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Hillary thinks America won't elect a black man for President

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:43 AM
Original message
Hillary thinks America won't elect a black man for President
What Hillary's Thinking

In this video clip from Fox, Time's Mark Halperin argues that Hillary Clinton honestly believes Obama can't be elected, in part for "sensitive" reasons she can't explicitly state--which I take to mean race--and that she is duty bound to "stop" him from getting the nomination. Halperin says this view is based on his conversations with Hillary and her advisors.

Not a shocking theory but a more direct articulation than I'd heard previously.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/03/31/what-hillary-s-thinking.aspx

Now I know what all you Hillary people are saying when you talk about him not being electable.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Unelectable" is code for "black". Which is funny, since he's been
winning more elections, with more votes than any Dem primary candidate in history.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Well Fast Eddie Rendell already came out and said
what she won't. They know the Willie Horton illiterate scary black criminal boogieman jungle bunny ape eyeing and lusting after and raping the white woman seems to still bring out the best in Americans. :sarcasm:

:eyes:
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Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Exactly.
I honestly don't know how the so-called "Bradley Effect" will reveal itself in November. I don't care, though. Obama is right for the country, even if America is too stupid to realize it.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Agree...
Edited on Tue Apr-01-08 12:12 PM by BumRushDaShow
I think people are waking up and have had it with Bushco and Reaganomics. The economy of the world is destroyed and so many countries have been destabilized thanks to the top fraction of a % of the population who don't even see "black" or "white" but "green" - $$$$. It's time to get America's house in order.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. If only democrats were voting in the GE
you'd have a point.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. "which I take to mean race"
well okay then, that settles it :crazy:
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. Umm.. I can't watch, but if it's from Fox, can't we just ignore it?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Fox is the most reliable, after all
according to her own campaign.

:shrug:
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Mags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Unelectable is code for woman
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Unelectable is code for divisive person who Repukes hate.
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. it's the oligarchy stupid! n/t
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ericgtr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm sorry but the words "Hillary Clinton" and "honestly" should never be used in the same sentence
I mean, really, come on now haven't we already established this?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. How is this anything other than race baiting?
Honestly now.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. What if she's right? But does that mean she has a better chance?
this assumes they are equally good candidates. are they???

:banghead:
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. Mmmmm. Maybe not. But we KNOW that we won't elect a woman.
I figured that out from the Idaho caucus results.
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. She called him the N word in the Clinton fashion.
It all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. Another Race baiting thread by an Obama follower.
"Now I know what all you Hillary people are saying when you talk about him not being electable."

Your headline is as false as your conclusion.
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not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. look ...white people
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's not about race, it's about all the things you don't know

about BO. Unlike you, and apparently unlike Howard Dean and the DNC, candidates normally vet each other, find out what is in their pasts that they've tried to hide.

The Gore campaign, for example, knew about Bush's DUI, but chose not to release the info, not being into Rovian tricks. Of course they got blamed when someone else released it, just the way HRC gets blamed by obamamaniacs for every piece of dirt that comes out about BO.

The Clinton campaign probably should release all that they have on Obama but I don't think they will because they don't want to destroy the party. HRC would never have thrown her grandmother under the bus while trying to explain how she sat listening to a man preach hate for twenty years.

You can bet your ass the GOP is salivating at the thought of all they have to use against Obama.

Look up Emil Jones, Jr., find out how Obama "built his record" in the state senate. Good old dirty Chicago politics. And there's a lot more you don't know about BO or think he will somehow magically overcome.

If Obama is the Dem nominee, McCain will win in a landslide.

Wake up to reality.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. And so where is all this smear stuff
that you allegedly have that supposedly hasn't been released by a desperate losing candidate? Why are you not realizing that Hillary Clinton will be forever attached to Bill Clinton's gutter coattails and mistresses? Look at what Chelsea is already going through on the trail. You think that magically, the GOP will forget Monica Lewinsky's blue dress when Clinton's own supporters have started harassing her daughter about the woman? You think that Rash Limpballs is going to suddenly give her a pass?

