Do you agree with Obama that art and music should be back in schools?

[Whisp]

I've heard him mention this just a couple times, and picked up on it because I think this is so very important to a rounded out education for children. If anyone knows of a speech of his where he embellishes on this, please post it here.

Art, in it's many forms, is the very foundation of humanity and freedom of self and finding unique voice and way of expression. It's an important part of developing critical thinking and looking at things in different ways and coming up with new ideas or expanding on old ideas.

Art is like an arm or a leg. It's part of being human. If we are separated from it, we are less whole, incomplete.

I hope Obama pursues this, for the sake of all, mostly the children. They are trading arms and legs for the NCLB rote robotic stunting program.

[Erin Elizabeth]

1. Should have never been taken out.

And around here, they're still in the schools.

[Cha]

10. Right..I didn't realize it had..except

now I do remember budgets being cut with music and art being the first casulties.

[Whisp]

41. the big picture - take money away from kids and their future

and invest it in wars and rumors of wars so the Cheney's can jam $$$ in their jeans.

so those kids, who now don't have that critical thinking and base of self confidence, can sign up for these wars and enlist without questioning too much.

sometimes I think this is no accident at all, but a big plan to disempower us as much as possible.

[Cha]

47. It's no accident or coincidence...

they're monsters who are covering all their bases. Too bad for them they're so greedy and stupid and overshoot their load.

[Forkboy]

2. Definitely. Kids need the right classes to cut.

Kidding. I think it's a great idea.

[rug]

3. I can't decide. It's such a controversial position.

[Debi]

21. Heh

:yourock:

[Scout]

49. heh heh -- good one n/t

[Whisp]

56. tee hee. well, isn't it kinda nice that everybody is on the same side on this one?

makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. which is so very unusual for this forum.

:)
and notch another up for Obama and his wisdom in seeing that all of us need the same things.

[blogslut]

4. Yes

n/t

[Adelante]

5. Certainly nt

[Swamp Rat]

6. HELL YEAH!

Art and music led me to science.

[hisownpetard]

19. HELL, YEAH 2.

[flor de jasmim]

7. He mentions it in most or all of his town meetings:

he talks about how research has shown that music helps with math scores, for instance. Perhaps the videos are kept on his site...

[SoFlaJet]

8. AS an artist....

absolutely should be in schools

[americanstranger]

16. And as a musician...

I could not agree with you, or Obama, more.

Music saved my life. And to any kids who are in the situation I was in coming up in school, it could save theirs, too.

- as

[Coexist]

20. and it rewires your brain and makes you smarter!

[americanstranger]

57. My wife might argue with you on that.

Her favorite question to me goes along the lines of 'You know 3,000 songs - why can't you remember to take out the garbage?'

:rofl:

But I agree with you. Definitely makes you smarter and better able to deal socially. I was painfully shy when i was a kid, but after I started getting good at guitar I had to become more of a social animal.

- as

[ensho]

94. yes, and music is also math

and visa versa

[SoFlaJet]

26. yea I started as a caricaturist

and morphed into a performing singer/songwriter-a working one too...art got me through school and music has sustained us and kept me alive

[grace0418]

82. Another artist checking in to agree and say...

The slow disappearance of art and music started when I was in school. I know I would've made some different choices in college and in life had I been exposed to more art and music when in grade school. I eventually discovered my passion and abilities, but I wasted a lot of time (and still am to a certain extent).

[JerseygirlCT]

9. Oh ABSOLUTELY! These are not adjuncts to an education.

They are centrally important aspects of education. It makes me nuts to see so many schools cutting back these programs as nice, but essentially secondary. They simply are not.

[DearAbby]

11. Yes...

[SeattleGirl]

12. I could not agree more.

I think art and music are an essential part of education, and it sickens me that so many schools have done away with the art and music programs.

[Crazy Dave]

13. I would love to see what they actually teach in schools these days

I've been out so long and so have my kids. Art and music must take away too much time and money from indoctrination time.

BTW - Everyone should see "Mr. Holland's Opus". Richard Dreyfuss was as great in that as he was in "Jaws".

[Whisp]

59. Mr. Hollands Opus - a great movie. thanks for the reminder. nt

[MilesColtrane]

96. I just couldn't get past the fact that it took him 30 years to write 3 minutes of music.

But, the whole teacher/student sentiment is nice.

[rocktivity]

14. Absolutely--I would not look kindly up a school system

that did not include comprehensive arts, athletics, and computer programs.

:headbang:
rocknation

[bigwillq]

15. Yes (nt)

[Coexist]

17. hell yes. I live in FCATlorida

my son, in Middle School, had the hardest time in a writing class because he was inable to write "outside the formula".

