Hillary's new top pollster: “I don’t want there to be a thermonuclear climax” - wants united party

[jefferson_dem]

No thermonuclear climaxes

The quote of the day, from Clinton's new top pollster, Geoff Garin:

“I don’t want there to be a thermonuclear climax,” he said. “Senator Clinton is committed to having a united Democratic Party at the end of this process. Senator Obama is committed to having a united Democratic Party at the end of this process. And we will have a united Democratic Party at the end of this process.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/08/us/politics/08clinton.html?_r=2&ref=politics&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[easy_b94]

1. thermonuclear climax - SAY WHAT!!!!!!!!!!

[0007]

16. This is a Thermonuclear Climax

[YOY]

2. Here's the thing: It's the Democratic party not the Obama or Clinton party

THere will be no meltdown and the Clintons can take a hike for their claims of necessary inclusion. Their scorched earth tactics have caused far more harm then help...but not enough harm to sink us at any rate.

[mmonk]

3. It's good to know and good for everyone to keep in mind.

[Bonobo]

4. I can't say what I want to say.

[Cha]

63. I can..I don't believe it until proven.

hilary is a busted bonafide liar and therefore she needs to prove everything she says..it's only right. She should have thought twice before she went around lying her head off.

"Why Hillary’s Lies are Important"

- March 24, 2008, 9:53PM
Hillary Clinton has been caught in a series of lies and misrepresentations during the primary campaign. To some of her supporters, these lies may seem trivial and insignificant and even politics-as-usual. However, please consider the serious impact of these lies by placing them in the context of the past seven years of the Bush Administration and the legacy of expanded executive power that he leaves behind. In particular, consider the dangerous message that the Clinton campaign sends by employing similar tactics to achieve her political goals.

1. The Florida and Michigan Primaries / The Delegate Count
Hillary agreed to honor the DNC’s decision to strip Florida and Michigan of its delegates after their primaries were moved up into January in express violation of the DNC rules. She did not change her position on the validity of these primaries until she found herself unexpectedly behind in the delegate count and desperately needed to claim the delegates that she had won in these unsanctioned contests. As her chances of winning the nomination became increasingly slim in recent weeks, we have been presented with threatening and desperate lines of reasoning for why these primary results should count as is. At the same time, Clinton and her surrogates continue to propose different metrics for determining who should win the nomination even though there is and has been a clearly defined process in place for several decades.

Please think about the implications of changing election rules after the fact. We have suffered through at least one stolen presidential election and the manipulation of untold numbers of Congressional and state elections through various vote tampering and voter intimidation schemes used by the Republicans and their allies. The American people (and especially Democratic voters) have lost faith in the integrity of the election process. The Clinton strategy to continually change the rules for determining the Democratic Party nominee sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to increasingly un-Democratic elections in the future if it is allowed to succeed. If anything, we need more transparency and methods of accountability in our elections in order to repair the damage done in recent years and to restore our confidence in the Government.

2. The Bosnia Fabrication / Exaggerated Experience Claims
Hillary fabricated a story about a dangerous, life-risking visit to Bosnia in order to gain stature as an experienced negotiator in international conflicts and war. While this type of embellishment can seem almost comical, it represents a willingness to distort reality in order to influence the public perception. This is the same type of distortion that the Bush administration used to justify the war in Iraq, although the magnitude of the lie is certainly on a different scale. The Bush administration falsified reports, cherry-picked intelligence, used unreliable sources, and employed fear-mongering tactics to convince the American public that our safety was at risk and as such, you were either with us or with the terrorists. The lies used by President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are impeachable offenses and should be condemned by all Americans. Sadly, the Clinton campaign seems to have shown a shocking willingness to employ the same tactics to create a more favorable reality and to rely on divide-and-conquer rhetoric to weaken opposition. Her attempts to frighten the American people by conjuring up 3 AM phone calls are bad enough, but her vote of confidence in John McCain over Barack Obama should be seen as treason against the Democratic Party.

