Disgusted with undemocratic calls for Hillary to drop out

[devilindisguise]

See, this is really the most undemocratic thing I've heard of yet, and I've heard plenty. It's simply not right. My state has voted, and I'm sure a lot of people on DU have gotten to vote in their states. Therefore, I don't understand why these Hillary haters, and that's how I see them, will call for her to drop out of the race. The republicans voting for Obama are the worst, because they want to vote for McCain in the GE. I heard one admit this on C-Span last week. Everybody needs to vote and Hillary needs to stay in the race until all states have voted. It is simply undemocratic to do otherwise, and would make it hard for Hillary supporters to vote an Obama ticker. The dirty tricks party of republicans, always have that extra card up their sleeve.f

[CATagious]

1. Was it undemocratic when Edwards dropped out?

or Biden? or Richardson? or Dodd? or Kucinich? They also had no chance of winning and, thus, dropped out.

[devilindisguise]

10. It was his choice

It was their choice. I think the race is exciting and should go on and on and on util everyone has had a chance to vote for their choice. I'm a woman and I want a woman president. We manage things so good. My household is expertly run, and my husband is so appreciative. But he isn't voting for Hillary because of course he is a man. The other excuses won't work for me. The excuses about her voting for the war, and blah, blah. Every sane woman should vote for Hllary, or insane - it really doesn't matter. We are not the weaker sex. I would love to see Obama or John Edwards or any man on this board carry a baby and deliver it.

[CATagious]

28. I can't decide if you're serious or not...

... but that's fine and dandy that you want Hillary to win, but the fact-of-the-matter is: she can't. So, if she can't win, shouldn't she gracefully bow out so that the party can heal its wounds in time for the GE? I personally don't care how long she runs. I know she has lost.

[cascadiance]

31. WAS IT? He certainly didn't hint towards that the week before...

I'm still stuck with a sign, etc. that I received later after I donated to his campaign during the weeks before he left where he was rallying people to support him and his drive to the convention.

If you want a "woman president" then why don't you get the Republicans to make Condi McCain's running mate. Then you probably will have one sooner. I know you won't, but had to paint that extreme example to help show that it isn't just that we're voting on whether she's a woman or not that matters.

It's not just about having a "woman president" that America needs to prioritize voting for. It is prioritizing voting for someone that will do the RIGHT things on the issues that matter to all of us. Likewise I will not vote for Obama JUST because he's a man of color, but I'm supporting him more amongst who's left because I think he's the best shot we have remaining at effecting real change in Washington. Whether or not we elect Hillary or Obama, we're going to have a first (a woman or a person of color elected). That's the simple part of the equation. It is getting someone who will "fix" Washington that is the hard part. Hillary seems so much tied to the status quo now that I really don't see much hope in that happening. Her being the first women president is just window dressing to disguise what will be more of the same, kind of like Pelosi has been. Now if we were to have someone like Barbara Boxer running, THEN we'd have a woman running I could fully support for president. This is not an issue with my gonads...

[readmoreoften]

17. It was most certainly undemocratic when Edwards dropped out but that's another story.

It's undemocratic of you people who demand that candidates drop out because you think your candidate deserves the support of their voters and the only way you can get that support is by robbing them of their choice.

[CATagious]

33. She can run as long as she wants.

... it won't change the outcome: her defeat. But how does she want to go out: gracefully or bitterly and divisively?

[emilyg]

2. I'm with you.

[flor de jasmim]

3. The states keep voting, no matter what, and

if you take a look at the history of primaries (this was discussed earlier today as well as on other days this past week), you'll discover that often the nominee is "chosen" long before all states have voted.

[goldcanyonaz]

Right on!

:kick:

[DJ13]

4. Tell me, how can she still win without rupturing the party?

It would take overturning the delegate counts Obama won by winning the most states and gaining the most votes by getting the super delegates to give her the nomination.

Tell me how Clinton "winning" that way would be good for the party.

[joshcryer]

16. You don't think Obama is capable of uniting the party?

Disappointing.

[Evergreen Emerald]

24. why do you assume "she" is responsible for the "rupture?"

To blame Clinton when both are nearly tied and when neither can win without the superdelegates is interesting to me.

Why call on her to drop out? Let's call on Obama to drop out.

[PoliticalAmazon]

30. Obama is far enough ahead that HRC cannot win. She danged sure can't win the GE. n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

40. She has as much chance of winning the general as Obama does.

and likely more.

[CATagious]

53. Can't win the General if you lose the Primary.... nm

[DJ13]

32. Why call on her to drop out?

42 primaries and caucuses, and she is too far behind Obama to catch up.

Gee, I wonder why so many rational people are calling for her to quit........


:sarcasm:

[Evergreen Emerald]

39. Wait. You are wrong. Obama is too low in delegates to win. He is not entitled.

Neither have enough delegates to win.

Rational people? Sorry, to suggest that Clinton drop out before everyone has had a chance to choose, when she is nearly tied, and has as much of a shot at winning as he does, is not democracy.

