Hillary behind the scenes: Trying to make the case that Obama is unelectable because he's black

[cali]

Halperin: Hillary doesn't think the black guy can win
by poblano
Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:20:36 AM PDT
Before we dive into this, let me say what this is not. It's not any kind of a gaffe, or any kind of a "gotcha" moment. It's my interpretation of a journalist's interpretation of some conversations he's had with Hillary Clinton and her close advisers. The journalist is Mark Halperin, who by most accounts is fairly close with the Clintons, even if he can sometimes lapse into douchebaggery. The interview is with Jane Skinner, who is a host on Ed Rendell's favorite network.

poblano's diary :: ::
Per TNR, with an assist to TPM, Halperin's comments are below. I've provided both the video and a transcript of the critical passage of 3-4 minutes of discussion in the middle of the interview.

SKINNER: What is the gist of her argument ?

HALPERIN: Well, she's not much interested in what Obama supporters, journalists, or even neutral Democrats think. She believes -- and she told me and in talking to her advisers, the strong sense I get is -- she believes not just she'd be a better President than Barack Obama -- she thinks Obama's going to lose to McCain. She thinks McCain thinks that too. What she wants to do is try to prove that case. What's I think a little bit, uh, galling or frustrating to her is that she knows people are going to blame her -- that if she continues to fight, Obama loses, people are going to blame her for Obama losing. She thinks Obama's going to lose anyway, so her argument is she's got to stop Obama from being the nominee. That's the mindset at least that I got from her and from talking to her people.

SKINNER: And how is she making the case particularly to the superdelegates -- is it, just don't take a chance on him?

HALPERIN: Well, it's electability. She can't say -- the impression I got from her and again from talking to others around her -- she can't say anything like, anything more than just a small fraction of he case she'd like to make, because some of it's too sensitive. But the heart of the argument is about electability. It's not about past performances, who won caucuses and primaries -- she'd like to argue, in some sensitive areas more than she'd like, more than she is able, that Obama can't win. Everyone's sort of projecting forward -- Howard Dean says it should end by July, some people -- Obama yesterday suggested perhaps it should end by June, after the voting's done -- what she's trying to do is go step by step and the next step up, in a big way, is Pennsylvania. What she's hoping, although she wouldn't say this to me, I tried to press her on it -- is that the exit poll that Fox and others do in Pennsylvania show that white voters are turning against Obama in Pennsylvania, even more than Ohio. Now, that is the biggest challenge to getting elected President as a Democrat is winning enough of the white vote. She hopes to show, perhaps based on what's happened with Reverand Wright, perhaps based on Obama's appeal in Pennsylvania, she hopes to be able that to superdelegates: 'look at what happened on Ohio, look at what happened in Pennsylvania, this guy can't win'. That's the mindset, that's the argument.

SKINNER: wants to have the evidence of it. Does time I guess, she thinks is on her side because maybe she's waiting for another shoe to drop, another skeleton from the closet, another Reverand Wright to surface?

HALPERIN: What I like to say Jane is another shoe to come out of the closet, sort of mix those two. That I think -- look, that's got to be part of her calculation. I should say, as I try to any time I talk about this in any format -- Obama is heavily favored, winning those early contests has given him an impregnable lead amongst the su -- the elected delegates. People like Pat Leahy, people like Howard Dean, people like Nancy Pelosi are waiting for what they believe is inevitable -- the voting ends, he's ahead in elected delegates, the superdelegates go to him in big enough numbers, in order to take this away from Hillary Clinton and have Obama win. But, her way of winning is to have a sequence of things. Win maybe seven of the remaining ten contests, do well among key constituencies -- including white voters, although it's politically incorrect to talk about it in polite company sometimes -- and then, keep Obama from getting enough superdelegates to get a majority, take it to the convention.
Halperin's interpretation, in a nutshell, is that Hillary's argument is that the Democrats need to nominate her, because the black guy can't win. This is based on direct conversations with Hillary as well as her advisers -- although, as Halperin is careful to note, she wasn't willing to clarify the argument beyond a certain point when he pressed her on it.

Of course, while Hillary is canny enough not to make this argument explicitly, that hasn't stopped some of her surrogates.

<snip>

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/1/32648/03532/101/488061

Clinton has been trying to frame Obama as a fringe minority candidate for months now- ever since she recognized him as a threat. She wants to destroy his appeal to white voters, and to make that case to the SDs. I don't think it'll work, and I think it's approach that's contemptible.

[Yael]

1. And there we have it!

[cali]

3. Discouraging, isn't it, Yael?

I hate that she's willing to go there. Can you imagine if Obama was doing the same thing re gender?

[Yael]

9. Funny -- I have that line from Blazing Saddles running through my head this morning

after reading this.

"The sheriff is a n... <dong>"

[SwampG8r]

22. one of the best fims ever

made relating to race
but it kills me to see it edited
kinda kills the point of the whole thing

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

105. "Steady as a rock."

"But I shoot with this hand."

:rofl:

[FatDave]

131. "What's your pleasure? What do yo like to do?"

"I dunno. Play chess. Screw."

"Let's play chess."

[NDambi]

135. Great Movie....

Are we awake?

We're not sure. Are we black?

Yes, we are.

Then we're awake, but very puzzled.


:rofl:

[Window]

48. It's extremely discouraging Cali. Anyone who thinks Hillary won't do anything to win

is living on an alternate universe.

What a pity it has come to this.

