"Racism" gone astray? Delegate forced to step down for referring to kids climbing in tree "monkeys"

[housewolf]

Is this a case of over-sensitivity or carrying things too far?


Suburban Obama delegate quits over 'divisive' remark
CARPENTERSVILLE, IL April 8, 2008
BY ABDON M. PALLASCH Political Reporter/[e-mail]

Moving to nip in the bud some potential bad press, White House hopeful Barack Obama's campaign persuaded a delegate to step down after she was ticketed for calling her neighbor's African-American children "monkeys."

Linda Ramirez-Sliwinski, a Carpentersville village trustee, was elected as an Obama delegate to the Democratic National Convention. She sports an Obama sign in her front yard.

Linda Ramirez-Sliwinski (left) admitted she used the word "monkeys," but said she did not intend racism. Barack Obama's campaign has persuaded the delegate to step down.

On Saturday, two neighbor children were playing in the tree next-door to her house. Ramirez-Sliwinski "came outside and told the children to quit playing in the tree like monkeys. The tree was not on Ramirez-Sliwinski's property," Carpentersville Police Commander Michael Kilbourne said.

Ramirez-Sliwinski admitted she used the word "monkeys," but said she did not intend racism. She said she was only trying to protect them from falling out of the tree. "Linda Ramirez-Sliwinski said she saw the kids playing in the tree and didn't want them falling out of the tree and getting hurt. She said she calls her own grandchildren 'monkeys,' "

Kilbourne said. The mother of one of the children did not see it that way, noting she and Ramirez-Sliwinski have clashed before. "She felt it was racist because of the fact the children were African-American," Kilbourne said.

Told of the incident Monday by the Sun-Times, Obama's campaign called Ramirez-Sliwinski and persuaded her to step aside as a delegate because the campaign felt her remarks were "divisive and unacceptable."

"Given the incident, she is stepping down as a delegate and will be replaced," said campaign spokesman Ben Labolt.

Ramirez-Sliwinski did not return messages seeking comment Monday. She told the Daily Herald she meant no racism with her comment but that "after this incident, I will not run again" for trustee.

The only Hispanic on the board, Ramirez-Sliwinski has been a strong voice for Carpentersville's 40 percent Hispanic population. She and Village President Bill Sarto opposed an English-only proposition and an ordinance to crack down on illegal immigrants.

Opposition leader Judy Sigwalt said, "We are elected officials. We are in a position where people look to us for leadership and professionalism. We have to be diplomatic at all times."

"Frankly, I don't see a law that was broken here," Sarto said. "I think this entire thing has been blown out of proportion. She's a good neighor. She went over to caution the children to be careful not to fall out of a tree.

She has never indicated to me any prejudice whatsoever. We have a trustee who has been convicted on four counts of domestic battery and refuses to resign from the board. He beat his wife with a baseball bat. This seems far less egregious to me."

Ramirez-Sliwinski's $75 ticket was for "disorderly conduct," which Kilbourne defined as, "when a person does something that alarms or disturbs another."

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/883120,CST-NWS-trustee08.article

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Um yes, calling African American kids "monkeys" is indeed offensive

I guess this lady realizes that now.

[UALRBSofL]

2. A latino delegate called AA children monkeys

And they are talking about the racial divide between latinios and AA's and how it was an Obama delegate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. I honestly don't care who said it

It's offensive.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. "You're an asshole" VS "You're acting like an asshole"

Don't they both communicate the same message?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Do you find "completely out of touch with reality" offensive?

How about "dumber than a bag full of doorknobs?"

[Bolo Boffin]

No, they do not. That's why there are two additional words in the second statement.

Words mean things.

The second statement implies that the person is not an asshole, possesses the possibility of acting better, and should consider exercising that possibility more frequently.

[Auntie Bush]

27. Gee, I'm white and I used to love to climb the huge cherry tree next door. My father used to

call me his Little Monkey. Was he racist? Where will this stupidity end?

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. You are white

When has it ever been offensive to call a white kid a little monkey?

[Bolo Boffin]

6. Except she didn't do that.

She told them to "quit acting like monkeys."

Yes, there is a difference. The factually inaccurate version you keep repeating is a label. The correct version implies that they were NOT monkeys and that they were expected to act better because they weren't.

