On randi, freedom of speech and mccarthyism

[nadinbrzezinski]

I am not surprised to read calls from folks to basically call for the firing of a radio host that dared criticize a Presidential candidate

Were the worlds warranted? Nope

Is the AAR action warranted? Absolutely not.

Before I received all the rotten vegetables... chew on this

Back in the 1950s a US Senator carried, single handedly, a witch hunt for communists. Many people lost their jobs, their only crime, they were members of the Communist Party of the US during the Great Depression. That was their crime. They were seen as fifth columnists

What I see today happening here is similar. If you do not follow a certain orthodoxy... you should be fired. It is a hate fest for anybody who does not share your opinion of people.

You should know that this knee jerk orthodoxy can transform itself into something similar to what happened during McCarthy's time. Freedom of speech ain't nice. Hell, I wish I could have shut up Mr Fallwell many a times. Hell, when I see the comparisons to Imus I have to laugh since her comments were made OFF the air... not on the air. THough the station should have been fined, Imus suspended for two weeks and that's it...

So here is the point that many of you are not getting... it truly started with Malloy (we call this a pattern) and where do you want it to stop? When only the opinions you hold are allowed in the public space? Nations have tried that... and blood of millions has flowed.

So temper your hate (yes it is hate) and start thinking... because THIS is a precedent. And one that can be used to FIRE YOU.. if your opinions are not the same as the boss...

Let me suit up with a bunker suit...

INCOMING.. rotten tomatoes, eggs and fruit...

[dsc]

1. She was on their dime

This isn't Randi writing a letter to the newspaper as a private citizen. This is Randi being flown out by Air America to an Air America affiliate, and using that appearance to say what she said. This would be no different than my school suspending me if I used my math class to teach politics instead.

On edit, Evidently she had her airfare paid by someone else. Well I get to work on my own too. My ass would still be fired if I used their time to do other things.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. The lawyers and the Station Manager for San Fran

will kindly disagree with you

I spent the afternoon listening to the manager and the first dispute is who exactly was paying.

[JackBeck]

6. AAR did not pay for her trip.

She was sponsored by a martial arts business from Newark, NJ. She talked about it on her show before her appearance.

[blue sky at night]

12. wish folks could just say what they mean...

are you saying that what she said justifies the suspension? Did you just skip over 90 percent of the post? Wondering if anyone calling for randi's head would have the guts to really speak their minds, given the chance? I won't ask you that question, because you failed to state what you think should be done, only that you feel it was on aar's dime, therefore she can't possibly have her freedom of speech. I am above all; for the freedom of speech, no ifs, no ands, and no FUCKING buts!

[JackBeck]

14. Freedom of speech comes at a financial price.

Which is what Randi has always railed against: the corporate ownership of the individual.

[dsc]

16. Yes, I would have suspended her

but even if it weren't, they had the legal right to do so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. That is why the lawyers are in the midst of a dustoff

So let me get this straight

If you work for company A and your boss is a hard right winger who believes in the second coming, can he fire you if you go the local bar, OFF his dime, and over a couple cool ones you mention that you don't agree with this view?

If you do... then you are being consistent.

Or can you be fired for being a commie?

[dsc]

22. this wasn't her own time

she was at an affiliate meeting. If she were at a local comedy club, then maybe you would have something but she was at a meeting representing them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. As several people pointed to you already, AAR did not pay for it

and I will take the statement from the PROGRAM DIRECTOR of the affiliate, who said she wasn't on their dime, over yours

[dsc]

42. she was still representing them

If I drove to another school and watched our team play and said that kind of crap I would be fired. She deserves the suspension. They are held responsible for what she said, and not unreasonably, they have decided they don't want to be associated with what she said.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. I wish I could live in your black and white world, really

would make things so much easier

Lawyers are involved for a reason.

[dsc]

57. Lawyers will take cases all the time

Unless Air America has idiotic lawyers she is in deep trouble and she sould be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Again I hope to never inhabit your black and white world

where I can fire you for saying something I don't agree with OFF MY DIME.

[Bluenorthwest]

134. She's in showbiz

And when one is a highly paid public entertainer-she is an entertainer not a journalist- one signs a contract that can have all kinds of clauses. Things that would not matter in most jobs. I was contractually obligated to keep a certain hair cut for a couple of years. I could have been fired and sued for cutting my hair without permission. I also could, under many contracts I have worked under, have been fired and sued for some forms of public speech. My image was part of the product, and trust me, anyone who is the face or voice of other people's money interests has obligations in terms of public image. Political speech is not the only area of interest. Intentional slander of the customers or the product is also a big no no. If you serve a market that is 95% Democratic and you alienate 50% of that audience, you are putting the business at risk. It is that simple. An hour or two on the subject of 'people who eat meat are murderers' might also see trouble, or saying that people who listen to classical music are dweebs. That which harms the profit is under the control of the one who pays you. No entertainer can be allowed to bring down the company that pays them.
Lawyers made her deal and my deals, how many were involved in your employment agreement? Would your company's profits be affected by your speech or actions outside of work? What would happen if you ran into the most important client of your company at Happy Hour and told him he was a mouth breathing idiot bit of scum for voting McCain, and the person took offense? Took his custom elsewhere?