If she hadn't thought she was so damned inevitable and had planned beyond Super Tuesday, this would probably be a different race. It's Hillary and her dumb campaign's fault.

[Cha]

139. But, everything is Always about the clintons and Obama is their

worst fucking nightmare.

[DevonRex]

58. Cali, I hesitate to even mention this but...

what the heck was that about "out of the closet?" I mean he deliberately put that in there. Am I the only one who caught this? Maybe I should just go have another cup of coffee...

[marshall]

125. mixing the metaphors

Another shoe to drop and a skeleton in the closet. It could be a reference to women's fashion. Or do you think it is "codespeak" for a gay innuendo? This campaign has been chock full of codespeak for things that can't be spoken about openly.

[DevonRex]

134. Yeah, that's what I think

because he said he wanted to mix those 2. And Fox watchers understand codespeak very, very well.

[UALRBSofL]

2. She's not trying to destroy his appeal to white voters

He's doing a good job on his own just by having a racist preacher and a racist member of his campaign committee. Wright and Meeks are doing a fine job without Clinton or Gravel's help.

[cali]

6. Actually, Obama's done and is doing

fine amoung white voters. Take a look at all the very white states he's won. And it's clear that Hilly has never stopped trying to play the race card- she's just doing it in her sneaky underhanded way.

[Mooney]

56. The white states that Obama's won don't count.

How many times does Her Majesty have to tell you?

[Bake]

141. The white states that he's won in the primary, he WON'T win in the GE.

Some of those are among the reddest of the red states. He won't have a prayer.

Bake

[RaleighNCDUer]

83. Which does not mean, I must say, that she is racist.

It means that she has no faith in the American populace, believing the vast majority of Americans to be racist.

IOW, she is an elitist who knows what is best for us. Just like the current pResident.

[uponit7771]

18. her silence on Wright says the opposite

[KittyWampus]

34. Silence? She went in front of Scaife and made sure we all knew SHE would have left that church

[Timefortruth]

46. She did press conferences for a full day

about Wright. Silence? More like demogaugery.

[Shae]

70. Silence?

You must have been in a coma last week. Glad you're back and wish you a full recovery.

[dchill]

54. You need to get off it...

Nobody is fooled by the right-wing invective around here. Racist is as racist does. Do yourself a favor, and go to YouTube and watch the Rev. Wright sermons - all the way through. Not only is he NOT a racist, he's right. All you're doing is advancing RW lies, and it helps no one.

[FatDave]

132. You, on the other hand...

[Chulanowa]

142. I'm still waiting to see where Wright is racist.

Is noting that there is such a thing as white privilege in this country, racist? Is noting that there is a lot of neglect to minority communities from white politicians, in favor of white communities, racist?

In other words... Is pointing out that there is a racist situation afoot, in and of itself, racist?

Or are you just another person who has no damned clue what Rev. Wright said at any of his sermons, and just know that he's a loud black guy?

[leftofcool]

4. Hillary doesn't need to make this case

and it is pure bullshit. His race has nothing to do with it. There is enough stuff out there on this snake oil salesman that has nothing to do with this ethnic background.

[cali]

20. Sorry, it's there in black and white

that sleazy hillypoo has been stooping as low as you can get. She's playing the race card. Again.

[Ronnie]

136. "Hillypoo"?

You don't have 1% of the class of your candidate.

[Window]

51. More of your bullshit.

It is his race. They have nada on him other than Clinton's manufactured bullshit.

[babylonsister]

5. This is beyond the pale for anyone, but especially for a Dem.

I would have a really hard time voting for her anytime, anywhere.

[cali]

10. ack, that wasn't my intent in posting this, sis

I know how you feel though. I've made a firm committment to myself to vote for her is she's the nominee, but it surely will be an unpleasant task.

[babylonsister]

14. I know, cali, but when is

enough enough? When does Clinton find her moral center and stop this shit? It's getting more and more apparent to me she doesn't have one, and anything goes. Very discouraging.

[Erin Elizabeth]

49. It's all about her. Period.

[FatDave]

133. Pinch your nose, close your eyes, and say the magic chant:

"SCOTUS, SCOTUS, SCOTUS...."

Besides, we're democrats. We're used to voting for the lesser of two evils. :eyes:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[riskpeace]

75. I'm really shocked by your post.

It's unbelievable.

[blm]

79. You think any Dem would enjoy saying this? It SHOULD be unthinkable - but isn't

especially given how close the Bushes and the Clintons have been for over two decades.

[riskpeace]

86. Whether or not you enjoyed it,

you are the one who put the thought out there in a public forum.

[blm]

93. I posted what others THINK - I'm not a dysfunctional citizen afraid to consider the reality

of what all the go along get along silence of too many Democratic citizens has done to bring this party and its nation to its knees over the last few decades.

[riskpeace]

106. Your projections are silly.

Your assumptions are tragic.

[blm]

112. Because no one would ever expect a black nominee for President would be a target for bigots

or for political assassination under the mask of bigotry?

Get real. MANY of us have thought of this. Many of us contemplated it after Wellstone's death. Many of us contemplated it after the 'suicides' of Gary Webb and Cliff Baxter, and that was without the issue of racial bigotry to add to the equation.

Many of us contemplate the long alliance of the Bushes and the Clintons, too, and what it has led to for this nation and our party.

IMO, it is those who dare not speak their thoughts out loud who do this nation and our party a tragic disservice.

