Clinton asks ND pledged delegates to switch.

[bunnies]

Clinton and Obama Fight for N.D. Votes -- Again
Clinton Asks Obama's Pledged Delegates to Switch
By ELOISE HARPER and SUNLEN MILLER
April 5, 2008

Sen. Hillary Clinton made a blunt appeal to North Dakota delegates to switch their support to her, despite the fact that Sen. Barack Obama handily defeated her in the state's caucus in February.

(snip)

Clinton made it clear to North Dakota Democrats last night that she believes there is no such thing as a pledged delegate and highlighted that stubborn streak in her appeal for delegates to switch from Obama to her when the Democratic national party holds its nominating convention this August.

(snip)

Obama did not appear to be upset by his rival's persistent push for delegates he seemingly had already won.

"No matter how long or heated this primary contest gets, I believe that either Sen. Clinton or I would do a far better job of leading this country over the next four years than John McCain. That is something that we can all agree to," Obama said and offered up his feelings for the unity of the Democratic party after the extended primary. "So I don't worry abut the fact that this contest has gone on a long time. We're doing fine."

(snip)

link: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=4596305&page=1

How the HELL can she go around talking about "voters should be heard!" when at the SAME time she seeks to reverse the voters' decision?! I REALLY would like somebody to explain this logic to me because I just dont get it.

[tyne]

1. Nor do I

[Mooney]

2. She still thinks voters should be heard.

They should be heard and then have their votes overturned.

[Divine Discontent]

4. fascist-lite is how she's behaving... she could never ascertain b*shian levels of bad behavior EOM

[rodeodance]

19. TAKE your Leaders advice in the OP --chill out (paraphasing of course)

[PoliticalAmazon]

95. Problems with people criticizing Hillary? Then get her to straighten up her act. n/t

[roguevalley]

105. if obama was doing this, I can only imagine your spew. this should

be enough for people to know that to Hillary Clinton the rules don't apply. They only apply to the little people who don't have zillions and a mania for power.

[Divine Discontent]

114. exactly! could you imagine the venomous tone & words from people

if the circumstances were exact opposite - they'd be saying 10x more vicious things about Obama and his supporters. It's shocking to see her throwing her name, millions, and position around, just to continue this mockery of a chance she thinks she has...

[bunnies]

5. exactly.

Camp Clinton: We'll give you a chance, but if I dont win we'll know you have made the wrong decision and we will do everything in our power to correct your mistake for you. No need to thank us.

[Yurovsky]

24. "You are free to do as we tell you!" ... repeat ad nauseum

Last call for democracy ... W pushed it into the grave, and HRC wants to start shoveling the dirt on top.

[Divine Discontent]

3. Hillary to voters - "screw your silly votes - I want the delegates to follow my orders!" eom

[PoliticalAmazon]

96. Yep. That's Ham-Fisted Hillary's approach to everything...

...Her approach is "I want it. I'm entitled to it. I can do anything I want to get it. You're wrong for criticizing me."

[Yael]

6. Of course she did. Thou shalt not question the queen!

The authoritarian queen of the lying, triangulating, DINO democrats, that is.

[OzarkDem]

7. Obama does this all the time

How is this news? How is it different if Hillary does it?

[loveangelc]

15. when?

[bunnies]

29. Please post a link to Obama asking pledged delegates to switch.

Thanks.

[Whisp]

30. the OP has a abc as a news source for this - where's yours?

put up.

[Whisp]

33. OzarkDem - I want to see a link to your claim....

or I am going to start Alerting on shit posts like yours.

yah, I'm sure you're so worried and have the eyeroll ready at hand - that solves it all for you.

[Erin Elizabeth]

Another request.

I'd like to see a link to a news story which cites Obama asking pledged delegates to switch over from a caucus or primary Hillary already won.

Thanks.

[wileedog]

42. Link?

[JayFredMuggs]

51. What's taking you so long in finding a link to your assertion??

Could it be that you LIED????

[Forkboy]

57. When you prove it someone will answer you. Until then......link or slink.

[cali]

99. it's a stinker. oops, I mean slinker. or both.