The simple fact is she is doing more harm to her business and her employer than to Hillary. He job is not to elect Obama or to prevent Hillary winning. Her job is to draw an audinece. And hold them. And sell them things. That is her job. If you are paid to sell a product, and intead your efforts lower sales numbers, can you be fired? Oh yes. So it is not so unusual what you are seeing with Rhandi. She is doing the opposite of her job. She is alienating a big chunk of a listener base that is already so small they barely keep the doors open. Forget the politics, this is showbiz, and she is not only not filling seats, she is clearing the house of many who don't share her view,and many who do but just don't like to hear the bile. Or who would prefer that bile go to Bush/McCain. Turn away the diners, the restaurant closes. Showbiz is just business. Without AAR she does not get head nor paid.
And trust me on this, you could be fired now for what you say on your own time, depending on what you said. Destructive speech about the product or business itself will get you axed. Go around town saying 'our product sucks and my boss is a rip off' and see how that goes. Progressive politics is AAR's product. While she has one opinion, she is actually in a way attacking half of the current product line, and that will cost AAR $$$$.
Will your boss keep you if you lose money for him or her? If you alienate half the customers? Is so, and the pay is mid six figures, let me know and I'll come work there!

[shaniqua6392]

121. I have even seen Obama supporters say she was doing a stand up routine.

What? Since when is she a stand up comedienne? She was representing AAR and should be suspended for what she said. It was just as bad or worse than the Imus thing. Clinton is a Democrat and a United States Senator and whether you like her or not, she did not deserve to be called that name.

[blue sky at night]

31. you make me mourn........

for what we have lost. i keep thinking there is hope, but when i hear an educator favoring censorship....guess it was just a "concept", nothing real about it.

[dsc]

47. It isn't censorship

Say she had said "I love Bush and war was right". I suspect you would be fine with her being suspended.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. No I wouldn't, but that goes for most people who ACTUALLY

understand the first amendment

I may disagree with you, (and for the record I am offended by the language she used), but I will defend you to your right to say it.

[dsc]

58. So Air America has no right whatsoever to control their message

That is ludricrous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. So I can control what you say and think on and off the job?

is that what you are saying?

THINK.

(BTW if I decide to write the short story covering this dystopia of yours should I credit you?)

[dsc]

65. If you are speaking at an affilate meeting and you have been hired for your political views

then yea. You are not off the job if you at an affiliate meeting drumming up publicity for your show.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Okie dokie, remind me not to move to your dystopia for real

and that is why lawyers involved

That said... been revising a story set in a US you might enjoy living in... reeducation camps and all

And I am not kidding there

Now better take some notes here... for the revision notes

[MonkeyFunk]

119. There's absolutely no first-amendment issue here at all

[skepticscott]

122. If you ACTUALLY understood the First Amendment

you'd know that it absolutely doesn't apply here.

[blue sky at night]

69. sorry......

you won't get me to go there...bush supporters have enough problems of their own, they don't need suspended from their jobs, they have to look at themselves in the mirror every day.


btw, you might try reading my tag line and my bumper sticker.

[dsc]

98. This isn't just any job

she has been hired for her POLITICAL views. If you are pastor the local church and decide to worship Satan in your spare time, you might, just might, get fired.

[Tunkamerica]

13. Um, that's a terrible analogy

it would be more like if your students were adults and your school (which was a private school) told you to teach whatever you wanted . Then once you'd taught what you wanted it was posted on the internet and a lot of people pressured your school into suspending you and were calling for your dismissal for doing exactly what you were told to do. Also, the reason these people were so offended was because they didn't understand various basic teaching techniques such as hyperbole and figures of speech.

[dsc]

19. I will concede there is a difference between adults and kids

but the rest of the analogy is valid. They pay the bills and get to call the tune.

[Tunkamerica]

29. Oh, and your school didn't pay the bills

it was some other school down the road that had nothing to do with the school you worked for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. No she wasn't

She wasn't on their dime.

[JackBeck]

2. Whoopi Goldberg

Progressives went apoplectic when she was fired from Slim Fast for making crude comments about President Bush.

But then again, she was only referencing her vagina to make crude jokes about a President with anemic public support during a fundraiser for the Democratic nominee. And what happened? The right-wing media took over and tried to slander Kerry for his association with Goldberg.

[Catherina]

52. It's a disgusting, hypocritical double standard

that's made me look at all the people celebrating in a bad light.

Randi is free to talk about people's political sluttishness in selling out progressive value. People who don't want to hear it, don't have to listen to her but to shut her down is censorship of the worst kind. I know FEAR the kind of people supporting Hillary Clinton and their Nanny dictatorship.

Randi was on her own time, speaking to an audience that enjoyed what she had to say and she told the truth. Ferraro went on FOX several times to slam Sen. Obama. That is political whoring. When Hillary voted for IWR because she bet it would be good career move, that is political whoring. Everytime a Clintonist shows up on FOX to grovel for the uneducated vote and slam Obama for another trash vote, that's whoring.

What's even sadder isn't that she called those two people whores because that's what they are- political sluts, what's sad is that too many people here have NO respect for honest working whores so they say it's an insult to be compared to one. The real insult was in disrespecting honest whores and bringing them down to the low level of political sluts.

I find this prudery disgusting and destructive and won't have anything to do with it.

Next stop book-burning.



