n/t
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. SNORT! nt
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. you tube clip that's circulating:
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. And some bang up intelligent comments there.
"Why should an innocent baby be punished (killed) because one of his daughters made a "mistake"? Where's the moral teaching in that?"

and

"shut your hole he is racist ..pro abortion lier and muslim...he is done"
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Aren't there always?
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 06:37 PM by depakid
fairly typical of what passes for political discourse in the states.

My Aussie girlfriend had never heard of FR before, so we had a look.

Her reaction:

When she gets here in a couple of weeks, I'm going to turn her on to CSPAN's Washington Journal.

:rofl:



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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. YouTube and Yahoo are pretty much unreadable.
My husband is British and never ceases to be amazed. :hi:
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MediaBabe Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Come November, if Obama is our nominee
People are going to find out that many American voters do not want a baby killed when a teenager makes a mistake. They believe that adoption is better than what they see as murder and Obama is not going to change their minds.

Many people who originally supported George Bush did so on one issue only - his pro life stance. Is it so wrong to adress this now? What do we Democrats gain by ignoring it and getting slapped in the face come General Election time?
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. And this would be different if Hillary were the nominee?
FYI, she's 100% pro-choice too.

Yep, even for teenagers.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. **Attention** Attention** Both of our nominees are pro-choice **Attention**Attention**
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. Are we supposed to be scared..
of Bush's base? We are the Democratic Party not the Republican. Choice is only an issue for some religious extremists.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Abortion
The Anti-Choice (I hate calling them pro-life) crowd is going to come out no matter what. They always do they are a dependable block. You just have to rely on beating that crowd...they are actually a minority.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. "a baby killed" ... "murder"
Thanks for parroting rightwing fundie talking points.

You're probably on the wrong web site.

Buh bye!
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MediaBabe Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. You missed the point of my message.
But you know that already, don't you?

It does us no good to sweep everything under the rug. Both candidates are vulnerable come GE time. Being prepared is the only way we will win in November.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Do you not understand that Hillary is pro-choice as well?
And, by the way, it sounds like you're endorsing running scared for fear the Republicans will *GASP* say something bad about us. Enough capitulation! It hasn't worked for us! We need to stand up and fight!
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. he said we can reduce our prison population
by releasing offenders and giving them babies instead.

At least I think that's what he said.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. At least that would be worth getting upset over.
I mean really, why would we want to punish the inmates AGAIN? :)
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. rofl (n/t)...
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. maybe he was referring to this?

• In 2000, 1.5 million U.S. children had an incarcerated parent. Between 1990-2001, the number of women in prison increased by 106%.
• In 1995, 12% of children in foster care had not received routine health care. 90% had not received services to address developmental delays.
• Between 1992-2002, the number of infants and toddlers entering foster care increased by 110%.
• In 1993, more than 60% of the homeless population in NYC municipal shelters were former foster youth.

• According to a 1999 report, less than 50% of foster youth had graduated from high school, compared to 85% of the general population.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are more than half a million children and youth in the U.S. foster care system, a 90% increase since 1987.Three of 10 of the nation’s homeless are former foster children.
A recent study has found that 12-18 months after leaving foster care:
27% of the males and 10% of the females had been incarcerated

33% were receiving public assistance
37% had not finished high school
50% were unemployed
Children in foster care are three to six times more likely than children not in care to have emotional, behavioral and developmental problems,

A study by the National Center for Mental Health and Juvenille Justice found 70% of these youth meet the criteria for at least one mental health disorder. What's worse is that 36% of the parents of these youth intentionaly involved the juvenille justice system to access mental health services...some 12,700 children were places in either child welfare, or the juvenilled justice systems to access mental health systems (U.S. GAO 2003) Of course, the U.S. DOJ in recent investigations into the conditions in these juvenille detention and correctional facilities, found inadequate access to treatment, inappropriate use of medications, and neglect of suicide attempts nationwide (U.S.DOJ 2005).
---80 percent of prison inmates have been through the foster care system.