[Forkboy]

104. It's a shocking development, isn't it?

Who would have thought that OzarkDem would just spout nonsense? :shrug:

[bunnies]

61. 8 requests for proof so far. Still nothing? nt

[Lochloosa]

64. Make it 9.

[Umbram]

71. This poster has a long history of this sort of crap. (nt)

[bunnies]

74. So does HRC.

Coincidence? I think not.

[Whisp]

76. I have made a thread on your subject, OzarkDem...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5396624

you may find it more comfortable to post your sources in that room rather than this one.
i will keep that thread up for a reasonable amount of time until you find the time to visit and make your case.

If you avoid it or come linkless, I will be alerting on your ass every time you bring this LIE up again and encourage others to do so as well.

enough of this shit. time to pay the piper.

[bunnies]

87. No sources there either. Go figure. nt

[dchill]

86. Awwww, now you've done it...

Stepped right into it with nary a link to show. :crazy::nopity:

[bunnies]

97. WE'RE STILL WAITING!! nt

[Umbram]

116. I'm sure the link is coming soon. (nt)

[billyoc]

8. Can't hur to ask, as long as you don't mind getting laughed at.

But of course, then you could cite the laughter as another sexist attack. :eyes:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

40. here's one Super Delegate who aint gonna switch:

[Inuca]

103. I love Dorgan :-) n/t

[MNDemNY]

9. The voters were heard. They elected delagates. Hope they chose wisely.

Thems the rules! Re-Elect Al Gore.

[anonymous171]

13. The Rules also say you can't change primary dates without approval.

[MNDemNY]

16. What is your point?

[C_U_L8R]

10. Or else what??

They won't be on the ex-president's little list of "friends".
Phooey. I think people are starting to realize they don't need the Clintons

[bunnies]

32. They're making a list of Judas'.

All will suffer! bwaaahahahaha.

[C_U_L8R]

66. We're all dead to them now

maybe we can come back and haunt them : - )))

[bunnies]

69. I hope so....

I would take the greatest joy in being one of those ghosts! :)

[C_U_L8R]

75. boooooo ooooooooo ooooo

[bunnies]

81. LOL!

I'd be scarier. More like this:

:rofl:

[dkf]

11. Maybe she is giving her pledged delegates permission to switch to Obama.

[MNDemNY]

20. They do not need it.

[JayFredMuggs]

Maybe Hades is freezing over today, too!

And maybe the moon really is made of green cheese.

[stellanoir]

12. She knows no bounds

continually contradicts herself and distorts stuff.

It's really quite sad.

[Erin Elizabeth]

14. That's really low.

And desperation smells stinky.

[Zachstar]

17. So she says that ND does not count, then it does count and now they ought to vote for her?

WTF? It is called an insult when you treat people like idiots.

She will be lucky to get the delegates that she gets.

[DarienComp]

18. This is why she's losing.

She has no message other than what she thinks will work for her on any given day.

[flyarm]

21. this is bullshit their election is not till June 10th..she can ask anyone who fills out the paper

work to switch..this is called politics..grow a pair will ya obamabots!

anyone can be asked to switch their paper work..there are no delegates until after the damn election the election is June 10th for goodness sake!

i was asked in Fla to switch by Obama people..so big fucking deal..there weren't enough people in my county that filled out paper work for Obama so they asked if i would switch from Edwards to Obama..so big fucking deal!

it happens everywhere..are some of you new to politics..it seems so..because you are clueless.

fly..a 2004 Elected Dem Delegate for Florida..

grow up!

[bunnies]

36. North Dakota voted Feb 5.

For goodness sake yourself.

[MaineDem]

47. Right. They're electing National Delegates this weekend

Friday 4 April - Sunday 6 April 2008: State Convention. 13 of 21 delegates to the Democratic National Convention are allocated to presidential contenders reflecting the support for the presidential contenders at the State Convention. A mandatory 15 percent threshold is required in order for a presidential contender to be allocated National Convention delegates at the statewide level.