Please stop spreading this factual inaccuracy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. It is still offensive

That would be the point.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. It's a plot to offend small black children climbing trees, eh?

Hell of a strategy.

[XemaSab]

15. Looks like Obama's lost the 8-year-old African American vote

:P

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Clinton's already got the 6 year old girls afraid of monsters under the bed.

Clinton's going to have this demographic locked up.

[XemaSab]

23. I'm sure if Obama's the nominee all the so-called "Security First-Graders"

will just stay home in November. :P

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. It was one woman who made an insensitive remark

Hardly a plot.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Yes, they're keeping the strategy deeply under wraps.

That's the point!

:tinfoilhat:

[Bolo Boffin]

47. If it's so bad, why do you keep telling it as worse than it actually is?

Personally, this monkey (or great ape) doesn't understand what all the fuss is about.

[mkultra]

61. since the phrase acts to reinforce negative stereotypes

It thus fits the definition of racism.

[Bolo Boffin]

65. potentially - which is why Obama was right in asking her to step down

And why I would never myself say that to someone else's kids.

[housewolf]

42. So are AA children not allowed to play on "monkey bars"

or have they been re-named for pc-ness?

[theboss]

3. I remember when this happened to Howard Cossell

I thought it was silly 20 years ago.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. My dad knew Howard Cosell

He WAS a bigot. He loved to tell racial jokes.

[lefty from jersey]

44. Silly?

People's careers are ruined all in the name of political correctness. Obama will be hard to criticize without fear of being labeled racist. Very dangerous territory we are entering.

[maddezmom]

4. this seems a bit extreme to me

I call both my kids monkeys when they climb all over me or furniture, etc. What's next are we going to rename the Monkey bars on school play equipment? :shrug:

[MaineDem]

24. I'm with you on this one

I know I've referred to the kids as monkeys, especially in trees. I can't imagine (not knowing her previous history) that this was a thought-out racist remark. But that's just me.

[DearAbby]

5. My Dad used to call us "Yard Apes"

We were as lily white as they come...Sometimes it can go too far.

[JackCo]

8. I agree

I wonder if there are many parents who haven't at one point or another referred to kids as monkeys.

[azmouse]

7. She didn't call them 'monkeys', she said they were playing like monkeys.

Big difference.

[Poll_Blind]

9. This is truly such bullshit. n/t

PB

[XemaSab]

13. SO stupid...

Kids act like monkeys and are called as such all the time.

I bet kids in every part of the world and of every ethnicity are called monkeys when they swing around in trees, pick lice off each other, sling shit, and generally ACT like monkeys. :P

[woolldog]

17. except that that word is used as a racialized insult.

It's not as if this sensitivity comes out of nowhere, you know.

[XemaSab]

20. I understand the history of the insult

but I think this is overblown.

(I'm white, BTW, and I got called a monkey fairly often growing up. Ditto for my white cousins. I dunno about my half-Chinese second cousin though :P )

[woolldog]

25. I don't think that the parents overblew this at all

And I think you'd have a different reaction if you or your kids had ever experienced that as a racialized insult, meant to demean you on the basis of your race, which you and your cousins obviously haven't.

I don't agree with forcing the delegate to step down, as this just makes it a bigger story than it needs to be.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. You're obviously a very sincere person. I really believe you.

:spray:

[XemaSab]

30. I understand your side of it and sympathize with what you're saying

You're right, I've never been subjected to this as a racialized insult. But I think the woman probably said it without malice.

I'm mostly irritated that the delegate had to step down over this. THAT'S the extra-stupid part.

[woolldog]

35. I don't think the delegate should have had to step down.

but I can understand the parents' reaction. My first instinct would be to punch whoever said that to my kids in the jaw.

[XemaSab]

37. Word.

:thumbsup:

[1620rock]

29. God forbid that anyone calls kids rug-rats. Much BS over nothing.

[NashVegas]

34. It's Also Used As General Comparison - Or Are the Monster.com "Office Monkeys" Commercials Racist?

We don't know the woman enough to know whether or not her intent was racist. Insensitive, perhaps.

[woolldog]

43. Yes and as a white guy (I'm assuming),

you have the PRIVILEGE of not wondering, when the word is used towards you, whether there is some racial animus behind it.

