Dean on CNN tonight: "we are not going to bend the rules for either side."

[madfloridian]

Dean had another interview tonight on CNN Election Central with Campbell Brown. The video is not up yet, but I did find the transcript.

He made it clear he was going by the rules.

CNN transcript of Dean and Campbell Brown

They were discussing his call for the superdelegates to come out for someone by July 1. Campbell asked what he could do if they did not.

DEAN: I'm asking them for the sake of their country to do this. We can't afford four more years of George Bush, which is what John McCain is offing us. He's offering us the same policy in Iraq as George Bush, stay there for 100 years, just like Korea, I think is the quote. He's supporting George Bush's tax cuts.

Campbell asks how he thinks superdelegates should vote. He quotes the rules, not his preferences.

BROWN: So, trying to get to that point, what do you think the superdelegates can -- should do, rather? Bottom line this for us. Should they be voting with their states or with their conscience?

DEAN: No, my job, Campbell, is to make sure that the losing candidate who gets 49.8 percent of the vote, which is probably what they are going to get, feels they have been treated fairly. The rules say that superdelegates can do whatever they want. I support the rules, because I am going to support the rules right down all the way through this whole thing.

They discuss FL and MI.

DEAN: I would very much like to have Florida and Michigan seated. Because of the circumstances under which they held their elections, essentially which were not valid elections, they aren't going to be seated the same way that everybody else is.

They can be seated in one of two ways. One, they can be seated by agreement between the two campaigns if there is no clear winner, or, two, they will be seated I suspect by whoever does win the nomination. Whoever wins the nomination will control the credentials committee, which will control the seating. And I strongly believe our nominee is going to want Florida and Michigan in the hall. Under which rules, that will depend. The nominee will set the rules.

She mentions the criticism he is getting for not playing a more active role in bringing things to an end. He is aware of the criticisms.

DEAN: No, my view is that the voters will work it out. And I have to chuckle a little bit. The people who are complaining that I'm not taking a stronger role, when you drill down on that a little, as I have, when they have called me, is, I see (should be SAY..checked with the video) what you mean, is you would like me to be a strong leader and adopt your point of view and then ram it through the DNC. I am going to not going to do that for either side.

There are going to be donors and supporters on both sides that are mad at me. I am going to play this one by the rules, right -- there's this clear set of rules. Everybody knew what the rules were a year-and-a-half ago. Those are the rules that we are going to nominate the next president of the United States under. And we are not going to bend the rules for either side.

And I say thank you, Howard Dean, for that. It will not make you popular with Florida's Democratic leaders (in fact they express disgust with you, daily). But the people are pretty much coming around.

You might even be welcome back in Florida someday if the leaders who got us into this mess will stop stirring up trouble.

Right now the "rules" are what will save our party.

[GarbagemanLB]

1. Thank you Dean!

[keep_it_real]

4. "we are not going to bend the rules for either side" - Go Dean!

Dean said, "Everybody knew what the rules were a year-and-a-half ago..." - which includes Hillary on Florida and Michigan.

[Tellurian]

11. What a disaster!

Dean should stick with what he knows. Dean emeritus of sock-puppetry, is not the way he would want to be remembered. He is way in over his head.

[Patchuli]

15. Poppycock!

Some of us Dems like the rules.

Just saying...

[DBoon]

77. We are the party of laws

and not the party of power at any cost

Could you imagine any republican publicly concerned about fairness and following the rules?

That is the difference between the two parties

[Citizen Kang]

30. Yeah, Dean is a fool

Shame on him for winning back the House and Senate and using a 50-state strategy. What a fool for giving Democrats the majority on Capital Hill. He is such a horrible person, the DNC now out-fundraises the mighty RNC and has a better grassroots effort than the RNC. This guy sucks.

We all know that Hillary and her fans are only about Hillary and not the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Why don't you show us how good Clinton pal Terry MacAllife was as DNC chair. Really won a lot of elections. Great guy, stand up man.