:scared:

If I were Randi I'd walk out. And if I were Olberman, I'd hire her on the spot. Olberman is dead to the Nanny-police anyway.

[Beacool]

86. Oh please, give me a break!!

How about if she disliked Obama and had called him the "n" word. Would you be so sanguine about it? Were you perhaps asking for Imus' head on a platter for what he said about the Rutgers' women basketball team?

She deserved the suspension as much as Imus deserved being fired. She could have expressed her views without calling Hillary or Geraldine those ugly names.

[JackBeck]

105. So you agree that Whoopi deserved to lose her sponsorship?

[leftynyc]

120. What people agree with is that Slim Fast

had the right to fire her. That we agreed with what she said is totally immaterial.

[Catherina]

112. And here is where you make your mistake. I never called for Imus to be fired

or, for that matter, Pat Buchanan despite his disgusting racisy and anti-Semitic statements. I'm actually on record her for saying that about Buchanan a few weeks ago.

I know it's a hallmark of the HRC campaign but please try to not make stupid assumptions. Just because you're partisan about when free speech should be "allowed" and when it shouldn't doesn't mean everyone is.

It was fucking comedy and the SF Bay audience ROARED with laughter, including many progressive women in the audience.

Now your cohorts have a thread trying to organize a movement to get her fired? I'm disgusted. I hope Randi takes this to the ACLU. The Klan, as disgusting as it is, can march down the streets of the US because free speech is protected. So is Randi's. Get over it unless you want to confirm for the country's long time fear that Hillary would usher in a totalitarian regime. I can NOT believe how short-sighted and non-strategic HRC supporters are. Every fucking time you try get partisan in her defence, you fuck her up even more.

Keep going. You're repulsing people and burying her. Is that what you really want?

[Beacool]

114. It's not "fucking" comedy to call a fellow Democrat a "big fucking whore",

and that means ANY Democrat not just Hillary. I'm calling out the hypocrisy that exists on this board. If these remarks had been said about Michelle Obama, people would have wanted to hang Randi.

As for getting her fired, I'm not asking for her firing, but an apology is due to both Hillary and Ferraro.

[Catherina]

116. The only apologies due are for selling out to the war and the DLC

Randi isn't a politician representing a constituency. Thank you for not calling for her to be fired. I abhor that kind of stuff- even for people like Buchanan and Imus. My head hurts so I'm sorry this isn't a good reply. Even if someone said that about Michelle, I wouldn't be asking for an apology. Why should anyone be forced to issue a fake apology for something as intangible as how they think or feel? That's asking them to apologize for who they are and very unfair imo.

I don't get the love affair with apologies and am so against demanding them because they rarely mean anything. The right kind of people don't ask for apologies and the wrong kind just take advantage of them :shrug:

You can call me a nappy-headed whore all day. I won't ask you to apologize but I'll kick your butt black and blue and even harder if you cry when I retaliate.

[skepticscott]

123. You don't get it either, do you?

Your analogy between the Klan and Randi is completely bogus. The Klan's free speech is protected from government interference or restriction by the First Amendment. AAR is a private organization not bound by the First Amendment.

[Catherina]

133. Oh I get it alright.

So when corporations start firing people because they "do not condone such abusive, ad hominem language by our employees" against President McCain, the war or whatever, you'll have only your short-sightedness to thank for applauding this precedent.

I'm getting a lot of things I don't like. In Hillary's New World, Anne Coulter and Rush Limbaugh are now the barometers for tastefulness :wow:

Air America fired her because it "does not condone such abusive, ad hominem language by our Hosts." That's especially offensive because her language was entirely appropriate for a private gig at a comedy club. The audience ROARED and the station sponsoring the show sent her a gushing thank you letter she can use in her suit against AAR. AAR is in breach of contract unless they have a clause about "abusive, ad hominem language"; add to that that she's a comic who was performing in a comedy club, wasn't on the airwaves and she's got a pretty airtight case. I'm sure Randi will win. Not only will she win but now you're going to have even more comedians and defenders of the 1st Amendement on Hillary's ass. Congratulations for confirming one the biggest fears of what a Clinton Administration would look like. :scared:

[skepticscott]

146. Don't misrepresent my position just to make YOUR point

I defy you to quote me "applauding this precedent" anywhere on this thread. if you can't, I have to wonder why you would have written that, other than that you know you're wrong on this point and have to make things up to cover your rear.

ALL I have maintained is that the First Amendment doesn't prevent a private organization from taking the kind of action that AAR did against Rhodes for things that she said. Period. We both know that's true, you just won't admit it. Whether it's fair or good is another issue, but I've made no comment on that issue, so please don't pretend that I have.

[stillrockin]

148. And thanks for playing "Really Bad Analogies" . . .

Obama was born black. Calling him a n***** is attacking him for something beyond his control. Hillary was not born a corporate whore; she decided to become the sellout she is all on her own. Capiche?

[Duke Newcombe]

4. Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom from Consequences or Responsibility. n/t

Duke

[DJ13]

5. Thank you Pat Buchanon

I didnt know you posted here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Is that you Senator McCarthy? He used exactly that argument in front

of the Committee for un-American Activities.

Apparently being a Communist, even if former, was a firable offense. Apparently a comedy show in a small club with colorful language, is also a firable offense.

