Too bitter to vote for the Dem nominee? A McCain presidency could cost you your health insurance

[PA Democrat]

I strongly urge anyone who is saying that they won't vote in the general election for the Democratic nominee unless it is THEIR candidate, to read this.

McCain plans to pay for his plan by eliminating the tax deduction currently allowed for businesses for employee health insurance expenses.

Consider this: Many employers are NOT going to continue to pay for employees' health insurance if there is no tax incentive to do so. So where does that leave YOU?

McCain's plan would give individuals a $2500 per year tax credit, and families a $5000 per year tax credit to help pay for health insurance. And there is no requirement to waive exclusions for preexisting conditions. I urge you to see what kind of health insurance you could purchase (if you even qualify based upon a lack of preexisting health problems) for the amount of the tax credit offered. If you are older, or have health issues, you are screwed.

McCain sells his plan saying it emphasizes "freedom" and I don't know about you, but when any Republican starts talking about "freedom," I am suspicious.

So how does McCain think his plan will lower health care costs?

He says that consumers would be able to purchase insurance from ANY company operating within the US instead of just within their state as is currently the case. You know the meme: the free market as the solution to all problems. On this issue I would love to hear the opinions of people who actually work in health care and have to deal with insurance company billings? How would adding HUNDREDS of insurance companies to the current list of those you deal with affect costs?

There's more at the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/11/mccain.healthcare.ap/index.html

[bahrbearian]

1. We have health insurance?

[PA Democrat]

3. If you currently do not have insurance, McCain's plan probably

wouldn't help much unless you are young, single and have no health issues. If your employer provides some level of health insurance benefits, it's doubtful that they would continue to do so under McCain's plan.

I think that many people if they could afford any type of insurance would opt for high deductible plans, which the insurance industry LOVES as they are very profitable.

[iamjoy]

2. Not All Employers Would Stop

Not all employers would stop offering health insurance - at least, not right away.

They don't just do it for the tax benefit, any more than the "fringe" benefits some companies offer are for the balance sheet only. Companies realize that a robust benefits program helps with employee recruitment and retention. For many companies, this is still important.

However, it would be the beginning of the end. Even the best intentioned companies do have to look at their bottom line at some point. Even the best intentioned companies would find their plans overwhelmed by the disproportionate number of sick people on them.

See, the advantage to a group plan is that everyone in the group (company) pays into the plan. When one person gets sick and their medical costs exceed their premiums, the insurance company is still okay, because they have premiums from other people who never got sick. If a group has a lot of sick people, their premiums will increase. So, add in a tax credit and the younger/healthier people are going to be able to get cheaper insurance elsewhere. What that means for the group plan is that the burden, or shared cost of care for the sick to fewer people within the group, increasing the cost dramatically. Even if the company doesn't throw in the towel, people wouldn't be able to afford the insurance.

[PA Democrat]

4. Good points. I think that the end result would be significantly fewer employers offering insurance.

I think the first companies to go the route of ending insurance benefits would be those with large numbers of lesser skilled workers, some of the very people who would be less likely to be able to afford private insurance.

[sellitman]

5. But.....but... Obama's supporters were mean to me.

:sarcasm:

[PA Democrat]

6. That's why I posted this.

There are too many battles being waged in GDP over really petty things. Let's keep our eye on the ball. I think that everyone can agree that we ALL lose under a McCain presidency!

[phrigndumass]

7. The cost to insure a family is about $17,000 a year, in my experience

As an employer, I've seen the expenses for our health insurance program more than double over the past 10 years, faster than the rate of inflation. At first, we insured all employees and their families. Then we disallowed coverage for administrative staff families to keep up with expenses (we allowed employee-only coverage). Now we are considering disallowing family coverage for professional staff as well. It's either that or lay off more employees, which we've had to do anyway.

Our administrative staff began to pay for their family's coverage beyond what we pay for just the employee, and every year, despite granting them a cost-of-living wage increase, they end up paying more into their family's portion of health coverage than they received as a raise.

Taking away the employer credit for health coverage will most definitely result in reduced coverage for our employees, and possibly further layoffs.

[PA Democrat]

8. The best price we could come up for group family coverage

was more than $16,000 a year with a $2500 deductible. Health insurance costs are killing small businesses.

[phrigndumass]

12. True. Our plan's deductible is $1000, and we're in a low-cost area

Our business wouldn't be able to stay afloat in a larger city.

:hi:

[Exilednight]

9. This will only hurt small to mid size companies that are struggling.........

with costs. Many large corporations will continue to provide health care along with mid-size companies that are financially secure. Even if he managed to get rid of the tax deduction, companies could still write it off as an expense. Several large corporations don't even donate to employee health insurance, instead they negotiate with a PPO or HMO for a reduced rate by guaranteeing a percentage of their employees will participate in the plan and divide the payments, to be fully paid by the employee, in 26 biweekly installments.

I also highly doubt that such a measure would get through a Democratic controlled Congress.