[chimpymustgo]

39. I'm afraid I have to agree, unless he is working furiously behind the scenes. He has not proven any

kind of mettle with this episode. No leadership whatsoever. A real disappointment, in light of the high hopes so many of us had for him.

[xxqqqzme]

48. Yea because we all know, given the

sterling example exhibited over the last 7.4 years, following the rules is sooooo 2001. A true leader bends the rules or even better ignores them completely like....say......Florida & Michigan.

[jettison]

49. leadership

All "leadership" means is that he adopt your point of view. If it were reversed, and if Obama was the projected winner of both states by wide margins, but the votes didn't count, all the Obama folks would be making the same argument, arguing about being disenfranchised, etc.

His leadership has been tremendous. Although spiteful, unwarranted pleas have been tossed his way, he's stood his ground, stuck to the rule book, and hasn't allowed anyone to sway his opinion, and bend the rules. What kind of precedent would it set if he just said "Oh, ok, you guys count." What would all the other states think next time this happened? They'd just hold their primaries any old time they liked and laugh and scoff at the rules.

Consistency. It works with dogs. It works with children. It works with politicians if you have a backbone like Dean. Do you think that Florida will make this mistake next time around? I'm thinking not.

Is it really an accident that the vast majority of Hillary voters want the delegates seated, and yet the majority of Obama supporters do not?

[shadowknows69]

41. Way over his head or not he's the guy in charge

He's being as balanced as he can and that's what the DNC Chair should do. Sorry the rules aren't working out for your candidate but they are the rules.

[On the Road]

44. Actually, I Think Capitualtion to Either Side

would show that he were over his head. I really admire Dean's handling of this.

[David Dunham]

2. The Dem Convention, not the DNC, makes the final decision on seating delegates

[sandnsea]

5. The Presidential candidate controls the Convention

It'll be done the way the candidate wants it done. It always has been.

[terrell9584]

21. Historical Inaccuracy

Until the Kennedy era, the candidates usually weren't decided until the convention, so let's not say it has always been done a certain way when it hasn't

[sandnsea]

22. Yeah, and the people didn't always vote for candidates either

But that's the way we do it now.

[terrell9584]

24. If no candidate has the required delegate totals before it

then the convention will be what decides the nominee and neither campaign will be directing the template.

And I actually don't have a problem with this. Since we instituted the new rules, we've elected two presidents. Both of these presidents had Southern ties. One candidate has Southern ties, but it is not the one that everyone wants to crown, and the fact remains that a Northerner has not won as Democrat since 1960, and that Northerner had the advantage of being Catholic which pretty much guaranteed him a crossover of every Catholic who called themselves Republican.

[sandnsea]

25. Then why bother voting

Why not just let the superdelegates decide it now?

[terrell9584]

26. I never said superdelegates

But the whole thing must be looked at. Quality of wins. Why is it that there is a disparity between caucus results and primary results (and given that primaries more closely resemble real elections, what can we extrapolate.) Also, the chances of what states each candidate might win and which one causes the worse bleed off.

Elections are about winning, we have to put the most electable one out there. I'm beginning to think neither of them will be, but, right now, one seems to be more electable, based on the fact that their base consists of voters that should be with us but that we have lost whereas the others consists of voters we never lose

.

[sandnsea]

28. So the rules matter until you don't like them??

:shrug:

This is an election for delegates, those are the rules. Obama is going to win the delegates. If the vote that the Democratic Party designed in each state matters, then it needs to be respected by the superdelegates. That means Obama will be the nominee. At that point, Hillary will release her delegates. FL & MI will be seated and released for Obama. And this nightmare will finally be over.

[terrell9584]

29. I don't believe that people having a chance to vote is

a nightmare, but then maybe I have a screwy view of politics.

And as for the FL and MI thing.