She worked so hard with him to get him to understand that EVERY paragraph did not HAVE TO HAVE an introductory sentence, three supporting sentences, two sentences each supporting an idea in each of those three sentences, and a closing sentence.

He totally supressed his ability to let his thoughts and feelings flow into his writing, and had a hell of a time getting it back.

[PA Democrat]

79. Don't even get me started on those writing formulas.

While they have some usefulness, they STILL use them in high school here. Points are taken off if you stray from the required structure. I think it stifles creativity, and personally, I feel it often results in redundancy and a boring final product.

[Debi]

18. My kid must've been spoiled

He was in choir (not such a big fan of band but had friends in marching band, band, jazz band and orchestra)

He was on Speech Team (and took a Speech class)

He was in Drama (and took an acting class)

He took Art I/Art II/ceramics(they actually had a wheel for people in wheelchairs) and jewelry

The school also held a video broadcasting class and interpersonal communications class

So, was he spoiled?

[Coexist]

25. was this in grade school, middle school or high school?

[Debi]

44. He was in choir from Pre-K all the way through high school

it became a graded class in Jr. High and a credited class in High School

Same with art.

He started Drama in an after school program in the 8th grade and joined the Drama Club in High school (and took his drama course in high school - the students recorded all their performances for his class)

He started Speech Team in high school and took his speech class in high school (again the students recorded their performances)

Both the video broadcasting and interpersonal communications courses were in high school.

Every year in Elementary, Jr. High and High School the school would put on talent shows to raise money for various charities. He was in the talent shows in Elementary and High School (typically students from band/orchestra/speech/drama and the cheer-leading/dance squads would perform).

[Coexist]

54. wow

[Debi]

85. Really?

Maybe it's because we live in a college town? I guess I took it for granted, music and the arts have probably 60% support of our sports teams, but never have our kids played to an empty auditorium and our awards banquets are as well attended at the sports teams.

My husband always compares our town to Pleasantville - maybe it is? :shrug:

[AZBlue]

22. Absofuckinglutely!

[cooolandrew]

23. I think it is very fitting Barack has inspired so much art and music. The true beauty of the world..

...After the creative thinkers of the neocons have painted us a nightmare. Let's paint ourselves a beautiful future.

[monmouth]

24. Even though my kids are grown I'd like to see after-school programs

reinstated. They were so wonderful for latch-key kids and gave a sense of relief to parents.

[Upton]

27. Without a doubt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. The school system is rigid and set up for testing - the children are nervous wrecks!

I should know. I think it is good to have an expanded curriculum with all sorts of opportunities such as computer programming, cooking, carpentry, electronics, art, music and languages. I hate this reading, math only thing. Children should be able to explore in continual assessment not rapid testing just to provide funding for the school.

[gateley]

29. Yes! Ricardson addressed this too -- passionately

when he was still in the race.

[Withywindle]

30. Absolutely!

If art and music are "optional" or "electives" or unimportant, why has every single human culture that's ever existed on the planet had them?

Because they're a big part of what MAKES us human, that's why.

[C_U_L8R]

31. absolutely !!!!!!!

art and music bring us together and raise us higher.
They tell us stories and teach us language and history and
math and style and craftsmanship and mythology and and and
YES.... being human !!!

[bluerum]

32. I can't believe that we even have to ask this question.

[loyalsister]

33. Most definitely!

This is what got my sister who got my parents to support Obama.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Art and music is dead to me now!

:D

[ClayZ]

35. K and R I think he means what he says about the Arts.

[Hepburn]

36. Absolutely! n/t

[movonne]

37. Yes I agree ...

[Champion Jack]

38. Absolutely agree with him

[Bluenorthwest]

39. Yes, with great abandon

I think the role of the Arts, visual and performing arts, in creating and maintaining relationships and community networks beyond the groups into which we are born is vastly underated. Nothing makes a bunch of people into tight knit unit like creative projects. Not just in schools, but everywhere in our Communities. The creative process leads to trusting communications, and a sense of 'us' between former stangers.
Without a vision, the people will perish.

[midnight]

40. Yes!

[anonymous171]

42. YEAH!

[Demeter]

43. Often Art and Music Are the Only Things Keeping The Kids In School

and not just those artistically inclined.

[Recursion]

45. In a lot of cases it's more about time than money

If you're teaching to an increasingly-demanding state-mandated standardized exam, you don't have time for music or art.

[FatDave]

46. Fuck yes they should.

Absolutely, 100%, and any other positive affirmation you can think of.

I'd like to see some classes in logic and critical thinking added too, though.

