Huffington Post: The Top 10 Myths Keeping Hillary In The Race

[Hissyspit]

http://www.alternet.org/election08/80870

The Top 10 Myths Keeping Hillary in the Race

By Chip Collis, Huffington Post. Posted April 1, 2008.

Here are ten enduring, kudzu-like myths about the state of the Democratic nomination race, with the debunking they sorely need.

I have noted a number of myths suggesting Hillary should stay in the race. Here are ten enduring, kudzu-like myths, with the debunking they sorely need.

Myth: This race is tied.

No, actually, it's not. Obama has the lead in number of states won, in pledged delegates and in overall delegates. Nothing will happen in the remaining primaries to substantially change that. As to the one thing Hillary does lead in, superdelegates, her quickly shrinking margin is among DNC personnel only. When you look at the elected superdelegates, Congressman, Senators and Governors (i.e. people who actually work with both Obama and Clinton) Obama leads there, too.

Myth: Okay, the popular vote is tied.

There are people who claim that because of the 3% separation, that Obama's lead in the popular vote is a "statistical tie." This is a myth because, when you can actually count things, there's no need of statistics and no such thing as a margin of error. The popular vote is not an estimate based on a sampling, like a poll. Like the general election, there are winners and losers and, so far, Obama is the winner.

- snip -

Myth: But if we did do it like the Electoral College, that proves Hillary is more electable than Obama, because of states like California.

This is perhaps the saddest little myth of all. It's ridiculous to suggest that Obama will lose New York and California to McCain because Clinton won them in the primaries. No, come November, those states will join with Obama's Illinois to provide 40% of the electors necessary for him to win.

Myth: Very well, then, Mr. Smarty-Math. But if we counted Michigan and Florida, then Hillary would be winning!

Nooo, she wouldn't. The margin would depend on how you allocate the delegates, but Obama would still be ahead. And he'd still be about 100,000 ahead in the popular vote, too, despite not even being on the ballot in Michigan. However, it would enhance Hillary's chances of catching up in the remaining races.

- snip -

Myth: If they don't get seated until the convention but a nominee is selected before these poor people get counted then these states are disenfranchised.

There are two ways to debunk this myth: semantically and practically. The first is based on the word "disenfranchised:" these people have not been deprived of their right to vote. Through the actions of their states, their votes don't impact the outcome. Now, you may say that that is specious semantics (Myth: I do say that!) but practically speaking, this is the usual effect of the nominating process, anyway. All of the Republican primaries since McCain clinched the nomination have been meaningless, but those voters are not disenfranchised.

MORE

[K Gardner]

1. Its been a fairy tale for some time now. These are memes we have to put up with here daily.

[UALRBSofL]

23. So when did DU Underground become Obama Underground?

Lots of memes on DU

[Ken Burch]

30. Since when did LGBT voters accept the delusion that HRC was on your side?

DOMA AND DADT prove she doesn't care about you. A stupid speaker at one rally is trivial compared to actual policy.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

46. DU is just getting behind the best person for the job. ...n/t

[Connonym]

49. When Obama became our de facto candidate

and in my mind the minute Hillary betrayed the Democratic party by publicly stating that the Republican candidate was qualified and Obama is not. That one was a deal breaker for me. In the extremely unlikely event that somehow she does end up being the Democratic candidate I will vote for her only because I believe that in the end having the Democratic party in power is far more important than who that Democrat is.

I keep vowing to stay the hell out of his cluster fuck in here but I keep getting sucked back in. I will be so fucking relieved when the convention is over and the bickering ends.

[peace frog]

52. AMEN to that

Well said.

[jeff30997]

2. K&R

Thanks for the infos.

[C_U_L8R]

3. No fooling.

The Clintonarians are really something....
do they really believe their own bullshit??

[JayFredMuggs]

4. Sadly, most of them do.

Worse, still, so does Hillary.

[liberaldem4ever]

5. K & R!! Thanks for the post

That sort of dispels the illusions that the MSM keeps saying constantly on cable news.

[flyarm]

6. Obama's Other Nine Exaggerations

Obama's Other Nine Exaggerations

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/30/231735/348

Obama's Other Nine Exaggerations
By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sun Mar 30,
Law Professor Ann Althouse examines the enduring flap over whether Barack Obama really was a law professor. (More on that at the end of this post.)