I would have much more respect for Obama, and might even start to believe in the hype that surrounds him if he would make a big speech and say

"I probably won't win Florida or Michigan in a new primary. I know these are states that are stacked against me. Even though they are, I believe that the will of the people should decide delegates and if this causes me to lose so be it"

Such a statement would be telling the truth. It would also be smart politics, he would win over many doubters doing that. But, he persists in his desire to split them or not count them at all, proving my long held theory that he is not this great hope for America but rather just a politician who talks hope.

If Obama is who people seem to think he is, he will make that speech at some point. If he really is our better angel calling us home.

[sandnsea]

31. Except you want the supers to overturn their vote

So what the hell difference does it make if they vote at all???

As to FL & MI. They knew what they were doing when they did it. There really isn't any fair way to have a revote. Their delegates will be seated for the winner. They always release the pledged delegates to the winner.

It's over. If the votes of the people matter, then the reality is there is no way for Hillary to beat Obama and she needs to admit it, release her delegates, and let this nightmare, yes nightmare, be over.

[jettison]

54. no

That's an impossible argument. Everyone in Florida and Michigan are blaming the Obama camp for the gaffs. It's not his gaffe though...it's their own state's fault. So, many are now skewed in favor of Hillary because of the "you've disenfranchised us" argument, even though this was not his doing.

If they had the elections again, he would receive less of the popular vote then he would have otherwise simply because there is a clear bias against him now in place. Many of the politicians in these states, especially Florida, are openly vilifying him, and blaming him for their own incompetence.

It's not up to Obama to "do the honorable thing". He would be a fool to allow those delegates to be seated now. That's not honorable... that's just suicidal.

[SeaLyons]

59. ..

well said.

:thumbsup:

[JuniperLea]

60. Very well said!

I've been saying for weeks that there's no real reason to select a candidate before the convention. I would be horribly offended and completely ticked off if I were denied a vote in this primary. We are not a lock-step party, and I hope we never will be.

[jettison]

52. right

The caucus results are a shining example of a failed strategy... since Hillary didn't win them. Would anyone on the Hillary side be making this argument if she HAD won them? Why did they not make this argument before the whole process started? Did they just not know enough about caucuses? And if that's true, doesn't that speak more to the incompetence of the Clinton camp?

Perhaps Hillary can spend the next four years perfecting the democratic nomination system so that she has the best chance of winning next time she gets a shot.

This is kind of like a midget playing basketball and then complaining that the rims are too high and that they favor tall people. There are other sports. If you're no good at basketball, and it upsets you so much, then don't play. DO NOT file complaints with the league, trying to get the rules amended so that they're lower the rims to two feet off the ground.

[sandnsea]

3. Good

Just as it should be.

[IndianaGreen]

6. K&R

Keeping fingers crossed that Denver doesn't become a Hillary train wreck.

[Cha]

7. That's all you can do is follow the

rules. Everyone follows the rules but hilary..that big elephant in the room.

[YDogg]

62. why did you call "hilary" a big elephant?

just wonderin'.


"Everyone follows the rules but hilary..that big elephant in the room."

[ekwhite]

8. Good for you Governor Dean! K&R

[Tatiana]

9. I support Howard Dean and his standing up for fairness. Thanks madfloridian. n/t

[bhikkhu]

10. K&R for Dean!

[BenDavid]

12. Dean did us a lot of good in the '06 elections.

but he dropped the ball this time with Michigan and Florida....but I am afraid that Dean with his 25 people chosen for the credentials committee will be more pro obama and anti hrc....for some reason dean has a hatred for the clintons and this could cause a problem at the convention.....

[madfloridian]

14. Please show proof for your assertion that Dean hates the Clintons.

That is a statement that needs some back up.

[Usrename]

13. K&R

:toast:

[meow mix]

16. "The nominee will set the rules."

this is a similar message in the earlier interview too.

[LadyVT]

17. As a Clinton supporter, I completely agree with Dean, here

And I worry for the 49.8% of voters who will not have their candidate as the nominee, and for the Democratic party who may only get 50.2% of the Democratic votes and very, very few other votes, and will, thus, sadly lose. :( I see this as a disaster primary season.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. I remain a Deaniac. Two states Dems wanted to front load the primary

Dean would have made a great president in 2004......