* 8 district delegates are to be allocated proportionally to presidential contenders based on the preferences among the convention participants as a whole. North Dakota has a single statewide congressional district.
* In addition, 5 delegates are to be allocated to presidential contenders based on the preferences among the convention participants as a whole.
o 3 at-large National Convention delegates
o 2 Pledged PLEOs

The remaining 8 National Convention delegates consist of

* 7 Unpledged PLEO delegates:
o 4 Democratic National Committee members.
o 3 Members of Congress (2 Senators and 1 Representative).
o 0 Governors.
o 0 Distinguished Party Leaders.
* 1 Unpledged "add-on" (selected on 4 April at the State Convention by a vote of all the caucuses).

These 8 delegates and will go to the Democratic National Convention officially "Unpledged".

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/ND-D.phtml

[bunnies]

55. The OP is about pledged aka already won delegates. nt

[MaineDem]

62. Correct. But they aren't being elected until this weekend.

There have been no pledged delegates in ND until now.

We're probably saying the same thing.

On edit, they are being elected tomorrow per their Delegate Selection Plan.

[bunnies]

67. You're right. We probably are.

And btw... hey neighbor! :hi:

[MaineDem]

68. Duh, I think I understand now

The delegates elected at the District Conferences are pledged delegates to the state convention.

The number who show up and state their preference at the state convention this weekend determine how the National Delegates are allocated. If those state convention delegates change their "pledge" it could change the allocation of delegates as determined at the caucuses in February.

I bet those are the delegates Hillary is after.

[flyarm]

48. silly me reading their state web site on their primary..

http://www.fvap.gov/pubs/vag/pdfvag/nd.pdf

is this their republican primary..it doesn't say..

[MaineDem]

52. That's for the other races; Presidential selection was by caucus

Same here in Maine. We have a June primary for all races other than President.

[bunnies]

54. Must be...

Here are the results from ND for Dems: http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/ND.html

[cali]

100. sure she can hilldroid, but hilldroid

there's no way that they will switch and hilly is just screwing herself again by saying shit like this. I love it, hilldroid. I don't want hilly to change a thing about the way she's campaigning and screwing herself.

[quantass]

22. Irks me immensely too -- Hilary Hypocricy -- "count the votes but at the same time voters shouldn't

count"

[AtomicKitten]

23. Obama is gracious while she continues to try to stab him in the back

with her crazy-making duplicitous message of giving a crap about hearing the will of the voters while at the same time desperately gaming the system. This whole mess has devolved into her only chance of prevailing is winning dirty, and it is pretty breathtaking realizing that she is perfectly fine with that.

FREE RANDI RHODES

[bunnies]

44. And how is it that voters are falling for it?!

It seems so obvious to me, by her behavior, that the will of the voters doesnt mean a damn thing. WHY dont people get it?? :banghead:

[AtomicKitten]

49. Because sometimes turning a blind eye is just plain easier than facing reality.

The denial required to suppress the truth of this election is pretty breathtaking. I see it clearly because I used to be a Clinton enforcer, blindly, without reason. But I got better ;) so we can only hope people being incited into a lather to defend this mess will too.

[bunnies]

65. And thats exactly how we ended up with GWB.

It kills me! It really does.

Glad you got better kitten! :loveya:

[AtomicKitten]

102. Exactly. Acquisition of power by not too subtle force.

Not this time. :)

Person by person, state by state ...

[JayFredMuggs]

53. I was VERY IMPRESSED by Obama's graciousness!

That was a really wise and diplomatic thing for him to say, and it in no way insulted Clinton, nor her die hard supporters.

He nailed it! AGAIN!

[AtomicKitten]

58. He invokes better angels by his example, and the disparity of behavior between them is day & night.

I have to constantly invoke zen to ride the wave of nausea and anger invoked by her increasingly disgusting campaign.

[roguevalley]

106. good strategy him walking calmly to victory and her flailing. I would do it too.