* 872,000 children and youth were confirmed victims of abuse or neglect in the United States in 2004.





http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/stats_research/afcars/statistics/entryexit2005.htm
Foster Care in the Year 2020 (if nothing changes in child welfare trends)
Children who will experience the foster care system Over 9,000,00014
Children who will age out of the foster care system 300,00015
Foster youth aging out of the system that will experience homelessness 75,00016
Foster youth aging out of the system that graduate from college 9,00017
Number of children killed by abuse or neglect 22,50018

http://www.casey.org/MediaCenter/MediaKit/FactSheet.htm



In 1999, an estimated 3,244,000 children were reported to Child Protective Services (CPS) agencies as alleged victims of child maltreatment. Child abuse reports have maintained a steady growth for the past ten years, with the total number of reports nationwide increasing 45% since 1987 (Nation Committee for the Prevention of Child Abuse (NCPCA) 2000 Annual Fifty State Survey).
-----------

In 1999, an estimated 1,401 child abuse and neglect related fatalities were confirmed by CPS agencies, nearly 4 every day. Since 1985, the rate of child abuse fatalities has increased by 39%. Based on these numbers, more than three children die each day as a result of child abuse or neglect (NCPCA's 1996 Annual Fifty State Survey).

The U.S. Advisory Board reported that near fatal abuse and neglect each year leave "18,000 permanently disabled children, tens of thousands of victims overwhelmed by lifelong psychological trauma, thousands of traumatized siblings and family members, and thousands of near-death survivors who, as adults, continue to bear the physical and psychological scars.
Some may turn to crime or domestic violence or become abusers themselves (U.S. Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect, 1995 report, A National's Shame.)"
-----------------------------
Finding of the NIS-3:

* The estimated number of children seriously injured by all forms of maltreatment quadrupled between 1986 and 1993, from 141,700 to 565,000 (a 299% increase).
* Considering the Harm Standard:
* The estimated number of sexually abused children increased 83%;
* The number of physically neglected children rose 102%;
* There was a 333 % increase in the estimated number of emotionally neglected children; and
* The estimated number of physically abused children rose 42%.

Poverty is significantly related to incidence rates in nearly every category of maltreatment. Compared to children whose families earned $30,000 or more, children in families with annual incomes below $15,000 were:

* More than 22 times more likely to experience maltreatment under the Harm Standard and 25 times more likely under the Endangerment Standard.
* More than 44 times more likely to be neglected, by either definitional standard.
* Over 22 times more likely to be seriously injured using either definitional standard.
* 60 times more likely to die from maltreatment under the Harm Standard.



(Executive Summary of the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect, September 1996 and Reid, T. (1996). News NIS-3 Data. APSAC Advisor, 9 (3).)
Children whose parents abuse drugs or alcohol are put at a greater risk for violent victimization (National Commission on Children, 1993).

With the exception of homicide, children and youths suffer more victimization than do adults in virtually every category, including physical abuse, sibling assault, bullying, sexual abuse, and rape (American Psychological Association Commission on Violence and Youth, 1993).

It is estimated that children with disabilities are 4 to 10 times more vulnerable to sexual abuse than their non-disabled peers (National Resource Center on Child Sexual Abuse, 1992).

In over 9000 divorces in 12 states, child sexual abuse allegations were made in less then 2% of contested divorces involving child custody (Association of Family Conciliation Courts, 1990).

Survivors:
It is estimated that there are 60 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse in America today (Forward, 1993)

Long term effects of child abuse include fear, anxiety, depression, anger, hostility, inappropriate sexual behavior, poor self esteem, tendency toward substance abuse and difficulty with close relationships (Browne & Finkelhor, 1986).

Clinical findings of adult victims of sexual abuse include problems in interpersonal relationships associated with an underlying mistrust. Generally, adult victims of incest have a severely strained relationship with their parents that is marked by feelings of mistrust, fear, ambivalence, hatred, and betrayal. These feelings may extend to all family members (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

Guilt is experienced by almost all victims (Tsai and Wagner, 1978).

If a child victim does not resolve the trauma, sexuality may become an area of adult conflict (Courtois & Watts, 1982).

Adults who viewed domestic violence in the home as children have a greater difficulty holding jobs, maintaining relationships with their peers and have a higher risk of developing mental health disorders (Patterson, 1992).




Nationwide, researchers, practitioners, and policymakers are increasingly focusing on a growing tragedy—large numbers of youth with mental health problems becoming involved in the juvenile justice system. A recent study by the National Center for Mental Health and Juvenile Justice
found approximately 70% of the youth in residential juvenile justice settings meet criteria for at least one mental health disorder(Shufelt &Cocozza, 2006).


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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Apparently there will be a sequel to "Problem Candidate"
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