What solution to the Michigan / Florida situation would you support?

[FlyingSquirrel]

Poll question: What solution to the Michigan / Florida situation would you support?

I know this has been beaten to death and I'm also sick and tired of MI and FL.. but besides Superdelegates, they are the crux of the problem right now. If we just had a simple election where peoples' votes could not be discounted and some people's votes were not 10,000 times more important, we wouldn't be where we are today - in complete disarray, polarized to the extreme, with people threatening to not support the eventual nominee if it's not their chosen one.

Let's leave Superdelegates out of it in this thread and just discuss, (hopefully with an open mind on both sides), what possible solution to this MI/FL conundrum could be acceptable to both camps.

And please, if all you have is an extreme view on the subject of MI and FL - on either side - I've already heard it and so have most others.

In that spirit, I left out the possibilities "Do Not Count MI/FL period" and "Count them as-is with no votes going to Obama in Michigan" as being too extreme on either side to be reasonable solutions.

Option 1 = 0 net gain for either
Option 2 = 19 net gain for HRC in Pledged Delegates
Option 3 = 28 net gain for HRC in Pledged Delegates
Option 4 = 38 net gain for HRC in Pledged Delegates
Option 5 = 56 net gain for HRC in Pledged Delegates

Also, this poll doesn't really address Superdelegates for either state - trying to keep things as simple as possible. For background info, however, 15 Superdelegates in MI/FL have endorsed Clinton, 5 Superdelegates in MI/FL have endorsed Obama, and 35 Superdelegates in MI/FL are currently uncommitted. If Pledged Delegates are seated, Superdelegates would probably be a separate issue. (I remember reading somewhere that the Superdelegates from each state may not be disqualified regardless)

[Zynx]

1. Florida at a half count as is, Michigan 50/50.

50/50 for both is silly.

[FlyingSquirrel]

2. You're probably right. Too late to remove it - but whatever the lowest

number of delegates gained by Hillary will probably be the winner in this poll regardless, given the current dynamics here at DU.

Actually, that first option might be helpful because it will eliminate the most pro-Obama vote and we can focus on the remaining responses that much more.

I hope that the Clinton and Obama campaigns can find some common ground in real life because we really need to get past this situation.

Personally I don't think any of the options would change the dynamics of the race at this point, but some kind of penalty has to happen. I chose the third option which would give 28 more to Hillary. If Superdelegates were seated from the two states, she'd get another 10 plus the possibility of winning a majority of the 35 uncommitted supers from those two states.

That'd be a maximum possibility of a gain of 73 for her, but likely it would be more like 60 or so. To me that's a reasonable solution both camps should be able to agree upon.

[Beregond2]

3. Solution?

No solution is needed because there is no problem. They chose to eliminate themselves, and that is that.

[FlyingSquirrel]

4. That's one of those extreme POV's I was talkin' about.

We need to include these two states in the process with some kind of penalty. That's what is probably going to happen. This thread is not about dismissing them, it's about including them and how it could be done.

[aquarius dawning]

5. It's all about "including" them in such a way so as to ensure that Barack Obama maintains his lead

while simultaneously ensuring that there will be no hard feelings for Barack Obama in November. That's what matters most. :eyes:

[FlyingSquirrel]

6. I can see how you'd say that

especially since some have said they won't be counted until all other states have been counted and then only if they don't change the result.

However, the only one I left off the poll was the most extreme option of not giving Obama any of the vote in MI.

I personally wouldn't mind the option giving Hillary 178 and Obama 122, plus seating all the superdelegates from each state. It seems completely reasonable to me, but would be shot down by those who insist that there should be a penalty (and by those who are still incensed that Hillary left her name on the ballot in MI, but let's not start that flame-up all over again).

If Obama wins the remaining states by a margin which could not be overcome by MI and FL being seated in the above manner, it would make it a moot point and for the sake of party unity that would be the best outcome. But if Hillary makes a comeback to the point where those 56 delegates, 10 superdelegates, and possibly another 15 gain (say, 25-10 split among undecided supers in MI/FL)... well that's another matter.

So really, if Obama wins the pledged delegate count by, say, 100 (he's currently ahead by 164) then there's no way MI and FL, if counted as-is, could reverse that lead. That will probably come true, but then the question is the remaining superdelegates. (Dangit, seems like they have to be part of the conversation) And some will still say that if MI and FL had been in the mix long ago, Obama would never have gained the momentum he has because he'd never have pulled away and begun to look like he was probably going to win.

I hate this whole thing. It's like some kind of unsolvable puzzle. It couldn't be much worse.

[aquarius dawning]

9. "I hate this whole thing. It's like some kind of unsolvable puzzle. It couldn't be much worse."

It's a god damned catastrophe. I actually like to call it the political equivalent of Katrina and as far as I'm concerned, Howard Dean bears the brunt of the responsibility the same as George Bush bears the brunt of the responsibility for the New Orleans disaster.

[anigbrowl]

8. Um, he maintains his lead no matter what

I've been pointing this out for months, which is why I voted for 'Count MI/FL as-is; MI Uncommitted pledged to Obama (178 HC, 122 BO)'.

[anigbrowl]

7. 50/50 is dumb and will only upset people

I voted for Count MI/FL as-is; MI Uncommitted pledged to Obama (178 HC, 122 BO). I would add that the states ought to lose their superdelegates.

So she gets 56 extra delegates. Oh noes. The next day she wakes up with a hangover and realizes she's still way behind.