[EnviroBat]

77. That's a very scary possibility, but I have thought about that,

many times. There's a part of me that gets a little scared when I see him up in front of all of those thousands and thousands of people. But I mostly feel inspired.

[caseycoon]

44. If she is the nominee

I will be voting AGAINST John McCain.
I'll vote the dem nominee, but I will never say I voted FOR her.

[Erin Elizabeth]

47. Yeah, I have to say,

the more of this kind of stuff comes out, the harder of a time I have imagining ever voting for her.

Fortunately she's not going to be the nominee, so it won't be a problem, but still. She's making my skin crawl lately and I never thought several months ago that I could say that about her.

[ginnyinWI]

94. It's undemocratic and unAmerican

Even if Obama is unelectable--which I highly doubt--he is the peoples' choice! Nobody has the right to interfere with it. Nobody has the right to game the system because they think they know better than the voting public. We go with the person who wins the Democratic primary season fair and square.

That Obama should deserve to have the nomination grabbed away from him because of his bi-racial background and some peoples' judgement that he can't win because of it is absolutely abhorrent to me.

Better that people who think this way should accept the idea of a defeat than that they should try to disrupt the democratic process!

If we had, say a white man and a white woman contending right now, would it be fair for the white man to try to do this to the white woman, under the assumption that Americans would not vote for a woman for president? No--it wouldn't be any more fair, and feminists everywhere would be screaming about it.

[dailykoff]

7. Welll she's roping in the haters.

What a troll. :mad:

[City Lights]

43. And while she's roping in the haters, she's counting on the rest of us

having nowhere else to go. I'm sickened at the thought of becoming one of her enablers.

[NDambi]

138. Not I. Never. I won't vote for McCain or Her...I'll just leave it blank. Sorry Dems..I can't

vote for her, just can't.

[zulchzulu]

8. I'm assuming it's an April Fool's joke

Not that I've been suspicious of such a thing, but it just seems too obviously stupid.

[cali]

12. Sadly, it's not a joke

and it's what they've been up to for some period of time.

[Yael]

13. The clip is on the DKos site

If you would like to listen to the exchange.

[Bonobo]

11. Use Pennsylvania to show that "White people are turning against Obama now"...

That souns right, and FOX and CNN will be overjoyed to give her the by race, by gender break downs so we can all keep talking about race and sex.

Great.

Hillary, give it the fuck up already. You lost.

[0007]

42. I'll second that

[uponit7771]

15. Premoting McSame and throwing Wright under the bus with silence is what set her back with me...

...her character has proven to be lacking

[dsc]

16. gee Halperin forgot to give us even one actual quote

I am sure that is just forgetfullness, he couldn't possibly be putting words into someones mouth. It isn't like he has done that before, no wait, he has done that before. He did that to John Edwards. He said that Edwards called Obama a pussy and the truth was that he had done no such thing.

[dogday]

119. Quotes, he don't need no stinking quotes... He is

a conservative... Since when did we start listening to conservative opinion?

[SoCalDem]

17. He may not even NEED Ohio, PA or FL....MAP

[Justitia]

33. FL has only gone Dem TWICE in the last 40 yrs & not in the last 12

OH has only gone Dem 3 times in the last 40 yrs, and also not in the last 12.

Why anyone thinks that those two states will fall in our favor is beyond me.

PA, of course, is trending Dem - and that's good for any of our candidates.

[SoCalDem]

35. It's folly to keep pretending that we HAVE to have those states

If they go our way...fine!... but we need a strategy that wins without them..

Colorado is do-able..so is Virginia..and Michigan (even though the partisans are whining), will not go for McCain..
The small bits of Nebraska are infinitely do-able too..as is Missouri

[Justitia]

41. I totally agree w/your assessment on those states. The FL thing is simply a ruse. -eom

[Awsi Dooger]

126. It's beyond folly to pretend adding Ohio or Florida isn't absolutely vital

Seriously, do you realize how the math changes if you allocate both Ohio and Florida to the GOP?

Do that right now on a market site and I absolutely guarantee the Republican ticket would be trading at 90% or higher to win the presidency. Obama supporters are remarkably clueless in that regard.

Those states are the trump card in any route to 270. Sure we can win without either one but it requires a near sweep of the swing states. And when you lose the major base 50/50 states it becomes less and less likely that all the underlings break your way.

There's simply not much difference in how those states vote, compared to the national average, in relation to Ohio and Florida. Look at the nonsense map above. It indicates a sweep of Colorado, Missouri and Virginia, simultaneous to losing Florida and Ohio. It's incredible how that passes for legitimacy. All 3 of those states are more red leaning in historical perspective and recent perspective than Florida or Ohio.

The problem right now is you have many newbie high profile analysts on major progressive sites who insist on ignoring national trends in relation to statewide voting tendencies. In the primaries the individual states can fluctuate wildly in terms of preference. We've seen that this cycle, and will continue to see it. But that leads to false conclusions regarding the general election. It's similar to '06 when Lamont surged past Lieberman in the primary and a ridiculous percentage of posters here and on Kos and elsewhere concluded it would happen again in the general election. Meanwhile, the playing field had altered dramatically and Lamont had no pull among independents or Republicans. You weren't going to have a late avalanche to make up a poll deficit when a huge percentage were firmly locked against you. I still feel somewhat sorry for Lamont because he earned a bad rap, accused of going on vacation after locking up the nomination. That is such incomparable ignorance it should lead to a ban for anyone who breathed it. Lamont could have campaigned 24/7 throughout and he wasn't going to dent the mathematical wall.

