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Let's Cut the Bullshit. Penn hasn't Quit and Clinton had to Know he was working with Colombia.

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:12 PM
Original message
Let's Cut the Bullshit. Penn hasn't Quit and Clinton had to Know he was working with Colombia.
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 02:33 PM by berni_mccoy
One of the first things you do when you hire a PR firm is find out who their other clientele are. Clinton has used Penn and his company for many years now... and she's known about Columbia being a client of his. Here are some of his well-known clients (from wiki): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burson-Marsteller

Among governments often cited as one-time B-M clients are Nigeria, Romania, Singapore, Argentina and Saudi Arabia.
Colombia On April 5, 2008 the Colombian government terminated its business with Penn and his Burson-Marstellar firm.

Nigeria
The Ministry of Information of Nigeria employed Burson-Marsteller in the late 60s to assist in counteracting allegations by secessionists that the Nigerian government was committing genocide in the breakaway province of Biafra. Although the civil war brought about enormous suffering on both sides, an international commission reported finding no evidence of systemic genocide or serious human rights violations.

Romania
Burson-Marsteller assisted Romania in gaining Most Favored Nation status for trade with the United States. At the time the U.S. and other western nations regarded Nicholas Ceaucescu as the friendliest of the Soviet bloc leaders. President Nixon visited Ceauscescu in Bucharest in 1969 and the Romanian leader was said to be instrumental in arranging Nixon’s visit to China. B-M also promoted trade and tourism for Romania. One result was a week long visit to Romania by NBC’s Today program.

Singapore
Burson-Marsteller helped Singapore develop a program to attract overseas investment shortly after its formation as a nation in the mid-60s. This activity continued for approximately ten years and set the stage for Singapore’s highly successful high tech manufacturing economy.

Argentina
With full knowledge of and advice from of the U.S. State Department, Burson-Marsteller accepted the military junta government of General Jeorge Videla as a client to attract industrial investment, market Argentine bonds and promote Argentine products, mainly wine. The military takeover ended a protracted civil war and was hailed by world media as a prelude to peace in Argentina. Burson-Marsteller’s client was the Ministry of the Economy. During the Videla government’s reign, thousands of Argentine citizens disappeared and many more were tortured for their political beliefs. Burson-Marsteller has maintained through the years that it was never asked by its client to defend human rights violations. It did not seek an extension of its four-year contract.

Saudi Arabia
Burson-Marsteller’s relationship with Saudi Arabia dates to the late 1970s when it launched a new petrochemical producer SABIC (Saudi Arabia Basic Industries Corporation). This activity continued for two decades and was consistent with business-to-business programs undertaken for other industrial clients. In the mid-90s, the King Faisal Foundation retained Burson-Marsteller to gain recognition for several initiatives, including the King Faisal Prize for scientific achievement. This work continued for four years. Its only other engagement for Saudi Arabia was preparing advertisements for major media following the September 11 attack on the World Trade Center.


That is one nasty list of clients. But it doesn't end there. His firm is known for it's crisis management, and perhaps, when she found out she was up against Obama, she had a crisis. But let's take a closer look at his "crisis" clients (from the same wiki article):

Burson-Marsteller’s strong position in crisis management has resulted in its identification with many major corporate crises of the past half century. It is well known for assisting Johnson & Johnson in the two Tylenol crises in 1982 and 1985. The Tylenol case is frequently cited as the text book model of corporate responsibility for its crisis management.

The firm also is widely known for its work on the Bhopal (India) disaster that killed some 2,000 employees and nearby neighbors and seriously injured thousands more. The plant was a joint venture of Union Carbide Corporation, a long time B-M client, and the Indian government. While originally operated by Union Carbide, it was taken over by local Indian management prior to the accidental discharge of a deadly gas used in the manufacture of insecticides. Burson-Marsteller’s first objective was establishing a mechanism that would be helpful to global media representatives in transmitting news from a remote location in India to newspaper, TV and radio outlets. Two B-M executives were sent to Bhopal for this purpose and remained there more than a month. This facilitated daily press conferences that reported on steps taken following the accident.