[MrSlayer]

48. I wasn't aware they took it out.

My son studies music and my daughter is an art major and both are in public school. With that said there is no doubt that both are extremely important to a well rounded education.

[TAWS]

50. Schools have been cutting art and music to focus more on science and math, which I agree with

[sudopod]

89. As a rocket scientist (lol) I have to ask

why can't we do both?

Did buying that last B-2 break the bank?

[ericgtr]

51. It's sad that students don't have this today

music in school changed my life, now it's a thing of the past. I am thrilled to hear him bring this up.

[NV Whino]

52. YES!

[babylonsister]

53. Absolutely. A (second) language, too. nt

[shadowknows69]

55. Yes, no question.

[dbonds]

58. Of course (I would have said hell yeah but someone beat me to it)

[Ysabel]

60. yes...

my eldest grandson (3 yrs. old) is in dance / science / soccer / art / and gym...

my youngest grandson (1 yr. old) is in free gym and his parents are also trying to get him into dance and art...

i'm proud of my son and his wife they make less than $20,000 a year and they are doing the best that they can for their kids...

- luckily where they live they have these free programs for children...

p.s. they read and sing to them every day as well and they feed them good wholesome organic foods (and never ever any hfcs)...

[ZombieHorde]

69. "and never ever any hfcs"

I did not know that there was any other kind on food.

[Ysabel]

71. lol there's all sorts of other food...

[mia]

61. When were art and music taken out of the public schools?

I've been teaching in Miami-Dade for 15 years and my students have always had these classes.

[Ysabel]

66. they have been cut in a number of places...

and the issue has been brought up regularly for years...

here's an article about it from 2003:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/08/13/sprj.sch.cuts/

- a google search brings up many returns i just posted one of the first on the list...

[boobooday]

62. Of course

Mandatory recorder lessons too.

I'm serious.

[JayFredMuggs]

63. I am against art and music in schools

Since we should just be training our children to be warriors in Iraq and Iran for 100 more years.

Who needs art and music, except for a military band?

McSame for President........let's make sure we cheat our children out of a full childhood and a really full life on this planet.


Sarcasm off

[Emit]

64. Art, Music and P.E., IMHO. Yes. n/t

[SoonerPride]

65. Not just Yes,..... but Hell yes.

We need a more well rounded populace.

[immoderate]

67. Absolutely -- and industrial arts (shops) too! It builds neuronal pathways.

Building stuff gives kids a chance to encounter unique problems and gather satisfaction and reward for their accomplishments. Anyone who understands education and brain development knows this. There's tons of scientific data to support it.

--IMM

[AwakeAtLast]

68. Music teacher here-my student load has doubled in the last five years

From 400 to 800 students. It is overwhelming. :(

[eleny]

70. And I'd add to that - Civics class

But yes, I agree with him.

[aaronbees]

72. The arts and music help us dream...

and spur us to understand the world on an intuitive, emotional level. They're essential for being a whole person, not just a screw in the production machine. So, hell yeah, I say.

[OneBlueSky]

73. absolutely . . . in fact, I wouldn't mind seeing them replace business classes . . . n/t

.

[Huge Ego Sorry]

74. If not for the kids in the art and music classes

Who would us cool kids in the Iron Maiden shirts pick on in between smoking in the bathroom and skipping class?

:yoiks:

[grace0418]

83. Who would've designed and silkscreened that Iron Maiden shirt for you?

:)

[madrchsod]

75. if it was`t for art i`d dropped out of school in 1965

the humanities are just as important as math and science

[Madam Mossfern]

76. It's through art and music

we 'see' and 'hear' the world. We learn to look inside of ourselves as well as outside of ourselves. Creative arts encourage children to challenge authority in some way, helping them to think for themselves. A creative person is more likely to be able to have the ability to put him/herself in the other's shoes, it develops a sense of empathy and a sense of wonder.

[susankh4]

77. Yes.

But no school vouchers, to bleed money away from the public schools, please.

[JustinL]

78. video here

link

This is from a town hall meeting held in Wallingford, PA on April 3rd. Some excerpts:

Children who learn music actually do better in math. Kids whose imaginations are sparked by the arts are more engaged in school. Kids who have physical education are more able to pay attention in the classroom. So these things aren't just extras, they are part of a well-rounded education.

...

The other thing is that we have to just improve arts and music funding generally, in schools but also outside of schools. The Endowment for the Arts, our support of the public arts, our support for arts institutions, all those things should be a priority. And they don't cost that much money, they really don't, but you get such a big payoff.

And one last point. I made this actually yesterday in Scranton. Part of what arts education does is it teaches people to see each other through each other's eyes. It teaches us to respect and understand people who are not like us. And that makes us better citizens and it makes our democracy work better. That's something that I strongly believe in. That's one of the main reasons we need to promote the arts.