She makes a more important point-- that we shouldn't forget the other 9 exaggerations raised by the Clinton campaign.

1. Obama claimed credit for nuclear leak legislation that never passed.
2. Obama misspoke about his being conceived because of Selma.
3. Sen. Obama took too much credit for his community organizing efforts.
4. Obama's assertion that nobody had indications Rezko was engaging in wrongdoing 'strains credulity.' "
5. Obama was forced to revise his assertion that lobbyists 'won't work in my White House.'
6. 'Selective, embellished and out-of-context quotes from newspapers pump up Obama's health plan.'
7. Sen. Obama said 'I passed a law that put Illinois on a path to universal coverage,' but Obama health care legislation merely set up a task force.
8. 'Obama…seemed to exaggerate the legislative progress he made' on ethics reform.
9. Obama drastically overstated Kansas tornado deaths during campaign appearance.


http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/1/02019/83931

Obama's Liberal Survey: Did He or Didn't, Does He or Doesn't He?
By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 11:20:19 PM EST
Tags: Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags) Share This:
One of the complaints I've had with Barack Obama is the difficulty trying to pin him down on issues. His positions too often seem to shift over time.

Politico has a doozy today. Remember the questionnaire that Obama submitted -- the one where he later said he didn't mean some of the answers, but a staffer had filled it out incorrectly?

Turns out, the questionnaire has turned up, with his handwriting on it. There's the issue of parental notification for abortions. But to me, its the ones on the death penalty and gun control that stand out.

snip:

Late last year, in response to a Politico story about Obama’s answers to the original questionnaire, his aides said he “never saw or approved” the questionnaire. They asserted the responses were filled out by a campaign aide who “unintentionally mischaracterize his position.”

[druidity33]

13. did you know

That those "exaggerations" were first posted on HRC's website?

That since then they have retracted the "law professor exaggeration" because the school corrected the media to say that he was a Professor?

as for the others, most of them are he said she said type of stuff. I note that on HRC's website they do not offer links to the newspaper articles that have been cited. Many of the critique points are based on phrases like, "Obama… seemed to exaggerate the legislative progress he made" or "Obama's assertion that nobody had indications Rezko was engaging in wrongdoing strains credulity"... these are not so subtly disguised opinion pieces they are quoting.


Sorry, i like Hil, but to compare these minor tidbits to the outright lies HRC has been telling re: Bosnia, FL and MI, NAFTA, etc. is a little absurd.

C'mon, let's get real here...

[JayFredMuggs]

27. Brilliant post

[L0oniX]

32. Word up. n/t

[jettison]

15. I don't understand

What do those exaggerations, even assuming that some are factual, have to do with any of the points made in the article?

If someone yells "fire!" in a crowded theater, do you attempt to stop everyone from exiting so you might garner some sympathy for your hangnail? The two have nothing to do with each other. The statistics and the math stand out there like the giant White elephant that most Hillary supporters don't want to acknowledge. They just keep directing us to the strange looking, rather large hoof prints left on the floor, assuming that someone must have made a mess somewhere and just forgotten to tiddy things up.

It's gone well past denial for some folks. Everyone loves a fighter, but the Monty Python "It's just a flesh wound" cartoons that were circulating even a month ago look more poignant each day.

[JayFredMuggs]

28. Good question

If someone yells "fire!" in a crowded theater, do you attempt to stop everyone from exiting so you might garner some sympathy for your hangnail?

Hillary would.

[FatDave]

29. "Put on a path" vs. "set up a task force"

Now technically speaking, isn't setting up a task force the first steps toward accomplishing a goal? Could it then not be said that he had "put Illinois on a path toward" said goal?

Sure, you have to parse it carefully to defend it, but you have to parse it just as carefully to decry it. It's actually pretty meaningless political mumbo jumbo, which is why you can read pretty much whatever you want into it. Regardless, phrases like "put on a path" have never been concretely defined to mean anything specific.

But you know what? I'll say he was using wording more extravagant than the actual achievement warranted. Maybe he was trying to make it sound like a bigger deal than it was. And in that sense the term "exaggeration" fits.