3. NAFTA
Hillary lied about her position on NAFTA and used her lies in a calculated way to influence the Ohio primary. Recently released White House documents confirm that Hillary had been an active proponent of NAFTA prior to its passage, and she has continued to support it publicly in her speeches and memoir. However, while campaigning in Ohio, she claimed to have been privately against NAFTA during the Clinton presidency and believes that it should be rewritten to protect American jobs and workers. This type of maneuvering is reminiscent of the behind-closed-doors policy-making that the Bush administration has used during the past seven years. Specifically, Bush and Cheney have made policy decisions without providing transparency to Congress or the public, and President Bush has repeatedly ignored the rule of law by issuing signing statements and disregarding the parts of the laws that he doesn’t agree with. If we cannot trust Hillary to be truthful about her positions on critical legislative issues now, how can we trust that she will be truthful as president?

These are just three examples that illustrate the concerns we should have with a candidate who demonstrates a sense of entitlement to the nomination and is willing to lie, misrepresent, threaten, and divide in order to obtain the nomination. President Bush and the neoconservative movement have greatly harmed this country by the creation of an imperial-like presidency. This election is not just about whether a Democrat or Republican wins but if the checks and balances are restored to the three branches of government. The framers of the Constitution were in such fear of an imperial president that mechanisms for impeachment are prominently and explicitly included in the Constitution. If Hillary Clinton is willing to use lies and deceit to win the Democratic nomination, what assurances do we have that she will not continue to use them once she is president?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/why-h ...

<snip>

"Her response to being caught lying to a military audience, when she invented a story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia, was to say it wasn't surprising she got some things wrong, seeing how she spoke millions of words every day. What a magnificent idea, that if you say lots of words some of them are bound to be fantastic lies. So if you listen carefully to horse-racing commentators they say things like "And it's Teddy's Boy still leading three furlongs out as they come up to the fourth last fence with Nip and Tuck two lengths behind by the way I fought a tiger once, punched it clean out and they're all safely over."

<lots more>
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/opinion/article3 ...

[struck_dumb]

5. Too late

Barry has been far too unfair and far too undeserving for me to vote for him. Plus I would be scared if he was the one in charge. There would be a hell of a lot of backtracking and explaining of Himself, just like during the campaign. And we're all supposed to say, 'What a nice polite young man. Give him another chance.' No. I could not vote for him.

[JayFredMuggs]

8. "Barry has been far too unfair"?

Please tell us all, from your perspective, just what Senator Obama has done in participating in the Presidential primary that has been "far too unfair" ! What is "unfair" about winning votes?

I know you have some facts to back up your conclusion. I would like to know what they are.

Somehow, I think you won't answer this request.

[struck_dumb]

20. check this forum, re: the MI and FL votes, NAFTA and Canada, that kind of stuff

lots of good posts on here will tell you, a quick Google for his past will reveal his idyllic childhood in Hawaii and Indonesia, during which he was pleased and happy to be known as Barry.

I don't like the idea that the whole formation of our personality in our childhood and teens should be reconstructed when we are in our twenties or thirties. It's a scary concept, it's unstable, and it speaks to a lack of maturity, ie he took longer to mature than most people...all things we cope with, but not ideal training for the Presidency. 'Oh, I decide that all that didn't happen and now I will be this person.' He's bi-racial but he doesn't really care to think about what it means to be white much. I see him explaining what it means to be black. And has he really done much thinking about his Mom. So I'll call him Barry, to remind us that ALL his experiences are formative of the man, not just the ones he finds most interesting or easy to deal with.

[jefferson_dem]

23. "...he doesn't really care to think about what it means to be white much..."

Disgusting post.

[struck_dumb]

28. Send me a link...

I am interested in the bi-racial candidate's experience and opinions of both parts of his ancestry. If I am unaware of his speeches on the topic, please set me straight.

[jefferson_dem]

31. Gee...we're all sorry Barack doesn't claim his "whiteness" to a satisfactory degree.

Your faux outrage on this issue is so transparent. Just come out and say what you really mean.

[Lucky 13]

43. I haven't heard Hillary give a speech claiming her "whiteness"

The only speeches I've ever heard where people claim their "whiteness" come from Aryan brotherhood fucktards. Is that what you're looking for?