The bigger problem is rising health costs. I pay nothing for health benefits, but if health costs continue to rise I will probably have to begin paying a portion of my health care.

[PA Democrat]

11. Most companies large and small are desperately looking for ways to reduce health care costs even

WITH the tax deduction. In a global economy it is getting increasingly difficult to compete due to the fact that employers in other countries are not bearing the costs for health care. This has been a much-discussed issue in the automotive industry.

I agree that McCain's plan would most likely never get through a Democratic congress. But we may also be facing another four years minimum with nothing being done to address the crippling costs of health care and the numbers of uninsured.

My intent with this post was to wake people up enough to realize that there is too much at stake to lose this election due to personal grudges.

My husband and I are self-employed. This is an urgent issue for us because we have seen our costs more than double since Bush took office.

[Exilednight]

13. To be honest with you.........

I don't see either one of our candidates doing anything to solve your problem. I feel for self employed people, I know what it's like going down that road.

With that being said, Hillary's plan mandates that you participate in a HMO or PPO, and Obama's gives you an option to participate in a government plan that you still have to pay for. Neither are universal coverage. This is the same plan that Hillary attempted to push through when Bill was President, the only difference is it now a much smaller document. Neither of their plans will do anything to reduce the cost of health insurance, it just smoke and mirrors.

If you read both plans carefully enough, to qualify for the reduced cost government health insurance, you must meet certain financial prerequisites.

[PA Democrat]

14. I think we need single payer, but I will take any movement in the right direction at this point.

A very important improvement in BOTH Democratic candidates' plans has to do with the prohibition against refusing coverage for preexisting conditions.

[Exilednight]

16. I agree that single payer is where we need to be, but neither plan brings.........

us even close. The preexisting condition loophole should have been closed years ago when Bill was in office.

[dsc]

17. that is totally false

Clinton's plan gives the same ability to buy into to a government program and requires either the buy in or to purchase private insurance.

[PA Democrat]

19. Thanks for clarifying. I thought both candidates offered the option

of buying into a government plan.

[Beacool]

23. You are correct!!! n/t

[Exilednight]

27. read the plan more carefully. To buy into the government program........

you must meet certain prequalifiers.

[dsc]

29. I have read the plan and that just isn't true.

[Vinca]

10. Most employers would keep the insurance, but make you pay for it.

The last quote we got was 3 years ago at $12,000 with a $5,000 deductible. Since then my husband was diagnosed with a chronic condition. Now, even if we could afford insurance, they wouldn't sell it to him. Vote for McCain and get in line behind us.

[Marrah_G]

15. I'm not that crazy! Either Dem is miles better then any Repuke.

[dsc]

18. actually I thought the deduction was ours not the businesses

it doesn't count as income to us. I didn't realize the business got a deduction too.

[PA Democrat]

20. When businesses calculate taxable income, they are now permitted to deduct whatever their share

of employee health insurance costs that they pay.

So for example if a company has 10 employees, and health insurance is $10,000 per year per employee, and the employer pays 80% ($8,000) per year and the employee pays the rest ($2,000), the company can write off their share of the total expense- $80,000 (10 employees x $8,000 per employee per year).

[dsc]

26. I don't see how they wouldn't be able to continue that

as it is salary or benefits. I thought the way health care was different was that we didn't pay taxes either.

[PA Democrat]

28. McCain said that he plans to change the tax code to disallow the write off for

businesses as a way to pay for the tax credits he would give to individuals and families. In essence it raises taxes for businesses that continue to pay for employees' health insurance.

If you work for a company and have to pay for some part of your premium, you are right that you don't pay taxes on your share of the cost under the current tax law. Looks like McCain would end that as well and give individuals and families a tax credit at the end of the year. I tried to get more info on exactly how his plan would do this, but couldn't find anything.

I hope I am making sense.

[Florida22ndDistrict]

21. re: A McCain presidency could cost you your health insurance

I'm a small business owner and purchase my own health insurance. Actually a mandated commercial health care plan threatens my way of living more then McCain. I dislike him for a lot of other reasons, but when it comes to health care he wins. Too bad none of the leading democrats have the balls to support single payer. The fact is if the market isn't going to handle itself, then single payer needs to be approached and a proper immigration policy to support its cost needs to be addressed. The plans set forth by Clinton and Obama are horrible as far as I'm concerned.

[PA Democrat]

24. Obama's plan does not mandate coverage.

[Florida22ndDistrict]

25. re: Obama's plan does not mandate coverage.

From Obamas website:

"Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage. Obama will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage, including allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents' plans."

While not as much of an infringement as the Clinton plan, it's still headed down the same road. I don't believe in forcing the public to buy commercial for profit health insurance.

I am ok with mandating single payer health care that is run without the profit motive. Such a system could be funded through progressive taxation and with proper immigration policy that focused on young educated people that would most like float in the middle class it could be somewhat sustainable.

[cooolandrew]

22. So more or less you will be far worse off under his plan. But hey least they will have payback, nice