Obama is vastly more skilled than Lamont. I'm hardly comparing the two. But the fundamentals are somewhat similar in that Obama apparently has demographic weakness in Ohio and Florida, more than Hillary would face. For one thing, those are moderate/conservative states on the federal level and Obama is considered the more liberal candidate. There's also the Hispanic issue in Florida.

The wild card is Virginia. That state has 13 electoral votes and is trending our way. Steal that state and suddenly Florida and Ohio aren't as decisive, because you don't require a smaller state sweep. Karl Rove emphasized that Ohio would be the critical state for 2004, and prior to this cycle he isolated Virginia for '08. He's an a disgrace but he knows the math to 270.

If Obama demonstrates strength in Virginia, either on his on or via adding let's say a Jim Webb to the ticket, I'll feel markedly better about November.

I believe we'll win narrowly but nominating a woman or black admittedly makes me nervous as hell. I've been in Las Vegas for 20+ years and you get treated to every bigoted stereotype in the sportsbooks. I can't be content to venture behind a keyboard and pretend that element doesn't exist.

[SoCalDem]

144. On my map they both ARE "red" n/t

[Toucano]

64. Re: Ohio

Remember, Ohio ejected it's entire Republican state government in 2006.

Now all major statewide offices are held by Democrats.

It's in play.

[riskpeace]

76. Your scenario means

that NV, CO, NM, MO, IA, VA are all must wins for the Democratic nominee. If that is the scenario in November, then we are in deep trouble.

[SoCalDem]

85. I don't think so

If HRC is the candidate you would be right.. but with Obama, I think it's do-able..

[riskpeace]

89. Senator Obama is not my first choice,

or honestly even my second choice. But I will certainly vote for him in the general election.

I hope you are right about his ability to turn all those states in the same election.

[RaleighNCDUer]

88. OTOH, I think that NC might be in play in the GE.

Not something to count on, but not something to rule out, either. If Obama is the candidate. No way Hillary could take it.

[Froward69]

19. So much for Civil rights...

Hillary and mcaint BOTH are living in lilly white seclusion. surrounded by persons whom actually beleve that shit.

I can attest that every day at my desk the ratio is 10-1 that is ten persons wanting Obama garb to one Hillary. of those 2 of the ten are black. the rest are white.

there fore mcain and hillary are racists where as the rest of America are colorblind.

[bunnies]

21. Despicable.

She's every bit the person I always suspected her to be. :puke:

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. Was she this concerned with Gore or Kerry?

I'm just wondering because I don't remember how much support she gave either one of them.

[Justitia]

53. I remember her stabbing Kerry in the back on TV, over his botched joke.

It floored me then (that she would do that), now I'm wiser.

[blm]

150. We're ALOT WISER now. What Gore and Kerry went through behind the scenes with TeamClinton sabotaging

their campaigns and most of us didn't even begin to realize until recently that they were capable of such deceit against our own - they are in the position where they are being OBSERVED doing it openly against our next nominee.

[Enrique]

24. everyone's swallowing this whole

no critical thinking whatsoever.

No mention that this is Mark Halperin's interpretation.

No questioning whether Halperin is telling the truth.

No questioning whether Halperin's interpretation is correct.

No questioning whether Halperin's comments support or relate to the thread title or the OP's comments at the end.

Just swallowing it fucking whole.

[uponit7771]

26. The REAL issue is people have stopped giving her the benefit of the doubt because of the character..

...that's she's already shown.

The McSame promotion thing set her back with a lot of people

[Mooney]

59. We have a winner.

That's about the size of it.

[Erin Elizabeth]

50. Here's the problem...

because of the last few months, I no longer trust her. At all. So yeah, I have a hard time giving any benefit of the doubt where she's concerned anymore. Once I figure out someone lies for gain, it's kind of hard to know what to believe.

[Shae]

72. If she'd withdrawn after Ohio and Texas

I think she could have recovered from most of the tarnishing of her character. I think now she has been permanently damaged in the eyes of many. And it seems the longer she stays in, the more damage she does to herself and her party. A hell of a lot of people have a much lower opinion of her -- and her husband -- because her actions the last couple of months. Many have the perception that she's harming her party and her country, and that she doesn't care.

[Erin Elizabeth]

73. Exactly, you summed it up very well.

I liked her SO much more several months ago. And I generally didn't have any reason to not trust her. Now? No way. No further than I could throw her.

[RaleighNCDUer]

92. Which might be the case, except

check out post #25, below.

This is NOT something out of the blue.

[dogday]

102. I just read up on Mark Halperin and he

was out shilling Karl Rove's new book.. I don't know about this guy. He is a big conservative.. What does that mean..


http://mediamatters.org/columns/200611060008

[Enrique]

121. I hear him all the time on RW radio

kissing up to RW hosts, apologizing for how liberal the media is.

[dogday]

122. I don't know why anyone would want the word

of a conservative for whatever his reasons are behind this article... Seeing as how he shilled for Rove, but Cali said that is ok... Not for me... Anyone who endorses or tries to help sell anything for Rove is a big shit in my book.....

[Beacool]

130. Why bother commenting? They only hear what they want to hear.

I guess that Halperin is all of a sudden a spokesman for the Clinton campaign and every word he utters is to be taken as if it's directly coming from Hillary herself.

Hey Kool-Aid drinkers, listen up!!