You have the PRIVILEGE of not being put in a position where you either accept the use of a racially tinged insult when it is thrown in your direction or speak up at the risk of people second-guessing and criticizing you for "overreacting" and telling you it's "no big deal" or to "get over it."

[NashVegas]

48. Please Don't Make Assumptions

There's always a profile to check.

When you're a white guy, you have the privilege of assuming, but that doesn't make you racist as much as clueless. It's only after it's been pointed out that someone would take a certain insult as racist, and you continue to use it, that it becomes racist.

[woolldog]

52. My analysis still stands regardless of whether you're male or female

You've never had to wonder whether statements like that have a racial animus behind them and so how to react to them.

I was very clear that I was speaking from the perspective of the PARENTS and responding to the notion that they're making a big deal out of nothing and that they overreacted, and the "hey I'm white and me and my cousins were called that all the time, so what's the big deal?" line of thinking.

That mentality is a product of white privilege. And it is ridiculous to blame the parents for not having that mentality.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. BINGO!

You're a pretty smart white guy :)

[goletian]

26. i wouldnt call her a racist BUT

if she hadnt been told to step down, all the right wing crazies and hillary apologists would be up in arms against obama, touting another supposed racist person connected to obama. damned if you do, damned if you dont.

[pretzel4gore]

31. with the 800 pound guerrilla dancing in the room

and everyone pretending it just a fancy, which hard headed neocons never have- but the fact is the bush regime is utterly illegitimate, and violently criminal to boot. Maybe this explains why such nonsense as calling kids 'monkeys' could be taken as offensive, when a genuine offense goes on and on and on w/out the 'authorities' noticing. It's practiced ignorance. Hopefully, someday such everyday 'offenses' can be left private, and redressed by private apology: until the fascists are running/hiding, their inclinations to use racial insults etc will just have to hogtie the entire society (and as an Obama delegate, Ms Ramirez-Silwinski seems to accept the personal hassle, in the interest of the larger good. Well done) and it burns the nazipoohs' up to constantly feel forced to act 'politically correct'....well fukkem. lettem burn in hell for all we care!

[NashVegas]

32. Let's Say for a Moment, She Did Make a Racist Comment

How does that, in itself, end in a $75 disorderly ticket?

Does the area have an anti-racist remark ordinance?

Anyone?

[Barack_America]

33. Aren't we all genetic cousins of monkeys?

And do monkeys not hang out in trees?

Forgive me if I fail to see the outrage here.

Was I singing about racism every time I sang, "Five Little Monkeys Jumping on the Bed"?

I don't get it. :shrug:

[quantass]

38. Actually Humans AREN'T Monkeys we are all one of the 5 major Great Apes

which include humans, bonobos, chimps (bonobos tend to be treated separately from chimps), gorillas, and orangatans

[lefty from jersey]

41. dangerous candidate

This is the reason Obama is so dangerous for America. Think if you will the words, phrases and ugly comments thrown at W. Bill Clinton was vilified as well when he was President. The hatred is palpable and nothing seems beyond the pale. Now imagine Obama dredging up that level of hatred, and he will, and then what happens. W has been called the "Chimp" and lampooned as a monkey all to the delight of his detractors. How do we treat Obama? Does he get treated differently? Will uncivil discourse be treated as racism?

I have a strong suspicion that within the first year of an Obama administration we will be in a very bad place so far as race is concerned

[quantass]

46. LOL, Give the American People some credit -- you make it sound like EVERYONE is hopeless and going

to hell. Personally, i feel Bush looks like a chimp...he really does....and Bush isn't smart....Obama on the other hand doesn't look like a chimp and he's incredibly intelligent and charismatic....the press will prolly, however, play up on his "ears".

Obama is clearly going to win the nomination and likely the presidency that to me says that race relations has come a long way that at least a majority of whites dont see race as a driving component in their lives....YOU, however, do have a problem with race and should probably get out of the house and intermingle a bit with other races because you'd be surprised to realize that all races are the same. Life is a lot more fulfilling!

[shaniqua6392]

67. He will be hard to criticize.

Things could easily get misconstrued.

[Zhade]

36. Don't adults call ANY kid who climbs trees a monkey?

I mean, that's what happened when I was a kid.