And yes, I definitely agree with Obama on the importance of arts education.

[DemVet]

80. Physical Education and organized Recess needs....

...to be put back in also. Get those little fatasses MOVING!

We're "growing" a nation of video-game-playing lazy asses.

[Reader Rabbit]

81. Is this a trick question?

Of course. I don't teach any of those subjects, but as a middle school teacher, I can guarantee you they are absolutely necessary to a child's growth and development.

[sentelle]

84. i agree, but

So should geography and history. The fact is, the only thing the current system is good for is to make us good consumers. Or, as Conan o'brien might say, to buy crap. Can't do math? Buy a calculator. Don't know geography or how to read a map? Buy a gps. Thirsty? Buy a coke.

Last time I remember geography being taught was 1978. I graduated high school in 1988.

Art is important, but so are the fundamentals.

[Fire Walk With Me]

86. Do Bush and Cheney strike anyone as being lovers of art and music?

'Nuff said.

[LWolf]

87. Yes. I fiercely disagree with him, however,

on other significant things he's said about education.

I disagree that merit pay for teachers is a good thing. It's been part of the right-wing agenda for quite some time, and I vehemently oppose it.

I disagree that further privatization of public education might be a good thing. As a matter of fact, I think we need to move in the opposite direction, and DE-privatize.

These two are deal breakers for this teacher. Obama has plenty of other bad positions, but these two guarantee that I will not cast a vote for him. Ever.

[sudopod]

90. I've got to be honest

I'm not entirely sure why opposition to merit-pay is so strong among teachers. If I understand correctly, the disagreements arise with how "merit" is measured. In most (R) proposals, merit is measured via standardized testing, which leads to "teaching the test" as a goal rather than giving children real understanding.

Am I reading this issue correctly?

I have to agree that "standardized" testing is a very limited tool for measuring a student's knowledge, and I say this as someone who is pretty good at taking tests.

Thanks!

[LWolf]

101. That's some of it.

The real issues are these:

There is no concrete, objective way to measure "merit" outside standardized test scores. You've already mentioned some problems with using test scores in such a way.

This leaves such a system ripe for corruption. Bear in mind that we've known for decades before the implementation of high-stakes testing that the best predictor of standardized scores are not anything that happens in school, but parent ed and ses levels. That means that teachers whose classes are filled with students from families with higher ed and socio-economic levels will score higher than teachers who classes are filled with the neediest kids; the kids that most need our help.

Tie teacher pay to test scores, and teachers will be competing for the students most likely to score well. Teaching the neediest students will become a "punishment," and a way to threaten teachers, and to get rid of them. Load a good teacher with a room full of those most likely to do poorly on standardized tests for a few years, and you can start to attack professional competency. Why? Because no matter how well they do, no matter how much growth their students make, they won't grow to the same extent that other more privileged students do, so they will always "fail."

The potential for misuse and corruption should be obvious. Not to mention the fact that we are supposed to be a team, working together for the good of every student, not opponents in a competition for cash. The best outcome for ALL students happens when teachers are working together for the best outcome for ALL; not when they are trying to "beat" other students. That also should be obvious. Teachers are partners in working to further the education of all, not opponents who "win" when their colleagues fail.

[sudopod]

102. Wow!

I hadn't considered that the system might use poor kids as a "punishment," but you're absolutely right, that's how it would be rigged.

Thanks for explaining that so thoroughly! ^_^

[sudopod]

88. Yes.

The sky is also blue. :)

[Blue_Roses]

91. Hell yes!

It should have never been taken out:mad:

[Texas Hill Country]

92. yet another thing Obama copied from Hillary...

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/files/pdf/strengthenthearts.pdf

[ensho]

93. Yes and mandatory/womandatory Phys. Ed. classes all 12 yrs.

nt

[Bullet1987]

95. Art and Music are gone from all schools...only some

But I agree...they need to be brought back.

[meow mix]

97. Yes. and School Sports should be cut untill both areas are equal.

[terip64]

98. Yes, K&R!!! n/t

[aquarius dawning]

99. Just what America needs, more artists.

We should focus more on sports and athletics too. That will help maintain our competitive edge in the world. :eyes:

[NashVegas]

100. I Have Very Mixed Feelings On This

I think I'd rather see local rec-center / playground - type art programs where kids are taught how to use different media with no competitive grades attached.

Art (and music) in the US, for the masses, is not about humanity and higher spirit - it's about what can be licensed and branded to advertising. As advertising is a blight on humanity, let them pay for the training of their future enablers.

[silverweb]

103. Absolutely!

n/t