Fascism has been creeping up... consider what you just posted in the historical context

[Duke Newcombe]

9. Play the "guilt by association" and fascist card if you must.

The truth of the statement is immutable in this context. Ms. Rhoades can spew as much she wants...on her dime.

Even if she did so, people have the right to counter her speech with other speech, and by not financially supporting her.

Or is using speech and actions to counter speech we don't agree with illegal?

Duke

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. And an employer can fire an employee they don't agree with

got it.

That is what you are agreeing to, by the way.

Damn is this STILL the US? I swear the country took a wrong turn at Alburqueque

[Duke Newcombe]

24. Yup. That's pretty much what that means...

...life ain't fair. This doesn't mean that you don't have the right to say what you want to say. Just that people don't have to figuratively "kiss your ass" and love it.

Duke

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Got it, then your idea of the US and Freedom of speech is as

un american, no pun, as that of Senator McCarthey.

Congrats. We are done

[Duke Newcombe]

34. Glad you got it. We don't have to kiss the behinds of...

...or subsidize, or co-sign, or sponsor people with whom we disagree. We only need to protect their _right_ to say the things we disagree with.

If you don't get that very basic destinction, then we are well and truly done.

Oh, by the way...thanks for telling me who I am. :sarcasm:

Duke

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. I thought Joe McCarthy was dead

At any rate, I sure don't think he should be posting HERE.

[Duke Newcombe]

44. See post #9, please

And thanks for telling me who I am. :sarcasm:

Duke

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Back from the dead!

That's a great trick. You oughta take it on the road.

[mkultra]

90. actually, it does. Its freedom

freedom is one thing. You either have it all or you dont have it.

[Duke Newcombe]

94. Again...you have freedom...

...as do other people. People (especially who are paying your check, or sponsoring you, or listening to your music, or buying your books) have no obligation to support the people exercising this "freedom" you speak of.


I'm willing to admit that perhaps I'm not communicating the concept clearly enough, but I don't think this is a difficult concept to grasp.


Duke

[mkultra]

99. to put it plainly

It has been established that she was not working for them at the time. We have no obligation to live our lives in any given way simple because someone somewhere pays us for something. They pay for our time and services, not our soul.


the belief that being payed frees you of rights is fundamentally flawed. Thats why people cant fire others for being black or female(or both i guess).


legally speaking, it has also been established that contracts, no matter the content, cannot deny individuals of basic rights. Corporations, however, do not have the same rights.

[AZBlue]

8. Excellent post.

K&R

[Whisp]

10. I think it started with Phil Donahue, same players behind it. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yep, you are right, it started with Donahue

[Kaleva]

11. There is a difference

between expressing an legitimate opinion and name calling. I also think a progressive/liberal would try to elevate the level of discourse and not strive for the lowest common denominator.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. It was a comedy routing

in an off color show, off the air.

I don't attend those shows... I don't like the language, but I don't ask for folks to loose jobs over it

[Kool Kitty]

100. Agreed. I am not one of Randi's biggest fans, but I don't think

she should be fired. This was not said on the air, as Ms. Ferraro mistakenly stated, it was a comedy routine. This just feels wrong to me.

[walldude]

54. Then why don't we go after Limbaugh, O'Reilly,

Coulter, Malkin, Beck and many others who say shit like this on a DAILY BASIS. Randi may have gone over the top but I'm certainly not going to try to get her fired for it. Frankly this whole campaign could be better spent going after the ACTUAL OPPONENTS, but that would fall on deaf ears, there apparently are no better people to fuck with than progressives who have been here for us from day 1.

[Beacool]

91. Exactly!!!

This board oozes hypocrisy. God forbid anything negative is said about the great Obama, but Hillary is fair game and a two bit radio host is allowed to call her a whore without any consequences. It feels soooo nice to know that this place is "Democratic".

:puke:

[kenfrequed]

140. What do you expect?

As Democrats the two weakest candidates in terms of policy were pushed forth by the media in a gush of wild celebrity news nonsense. All the candidates that had distinct views on foreign and domestic policy were handed their hats by Blitzer and company. Is it any wonder that campaigns so predicated on mood, emotion, and feeling have created such vitriol on both sides?

How can rational converations be even held when the candidates are so similar in terms of policy and their followings both seem so completely irrationally based.

[liberal1973]

82. What?

You clearly have no idea what your talking about.

[Upton]

18. You're right

this is being taken way too far. To actually call for the firing of a liberal talk show host because she doesn't back your candidate? Or said a couple words that don't pass the speech police? I expect this crap from Repubs, not real Democrats.

[Bjorn Against]

21. I would buy this argument if everyone who wanted a nationally syndicated radio show could get one...

As it is though most people don't get three hours a day five days a week to speak their minds to millions of people across the country. There are issues with media consolidation that need to be addressed, but Randi Rhodes does not have a first amendment right to be paid to be on the airwaves every day.

I think to compare this with the McCarthy era cheapens what actually happened in that era. There are ways in which the McCarthy era is being repeated, however Randi Rhodes is not a good example of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. It is the pattern

Donahue, Malloy, Rhodes, Bernie Ward... see the pattern now?

I'll have to ask... who's next? And what will be the excuse?