No: he is not entitled.

[cascadiance]

43. If we didn't have the undemocratic super delegate system, he'd have enough now...

A lot of the super delegates themselves have recognized how undemocratic their votes are and have vowed to try and not override who the pledged delgates vote for. Hillary's only real shot is to get them to vote UNDEMOCRATICALLY to override the pledged delegate vote.

Also, if we didn't have these super delegates, it would be clear who the winner is before the convention, and give the party some time to build a strategy around who's won. If we wait until the convention, then it constrains building a strategy to fight McCain with in the remaining time left after it.

As I have said before, if Hillary were trying to champion a cause that no-one else was working for in the party, and felt the need to represent many people who want her to do so, then I'd have no problem with her waiting until the convention. That's what Democracy is about. But if all she's doing is trying to wait until the convention just for herself to get voted in and no other firm reason (which is unlikely unless done through undemocratic and contentious means), then I contend she and her supporters are being selfish at everyone else's expense.

[sandnsea]

5. Because she has LOST

They won't even admit she lost Texas. Do you understand that? If you help them let the American people believe PA matters, then she has the potential to steal the election from the people. She LOST. She cannot win. None of these states coming up make a bit of difference. It's OVER. Unless you help her steal it.

[walldude]

6. So then you agree with Obama?

He also said Hillary should stay in. Or is he wrong about that too? :rofl:

[Lerkfish]

7. did you object when Kucinich, Gravel and Edwards dropped out?

was that undemocratic?

[devilindisguise]

19. It was their choice

It's not Hillary's choice. She wants to stay in the race and give me something to look forward to in Nov. Voting for my first woman president. The men were weak, or they wouldn't have dropped out, IMO. Of course John Edwards, I had a thang for him, but his dear wife was sick, and I'm sure that is why he dropped out, and that Hillary will choose him for her VP. Maybe there will be excitement in the WH again. I know there will be good looks and intelligence, compassion and patriotism.

[Ravy]

22. If Obama's supporters were publicly calling on them to drop out

I would have objected most strongly.

[Lerkfish]

45. Obama's saying she can stay in the race.

:shrug:

you need to make a distinction between people saying what they feel is best for the party, and what is undemocratic about the process.

If you honestly feel Clinton should drop out, for the better of the party, I believe you should have the right to say so, just as you have the right to say the opposite. Its unclear to me how any of that is "undemocratic" in any way.

[Ravy]

57. Would you like all of Hillary's superdelegates to hold a press

conference, one by one, and publicly ask Obama to drop out because they don't feel he can win?

No? I didn't think so.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[against all enemies]

9. Bring back Biden and Dodd too. How unDemocratic for them to leave.

People are still voting and the superdelegates might rally around one of them as the best candidate.

[devilindisguise]

21. It was their choice

To drop out. I'm glad the weak candidates are gone. Now we have a strong woman who will carry us to victory, plus it doesn't hurt that her gorgeous husband will be advising her here and there. pillow talk and such, I expect. I'm sure that some of his decisions were made as a result of "pillow talk" when he was in office. I would even bet that George Bush has made one or two decisions as a result of "pillow talk" with Laura, but mostly he just lets Cheney handle things so he can play arcade games.

[PoliticalAmazon]

29. Come on. Do you REALLY believe anyone can force HRC to drop out?

It is highly unlikely that she would be forced by party leadership--if, indeed, it is in their Charter to perform such a maneuver.

Hillary Clinton will continue on with her ham-fisted me-first agenda, no matter what. We will all suffer for it, but that means ZIP to Hillary Clinton.

[goletian]

11. disgusted with hillarys attempt to destroy the democratic part. nt

[C_U_L8R]

12. She can stay as long as she pleases

and I'm an Obama fan. If that means running
right up to the convention, then lets do it.

[Faygo Kid]

13. I think she should drop out. What do you think?

Oh - you disagree? OK.

Bye now.

[RazBerryBeret]

14. In Ohio.....

March 4th...the Primary race is generally already decided...
I don't whine about it...I go along with it, or sometimes just sit out the primary....

We ALL get to vote in the General....

[DearAbby]

15. If Hillary were to drop out...

does that mean the primaries in the remaining states will be canceled? What HOG WASH...Hillary mathematically can not win. PERIOD. Face that fact, lets unite and lets get on to the business of kicking GOP Ass.

[goldcanyonaz]

18. We're going to Denver!

:woohoo:

[devilindisguise]

41. You betcha!

We are. Those republican women hate Hillary so it's up to the democratic women, and I intend to persuade my husband to vote for Hillary also. I had a republican woman tell me last year in November tht she would "simply die" if Hillary got it. I just smiled, but I was thinking "Get ready to die then". I would vote for Hillary if I were a rep. female, but most of them are slaves to their husbands way of thinking.

[goldcanyonaz]

55. I know quite a few Republican women who are now in Hillary's camp.

The sexism and misogyny toward her turned them onto her as a candidate.