[grantcart]

19. what people don't factor in is that if Dean and the DNC hadn't

enforced the rule then we would have been in Iowa in October.

[anonymous171]

32. I've often wondered whether he would've been a better choice in 2004

After all, he would've beat the shit out of republicans for trying to pull anything remotely similar to the swiftboating they used on Kerry. I guess that's why the media forced him out.

[loveangelc]

20. wake me up when we have a nominee.

[McCamy Taylor]

23. If we get a winner by JUly 1 that will be good. Four months is more than enough for a GE campaign.

People can not focus any longer than that.

[joshcryer]

27. Dean knows that even though the DNC didn't want to represent FL and MI, they have to now.

He's a smart man, even if he allowed the DNC to strip those two states unfairly.

[DemVet]

36. He IS a smart man...

...but he dropped the ball big time with FL and MI and he knows it.

I think he now realizes that the Democratic Electorate of two large are being penalized for the mistakes of a few.

[joshcryer]

38. I don't think he had the full hand in the matter, I think other party heads did it.

In fact Dean is quite soft on the issue of seating or otherwise counting those states, always has been. But if you look at others on the committe like Donna Brazille, it's kinda obvious where they stand with regards to the will of the voters.

Dean isn't the bad guy but he did screw up by allowing such non-sense. But then again he may have had no power in the matter.

[On the Road]

45. What Would Dean Have Done Differently to Prevent This?

Serious question -- I didn't follow all the ins and outs in the early stages. But it takes two to tango, and at that point, FL and MI didn't appear interested in finding a solution.

[joshcryer]

58. He could have done like the GOP did and recognized that the original penality was enough.

Instead he let party insiders like Donna Brazille completely strip those two states of their delegations.

The irony is that the original penality (half delegates cut) will be the compromise in all likelihood.

[WyLoochka]

64. So therefore we should penalize

the other 48 states and their voters, who ALL managed to play by the rules, by ramming the bogus results of FL and MI down our throats?

No way. What has been wrong with our whole political scene is that we have bending the rules for the rule breakers, in all kinds of ways, for 30 fucking years. The people who abide by the rules have been the true victims all along, not the rule breakers.

FL and MI made themselves into rogue states, no one else forced them to break the rules - they did all by themselves and as such should suffer the consequences. Their voters really have one and only one remedy to the chronic fuck-ups (particularly FL)- fire your elected representatives who utterly failed you with their stupid moves to upset the other 48 states. Your wrath should be focused on them - not the rest of us in the other 48 states, nor on Howard Dean, who has himself abided by the rules.

I absolutely loathe Floridians in general now (except for madfl). I gave the Dems down there the benefit of the doubt after the robbery of 2000, but no longer. They have not one real argument with any merit whatsoever in this fiasco they caused themselves. They never learned any lessons of 2000, nor accepted one iota of responsibility to make sure crap pulled by their legislators wouldn't occur again. They did NOTHING. The kept on electing the same crooks over and over and over again. I have no sympathy for them at all.

[joshcryer]

66. That's now how you win over a state.

And certainly not how you unify the party.

[WyLoochka]

69. FL and MI need to think about

how to "win over" the rest of us 48 who abide by the rules.

I think the best way for them to do that is to quit the whining, suck it up and take the consequences they knew about long before participating in the rule breaking.

I am sick of being over the FL barrel. Standing up to these immature, manipulative whiners, instead of caving in to them, is the way to handle them.

Maybe then they will do their jobs and fire their elected reps who are, after all, the ones who got them into this.

Not one person - outside the state of FL is responsible for any of this mess. It belongs to them exclusively.

Shape up Floridians - and elect madfloridian for Governor, or at least the legislature!

[lojasmo]

72. Ickes, McAuliffe et. al. made these rules, BEFORE Dean was chair

Hill and her flying monkeys should be screaming at them.