Are you serious with this shit? You want a presidential candidate to talk about their white pride? Give me a fucking break.

[struck_dumb]

51. Yeah, I'm serious

Crucify me if you must. I am curious about his perspective on the white experience. Not only black people have experiences of course. Aryan brotherhood fucktards are real fucktards, fucking right.

[struck_dumb]

48. ??

I really mean that Barack Obama is a bi-racial man. Not a black man or a white man. Unless the white family that raised him count for very little to nothing.

[Mme. Defarge]

44. Is that everything?

Don't hold back now -- give it to us with both barrels.

[struck_dumb]

49. Sorry, I'm not as much of an expert on this stuff.

I'll get some experts and stuff to help me when I am elected.

[madrchsod]

11. who is barry?

i can`t recall anyone by that name running for president..

[jefferson_dem]

13. That's the name knuckle-dragging freepers use for Obama.

Hmmm...

I hope our new DUer will enjoy his stay...however short.

[struck_dumb]

22. Haven't been there...liked the rules of this forum...now see they are, shall we say, loose...

[EnviroBat]

30. Your handle speaks volumes...

I think Free Republic needs you...

[struck_dumb]

46. erm, I'll go take a look sometime. It this the anti-Hill forum and I've got mixed up?

[Auntie Bush]

67. Not me! I call him Obie.

[Bongo Prophet]

68. Obie wan Obama? It IS kinda catchy, gotta admit.

:hi:

[Auntie Bush]

69. Actually, I think Obie is kind of cute.

However, it's just a copy cat name...due to the hilly name which was meant to be derogatory.
Here's to hilly and Obie! :toast: :hi: to you too.

[Bongo Prophet]

71. The first time I saw "Hilly" used, it was by Jlake. I took it as endearing.

I had no idea it would be taken poorly, so I am glad I never used it myself.
But yeah, why outrage over the small stuff?

Both of them took on Petraeus pretty well today - we have much to be proud of.
Back atchya! :toast:

[jefferson_dem]

12. "Barry".

The ONLY places i've seen that name used is on right-wing internet cesspools...until now.

"No. I could not vote for him." No shit. Now...move along.

[sniffa]

62. Not true actually

Fredda Weinberg refuses to call him by his name, and only refers to him as Barry. I'm sure there are others too.

[YOY]

15. Get bent

If you could not vote for him then you are not one of us so go back to FRee Republic...

[GoesTo11]

17. To paraphrase you, Go McCain!

Or do you mean you can't vote for "Barry" in the primary. Fair enough then.

[struck_dumb]

29. thanks for trying to be even handed, but

no, I won't vote for a man who's only been in the Senate for three years. The world is too complex, and the government isn't run by one person alone (thank goodness) He will need actual political relationships with other politicians to get anything done. He'll have no control over half of the party.

[GoesTo11]

38. So are you saying you wouild prefer McCain to Obama?

You won't vote for Obama. Does this mean you will vote for McCain, or will you just sit out / vote for Nader or something?

I'm serious. For the sake of argument, let's say some other Dem with little government experience but still a viable candidate - maybe RFK Jr. or something, somehow became the nominee. This person would surround themselves with a team of more senior Democratic advisors. Compare with McCain who certainly has more experience, but will surround himself with pretty much the same crew that's been advising now.

Would you then really prefer a McCain administration over the Democrat's? Or would you prefer the Democrat but still not be able to bring yourself to hold your nose and actually cast a vote?

Or would you prefer 4 more years of a Republican so that a Democrat you like better can run in 2012?

I'm not trying to start an argument with this. I really want to understand the motivation here. I think Obama supporters would face similar questions if Clinton is nominee, and I hope they answer them responsibly.

[struck_dumb]

47. making me think it through, eh...

To be honest, I really would not feel comfortable with Barry in charge of the head office yet. Since someone needs to be, and since McCain's own party hate him for being too liberal, and that whole campaign finance reform thing is good, plus all those years in a POW camp...I might actually vote for him. I'd have to see a Democratic congress, and we'd have to guarantee the votes to tie up Iraq without leaving too many pockets of America/Western wrold hating criminals about. Probably I'd simply opt out. Absentee ballots are a hassle as I recall.