:rofl:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Do your own research, I'm not your assistant. nt
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. That is not a fair charge. You are filling in the blanks in a way
that casts Clinton in the worst light possible. In a way that is worse than twisting words, since you assert a speculative premise that by definition can't be disproved since it is based on your own subjective read.

One of Clinton's prime arguments all year has been that Obama won't match up well against McCain on experience, that he doesn't know world leaders, that he hasn't been involved first hand in national security matters. Many people here reject her argument, but it is the basis of her 3:00 AM phone call ad. She thinks Obama won't match up against McCain on national security, and that Republicans always win based on national security. That is an electability argument and it has nothing to do with race.

Clinton has also made a campaign issue out of her being tough enough to take on the National Republican Party attack machine and win. She makes a case that Obama has never faced a national Republican Party determined to take him down before, and raises doubts that he can handle that type of attack. That is an electability argument and it has nothing to do with race.

Clinton also has claimed that Obama has never really been vetted before, that we don't know what issues may be in his closet and how well he can handle them when they are trotted out. Chicago is Democratic machine politics and so far only his Rezko connection is being looked at, and only half way into this campaign did the media start paying attention. The controversy over Rev. Wright almost didn't come up during the nomination campaign either. Clinton claims that it is risky to run someone for President who has not been politically vetted. That is an electability argumement and it has nothing to do with race.

Not all Democrats buy those electability arguments regarding Obama, some do and some don't. But to reduce it all to Clinton thinks Obama can't win because he is a Black man is simply not fair, and it actually racializes the contest to claim that any concern about Obama's electability begins and ends with race. Hillary Clinton has been pushing the three arguments I listed above however, that is how she campaigns against Obama's electability.

Until we all got caught up in partisan passions around our specific candidates, let's say two years ago, no one at DU would have argued that racism is completely dead in America, or that it wasn't a factor in determining some political races. We debated that about Harold Ford Jr and his Senate run for example. We also wondered whether anti-semitism would beat Russ Feingold if he ran for President. Nowadays we talk about whether Hillary Clinton will lose the Democratic hold on the African American vote if we nominate her instead of Obama, and whether or not we will lose to McCain because of it. Somehow it is fine to talk about whether we will bleed black votes to McCain (or more likely have them stay home) but it is taboo to ponder whether Obama could lose some white votes to McCain?

I guarentee you that Obama's own campaign tacticians have very frank and sober conversations about how many white votes he is likely to lose due to racism, how to minimize that, and how to offset those losses by bringing in new younger white voters and increase minority turnout for him. His team searchs for a winning formular, and they are doing a fine job at it, but they have their eyes open to reality. The vast majority of Clinton's supporters are not racial bigots, but it is safe to say that the vast majority of racial bigots won't be supporting Obama.

I started writing about this over a year ago. I dubbed the interplay between experience and race as "the Bill Cosby" factor. There are millions of white Americans who do not yet have the same base line comfort level with African Americans as they do with fellow whites. They start out giving a white politician the benefit of the doubt more than they would a black politician, but it doesn't only hold to politics. A white stranger is less threatening to this type of person than a black stranger is, but they are not hard core racists. If they get to know the Black first, and experience him or her as a solid person, than they are fine with that individual; hence "the Bill Cosby effect", color ceases to be an issue once trust has been gained.

That threshold of trust among white Americans that enables a black American to be elected President in current America is one that at one point Colin Powell seemed to safely cross over, and Obama may now. But Colin Powell was a high profile player for a long time in American politics going back to the Gulf War. He had a long and distinguished career and few questioned his qualifications. An interesting factoid I remember from apartheid South Africa is that the Bill Cosby show was the top rated TV show in South Africa toward the end of apartheid. Bill Crosby passed the "Bill Crosby test" in racist South Africa.