[Bjorn Against]

46. Again, the issue is media consolidation...

People are going to get fired from time to time for saying things on the air, there are times where I would think they deserve it and other times in which I wouldn't think it was justified. The big problem is not these individual hosts though, it is that there are only a tiny number of corporations that control practically the entire media and thus there is not enough diversity in the voices that we do hear. If we had more diverse programming and got the media out of the hands of the few and into the hands of the many then they would not be able to silence the good voices. Sure they can fire a person from one station, but if that person's voice was valued they could easily go to a different station. With a consolidated media pretty much all the networks are the same and there is no where else to go. The solution is to break up the media conglomerates. Honestly though, I am glad that Randi Rhodes is gone I never really thought she was helping progressives in any way, all she did was scream at people and the people she screamed at were not always the enemy. She screamed at fellow progressives even when they had the mildest of disagreements. I hope Sam Seder gets her spot, he was always a much better host.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. You are right on media consolidation

but don't think she is gone.

After that by the way, wiht all this circular firing squad, not only say hi to President McCain but kiss good bye to whatever remains of the US Constution

And you helped along...

Damn this dystopia some of you insist on inhabiting is too damn scary.

[Bjorn Against]

76. I helped along?

You obviously haven't read all that I have posted condemning the shredding of the Constitution.

But I am not going to claim that Randi Rhodes has a Constitutional right to a huge million dollar contract for a three hour radio show no matter how much you want me to claim she does.

She is going to be replaced by another progressive, this is not a case of political speech being silenced. If another radio station wants to hire her I am not going to protest, and I will keep insisting that we break up the media conglomerate to hopefully give her a better chance at that happening. I want diverse voices in the media, but I am not going to claim that Air America is just like the McCarthy commission because they have decided that they can do better than Randi Rhodes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. Neither am I, by the way, don't bet on her going anywhere

lawyers are involved

BUT you should be worried, if you love the Constitution that much, that this is happening over off colored comments (which I don't agree with btw), at a comedy show, OFF AAR's dime.

You applauding this helps to justify the precedent. That's all

By the way... Naomi Woilf said that at one point we will all have to decide to either shut up or fully follow what the state wants... ironic that AAR has taken a role in this creeping fascism.

As I said there is a pattern with AAR

[Bjorn Against]

92. I think she should have been replaced a long time ago, this is not about the Constitution...

I don't have a problem with them replacing crappy hosts, and she was just grating to listen to. This was not the first time she said something disgusting. I don't even like Hillary, but the word "whore" should not be used in that fashion. It would be just like calling Obama the N-word, it is just hateful terminology. It is not adding anything to the debate at all.

I would not have been upset with Air America if they decided not to fire her, but I am not going to cry over the loss of a host that has never been a good representative for the left anyways. I would much rather see Sam Seder get his show back, he was a MUCH better host and he would be far more deserving of that time slot.

And stop bringing the Constitution into this, because this is not a Constitutional issue. The government is not involved in any way, and the fact is Air America sponsored the event Randi Rhodes was speaking at. As I said before, she has no Constitutional right to a radio contract.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Would hyou like me to bring CIA then? Even if retired?

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/03/air-americas-randy-rhodes-suspended-we-did-it/#comments

If that does not send shivers down your back I don't know what will....

But that is A CLASSIC from CIA operations in Latin America

Try connecting dots ok

[Bjorn Against]

101. No, if the CIA had anything to do with this then it would send shivers down my spine.

Unless I see evidence though I am not going to assume the CIA had anything to do with this, and your link does not provide evidence of that as far as I can see. Randi Rhodes used sexist language during an event sponsored by her employer, I would get fired if I was speaking at an event sponsored by my employer and I said those words as well. I just don't see any Constitutional argument here.

On edit: I see now that Larry Johnson was once a part of the CIA, and if he used that influence to get her fired then I would be concerned. But I don't know how much influence he really had in this ordeal, so I am not about to jump and say the CIA influenced Air America.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. I know you don't see it

I see a pro going after somebody using tactics and techniques that have been honed, oh since oh Guatemala 1956

So yes, that sends shivers down my back given the history of CIA operations inside the US as well

Oh and I am not saying CIA did it... not yet... not enough evidence or information yet.

Whispers of this were present in the 1970s until there were hearings and Contrielpro was exposed.

Just keep your eyes open.

Given they are targeting a second radio host...

[rinsd]

139. I don't see the pattern. You have Good Guy, TinFoil, Drunk, Child Pornographer

How dare you put Donahue in with that group of lunatics!

[lwcon]

26. Wow. "Big fucking whore" = "dared criticize"

And, of course, she was talking about a fellow Democrat whose voting record is nearly identical to her preferred candidate's.

On top of that, the orthodoxy of virtually the entire MSM is to canonize Obama and trash the Clintons. Have you somehow missed that?

Finally, your post is an insult those who were persecuted under McCarthyism, comparing them to that classless twit.

At long last, have you no sense of decency?

___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Look at pattern, once again

Donahue, Malloy, Rhodes...

Now if you think that taking somebody off the air for saying something OFF THE AIR, that is off color, even if it is not language I would use, is fine

Then essentially you agree with orthodoxy

We call that a chilling effect.

now as to their policies, no argument from me... there is not enough light between them,,, but this NOT about the candidates, but what we are seeing in the country

What you think McCarthey got to the end of his project overnight?