Burson-Marsteller also has had a close working relationship with many of the global producers and marketers of petroleum products in training their employees how to respond to crises and working on key communications of specific crisis situations such as oil spills and serious accidents. It has also worked with these companies in the development of environmental upgrade programs. Among those served by Burson-Marsteller are Shell, Exxon Mobil, Conoco, Chevron, BP, Repsol, Gulf and numerous smaller entities that were merged into the larger companies.


There can be no doubt that this guy is sheer evil in the way he makes these corporations and nations that do wrong look "good". Clinton has had to have known this. She knows about the trade agreement with Columbia, as that is coming up for a Congressional vote and she know Penn was working with them. In fact, the embassy wasn't sure if Penn was to meet with them as their agent or Clinton's (from MSNBC live television).

He hasn't resigned from the campaign, and he doesn't intend to. Look for April's FEC filings for proof. His firm will continue to suck down millions of dollars from her campaign and he will continue to push the initiatives of these non-Democratic countries and firms. His only problem is that the Clinton crisis will be listed on his clients as a failure in that respect.

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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Absolutely true.
Reminds me of Rove's "resignation."
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Isn't it strange how virtually everyone Clinton has ever worked with since '92 is a free trader?
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 02:16 PM by Occam Bandage
For such a staunch opponent of free trade, it's odd how she keeps finding herself in the situation of having to distance herself from her advisors'/husband's/own/staffers'/strategists' statements and actions on trade policy.
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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. You mean, Austen Goolsbee worked for her, too?
I thought he only worked for Barack "Free Market" Obama!
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obviously the Penn Colombia deal is more important than Hillary's run this election.
Penn flying to Colombia would be pretty stupid if you were winning this election - now wouldn't it? She knows her chances or would never have taken a chance like that.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think he just screwed up and got caught. He's made tremendous mistakes all throughout
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 02:19 PM by berni_mccoy
her campaign. He is a freaking disaster for her.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Are you series??? The District of Columbia? Space shuttle Columbia?
Oh, the country of COLOMBIA.
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JayFredMuggs Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Spelling lesson
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 02:29 PM by JayFredMuggs
Series: .... Events or items that follow logical order "The World Series"

Serious:..... Profound, True, Candid, Honest "A serious accusation"

I'm getting sick of posters that can't bother to use the correct words.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:28 PM
Original message
Welcome to DU. Moran.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. LOL
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They were pointing out my mistake (Columbia vs. Colombia)
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. You seem to have missed the sarcasm/DU lingo. n/y
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. it's a DU inside joke.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. LOL...
Is this nukular to you? :rofl:
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Stop casting asparagus!!!!!
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. There're a bunch of hugh morans 'roun here. We're totally screwn.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. It's an old joke here on DU. Really old. It's collecting is Social Security
It's using a walker.

We have its obit written already.

It's grown mold.

It's o-o-o-o-old.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. Check the DU Dictionary in the Research section n/t
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Oh darn! Thanks for catching that.
:hi:
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. No problem...
And sorry if I was a little rude :) :hi:
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. No apology necessary... totally my bad.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Will the MSM give her a free pass on this? n/t
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. I swear to god...
This sounds more like the Bush administration stunt than any democrat - shame on HRC!
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Penn is definitely a RW tool... very similar to Rove, only much, much dumber.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's called "Hoodwinking" voters....in particular, Low information voters.....
Hillary's base!
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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. And what do you call the inner-city base that's going for Obama?
Oh,I forgot. We can only cast class aspersions on members of the "Archie Bunker" class, right?
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Latte-sipping liberals.
There, I said it.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. Which ones? The ones in the North Dakota inner city or the ones in Vermont's
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 04:50 PM by FrenchieCat
or in Utah's? Maybe you meant Wyoming or Maine or Colorado or Idaho. Anyways, please be more specific.....we wouldn't want to identify the wrong members of the vast coalition supporting Barack Obama, now...would we?
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
51. Could we please stop with the elitism?
This kind of elitist sentiment is why we lost the last 2 presidential elections.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. LIV's Low Information Voters wont believe this kinda stuff...
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. AHA! MSNBC now calling the BULLSHIT in this story... on live now!
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oh, well, if Wikipedia says so....
:eyes:

Got any proof? No? Another hit and run Rove style faux scandal?
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. You are so lame. Wiki sites the sources of the client list. Good bye.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. It doesn't list all their clients though...
No PR firm worth their salt can list all of their clients.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Follow the links to Corporate Watch and Source Watch. It's all documented.
Stop trying to Deny it. Penn has admitted his own error in this. As has the Colombian government. It took Clinton longer than both of them to do the right thing.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. At the risk of repeating myself...
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 04:01 PM by Juniperx
No PR firm worth their salt can or will list ALL of their clients.