One of my concerns regarding Obama's electability has always been the interplay of race and experience. I have feared that some essentially decent white Democrats who are not yet as comfortable with Black leaders as they are with White ones in general, will defect to McCain and claim that it is McCain's experience that won their vote, not closet racism on their part against Obama. In other words I think there are some white voters who would get behind a Democratic version of Colin Powell, someone like Andrew Young perhaps if he were a little bit younger, who may hesitate to elect a relatively new to the scene African American as President, because he hasn't "proved himself" enough over time to them.

That is a form of racism but not hard core racism. It is more of a double standard, a higher bar for a Black to clear than a White, but not an absolute rejection of all Blacks as a potential president. That is the "Bill Cosby factor" and it isn't the type of thing that can easily be talked about in public. Given what was not said by Halperin in that interview, it upsets me that you seem to be boiling down Hillary Clinton's concerns over OBama's electability into her using racism as an argument to nominate herself instead. Had Clinton wanted to play a hard race card in this contest, you can bet your bottom dollor that those Wright tapes would have found their way to the media before Texas and Ohio voted, it was all or nothing for Hillary at that point - she was at the point of elimination.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Great post, Tom
Remarkable that no one has replied to it, as I type this. Actually it's pathetic. I guarantee if a similarly well reasoned post on Obama's behalf had been crafted, the praise would extend half a scroll.

How can Obama's handlers earn such widespread praise for examining/emphasizing every small state and potential delegate opportunity, without believing they simultaneously haven't explored the race issue, with breakdowns and strategy? It's the type of thing we'll hear about a few years from now, when books are written by mainstays in his staff. No doubt they have specific demographic forecasts, similar to the internal state by state primary predictions. Does anyone really think they guessed those numbers, minus demographic building blocks? So essentially we're outraged at an angle the Obama camp itself has been pondering.

Electability is a grouping of variables. It's no different than sports where many factors are weighed to estimate playoff readiness and vulnerability.

Hillary is a victim of double standard also. I'm certain a small but decisive chunk of voters oppose her while asserting it's due to her personality or her campaign or Clinton fatigue, but -- even if subconsciously -- the actual tipping point is they feel damn threatened by the possibility of a woman in highest office.

Right now it's comfy to link Hillary's failure to public disapproval, that another woman with more gentile personality could have survived if not thrived while seeking the presidency. IMO, that's ignorant bunk. The white male establishment feels so petrified it will conspire to destroy any viable female candidacy for president. Emphasis on viable. No one will feel compelled to ruin a cute candidacy with trickling support. It may take many cycles for my theory to be verified. Once Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm runs for president and is crucified by media bias and pillow patting of her male opponent, we'll look back and say, "whoops, maybe it wasn't Hillary after all."
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do you always jump to conclusions like this? You are basing your assumption
on the impression a reporter got when speaking to a campaign adviser, not an actual statement from the candidate, about Obama being unelectable. Then you put your own interpretation on his impression of that statement to accuse Hillary and her supporters of being racist. That is a pretty convoluted argument.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. Everything is not based on race.
April 29, Scott Rasmussen explained some details of his polls
which Mainstream Media has apparently decided to ignore.

Among Republicans and Independents 56% will not vote for him.
Wright story has had its effects.

The Wright Story is not about race. It is about perceived Anti-Americanism.
and Patriotism. It is about Anti- Israeli and pro-Palestinian views

Obama gave a speech on Race. Wright Story is not about race.
We seem to be talking past each other.

Rasmussen explained that further down in his poll data that the reason
John MCain has moved up is because Obama has lost some Independents
and Obamicans. He said some weeks back Obama was way out there
ahead of MCCain.

If you want to read more go to Fox New, then Hannity and Colmes for
April 29.

I think we can move this country forward if we do not knee-jerkedly
accuse everyone of race. There are many issues to be considered.





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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. oh BS, why does it have to be that? why couldnt it be something other than she is a racist.
you guys are so full of crap.
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