[AtomicKitten]

112. Calm dignity trumps batshit crazy every time!

:toast:

[rodeodance]

25. You go Hillary.

[bunnies]

35. Justify the logic for me Rodeo.

Seriously. How can you support this tactic? I dont get it.

[Umbram]

73. "Seriously. How can you support this tactic? I dont get it."

Answer - no integrity whatsoever.

[Erin Elizabeth]

41. You REALLY think this is good?

The same woman who has been screaming about counting all the votes? The same woman yelling about all the voter's voices being heard? The same woman who has been touting the democratic process? The same woman who said the day before the North Dakota convention that North Dakota doesn't COUNT? And now she's asking PLEDGED delegates to CHANGE their vote??? That's not right. They're PLEDGED. They CAN'T do that. I'm an Obama delegate. If the Clinton campaign asked me to change over I'd ask them when they lost their minds. Representing Obama for my precinct and district is what I have PLEDGED to do. I can't go back on that.

Do you not understand right and wrong? Or is it ok as long as your person is doing it?

That's sad.

[Forkboy]

60. "Or is it ok as long as your person is doing it?"

Cha-ching. Rodeo is one of DU's biggest hypocrites.

[guruoo]

79. HRC's giving their candidate exactly what THEY asked for...

In spades. Quid pro quo

[TheDoorbellRang]

26. I think it's possible there MAY be some switching

ND was a caucus state, just like IA. I'm not sure if they do things there like they did in Iowa, but if they do, the balance of delegates could conceivably shift a bit. In IA, remember, Obama gained 9 more delegates after their convention.

This weekend is ND's convention, and Hillary is on record just this past week of saying that the ND delegates don't count because it's a red state.

I wonder how the ND caucus delegates feel about that?:rofl:

[VolcanoJen]

31. Oh, yeh. I'm hoping she really runs with this in North Dakota.

Obama needs more delegates, and every time she pulls this crap, she loses delegates. :-)

You go, girl! Keep it up!!

[TheDoorbellRang]

43. I'll be watching to see if we have the revenge of the caucus states

So far I haven't been able to find out what they're doing this weekend at their convention, but I'm still looking. I don't think we have any ND DUers participating, AFAIK.

[johnnydrama]

98. All except one in iowa

were Edwards delegates, and since he dropped out of the race before their convention, I don't think anybody would chide them for picking a new side.

[VolcanoJen]

27. She didn't care about "all the voters being heard"...

... back when she knew for a FACT, a fact I say, that the campaign would end with her being annointed by Holy Unction on Super Tuesday.

[bunnies]

59. Bingo. What was it she said?

"It WILL be me".

[mmonk]

28. No one should switch before the convention and at the convention only in order

to have a nominee if one cannot be had any other way.

[rodeodance]

34. And onto MT for both of them tomorrow

The two candidates also will battle for votes tonight in Butte, Mont., when Democrats there hold their annual dinner. The Montana primary, which offers only a handful of delegates, is scheduled for June.

[intaglio]

39. Rodeodance, never answering a straight question

so again, how can you support this tactic?

[Divine Discontent]

115. exactly, rodeo cannot support it so they jabber on about going to another state...

it's all like the little kid pretending to be a grown up, and drive the car, all awhile, the adults know there's no way that kid is getting the key, but the kid keeps on acting like they're driving!

[LaurenG]

37. Does she think we don't notice this vacillation?

I am beginning to think no one is "home" there. She isn't even trying to PRETEND she's on the up and up.


She's making herself look overwhelmingly dishonest, can't her campaign managers get her back on track? This is beginning to look pathological.

[bunnies]

45. Sad fact is that some people DONT notice it.

Where's this media thats supposedly against her?!

[cascadiance]

38. At first my failing eyes thought this thread title said "NO pledged delegates to switch"

and I was about to come in here and praise Hillary for finding some ethical foundation in her campaign!

But nope, quite the opposite, as I'd earlier unpleasantly expected!

[JayFredMuggs]

46. OK, it's easy to explain, really, and I'm surprised you couldn't figure it out yourself

She's Hillary Clinton, and she's "ENTITLED" to win that small state of ND, even though it's too small to matter.