[GoesTo11]

66. I can respect that

Still don't agree, but it's honest reasoning. Thanks.

[City Lights]

18. Barry?

Barry who? Manilow? White? Gibb? Bonds? I didn't realize there was a Barry running.

struck_dumb, please fill me in on this Barry of which you speak. Thanks in advance.

[GoesTo11]

26. Nice Barry's

Can't be talking about Gibb, Manilow, or White - all (were) nice polite young men. Most likely Bonds.

[City Lights]

33. Right you are. Bonds it is. eom

[Starbucks Anarchist]

19. I think your profile says it best:

I moved to the UK the year W took office. I am still appalled at the turn of politics since then. Barry the Builder with his stolen slogans of a simpleton. He's winning because America is guilty-guilty-guilty of its racist past and in denial of its racist present. Barry is a no more impressive and just as annoying as a high-school PE ballhog. 'Pass the ball, Barry. Yes, to a girl, Barry.'

:puke:

[struck_dumb]

21. Thanks, Starbuck

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. It wasn't a compliment, you idiot.

[struck_dumb]

27. Oh, sorry Starbuck, I didn't get that before, Take the thanks now, then.

[City Lights]

37. That is puke inducing.

:puke:

Thanks for pointing it out.

[redqueen]

39. Yeah, I noticed that earlier.

Transparent, that one is.

[struck_dumb]

53. up the arse...

...nal. Too bad about tonight. You'll never walk alone, eh?

4-2, unlucky.

(edit for score)

[redqueen]

56. Liverpool are diving cheating bastards.

They can take their tainted victory and shove it.

:hi:

[struck_dumb]

58. listen...football's not a competition...

it's just that we won

[redqueen]

59. I know how awful it must be... considering their past glory...

to be reduced to having to resort to diving in order to win... but I suppose if that's as much integrity as a team has... well... what else can one say?

[struck_dumb]

60. Stevie G was pretty s**t though, even he said

Anyways, Arsenal are my second team, sorry for the loss it was a fun game to watch.

[struck_dumb]

64. Good night, all

[jefferson_dem]

70. Good night, indeed. Disruptor.

Happy trails.

It's kind of a shame too...as we share a love for the Reds. I'm a Scouser at heart. But i'm no fan of trouble-making trolls.

[redqueen]

65. It doesn't sound like it!

:(

Rovers are my second team. So... yeah. :P

:hi:

[pocoloco]

25. who is barry??

[MagickMuffin]

55. From reading your posts I really don't think you would be voting for the Democrat nominee eitherway

“You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.”
- Abraham Lincoln.

[SoFlaJet]

6. That's good news JD

and I think the best solution would be for the 2 camps to put their primary differences aside and have a unity ticket. Obama/Clinton '08

[ima_sinnic]

9. UGH!

whether as a presidential or VP candidate, she is still representing the corporate greed-head cronyist wing of the party. I hope this idea DIES, as it should. She will atract NOBODY to vote for Obama--repukes will still hate her, and many Dems will still not like her either. Obama needs to distance himself from her and her unbalanced ways. She is getting to be on the lunatic fringe. There are SO MANY good candidates, and she is proving herself to be just mediocre and not that big an asset. She has also been very insulting to Obama. If I were him, I'd tell her very plainly that she doesn't have a prayer of running with him--but he's probably too polite to say it right to her botoxed face.

[crankychatter]

7. It's just a denial... they're creating the biggest split in party history

and saying "there will be unity in the end."

Wish in one hand, shit in the other...see which one fills up first.

[crankychatter]

10. When I see them working for unity, I'll tune back in

until then...

[StevieM]

42. The split is amongst the voters and who they want to vote for. That's not something that they

have to apologize for.

Obama is the one who has trashed Hillary, calling her a serial liar and saying she'll do anything to win. Many of her supporters don't appreciate his campaign of personal destruction.

If Obama gets the nom, then I'm sure when Hillary endorses him his supporters will arrogantly claim that she is doing it because she has to in order to "redeem herself."