However, there's another way to use the term "exaggerate", as in outright lying. This is what a timid media does because they are afraid to call a lie a lie. They've gotten used to it after 8 years of not reporting Bush's bullshit. They use words like "exaggerated" or "misled" but what they really mean is "lied".

So I'll admit that the argument could be made that Obama exaggerated this point. Maybe even some others. I can see that you could argue that, and though I could parse his words just as carefully to prove that no, by the letter, nothing he said was untrue (see my first sentence of this post), nobody would be able to win that argument. It would come down to "I think he lied"/"Well I think he didn't". I believe somebody upthread called it "he said/she said crap".

But Hillary's exaggerations are actually "exaggerations". She said Obama wanted he to drop out of the race, when actually he's said no such thing, and in fact said the opposite. That's a lie. Some of his supporters may have said she should drop out, but Obama (and to my knowledge no one officially connected to his campaign) said anything close.

Hillary also had the whole sniper fire thing. Again, blatantly, provably false and 180 degrees from what she said. It's ridiculous that you would try to compare things that are at worst minor exaggerations to Hillary's repeated jawdroppers.

I mean seriously, you see the difference, right? If you're consciously trying to confuse us with spin, that's one thing. I'll consider that fair game. But I worry that some of you actually believe the nonsense you spout.

[druidity33]

50. self-delete

oops, replied to wrong post... sorry

[Pappy]

54. I'm not sure where you get your facts, but Obama is way better than Hillary

Obama is going to bring about real change in Washington, he just has to much momentum at this point to stop. Hillary is so divisive, look at all the problems she has already caused in her own party. She just can't win, plain and simple.

[IronLionZion]

55. Nothing to do with anything, let alone the OP, spoken like a true Hillbot.

all up in it loving it strong!

[quantass]

7. kick

[doublethink]

8. Big K&R.

:kick:

[Coexist]

9. kick!

[phrigndumass]

10. Rec'd ... thanks for the link to the article, Hissyspit!

Good read ...

:hi:

[NashVegas]

11. Wow, Talk About Building Up Straw Men ...

[Kurovski]

12. K&R. (nt)

[GoneOffShore]

14. Kicking this

:kick:

[cliffordu]

16. Massive K&R !!!!!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[berni_mccoy]

17. K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R!

[DerekJ]

18. Best one of them all

Myth: Whatever! Hillary can still win! I know she can! She and her 37% positive rating will sweep through the remaining primaries and Michigan and Florida, winning 70% of everything and superdelegates will flock to her banner and Barack Obama will personally nominate her at the Convention and John McCain will give up and George Bush will even quit early so she can take over and... and... and... can I have a glass of water?


Yes, and you should lie down, too.



LOOOOL
:rofl:

[DerekJ]

22. k

[odelisk8]

19. kick

about says it all, methinks...

[Scurrilous]

20. K & R

:thumbsup:

[samsingh]

21. kick

[Hutzpa]

24. K&R

:kick:

[redqueen]

25. Well done.

:)

[UALRBSofL]

26. OP I live in Florida and I feel disenfranchised

Do I not count? Also, where in the bylaws does it say the superdelegates must endorse the person with the most seated delegates and popular vote. If that were the case then we sure don't need superdelegates. However, I wont hold it against ya for posting the article. :loveya:

[L0oniX]

31. I live in Floridah and I knew it wasn't worth going out to vote because the repukes in control....

here moved up the campaign startup date which I knew would go against the DNC rules. This was just another repuke dirty trick. The Floridah repukes are a bunch of stinking varmints!

[polichick]

33. I live in PA - have I not counted every cycle but this one?? :)

[awoke_in_2003]

35. I have an unrelated question for you

Is your log in name an acronym? Can I ask what it stands for? And since this is GD:P , i must say I am asking only out or curiosity, not to take any jabs:hi:

[UALRBSofL]

43. awoke, that's funny you ask that, your the second person to ask

One time someone tried to figure out what it meant on bidtopia. She posted something like U-AL-R-BS(bull shit)-Liars. UALRBSofL is just an abbreviation for University Arkansas Little Rock Bowen School of Law. :)

[awoke_in_2003]

48. Cool, thanks for answering...

although U-AL-R-BS is funny. In case you wander about my name (probably not), I was a die hard conservative until the illegal invasion of Iraq woke me up. Started questioning all my beliefs (found out I was much more liberal than I ever thought). Couldn't align myself with a party that associated itself so closely with the religious rigth (I am an atheist), denied basic civil rights to homosexuals (my sister is a lesbian), and basically just spit on people who didn't have some of the advantages some of us do.