[lwcon]

60. The orthodoxy on AAR is...

... to call the Clintons racists from morning to night.

The orthodoxy for the rest of the media is to call her a shrill, polarizing, power-mad, lying, low-blow artist who's bent on destroying her party. In what world is trashing the Clintons and favoring Obama bucking any orthodoxy?


___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Damn I lisen to AAR and lemee see

Thom Hartmann was talking the economy this morning with Ravi Bathra, hardly a partisan conversation unless you consider that Doctor Batrha hates both parties (ok not hate, dislikes) because of how badly they are managing the economy.

Nope, no clintons are racists there.

Sam covered for Randhi and he was talking Iraq

Maddow was doing her political analysis shitick... some of it covered the horse race, so I guess you could call that hate

Then I went to Malloy since I wanted to get his take on this... and oh the stories he told... which means I will have to catch the other two shows later on

Oh and I don't listen to Lionel, so you got me.

I don't think you have listened for a while, but most of the hosts, except Rhandhi have not come out for any of the candidates, well Hartmann said he liked Edwards best but would be a yellow dog in November.

So I guess I will call BS on it

[Whisp]

37. lots of comedians with raunchy schtick - Bill Hicks, eg.

should he have been fired or not allowed to perform? I remember Richard Pryor in his early years - omg, my mother almost had a stroke right in front of us hearing some of his stuff.

you know, when I first heard of this story today, my knee jerk reaction was to be shocked at what Randi said and thought it was a very stupid thing to do on her part. but I should have followed what I've been trying to train myself to for stories like these. Let it stew for a bit then weigh in, do some thinnin' first - things are rarely the way they are portrayed on the media - our chains are being yanked all the time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. OMG, Richard Pryor... what about Robin Williams

Oh my god, the first time my mom sat down to watch a comedy show, she left the room.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Lenny Bruce

Soupy Sales

The Smothers Brothers

Randi at least has good company.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Yep

[EFerrari]

89. Before you go on, you check the language requirements for the venue.

Every time.

[apocalypsehow]

28. I agree with you 100%. I disagree with what Randi said, but absolutely defend her right to say it.

But I'm afraid you'll find that the HRC boosters believe in a concept called "free speech for me but not for thee" instead of the actual 1st Amendment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Why I reached for the flame suit

with plenty of retardant

[Kaleva]

43. Call Randi a "whore" at her forum

and my guess one will be banned in short order for doing such. Many a free speech advocate have been tomb stoned here at DU.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Did you read the fine print when you joined DU?

The fine print, aka the board rules are extensive.

Anyhoo... I've run Internet boards, and I had the if you use that language you are out of here... but that was on MY DIME on my Board and where kids may be present.

This was an ADULT COMEDY CLUB... see the difference?

Nope, absolutely not

[dsc]

66. No it wasn't

it was an affiliate meeting. That is a huge difference.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. It was a fund raiser for an affiliate

She was the guest speaker. AAR did not pay for her trip.

[dsc]

102. She was representing them

You can spin this until the cows come home and give birth to aliens but she was at work. She wasn't at some random club doing random things.

[Tunkamerica]

97. Yeah you can hear all the boos...

...or shocked silence from the audience. Obviously some of the people there thought it was appropriate language and didn't have any problem voicing their approval. You'd think if it was some staid event they would have hired a different speaker, or not reacted enthusiastically when their speaker skewed so far from her on-air personality which they had hired to speak. Presumably, if they had not wanted her to speak her opinions they would have given her a specially prepared PC script from which to read.

[skepticscott]

124. The fact that the on-site audience

didn't seem to mind is irrelevant. This was a highly visible public statement that she, as a member of the media, should have known might be more widely distributed and would reflect badly on her employer.

[Kaleva]

88. I'm using the Randi subject

to express my view on a broader subject and maybe I ought to look for a more appropriate thread.

[Whisp]

136. Exactly! this is all about WHO was called those names.

If Randi had said that about Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin, I laugh to think there would be this kind of reaction.

This is Animal Farm at work here, folks. some pigs are more equal than other pigs.

it's WRONG WRONG WRONG.

I don't listen to Randi, she aggravates me. Her style of conversation of screaming conversation and interruption reminds me of how my sister talks sometimes and it drives me up a wall and I just can't listen. But that has got Nothing to do with the whole situation.

[Catherina]

32. I am SO with you!

I read the news at work and got sick, then I looked at DU and saw short-sighted people celebrating. I never thought I'd see the day when people would be celebrating such a thing. It's chilling and also the reason many people are scared of what they call the Democratic Party's "big government".

I came back to the Democratic Party to help it turn to a new direction and leave behind the old polarizations that kept decent people divided. When I saw all the cheering this afternoon, it chilled me to the bone.

Thanks for your excellent post. It's the first one I saw tonight and I feel better already knowing that not everyone has lost their damn mind. Rec'd.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. This reaffirms my feeling that I'd better remain an Indie

and to truly be afraid of my government, regardless of WHO is in charge

[bobthedrummer]

41. Sidebar: McCarthy was a Democrat that joined the Republicans...

Hillary is DLC, Chair of the DLC's American Dream Initiative (it isn't the dream I have-nope)
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ka.cfm?kaid=137

The DLC is a RW political machine inside the Democratic Party that hates and abandoned the traditional Democratic base decades ago-the DLC was founded by RWers like Al From and Will Marshall, the DLC's leading policy think tank was funded by the extreme RW powerhouse The Bradley Foundation-all that is in the OP of the archived GD thread below.

"Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. I know the history...

and over a letter to AAR I pointed out that the smell of creeping fascism coming from them has a certain ironacy to it

[bobthedrummer]

51. I know you do nadinbrzezinski-and I've learned some things from you btw.

Thanks.
:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. You welcome

What scares the pants out of me is the willingness to surrender rights even here

[Redbear]

55. I was surprised at the suspension

but I don't see it as parallel to McCarthyism.

If they suspended her for her political views, that would be McCarthyism.

If they suspended her for using vile language that her employer feels makes them look bad, its a silly response, but it happens to radio personalities periodically.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Given the pattern we have seen since Donahue I am not sure

this is just you said a few bad words...

[blue sky at night]

59. Hey Nadin........

you are really rocking tonight! I love it and I love you too, you keep giving them hell girl!

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Blushes, thanks

[americanstranger]

64. I've posted this elsewhere today.

The most tragic aspect of this whole episode is that the suspension was encouraged by Larry Johnson at No Quarter. He encouraged his readers to demand that AAR suspend her, and when it happened he beat his chest on his blog with a celebratory post.

Opinions may differ over whether the suspension was enough or too much. Being familiar with the radio industry, I know that AAR was probably within its rights, and this type of discipline happens literally every week.

But I am extremely disturbed by Johnson's willingness to go after someone on his own side, and the glee he showed upon getting a good liberal suspended from her job.

That disgusts me. We're supposed to be better than that.

- as

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. That adds a layer to the circular firing squad

hmm...

[americanstranger]

78. Johnson was responsible for posting the video to YouTube.

He mentioned as much today - that one of the people on his staff converted the video and posted it to YouTube.

And from what I read in the comments to his post:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/03/air-americas-randy-rhodes-suspended-we-did-it/#comments

They're already getting ready to target another redio personality, a guy named Roland Martin whom I've never heard of.

And he's now mobilizing his readers to pressure AAR to replace Rhodes with - wait for it - Taylor Marsh.

This stinks. Larry Johnson is a fucking punk.

- as

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Wasn't he a RW operative and working for the Campaign?

That raises this to a whole new level of... creepiness.

Oh and he was CIA, and he was a guest of Randhi many a times...

Ok the dot connecting ain't looking good.... FUCK!

Contrielpro comes to mind as well as a few other operations.

In fact, what I said about McCarthy is not that far off... oh god

[Whisp]

110. Roland Martin is a frequent guest on CNN

he has done some really good commentary on all this Wright nonsense (a voice in the wilderness compared to most of those other yapping clowns) and I would not be surprised if the sights are on him as well.

Larry Johnson sounds like he's been hit in the head too many times by his superduper spy shoephone. He's mean and ugly and fits well in the mean and ugly campaign of the Clintons.

[futuro]

67. Are you suggesting Air America violated the constitution?

I thought companies had the right to fire whoever they want over hateful comments.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Not quite... if you are OFF the job

which is what layers will be discussing, (or are discussing) then you have some freedom of speech


If she had said this on the job... yep, then they have a right to do whatever they want.

What is more, if nobody had a phone camera and posted this to You Tube what is the change we would be having this conversation?

[EFerrari]

79. If any of my radio friends on or off of AAR had done this

they would have risked their jobs, too.

Maybe back channel there was a vendetta, I have no way of knowing. If there was, she walked right into its arms with this behavior.

I hope she gets her job back but, radio is not for sissies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. No, it ain't for sissies and the egos are huge

but I am now seeing a pattern... critical folks are driven out... under any excuse

Start with Donahue and go from there.

This is the creeping sense of fascism that Naomi Wolf described so well in her book, the End of America

[EFerrari]

85. Once Doug was banned from a venue for kicking the owner's nephew

out of his dressing room.

Sometimes it's just about dickheads. lol

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Yeah but read upthread... about the Larry Johnson connection

start connecting dots...

This has nothing to do with dickheads... I fear I am close with my McCarthy analogy here

[EFerrari]

93. The shirts will deep six you much sooner than the political hacks will.

You may be right. But, the simpler reason is just as likely.

I've never met a more uptight bunch of people than radio shirts. Must be those big fines they're always afraid of paying in their essential cheapness. :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Look at this though

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/03/air-americas-randy-rhodes-suspended-we-did-it/#comments

You know of the MO in Latin America...

Then stinking dots... is not something I like to see

[Beacool]

103. Please, don't you even dare compare it to McCarthyism!!!

How about if Randi had called Michelle Obama a "big fucking whore", how would you really feel about it??? How about if a right wing personality had said it??

Those of you who are not offended that a Democratic former first lady, senator and presidential candidate was crassly insulted by some radio host are truly pathetic.

I dislike Obama intensely, but I would have thought it just as inappropriate if someone had said something similar about him using racist words.