Remember the Wright controversy? Well, the Clinton campaign knew all about the dear reverend for quite some time. Did they use it against Obama? Nope, even at the beginning of February when it could have done them a lot of good. It would have been so easy for them to send a few of the church videos to all the big media outlets.

So, lay off the B.S. already and stop demonizing Hillary!!!

[1776Forever]

25. All one has to do is look at Gov. Rendell's comments about Barack...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/12/rendell-some-whites-won_n_86246.html

Rendell: Some Whites Won't Support Obama Because Of Race

February 12, 2008

The racial components of the 2008 Democratic Primary refuse to go away. On Tuesday, Gov. Ed Rendell, a prominent Hillary Clinton supporter, told the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that he believed some Pennsylvania voters would not support Barack Obama simply because of his race.

"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate," the Governor said, ironically, to a black reporter. "I believe, looking at the returns in my election, that had Lynn Swann <2006 Republican gubernatorial candidate> been the identical candidate that he was -- well-spoken, charismatic, good-looking -- but white instead of black, instead of winning by 22 points, I would have won by 17 or so."

This is the second time in as many days that the topic of Obama's racial appeal (or, in Rendell's case, lack of biracial appeal) has been brought up by the Clinton campaign. Yesterday, the Senator herself suggested that Obama's weekend win in the Louisiana primary was the product of, primarily, the black vote.

"In the case of Louisiana," she said, "you know, a very strong and very proud African-American electorate, which I totally respect and understand."
........

It just goes on and on and I think Gov. Rendell said in his case of the winning the governorship that he only got it because Swann was an African-American. Why should have Redell even brought this up??? I have never heard an Obama pundit bring up Hillary not winning because she is a woman.

[Yael]

30. Why? Because its all they have

[progdog]

140. Right!

Couple that with her despicable spin and it's obvious.

[flpoljunkie]

27. Her argument will go up in flames if she fails to win PA convincingly--with Bob Casey now with Obama

Casey's endorsement will surely close the gap with Reagan Democrats and the "white voters" Hillary is banking on to carry her to victory in Pennsylvania.

[uponit7771]

28. ...and convincingly = 20 points, not the 10 - 15 point spread that she's gotten from other states

[notundecided]

82. Twenty Points

Nobody has ever won PA by twenty points. Winning by 10 points in a complex state like PA is a huge victory.

[npincus]

29. is America ready to elect a Liar?

*ouch!* Those snipers got me again! :rofl:

[Toucano]

65. As if it never has? n/t

[KAZ]

31. I think I'm going to be sick. K&R

[UALRBSofL]

32. cali, why don't you focus you diatribe on McCain

Since you think Barack Meeks has the nomination in the bag.

[cali]

38. I think he's the likely candidate

but anything can happen, and I don't like Hillary pulling this shit. I think it's noteworthy. This is still, unfortunately, primary season.

[Emit]

60. Barack Meeks?

[Sulawesi]

63. The content of the OP does not disturb you at all? Shooting the messenger?

[SaveAmerica]

37. Skinner is dead to me!!!

Edited to say that the sea of white people at Obama's events would disagree with this line:

"do well among key constituencies -- including white voters". I am one of many many white people I know who is voting for Obama. They are sharing the white vote and he basically is taking the bulk of the black vote. That tips the electability scale in his favor.

[Erin Elizabeth]

52. Yep. Another white Obama supporter here.

[Shae]

78. I said early on

to someone who expressed dismay about the electability of a woman or a black man :
I think someone who wouldn't vote for a woman or a black man because of race or gender isn't likely to vote for a Democrat anyway.

[Muttocracy]

146. agreed nt

[Justitia]

39. Yet, she is completely tone deaf to how hated the Clinton name is to certain quarters

And also to many older voters who will not elect a woman to the top job.

Both are irrational in my book, but they seem to be much more pervasive than Obama being half black.

Of course, they are just using coded racial language, Southern Strategy, Dixiecrat crap to try to damage him because they have nothing else.

I thought the days of Democrats using race were long behind us, guess not.

Thankfully, the rest of America is not as racially myopic as Hillary Clinton & her campaign.

They just cannot deal with the fact that voters of all stripes (& parties) like Obama and want to vote for him.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

40. I think that when she "Suspends" her campaign, she will make a hugh deal of the Suspend part

Then promptly take a seat in the peanut gallery armed with a wrist rocket and ping Obama with fossilized peanuts. She won't hit him every time, but every once in awhile, she will connect.

[caseycoon]

45. K&R cali!

Another good one!
:hi:

[Blue_Roses]

55. I was watching Mark Halperin speak on Larry King the other night with

other panelists and he is so far up Hillary's ass he can't see straight. I can't stand him. He got so pissed off when he was called on some "half-truths."

[Tom Rinaldo]

57. This simply is not fair

One of Clinton's prime arguments all year has been that Obama won't match up well against McCain on experience, that he doesn't know world leaders, that he hasn't been involved first hand in national security matters. Many people here reject her argument, but it is the basis of her 3:00 AM phone call ad. She thinks Obama won't match up against McCain on national security, and that Republicans always win based on national security. That is an electability argument and it has nothing to do with race.

Clinton has also made a campaign issue out of her being tough enough to take on the National Republican Party attack machine and win. She makes a case that Obama has never faced a national Republican Party determined to take him down before, and raises doubts that he can handle that type of attack. That is an electability argument and it has nothing to do with race.