[RememberWellstone]

34. Chipper is a myth.

What an idiot. Re-defining the word disenfranchise? Right.

[DemVet]

36. They forgot...

...that Barry can't win the delegate race before the convention either.

[Cha]

37. "The Saddest Myth of All" "Kudzu like myths"!

Myth: But if we did do it like the Electoral College, that proves Hillary is more electable than Obama, because of states like California.

This is perhaps the saddest little myth of all. It's ridiculous to suggest that Obama will lose New York and California to McCain because Clinton won them in the primaries. No, come November, those states will join with Obama's Illinois to provide 40% of the electors necessary for him to win.

hilary and the icks insult our intelligence..who does she think she's talking to? Ostriches?

[newben]

38. Another Myth debunked...

Rocky Balboa didn't win. He only succeeded in going to distance to prove something to himself. Now that Hillary is comparing herself to Rocky, it begs the question, what is she trying to prove?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDo0AeQjBgI

[Hissyspit]

47. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[JuniperLea]

39. Myth... and GOP meme...

Hillary should drop out for the good of the party.





Bullshit.

[D23MIURG23]

40. The end of this column is priceless...

Myth: Whatever! Hillary can still win! I know she can! She and her 37% positive rating will sweep through the remaining primaries and Michigan and Florida, winning 70% of everything and superdelegates will flock to her banner and Barack Obama will personally nominate her at the Convention and John McCain will give up and George Bush will even quit early so she can take over and... and... and... can I have a glass of water?


Yes, and you should lie down, too.


:rofl:

[mcollier]

41. McCain is no leader

He has to have Joe Leiberman guide and correct him through a warped foreign policy lecture as if we haven't heard the same bullshit for George "The Failure" Bush over and over again for years now... Why in the hell would any American want to stand with Bush is beyond me... McCain is more of the same, enough with the failed policies, enough with the wars, enough with lack of domestic focus...

Obama is a leader we can believe in.

Visit www.barackobama.com

[D23MIURG23]

42. I support Obama.

I'm not sure how you read support for McCain into the end of that column, but that wasn't my intent, and I don't think it was the author's intent either.

I saw the passage as a caricature of the mantra a lot of Hillary people are spouting these days.



In any case welcome to the DU.

:hi:

[knixphan]

44. Kickit

[Alcibiades]

45. Myth #11: Clinton can win in the "big states" we need to win

A bizarre claim, given that our entire system of selecting a president is based on disadvantaging the big states. Because votes in the electoral college are apportioned according to number of folks in Congress, and because small states are over-represented in Congress thanks to the "Great Compromise" we learned about in grade school, winning only the big states is actually a losing strategy for any political party using a system like ours.

The winning strategy is to go for the small states, just as the Republicans do every four years.

[Perry Logan]

51. Is HuffPo the "Bitch about Hillary News," or what?

I hope I can start reading it again after the primaries.

[bow-tie]

53. The only thing that would

make this fair is if the repubs that voted for Clinton via pig-lips is if they couldn't vote twice. I wonder what the actual count is of the pubs that crossed over?

[TBF]

56. good point - I'd also like to know why they crossed over

I would imagine most did it to vote for the candidate they thought was weakest so McCain would have an easier time. However, I was in line with a 70-yr old woman who came & waited in line to vote twice for Obama because she just "couldn't bear the thought of Hilary in the White House". I'm not a Hillary fan either so we actually had quite a long chat. She is voting for McCain, of course, but he had the nomination locked by Texas so she came out to vote for her second choice.

[Connonym]

57. The cross over vote must be as old as time

because I remember hearing my dad talk about it all the way back when Carter was running. On the one hand I can see how it would be quite effective, if your candidate has the nomination locked up why not try to stack the deck to get the least likely candidate on the other side. It's sleazy but I think sleazy is probably a synonym for republican in most languages.