[PeaceNikki]

39. Yeah, this was seriously overblown, IMO.

[TahitiNut]

53. As a kid who spent his outdoor time climbing trees and MONKEY BARS ...

... that's what I recall. At the same time, I'd think I'd stumble over my own tongue before I used such a term to 'correct' some kids I didn't know on someoone else's property.

[Blue_In_AK]

58. I call my grandsons monkeys all the time

except the baby who I call a goober, as in peanut. :shrug:

[quantass]

40. I'm African-American and i think what she said was PERFECTLY NORMAL!

I think it is silly that she had to step down for what she said..i just perused was she said and its context and feel it was completely benign....sadly, i think how the press will play with it and not tell readers the entire thing will possibly upset people, that being said Obama's campaign probably did the right thing and distancing themselves quickly. I hope she doesn't feel bad about this because seriously, this is silly that the news jumped all over it.

[LittleClarkie]

45. I'd like more of the back story, as in what the previous clashes with this woman were

Did the complainant have a reason for thinking that this woman meant something racist?

That said, I call kids yard monkeys often enough.

[lefty from jersey]

50. Monkey, monkey, monkey

The woman has the right, repeat the right, to call anyone, any time any where a monkey or any other animal she so desires. You have the right to be offended and the duty to mind your own business. Where does anyone feel the obligation to understand her meaning or intention. It is preposterous for anyone to feel sure that the intention of the words were racist. Now you monkeys grow the hell up and mind your business.

[Bolo Boffin]

51. From what I've seen, there were previous clashes.

None that would make you think "racist", but plenty that would make you think "neighborhood crank."

She didn't seem to have a reservoir of good will built up in the neighborhood, and that's from hearing her description of previous correcting of kids.

However, when I grew up, I'd get a talking to from just about any adult that saw me acting improperly, and my mother would have thanked them. Times are different, and we know less about our neighbors sometimes.

Bottom line: the kids saw an opportunity to get her in some hot water, and she happened to be an Obama delegate. She could have just as easily been a Clinton delegate, because Clinton has strong Latino support.

Here's something to consider - if she'd been a Clinton delegate, who in this discussion would be on the other side of the issue and who would be on the same side of the issue?

Because I would be defending Clinton from this bogus issue the way I'm defending Obama. I can assure you of that.

[NashVegas]

55. No Kidding!

Lordie, if it'd been a Clinton delegate, we'd have the echo chamber all over it for 48 hours.

[PeaceNikki]

49. OK.. THIS stuck out at me:

We have a trustee who has been convicted on four counts of domestic battery and refuses to resign from the board. He beat his wife with a baseball bat. This seems far less egregious to me.

Why?? WHY is this allowed?

:puke:

When will violence against woman be taken seriously?

[Mags]

54. you ask for it, you got it. Obama

[Danger Mouse]

59. while calling black children 'monkeys' is offensive, giving a ticket for it seems absurd.

:shrug:

[Ino]

60. I call my energetic cat a monkey

But she's pure white, so I guess it's OK.

[cooolandrew]

62. It's unfortunate but it has to be commended for keepign a clean campaign. ..

I don't feel she was being racist and she needs messages of our support, but Obama is doing the right thing to avoid even a trace of even perceived .wrong doing

[2rth2pwr]

63. Disorderly conduct?? wth? That's a Hate Crime.

[BenDavid]

64. Well here again is obama not even believing his own words

because if he did then he would have fired Jesse Jackson Jr in January for playing the racial card against Hillary. But obama did nothing nor said nothing. His campaign is guilty of playing the race card and race baiting and then blaming Hillary. Obama can give a good speech but his words are nothing mre then pure bullshit. He will if he gets the nomination be hard pressed to even get over 35% of the HRC supporters because of this. I for one did not buy into his tall tale that he was never influenced by the racist comments of his pastor for the 20 years he sat in his church listening to his hate filled sermons. How often did obama hear anti Jew and anti israel comments from his pastor? Often i would say, but obama said nothing but now he wants me and my family to believe that he didn't hear it. In all honesty this is why folks that support hrc cannot in good conscience vote for obama because he is a lair. Point blank!

Shalom
Ben David

[boppers]

66. Freaky right wing attack, with a lot of history.

We (those who can read this) are all primates. Period.

I'm glad to be a monkey.