We have many confidential clients that will never appear in a deal tombstone, proposal, or website. Never. It's part of their LOA... and NDA.

It doesn't mean Clinton knew of this work. This is all supposition until we get the full story.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You've. Got. Nothing.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. I don't understand. Hillary had Penn vetted by her crack staff.
You know, the same ones who vetted the story about the woman in labor turned away from the hospital...
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. Do you have dates, etc. and anything other than Wiki?
From my POV, most PR contracts do indeed mention conflicts of interest, but you can't list absolutely everyone in your LOA. You can, however, state that under circumstances where there is a conflict, there are specific ramifications... one of which is, you are let go.

This is my take on what happened... my first knee jerk was, uh huh... her campaign tanking so badly she'd fire the top guy? Then I heard the reason... conflict of interest... seems logical to me. There's no way Clinton would know all the various clients of this or any other PR firm. Sure, some are listed on deal tombstones, but many others are highly confidential and you would never know.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. You are so in denial. Clinton knew his clients beforehand... should have demanded he take a leave
of absence while working for her campaign. It's that simple. And Penn has a track-record of Corporate shill/anti-democratic regime supporter.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. And you know this how?
How can you prove what she knew and when she knew it?
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. If HRC didn't know it, she should have... back to the Iraq War vote situation...
...I see this as a sneak-peek at how she will hire the people who advise her if she becomes president.

Like the Iraq vote, this is something she should have known, and had the resources to find out. If she didn't, then she is unfit for the presidency. If she did and hired him on as a chief strategist, anyway, then she is unfit for the presidency because it would mean that she approves of what he was doing (and her pro-NAFTA stance before she was a born-again union supporter when she started running for office reinforces this) and will likely continue to outsource jobs overseas.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. CNN Now Smells the B.S. They are crushing Clinton with not actually firing him and double-talking
about trade. Says she should never have had him unless he quit his post with his firm.
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Great! I am surprised CNN is doing this; they have been coddling her throughout the campaign. n/t
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. kcik
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
38. It's also a little disturbing Penn's firm is working for McCain.
In fact, when I heard the first story, that she'd fired Penn, I assumed he'd sign onto the McCain campaign. A buck is a buck is a buck to these people.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Hey, you might have something there.
Maybe she decided not to fire him in fear of losing him to McCrazy.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. HOLY WTF!?! I just found this
From: http://www.jedreport.com/2008/02/mark-penns-lobb.html

Update, April 6, 2008: The Clinton campaign today announced that Mark Penn would take a less visible role within the campaign. Also, last week Charlie Black resigned from Penn's firm to go work for McCain full-time.

Let's say that the Democratic nomination battle had been winnowed down to two candidates, and that one of those two candidates (let's call him Barack Obama) was a huge favorite to win. Meanwhile, the GOP nominee has been all but decided. (We'll call him John McCain.)

Now let's imagine that Obama's opponent (we'll call her Hillary Clinton) was desperately slinging every piece of mud she could at him without regard to whether or not her attacks would help John McCain.

Finally, imagine that you found out that Clinton's chief strategist was not only her campaign's leading advocate for these attacks -- but was also the CEO of a public affairs firm whose DC-based lobbying subsidiary was headed up by John McCain's top adviser.

Would you say this posed at least the appearance of a conflict of interest for the strategist in question?

What would you think if you found out that it's all true?

Well, it is true.

Hillary Clinton's chief strategist is Mark Penn, and Charlie Black, John McCain's top adviser, is chairman of BKSH, the DC-based lobbying subsidiary of Burson-Marsteller -- of which Mark Penn is CEO.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Political inbreeding at its worst. nt
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Which is why no-one, and I mean no one needs
Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton OR Bush-Clinton-Bush-McBush!

Let's just say HELL NAW!
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Exactly.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. Indeed.
Dead on.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
50. Fock. ANY QUESTIONS??????
:nuke:
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