[joshcryer]

80. The rule to strip them of their delegates in full was made in August.

The original rules only cut their delegates by 50%.

[madfloridian]

81. 50% automatic...with option to cut all of them.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1932

[kevinmc]

33. I like Dean, could not stand than that LOSER/Moron McAuliffe ......

wonder what ever happened to that DLC Loser McAuliffe .....he must be mooching off some bottom feeder somewhere.

[madfloridian]

42. He is Hillary's campaign chairman.

I think that is the official title.

[phrigndumass]

34. Kicked and rec'd ... Dean makes a good executive for DNC

:hi:

[City Lights]

35. K&R

No bending the rules for either side. Thank you, Howard Dean!

[BumRushDaShow]

37. K&R

:kick:

[ihelpu2see]

40. Bravo Dr. Dean! nt

[madfloridian]

43. Just thinking...when has a former president openly defied the party like this?

Here you have the former president and his wife openly defiantly going against the party rules, going against the chairman who is trying to enforce them...

and the media is playing along with Bill.

They are openly defying the national committee and its rules.

Maybe they don't need them anymore.

[madfloridian]

46. Dean offers "olive branch"....hotel rooms in Denver.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/02/floridians_now_booked_to_retur.html

"After months of animus and finger-pointing, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean offered Florida's Democratic House delegation an olive branch this morning: He booked them hotel rooms in Denver.

It may not seem like much, but Florida House members hailed the gesture and the tone of the morning meeting as a breakthrough. Dean had pledged he would do everything in his power to seat Florida's delegates, months after he stripped the state of its convention voice after it moved its primary forward against party rules.

"Good tone, good tenor, everybody's on the same page," declared Rep. Alan Boyd (D-Fla.). "I now have confidence we can get this thing done."

Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz admitted they were no closer to figuring out how those delegates would be apportioned. Hillary Rodham Clinton wants the results of the nullified Jan. 29 primary respected, while Barack Obama wants a 50-50 split so the apportionment wouldn't effect his lead. Wasserman-Schultz said everyone agreed it would take a few more contests to decide on the math."

[tnlefty]

70. I'm glad that Chairman Dean is playing by the rules, I don't want to

have to go into super intensive retraining of my kids (playing by the rules being part of our values and all of that)! :thumbsup:

Whatever happens with apportioning the delegates I truly believe that if the superdelegates were stripped of their status then elected officials would think long and hard before flying in the face of the rules again. I saw Bill Nelson on some TV program the other morning blinking his eyes almost out of the sockets and I wondered if he and all of the supers in both states were stripped of their status if I would see his eyes actually pop out on national TV.

The supers should take most of the brunt for this IMHO.

[DeeDeeNY]

47. I have confidence in Dean, but I do hope that after this election season is over,

that the Dems will consider changing the rules on superdelegates so that they reflect the will of the people who voted in the primaries and caucuses.

[quantass]

51. hell yea

[LulaMay]

50. That is the most obvious, insincere piece of crap. He looks like a lying fool. LMAO

[NashVegas]

53. I Think He Really Needs to Get Some Kind of "Do Over" While It's Physically Possible

We all figure Hillary will throw Dean overboard if she gets the nom and presidency.

I have absolutely no faith that Obama would keep Dean in a position that could wrest any amount of political power from the DC crew. So, Dean's likely out of a job either way, IMO.

If MI and FL voters - fuck the delegates, I'm talking about the voters - perceive that the Dem party doesn't want their vote to count, and forget about who is to blame, we will lose FL and MI in the general.

[madfloridian]

55. Read the forum today. He and FL made a deal

That they would be seated. Which is just what he said all along. The two campaigns just agreed they would be seated....but not yet about how they would count.

Florida was given hotel rooms..

[jettison]

56. FL and MI

If FL and MI would abandon the democratic party simple because they elected incompetent officials and politicians to run their state, then that speaks volumes to their mentality in general. What are they going to say... "I'm voting McCain now and will be a Republican because Dean and/or Obama disenfranchised us?" If that's really their attitude, I really don't want their judgment in play when it comes to electing our next president. That's just sad.