Clinton also has claimed that Obama has never really been vetted before, that we don't know what issues may be in his closet and how well he can handle them when they are trotted out. Chicago is Democratic machine politics and so far only his Rezko connection is being looked at, and only half way into this campaign did the media start paying attention. The controversy over Rev. Wright almost didn't come up during the nomination campaign either. Clinton claims that it is risky to run someone for President who has not been politically vetted. That is an electability argumement and it has nothing to do with race.

Not all Democrats buy those electability arguments regarding Obama, some do and some don't. But to reduce it all to Clinton thinks Obama can't win because he is a Black man is simply not fair, and it actually racializes the contest to claim that any concern about Obama's electability begins and ends with race. Hillary Clinton has been pushing the three arguments I listed above however, that is how she campaigns against Obama's electability.

Until we all got caught up in partisan passions around our specific candidates, let's say two years ago, no one at DU would have argued that racism is completely dead in America, or that it wasn't a factor in determining some political races. We debated that about Harold Ford Jr and his Senate run for example. We also wondered whether anti-semitism would beat Russ Feingold if he ran for President. Nowadays we talk about whether Hillary Clinton will lose the Democratic hold on the African American vote if we nominate her instead of Obama, and whether or not we will lose to McCain because of it. Somehow it is fine to talk about whether we will bleed black votes to McCain (or more likely have them stay home) but it is taboo to ponder whether Obama could lose some white votes to McCain?

I guarentee you that Obama's own campaign tacticians have very frank and sober conversations about how many white votes he is likely to lose due to racism, how to minimize that, and how to offset those losses by bringing in new younger white voters and increase minority turnout for him. His team searchs for a winning formular, and they are doing a fine job at it, but they have their eyes open to reality. The vast majority of Clinton's supporters are not racial bigots, but it is safe to say that the vast majority of racial bigots won't be supporting Obama.

I started writing about this over a year ago. I dubbed the interplay between experience and race as "the Bill Cosby" factor. There are millions of white Americans who do not yet have the same base line comfort level with African Americans as they do with fellow whites. They start out giving a white politician the benefit of the doubt more than they would a black politician, but it doesn't only hold to politics. A white stranger is less threatening to this type of person than a black stranger is, but they are not hard core racists. If they get to know the Black first, and experience him or her as a solid person, than they are fine with that individual; hence "the Bill Cosby effect", color ceases to be an issue once trust has been gained.

That threshold of trust among white Americans that enables a black American to be elected President in current America is one that at one point Colin Powell seemed to safely cross over, and Obama may now. But Colin Powell was a high profile player for a long time in American politics going back to the Gulf War. He had a long and distinguished career and few questioned his qualifications. An interesting factoid I remember from apartheid South Africa is that the Bill Cosby show was the top rated TV show in South Africa toward the end of apartheid. Bill Crosby passed the "Bill Crosby test" in racist South Africa.

One of my concerns regarding Obama's electability has always been the interplay of race and experience. I have feared that some essentially decent white Democrats who are not yet as comfortable with Black leaders as they are with White ones in general, will defect to McCain and claim that it is McCain's experience that won their vote, not closet racism on their part against Obama. In other words I think there are some white voters who would get behind a Democratic version of Colin Powell, someone like Andrew Young perhaps if he were a little bit younger, who may hesitate to elect a relatively new to the scene African American as President, because he hasn't "proved himself" enough over time to them.

That is a form of racism but not hard core racism. It is more of a double standard, a higher bar for a Black to clear than a White, but not an absolute rejection of all Blacks as a potential president. That is the "Bill Cosby factor" and it isn't the type of thing that can easily be talked about in public. Given what was not said by Halperin in that interview, it upsets me that you seem to be boiling down Hillary Clinton's concerns over OBama's electability into her using racism as an argument to nominate herself instead. Had Clinton wanted to play a hard race card in this contest, you can bet your bottom dollor that those Wright tapes would have found their way to the media before Texas and Ohio voted, it was all or nothing for Hillary at that point - she was at the point of elimination.

[Justitia]

66. Where in your analysis is the 'Hatred Of All Things Clinton' factor? Are you ignoring it?

That is a serious question.

If you don't think that is a very significant factor for both Republicans AND Democrats, you are kidding yourself.

Also, what about the people who will never vote for a woman as Commander In Chief?
That is also a very significant factor I don't see mentioned at all.

I think you are wearing blinders if you don't consider those two subjects as significant handicaps.

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. I wasn't arguing the relative electability cases for both with my post

I was responding to the OP which spun an interview, that said nothing of the sort, into Hillary claiming that Obama can't be elected because he is a Black Man.

Both Clinton and Obama have strengths and weaknesses as candidates. Regarding the matter of a woman as Commander in Chief, I have long suspected that Hillary Clinton has cultivated an image of being tough to help counter a concern about a woman being strong enough to be CIC. I think she has done well in that regard, but probably it has hurt her "likability" doing so. That is a real way in which she comes up against and has to counter prejudice on gender lines. We know Obama has to counter prejudice on racial lines.

[eridani]

148. Bill Clinton did not match up very well with Bush Senior on experience, now, did he?

Same age as Obama in 1992, no?

[K Gardner]

61. There are no words for how disgusting she is. None.

[workinclasszero]

62. Despicable. Its obvious why Limbaugh and other racist rethugs

embrace Hilly.

Dirty birds of a feather....

DLC'ers like the Clinton's are rethug lite.