[Whisp]

20. she should pack up and get the fuck outta Dodge.

before she sickens more people.

[devilindisguise]

23. I love her

She doesn't make me sick at all. Undemocratic people who claim to be democrats do make me sort of nauseous. Democrats want everyone to vote. One man, one vote. Besides - Hillary doesn't pay too much attention to the talking heads telling her what to do. She is probably LHAO at them, and rightly so.

[PoliticalAmazon]

34. The hair on the back of my neck just stood straight up. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

25. Hillary didn't plan on any state votes counting after Feb. 5

now she's a veritable sufferage heroine. And her hardy (albeit dwindling) fan base laps it up.

Cultish.

[devilindisguise]

27. Are you psychic?

Or just guessing?

[BeyondGeography]

35. Sen. Hillary Clinton: “It’ll be over by Feb. 5.”

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2008/010308Burns.shtml

[devilindisguise]

51. I voted on Super Tuesday

I always do. Obama didn't do very well in my state. We have a closed primary. That means republicans can't cross the aisle and vote in the dem. primaries. Although I do know some republicans are registered as democrats so they can vote for the weaker candidate in the primaries. However, I didn't hear her statements, and I don't read the Boston paper. Thanks. An interesting article. She and Obama have both made statements I don't agree with. Obama's statements about Ronald Reagan being great nauseated me. I knew Ronald Reagan, he was not great. He was a union buster, a liberal spender, and he cut people who had cancer off Social Security. I don't know what Obama was thinking to praise Reagan, but evidently most democrats don't dislike Reagan and republicans as much as I.

[PoliticalAmazon]

26. If she cared for the party, she'd drop out now. This is what responsible candidates do. n/t

[devilindisguise]

36. Hmmm...

I've never seen that. It usually goes to the wire, just as with Bill Clinton. He didn't secure the nomination his first term until in June. Gary Hart and Mondale, the super delegates had to decide it, and poor old Gary had gotten caught up in "Monkey Business" scandal, just as I expect that Obama's backers fear he will be caught up in the Rezco scandal. Or maybe some of the claims from various men who claim to have had gay sex with him.

[Garbo 2004]

38. Your prose style is slipping. Remember, it should match the initial persona. n.t

[devilindisguise]

42. I don't know what you mean

about my prose style matching. Maybe you would care to explain.

[johnnydrama]

46. you're mistaken

Bill Clinton had the nomination won before April in 1992. Tsongas dropped out on March 19th. He had a 7-1 delegate lead over Brown. It was over, and everbody knew it, far before June.

[JVS]

37. Hillary, DROP OUT!

[devilindisguise]

44. No she won't drop out

Obama can't win unless she drops out. I don't think he can win if he gets the nomination, because those white republicans that are voting for him now, the republicans he calls "Obamicans", they are voting for McCain in Nov. I heard them say it. Although I knew their game anyway.

[CATagious]

54. If he can't win (the general, I assume) unless she drops out...

then she needs to drop out! Because she sure the hell is not going to win the primary. Or do you want McCain to win??

[Cha]

60. Obama has said that hilary should stay in as long

as she wants..and if you'd get your head outta the sand you would know that.

But, if hilary were ahead now..she would be calling for Obama's head on a silver platter. hilary is an hypocritical liar.

[sendero]

47. Not near as much as I'm disgusted

by her lies.

[zulchzulu]

48. Contribute to her campaign so people who set up events can get paid

[azmouse]

49. What's undemocratic about American people speaking their minds?

[Trajan]

50. It is not UNdemocratic at all ...

Often second tier candidates are asked to leave their forlorn quest for the nomination, because to continue would possibly hurt the electorate they claim to represent ....

This is NOT unprecedented ..... And while I have no specific axe to grind (I.E. I support no specific candidate), I think it is plain for most all (those without an agenda) to see that Hillary is floundering, and that it is extremely unlikely she will carry the standard into the November election.

Given that the appearance is such, to request she drop out makes perfect sense .... from a party perspective ....

Whether she does or not is irrelevant to this point .... Asking her to drop would reflect commonplace realities in such a contest ...

[Cha]

52. hilary needs to stay the fuck in..

hilary has more petards to hoist herself on.

[KoKo]

56. It really shows how low some in our Party have sunk that they call for her to drop out.

And...I don't even like her...but, I don't like Obama, either. So, if folks called for him to drop out at this point...I'd still say ..llet them both stay to the FINISH...at the CONVENTION! Let's make our PARTY REAL for ONCE in DECADES.. BRING IT TO THE FLOOR OF CONVENTION...and FIGHT IT OUT!

[Mooney]

58. This thread reminds me

Hillary needs to drop out.

[wileedog]

59. This is why we lose elections

Worrying that every last voice is heard in primary that is mathematically over while the Republicans laugh their asses off.

But by all means, lets blow another $60 Million and spend 3 months watching the candidates tear each other to shreds so that Puerto Rico can get their 2 cents in before we declare exactly what we know today.

Fucking retarded.