A serious question on how to answer some John McCain supporters:

[hedgehog]

Just how do you answer people who say they support McCain because "he's a war hero"? Denigrating his service won't win you any friends and I'd have to say it's dishonest besides. Yes, the Republicans invented swift boating, but who wants to be a Republican?

[tekisui]

1. Just say he now supports torture.

Let them have the war hero, don't harp on it. The more it's mentioned, the more people start to identify with him that way.

[hedgehog]

4. I'd like to think of a way to bring the discussion around to the question

of why we need a war leader. The big threat facing us the next 50 years is global climate change.

[tekisui]

6. Those who cling to a "war leader", vote on fear.

They are also hard to be scared with global climate change(although they should be).

Bring up the Republican War Recession and they should be scared shitless of a man who admittedly knows shit about the economy. That is where we should be focused.

[hedgehog]

10. Hmmm.... Push the Hope Agenda in answer to the Fear Agenda.

Maybe toss in a little FDR.


I like it.

[tekisui]

13. Nothing to fear but a collapsing War economy...we need a New New Deal.

Not a reactionary, temper-tantruming War runner.

[CTyankee]

9. No, that won't work. I know people who would say "So do I if it'll protect my family!"

It's awful but lots of people DO support torture in lots of circumstances...

[tekisui]

11. Then tell them we need an "Economic Hero" to save this Country.

[CTyankee]

16. i just say "So you want 4 more years of what we've got now?"

Or I say something about his 100 years in Iraq remark. Sometimes I say I won't vote for an angry, old, mentally unstable, pink faced man.

[Lautremont]

2. Ask them if they voted for the war hero in 2004.

[SeattleGirl]

3. I would ask them why he now supports torture, when he himself

was tortured.

I won't disparage his military service, but I think my question is a legitimate one.

[Symarip]

5. I have this conversation every time I go to the local pub

I usually say something like, your war hero was opposed to our current war conduct but now he's for it. Isn't that how John Kerry got into trouble?

I find that if you bring the conversation back to over 4,000 US deaths of men and women (with republicans, talking about the foreigners we've killed means nothing) that a good number of them will listen.

It also helps that I was in the Navy for 9 years and I'm now a defense contractor. It's hard for RW'ers to deny the voice of a veteran, for some twisted reason. Personally, I think we all have voices.

[TooBigaTent]

7. Answer with the truth of how the "war hero" dumped his wife after he came home

because she had been disfigured in an auto accident. After his string of affairs while still married to the wheel-chair bound wife.

Then ask if that is the kind of person they consider a hero.

[CTyankee]

15. That's my argument too, but I had one friend (a Democrat!) say that lots of

marriages of POWs failed once they returned because of the ordeal. I told my friend that his ordeal had nothing to do with his penis when he got back home...

[last1standing]

8. There's no need to denegrate his service.

But you can ask what his service record provides that will help us out of this recession or keep a million families from losing their homes. You can point out that McCain as himself admitted that he knows very little about the economy.

You can ask if McCain is the right person to lead us out of Iraq. He has repeatedly stated that he has no intention of doing so until "we win" but he cannot answer what winning means except in abstract, unattainable ideals.

You can ask if his service negates a career of flip-flopping on issues when it serves his ambitions.

You can ask if his record in the Keating Five scandal was negated by his more recent campaign finance reform bill. And then you can ask if his inability to abide by his own stated beliefs on campaign finance is somehow justifiable.

I think that should do for starters.

[rndmprsn]

12. sure...he's a WAR hero, from the WAR party, who wants more WAR, and 100 YEARS OF WAR in iraq given..

the chance...so they can have their WAR hero if they want endless WAR.

[hedgehog]

19. That's a good answer, too.

Did someone leave the door open, because I feel a draft!

[SteelPenguin]

14. I don't vote for someone based on what they did

I vote for someone based on what they want to do, tempered by the context of what they have done in the past.

To elucidate...

I honor McCain's service to this country, but that by no means makes me agree with what he wants to do it. By the same token a democratic candidate could say many things that I agree with, but I might not vote for them (in a primary) based on their background, or if I think they've done questionable things in the past.

If the person I'm talking to is obviously a right wing nutjob though I'll just say "you know who else was a prisoner of war before they ran for public office?...Hitler..." and then hit them in the head with a coconut cream pie, honk a horn, and run off stage.

[Not the Only One]

17. Benedict Arnold was a war hero, too.

He was one of the top members of the Continental Army, with amazing victories at Fort Ticonderoga and the Battle of Saratoga, among others. He had poor character, though, obviously.

Being a war hero isn't everything. In fact, it's not especially meaningful.

[shagsak]

18. I hate to attack his military record

But he did crash a total of 5 planes in his career and dear ole dad bailed him out every time. One was on the way to a football game. Does that sound heroic?

[PATRICK]

20. The GOP itself

already swiftboated him as per free republic which I will not link though it has been recently. The hint was that he sold out fairly bigtime to his captors for favors not under torture. The only conflict his detractors had was whether they should give up trying to protray him as a coward under torture or the conniver that the GOP unsually admires and rewards in fashion similar to lawless tyranny everywhere. I'd say it would have been harder confronting his fake persona in 2000, but since then all his positions have shifted with the winds and he no intention of being any of the things people thought of him before. Election reform? Abortion? the Keating Five and today's economic scandal(ok, some consistency there). In fact his areas of consistency are very commonly known now. He caves to advantage faster than anyone would under torture. He mirrors all corruption. He is totally out of it on the war. He has never walked the tough guy talk without taking a detour for fun and profit and ambition. Bush trashed the 'straight talker angry man' and McCain's big response to rehabilitate himself is to smooch and hug bush at every opportunity and rarely even critique a Bush anything.

He allies himself to Bush on war simply to milk the factor for the election. The price he has paid to the Bush machine and voting machine companies insure however he will be owned.

The kicker. The ultimate Bush patsy. Old. Will rot uselessly and quite possibly die in office and another Bush stooge or dynast will slide right in. Old and post Reagan in leadership capabilities. Will likely burnout in a heated campaign. All opinions to the contrary are the result of the machine and not fact based.

[erebusman]

21. say the following:

I really respect his service to our country, the war in Iraq and the current administrations treatment of veterans reminds me of how we need to appreciate them.

His current support of torture and staying 100 years in Iraq makes me wonder where his head is at though? Neither of these seem like they make sense coming from a POW veteran? Whats your thoughts on that?

And then listen (or pretend to)

It might make them think.

[hedgehog]

22. What, treat someone who supports a Republican as a potential voter for our side?

Fie on you I say, Fie!

[Symarip]

23. Kicking. This is a real conversation we need to be having.