[kevinmc]

67. Halperin also thinks Drudge is a Genius .... I wouldn't put a lot of trust ....

in anything Halperin said ..... he writes and reports for his own agenda. I wouldn't doubt he's for McCain.

[Barack_America]

69. Sounds suspiciously like what RENDELL said...

That Obama can't win PA because many Pennsylvanians won't vote for a black man.

Guess he either didn't get the memo to discuss this only "behind the scenes" or he just didn't notice that video camera in the room. Lol. What an idiot.

But for both he and Hillary, the most insulting bit about this is their obvious views of us, the voters, and our country.

Remind me why I should vote for a politician who believes that our country is hopelessly racist and is willing to use that perceived fact for their own political gain?

It's disgusting.

ETA: Oops, just noticed that somebody else already pointed this out.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5339443&mesg_id=5339593

[ampad]

71. I'm telling you as a black person

that if this video get around to the black community this could spell trouble for the Dem party if she were to win. This is no threat, this is the honest truth. I kind of wished this would of stayed under wraps even though I understand the importance of it getting out. We cannot afford another Bush in the White House aka John McCain.

[Enrique]

90. I hope no one posts the video on the Black Internet

:scared:

[ampad]

95. You can kiss my black ass

I'm gonna go post it on the black internets right now. Now go tell your girl to stop hoping that racism is going to win this thing for her while she is playing up the fake sexism. I cannot wait for her sorry ass to finally lose this race then some of you go crawl back under the fucking rocks you came from.

[Enrique]

98. if Obama wins I'll be happy for Obama supporters

including you, my friend.

[ampad]

101. Which is why I said I wished this video did not exist

I would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat even if she truly thought racism was going to win this for her, she would still get my vote. I'm not sure some of my family members would if they were to see this. Sorry for going off.

[Enrique]

124. no problem

:pals:

[Raffi Ella]

74. .

:eyes:

[still_one]

80. I question Hillary's mental stability, especially after lying about Bosnia on 4 seperate occasions

That represents a serious character flaw. This was not just a factor of puffing up ones record

[ampad]

99. A serious character flaw among other things

When I saw her interview with Gretha I got the impression that she was not quite "there" Could be all the campaigning but I think her lies and the fact that she know she has no chance of winning is finally taking a toll on her.

[knixphan]

81. Totally blazing saddles.

[futureliveshere]

84. OUCH!!! This is tragic if true. One candidate asks to move beyond race AND gender and the other....

How much more of this are we going to be subjected to? This is SSSOOOO pathetic. (If true)

[SeaLyons]

87. ..

:crazy:

[cali]

91. Yes, I'm sure it does leave you without a cogent response

It completely fits the pattern she's laid down.

[ampad]

96. What do you expect Cali

I swear some of them are fucking ignorant as all get out. Who wants a president that cannot win on their own merits but instead relies on hate. The last time we got that well lets see......... that would be Bush and the hate for the gay community. I'm sure some of them will vote for McCain because some of them are far from progressive. Guessing from the responses you got from some of them on this thread I'm starting to wonder if most of them are even old enough to vote.

[SeaLyons]

100. ...

Give it a rest, Cali.

[Willo]

97. Well, I'm glad it's out

now it can be dealt with head on. Although this is was not exactly right out of the horse's mouth.

Hillary is living and trapped in a mental time warp OR truly believes that she is not, but most of the world is.
It helps explain her many contradictions.

She lacks understanding about how widely and quickly information is accessed and disseminated today. By operating as if each state is isolated from getting information as it occurs, well in advance of her arrivals.

She ignores and discounts America's many advancements in race, age, sex, then operates to set these advancements back.

[Kokonoe]

103. Times are changing

I believe the leaders of this country chose Hillary before the whole nomination thingy started.
Nobody over 60, believes a black man can win, and they know that from experience.
Hillary may have chosen Obama as the front runner herself, because there is no way she could lose.

Meanwhile all other voices were marginalized to dry up their funding and drop them out early.

But this is 2008, and it not going to work.

[ginnyinWI]

104. if being black makes it harder to win--

--and you could argue that it does--then this is an ideal time for it to happen for the first time.

We area at the end of two terms of a bad Repub administration. People are economically depressed, totally dissatisfied with the state of the country. What better time for a bi-racial candidate to be elected--not because of his race but in spite of it. He's got what it takes and then some--has bested the competition during the primaries--but even somewhat bigoted people will vote for him because they're hungry for change.

[dogday]

107. Are we talking about Conservative Mark Halperin?

The one who shilled for Rove when his new book came out?


The one who writes this about Obama?


Time's Halperin Ignores Obama's Liberal Record, Sees 'Centrist'

Ignoring National Journal's recent finding that Barack Obama had the most liberal voting record in the U.S. Senate in 2007, Time Magazine's senior political analyst Mark Halperin, appearing on Thursday's American Morning on CNN, claimed that both Obama and John McCain were "centrists" as he explained New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg's recent decision not to run for President. Citing Bloomberg's intent to run only if both major parties nominated extreme candidates, Halperin explained: "He ended up with two guys who are centrists." (Transcript follows)


Since when did we start posting conservative opinion here? I am totally confused...

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2008/03/02/times-halperin-ignores-obamas-liberal-record-sees-centrist

[cali]

109. Prove he's a conservative.

I have never ever posted NewsMax or Dick Morris or Worldnutdaily or any "conservative". I have no idea what Halperin is, and neither do you. Some people claim he's a big Hill supporter. Others that he's a conservative. He writes for Time and comments for ABC, I believe. He is NOT identified as a conservative the way Krauthammer and others are.