If they want to get mad at someone then they can get mad at themselves for electing clueless officials who are willing to break the rules to represent them. If they want to "change the system" then start by electing better representation.

[madfloridian]

57. I agree.

:hi:

[Myrina]

61. I STILL loves me some Howard Dean!

:applause: :loveya: :patriot:

[madfloridian]

63. Me, too, myrina.

:hi:

[NC_Nurse]

65. Go Howard!!!

He is the best thing that's happened to the
Dems in a LONG time. F*ck the DLC!!!

[Sancho]

67. Sorry, but this is a no win situation for Dean....

we can debate who was at fault, or whose rules need fixing, but there is no way for Dean to come out of this without being on the bad side of someone. I think that the party needs to look at what will win the Presidency.

What a difference it would have been if Gore or Kerry would have been the two term President. It is not Hillary or Obama or Edwards at stake...

I agree that Florida needs some leadership. Send donations to Christine Jennings in Sarasota! Bill Heller in St. Petersburg! Kathy Castor in Hillsboro!

:dem:

[madfloridian]

68. He agrees. He said both sides are mad at him.

Trouble is, I have faith that people will see deeper into the stupidity of the Florida Dems.

It's too late for Dean, he'll be stepping down anyway and going on with his life.

But I have seen a dark side of the FL Dems and of Hillary and Bill Clinton....and I will not forget it.

[WyLoochka]

71. It really is not debatable

"who is at fault." Dean didn't break the rules - Fl and MI people did through their elected representatives.

And what do you want to bet - they will almost all be returned to office. No legislators will suffer any consequences over this.

The misplaced blame and failure of the people to take responsibility and rise up against the people who actually made the mess is a pathetic squandering of their right, and at times obligation, to actually fire people who fucked them over, instead of blaming Dean and the rest of us who did nothing but adhere to the pre-agreed to rules..

[Sancho]

75. We need some different Florida leadership, that's for sure...

I suspect that many "independent" Floridian don't see anything except that they were left out. We have a much better informed view at DU than the typical person on the street.

I'm really hoping that Florida can elect a Democratic Senator or Representative or Governor that can get the attention that Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, etc. seem to get. I'm sooooo tired of stolen elections and being the laughing stock of the nation.

Being left out of the primary doesn't help our new state and local candidates, but I have no idea how to fix it. Maybe Dean can split the baby, but I doubt that it will happen without consequences.

[madfloridian]

76. If Floridians can't figure out how to learn the truth....then that is their fault.

And they deserve whatever they get.

We are responsible for our leaders.

Many people we know are switching to Obama now and connecting the dots.

[madfloridian]

74. I have to say one thing....Dean has been head and shoulders above petty FL politicians

Castor has been one of the most vocal critics of Dean over this issue. Jennings brushed Dean aside when he spoke out about suggestions for her lost election.

It speaks to me that I can no longer be a Florida Democrat actively when they assail constantly the one person who has tried to abide by the rules.

Dean will pay the price. But he will have stood head and shoulders above the petty politicians of Florida.

[lojasmo]

73. Thank you, Governor.

Stick to the rules. Show those scalliwags they can't run roughshod over the process.

[gristy]

78. Several years ago I got to walk and talk with Howard Dean all the way from

our plane to baggage claim. I spent most of the time telling him about the evils of electronic voting.

[madfloridian]

79. If the former president and his wife were not in the race....

you can bet your bottom dollar the party leaders and the media would jumping the butts of anyone else acting like this when it is effectively over.

They are getting away with yelling at a roomful of superdelegates, saying untrue things about Obama's role in MI and FL, spreading rumors about Rev. Wright ( I quote Harold Ickes).

No other candidate would be allowed to so disrupt a party.

I think we all know that. And it is sad.

[madfloridian]

82. Here's the video.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x114121