She's Hillary and she should get her way! Didn't you know that?

:nopity:

[bunnies]

50. Ah yes. The 'its-my-turn, voters-be-damned' logic.

Power to the Clinton loyalists!

[Rubiconski2009]

56. Good Grief!!! Hillary needs to just STOP!!

Hillary has done this to herself, she has lowered herself to these terms and she has done so continuously over the last 2 months. Democrats to not want a Nominee who has to stoop to such behavior as Hillary has engaged in. It weakens our Party and minimizes our chances at regaining the White House in November. Obama's clear consistent message of Hope for our country and his desire to stay on the high road and remain honest will ring true to all delegates - plain and super - and resonate with the electorate in November!

[Vinca]

63. Apparently, in Hillaryland, it's just fine to disenfranchise Obama voters.

This woman is a real piece of work.

[bunnies]

72. She doesnt need them in November anyway.

Oh. Wait.

[roguevalley]

107. repugs get in line and whoever is next, no matter how awful they are

gets to run. It is their turn. I guess growing up Republican, Hillary hasn't got the autocratic 'we' out of her system.

[pnwmom]

70. Shouldn't she have a chance to appeal to Edwards' pledged delegates?

And any others belonging to candidates who are no longer in the race?

The fact is, the rules have always said that delegates are up for grabs. If we want to change the rules, then we should. But we shouldn't complain about HRC following them.

[bunnies]

77. ND voted Feb 5th. Edwards wasnt in the race.

Shes asking for Obamas delegates. You think thats right?

[pnwmom]

80. I think she should be allowed to follow the rules. Period. n/t

[GarbagemanLB]

82. The rules says FL and MI don't count, so I agree with you! Follow the rules!

[bunnies]

83. self delete: dupe.

[bunnies]

84. Thats fine in theory.

But not so much in practice. Do you really think its good to overturn the voters?

And re: the rules... what about MI and FL? Rules dont apply then. Right?

[pnwmom]

88. I've never argued that MI and Florida should be seated.

I thought it was a better solution for there to be new elections in both cases. If Obama and Clinton can reach some sort of compromise, that's fine with me. Otherwise, I won't be pushing for seating them.

[bunnies]

89. You did argue that rule should be followed though.

Were you only referring to specific rules? For me... the rules thing is all or nothing. And I agree... new elections in both cases.

[pnwmom]

94. No, I wasn't. That's why I'm NOT arguing for seating those delegates. n/t

[FlaGranny]

78. Sure she can, but

appealing to Obama's delegates isn't very appealing.

[kevinmc]

85. HA .. Obama made her look like a desperate ass by he way he handled it.... n/t

[UALRBSofL]

90. This is good news for the Clinton supporters if the ND delegates switched to her

That would be great and I'd have to do a happy dance. Thanks for posting the article, OP.

[bunnies]

91. It would be "good news" if Obama supporters were disenfranchised?

Doubt you'd be dancing in November.

[GarbagemanLB]

92. considering he/she supports Hillary, McCain wouldn't be much of a step-down.

[bunnies]

93. Seems like McCain is choice #2 for these Clinton supporters.

They're the REAL dems ya know. :eyes:

[rodeodance]

101. You look real FOOLISH saying such a stupid thing!! Where do you get

get off making such a claim!!






......Seems like McCain is choice #2 for these Clinton supporters.

They're the REAL dems ya know. :eyes:

[roguevalley]

109. since hillary people are good with disenfranchising voters with

poaching delegates, McCain and the pigs are not such a stretch.

[thewiseguy]

108. I thought Hillary cared about people's vote?

[izzybeans]

110. The logic is "ends justify the means"

[slinkerwink]

111. I ask you to overturn the will of the people! Says the emperess

[sandnsea]

113. This is what I said she was going to do

This is exactly what I posted about the other day, she said she was going to do it at a news conference. She's lying about MI & FL on the one hand, let them vote, waaaa - and then when people don't vote for her, she tries to overturn them anyway. What's not to hate? I don't get why she has any support at all.