[dogday]

110. He shilled for Roves new book

You want that link Cali... He was head of ABC news division... He is most conservative.. I am not making this up... Do some homework and get back to me....

Let's start with these links...



ABC's Halperin told O'Reilly and Hannity his network will "prove to conservatives that we understand their grievances," and "explain to people what Nancy Pelosi's liberal views are like"

Appearing on the October 23 broadcast of Fox News host Sean Hannity's nationally syndicated radio program and on the October 24 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, ABC News political director Mark Halperin claimed that the "old liberal media" -- the broadcast networks, CNN, and major newspapers -- are "too focused on being more favorable to Nancy Pelosi , say, than Newt Gingrich ." Halperin told Fox News host Bill O'Reilly that ABC and the rest of the "old liberal media" have "a chance in these last two weeks" before the midterm elections "to prove to conservatives that we understand their grievances," and that "e should use this last two weeks as an opportunity to help rebuild our reputation with half the country." He added: " failing of the press is not doing enough to explain to people what Nancy Pelosi's liberal views are like." Halperin made a point of distinguishing ABC from the rest of the "old liberal media" during his appearance of The Sean Hannity Show, however, stating: "I'm proud of where I work, where we understand that we've got to not be liberal, we've got to not be perceived as liberal."





http://mediamatters.org/items/200610250012

[cali]

114. People shill for books they may or may not agree with

all the time. Halperin has never identified himself as a conservative, and nor has any other credible source. Find a quote from him where he says he's a conservative-then get back to me.

[dogday]

116. Read above again

He is conservative... You are welcomed to use what is his opinion... However where are the actual quotes from this article? Did you read what he said about Obama not being liberal but Centrist?

[BenDavid]

108. Gee, not a damn quote in the entire article. But then again is this

not the way you obama folks have been prissing about here when the popular vote in some states have gone to hrc and then you all shout that obama has won the caucus i e texas, nevada....

[cali]

111. bwahahaha

coming from YOU with the stuff you spew, that's quite amusing. And Obama is winning the popular vote. Period.

[marshall]

113. The ever elusive cracker vote...

She can't be seen with them in public, but she craves their vote.

[Kokonoe]

120. The nicest thing I can say for her benefit is

She wants to steal the fellow McCain cracker vote

McCain is her fellow during the primary season,
I can't wait for the break up,

I never had Text with that Woman!1!

[joshcryer]

115. Dispicible.

[scheming daemons]

149. I agree.... Hillary *IS* despicable....

...

[MethuenProgressive]

117. The OP's headline is false. Is race baiting, is flame baiting, and is False.

No wonder the DUbamas gave it 30 recs.
The text provided proves the headline false.

[cali]

118. none so blind as those that will not see

the text aligns with the headline. Hilly is playing the race card yet again. Only hillbots refuse to see that.

[Enrique]

123. no one is discussing Halperin's comments

they're just reacting to the headline and expressing outrage at Hillary.

I think his comments are interesting although I'm skeptical of whether Halperin is honest and whether his analysis is correct.

[Willo]

127. What am I missing here? I used the link to the Daily Kos

and watched the video.

Not speaking for others, but in my comment I took into account that Hillary did not say this directly.

I don't know the nuances of how a person is classified as a conservative, democrat, republican, independent, et al., and frankly, I really don't want to become a scholar in pigeonholing people into yet more boxes.

I don't think I fit the troll or sock puppet boxes. I do fit the black urban, new to DU, computer-literate, non-latte, athletic f/k/a tomboy, not to knowledgeable on politics or the parties, Obama-voting, woman boxes.

It is obvious to me that Hillary can't win. Knowledgable DUers have shown numbers to prove it. Knowledgeable DUers have shown me that my vote is only the first step in the process. That the All-Star weekend as usual, may become a mob-rioting, free-for-all a/k/a
brokered convention. I take my humble roll as student in these areas.

Without all those boxes and I am free to HEAR WHAT PEOPLE SAY and compare it to WHAT THEY DO AND HAVE DONE.

What I've heard on that video was a very plausible explanation of Hillary Clinton's intent at the convention. An explanation, that fits the script, like no one has been able to provide to date.

[bigtree]

128. It's just you and Halperin who are asserting that these are Hillary's views

But halperin says, "What she's hoping, although she wouldn't say this to me . . ."

He's talking out of his ass. I've never heard this line or what you're premising in this thread, from Hillary Clinton, and neither has he.

This is slippery politics. Innuendo and insinuation from a second-third hand account of what someone says Hillary Clinton believes. What a crock.

[Willo]

129. Thank you for answering me Bigtree... I respect your posts on DU

I'm not trying to spread a bad rumor. I try not to do that.
I agree it's slippery, but I don't see what else she has to offer the SDs. This makes sense.
I'll drop it until she slips and speaks.

[Cha]

137. "She" doesn't think anything of the damn sort..she..

is reaching down in her kitchen sink garbage disposal and coming up with more hilary scum.

mark halperin was one of the people who said Edwards was going to endorse hilary.

[VotesForWomen]

143. doesn't make sense; hill's grasp of history is good enough that she knows the odds favor a black man

becoming president before a woman of any color. not saying she would like that fact, but she knows it, so i can't see her saying 'the black guy can't win.'

[Scurrilous]

145. K & R

:thumbsup:

[bevoette]

147. this typical white person thinks she's dispicable and she makes me sick (nt)