It is sheer hypocrisy to defend someone's misbehavior solely because one may not like the recipient of the insult.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. She has a right to say it...especially if at a semi private function OFF the clock

shocked? I fear you are since you confused me with a supporter

Now here is another free clue for you. I don't agree with the language

Now take a look at this and start connecting some dots

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/03/air-americas-randy-rhodes-suspended-we-did-it/#comments

[kerry-is-my-prez]

104. She called two women "fucking whores." Fucking idiots or something else would have been ok.

Why must people resort to the word whores when describing women. I didn't see them doing anything "whoreish."

Maybe ignorant or some other word wouldn't have been so bad. Too often the word is used as an insult towards women just to be hurtful and degrading. Another woman should know better.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. I don't defend the language... and to use an analogy

that you might understand, I don't like Nazis either, but I will defend their right to use that racist language to my last breath

In fact, if I were at that event I probably would have stood up and left the show... that is MY prerrogative.

But it is also my prerrogative to point out that there is problem here

[Breeze54]

106. Thank You for the wise words, nadinbrzezinski

I don't always agree with Randi Rhodes, or Sam Seder or Tom Hartman or Jon Elliot but I still
support their right to have their own opinions and afaik, Randi was at a private function doing
a stand up routine. AAR should have stayed out of this and she shouldn't have been suspended, imo.

I wonder how people would feel if their bosses suspended them from work because of the political
signs they had in their front yards or the political t-shirts they wear on a Saturday morning or
what they said at the local pub on a Saturday night during the game? It's total BS!

:kick: & Recommended

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Here is something for you to chew on

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/03/air-americas-randy-rhodes-suspended-we-did-it/#comments

[Breeze54]

113. Ha! Funny!

And look who's at the top of the list! Very interesting. ;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. Ain't this a laughing riot?

Damn that short story I am writing (future dystopia) will have some MAJOR changes now

Of course don't expect to sell it, not in this environment.

Heinlein would have never sold either

[Catherina]

149. What a vile bunch over there.

I wonder who flyarm and velvet are :shrug:

[Catherina]

117. I wish I could recommend your post

I see some of the same people who say they could be victimized and lose their job for things they do or how they act away from work, usually sexual, applauding this. I'm stunned at the disconnect.

[romana]

118. Slurs

I have very conflicted feelings about this, but in general I think RR should've been suspended.

Rather than Imus, or hypothetical situations, this calls to mind Ann Coulter calling John Edwards a "faggot." If I recall, she lost some syndication deals because many people objected to what she said, at a political event, to get a cheap laugh. It seems like this is similar. "Faggot" and "whore" are both deeply offensive slurs directed at particular groups and shouldn't be tolerated by anyone. I know someone has been posting definitions of "whore," and even though it is sometimes used to describe men, the term is inherently sexist. Like all slurs, it should have no place in our discourse, especially our discourse about presidential candidates.

Just my two cents. :)

[susankh4]

125. Good analogy!

Thanks.

[Ordr]

128. So, essentially, your concept of right and wrong should be what we all must stand under?

[susankh4]

126. It's about ratings and advertisers

nothing more.

If calling Hillary and Geraldine "whores" boosted her ratings and got AAR more advertisers... it would have been fine by them.

Alas, it didn't.

Dems da breaks, Randi. Next time... know your audience!

[otohara]

135. After This...What Ratings & Advertisers?

many people who support Sen. Clinton have probably already turned off the incredibly stupid Ms. Rhodes, and no doubt AAR will lose more listeners after this if she is allowed to return. Which in my opinion is very iffy right now. As more and more people find out about this and complain, AAR will face a tough decision.

[Ordr]

127. You're absolutely right.

Absolutely, 100% right.

[shadowknows69]

129. I hate that this happened but I understand it

And I don't defend the vile content of Randi's bit, but I defend her right to say it. I'm from the Lenny Bruce school of thought on comedy/free speech. If you're given a public forum to speak in and you're not getting arrested, you're not talking loud enough. That being said I understand AA's decision. I've been in broadcasting and a public figure for a time and it was made very clear to me that my conduct off the clock would reflect on my station and consequences would be felt for overtly controversial behavior.

Edit to add: luckily my program director was too lazy to check up on my hijinks or I would have been in trouble. Never made the papers though. heh.

[baldguy]

130. Randi was suspended for expressing her political views.

AAR *PAYS* her to express her political views.

AAR mgmt is full of cowards.

[shadowknows69]

132. Most corporate broadcasting management is

[DemVet]

131. Comparing this to McCarthyism is just plain silly.

She is a radio host that put her employer in a bad light during a function FOR her employer. She got what she deserved.

[wrando]

137. who's the whore?

now she's free to whore for Obama 24/7

bill from ct

[baldguy]

138. A whore is someone who sells-out her principles for money, power & influence.

[wrando]

141. randi is a fool

she simply was done in by her own hatred

I love it!

Bill from ct

[baldguy]

142. I geuss you don't know who the guy in the pic with Hil is.

[wrando]

145. I know RMS

keep you friends close and your enemies closer

bill from ct

[baldguy]

147. Keeping your enemies close does not include kissing their feet.

[wrando]

150. I didn't see any feet being kissed

or was Dick Morris at the meeting?

Bill from ct

[2rth2pwr]

143. If we support Randi's suspension we face the danger that the blood of millions will flow?!

Satire, right?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

144. She was *not* deprived of her freedom

She said something insanely stupid, works for a radio station and was fired. She can still go out and say it today..

[Name removed]

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