The arrogance is astounding.

Steve

[Zachstar]

54. And what does that have to do with anything?

When she supports Obama only the fools will make an issue about it. The rest of us will be WAY too busy trying to get the campaigns for CONGRESS going strong!

[Diana Prince]

14. Don't trust the man.

WE need to find out a little more about him.



http://www.progressivedailybeacon.com/?p=655

Meet the Clinton Campaign's New Boss. Worse than the Old Boss

By admin | April 7, 2008

The Clinton campaign sort-a-kinda fired its chief political strategist, Mark Penn, for double dealing on trade policy. He'll still be advising and polling for the campaign, which is pretty much what he was doing before he was forced to walk the plank … in a truly slick Clintonian non-plank-walking way. Penn's replacement, Geoff Garin, it seems isn't much better. Matter of fact, when it comes to supporting bad trade policy, Garin maybe worse than Penn. At least he certainly has less respect for the American worker and the American people.

Consider his commentary with regard to the North American Free Trade Agreement, a hot-button issue on the 2008 campaign trail.Back in 1993, when the Clinton administration was gearing up to promote the pact, Garin told The New York Times that Bill Clinton could close the deal by playing on the ignorance of Americans regarding trade policy in general and NAFTA in particular. …

As the congressional votes on NAFTA drew closer, Garin shifted to a new argument.

Opponents of the deal driven by fear and emotion, he told the Times. "They feel their livelihoods are at stake."

Backers of the agreement were more thoughtful. "The supporters tend to deal with NAFTA on a more intellectual level," the pollster explained.

As it turned out, Garin was onto something — as least as far as the Clintons were concerned — when he talked about playing on ignorance as the best strategy for promoting NAFTA. Bill and Hillary Clinton certainly did that back in 1993, when they aggressively lobbied for NAFTA by peddling a package of lies that seemed absurd at the time and only seem more absurd today.

But Garin was wrong about who was dealing with trade policy on an intellectual level.

It turns out that the critics of NAFTA in the labor, farm, environmental and human rights movements — who said the deal would harm U.S. industries, depress wages in the U.S. and Mexico, undermine Mexico's farm economy thus spurring immigration and encourage an economic race to the bottom that would eventually see both the U.S. and Mexico losing jobs to China and other Asian countries – were the ones dealing with the issue on an intellectual level.

They were so intellectual, in fact, that they got just about everything right. … The Nation

[uponit7771]

32. More people need thermonuclear climaxs in the lives...:-)

[stratomagi]

34. He should have also added

we don't want the next smoking gun to be Barack Obama!

[PylesMalfunction]

35. If she had put this guy in charge...

to begin with, there's a good chance she'd already be our nominee. The poor management of her campaign is one of the reasons I don't support her (however I'll vote for her if she gets the nomination). Penn has been bad news for a long time and a lot of people in her campaign hate his guts. He's made one mistake after another - why did she keep him around?!!

[kwenu]

36. Well, we all now know who will be fired next from the Hillary campaign.

[rodeodance]

40. good for him. Looks like many BO fans are disappointed!

[Lucky 13]

41. HEY! All Obama can offer me is stupid HOPE! Hillary offers the potential for thermonuclear climax!

Damn. I need to rethink this whole thing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Promises. Promises.

[Zachstar]

50. The only way we can be halfway unified at this rate is for Clinton to support Obama.

Think about it.

Mi and Fl being included as is = Chaos

Supers giving Clinton the nod over the pledged delegates = chaos

Clinton facing McCain who has 8 years of research lined up to use against her = Chaos

I still am holding out hope that Clinton will wake up and say "Enough of this, It is time to move on"

-------

And let us not forget that the bigger issue here is CONGRESS!!

[Danger Mouse]

52. I certainly hope she lives up to that.

Same for Obama.

[struck_dumb]

57. if she has to, she has to, she'll do it.

Sorry, I don't have to hold myself to the same strict standards as a serious candidate for President, so I will probably opt out of supporting him

[Arkana]

61. Is this guy the yin to Penn's yang?

Wow. I gotta respect him for at least saying that.