The Day Hillary Lost the Nomination and the Presidency

[galaxy21]

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/07/the_day_hillary_lost_the_nomin/

October 11, 2002 was the day Hillary Clinton joined 77 of her fellow senators (but not 23 Democrats and Lincoln Chafee) and voted to give President Bush the authority to invade Iraq.

That was it. That was the moment that ensured that the first woman with a real shot at becoming President would not be.

In other words, it does not matter a whole lot if Mark Penn is a jerk or if Patti Solis Doyle was not the best campaign manage ever. The person, or persons, responsible for Hillary not becoming President are the ones who told her to go against her instincts and vote for the war.

Of course, I don't know what she thought in her heart of hearts. But she, of all people, had no reason to trust the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld gang. At 25 she was a McGovern activist. She and Bill opposed the Vietnam war. She agreed with the first President Bush's decision not to take out Saddam Hussein in 1991.
Why would she suddenly become a hawk who placed her trust in George W. Bush?

The answer is that she didn't.


She voted for the war because she was told that by voting "no" she would lose the chance to become President. Looking beyond the primaries, she was told she could ignore the raging anti-war sentiment of Democrats and position herself for the general.

In short, she voted for the war for purely political reasons (in contrast to, say, Joe Lieberman and Chuck Schumer who, unlike Hillary, are true hawks).

With that vote, Clinton triggered the candidacy that would destroy her chances. Obama would not have run had she voted "no" because there would have been no opening for him. No matter that he is brilliant, eloquent and JFK-like appealing, he could not have run if Hillary had opposed the war. It was the war vote that made the liberals, the antiwar activists, the kids, and the netroots look for an alternative to Hillary. Without that vote, they would have supported her nomination -- perhaps without great enthusiasm but with enough to make her inevitable.

It was the war vote that finished her off.

Was that Penn's idea? Or Bill's? Or Carville's? Who knows? Whoever it was should have been banished from Hillaryland long ago. Of course, it might have been Hillary herself. If so, the 2002 vote that ended her candidacy should be celebrated as having saved us from a DLC-neocon Presidency. But if, as I assume, the vote was sold to her by cynical staffers, pollsters and strategists, then it is Hillary who was done dirt by people she made rich.

The lesson. On matters of war and peace, vote your conscience. And never ever trust the neocons.




I do agree Hillary never agreed with the war, but she knew a woman would have to look tough and prepared to go to war, but I don't know if I would say that was that. I think people were willing to forgive that, but she never really acknowedged it.

[Adelante]

1. On matters of war and peace, vote your conscience.

:thumbsup:

[Cha]

6. You can imagine..hilary was our Senator here

in New York and we called her office and emailed her..there must have been thousands of us who were crushed that she went with bush and turned her back on us, the military, and the Iraqis.

I voted for Jonathon Tisini in 2006.

[myrna minx]

35. Senator Wellstone voted his conscience and he was in a contentious re-election bid.

After he voted "no" on the IWR, he rose in the polls because of his principled stance.

[Nedsdag]

42. That's the problem.

Hillary doesn't have a conscience.

[movonne]

2. And too put the cherry on the cake her vote for that kyl/lieberman

thingy...that really did it for me...I do disagree that she is not a hawk....I believe she is...not always buy slowly but surly she became a hawk..

[Cha]

7. Exactly..she might not have been but

she thought it was even more politically expedient to become one of those chickenshithawks that thinking people abhor.

[blm]

3. I disagree - I do believe she is every bit the hawk Bill, Schumer and Lieberman are.

.

[dailykoff]

24. Yep. I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

That's where her bread is buttered and she knows it. And the McGovern support must have happened on the way to Bosnia.

[guyanakoolaid]

27. Exactly. If she thought the IWR vote was a mistake, she wouldn't have voted for Liebrmen-Kyl.

She is a rubber-stamp for any war the military industrial complex wants, as are the rest of the DLC traitors.

[blm]

40. Lieberman-Kyl vote - she voted for it as if she knew something was coming. And let's now kid

ourselves - she and Bill do know exactly what BushInc is up to and how long they've been up to it.

[dkf]

33. I honestly don't know what to think about where she stands on this.

Frankly, the only thing I trust her on is that she wants health care insurance for everyone (which is half ass in my book). The rest is a load of BS for political positioning.

Do I trust Hillary? Hell no!

[democrattotheend]

4. That was the day I knew John Kerry would never be president

The day the vote was passed, I remember talking to my grandparents, who were New Yorkers at the time. They were very upset that both of their senators had voted for it. I was shocked that Kerry had, and I remember saying to them "John Kerry just gave up his chance to be president." 5 years later I still believe I was right.

[Cha]

5. I wholeheartedly agree and I'm so

glad this is coming out so strongly and wide spread. How cold-hearted and conniving it is to bomb Iraq for a future pres run?

In fact, The Charleston Gazette endorsed Obama today and one of their points was this Very Thing! :patriot: :patriot:

Hope And Change (922 posts) Wed Apr-09-08 04:05 PM
Original message
Charleston Gazette Endorses Barack Obama

By Sam Graham-Felsen - Apr 8th, 2008 at 1:50 pm EDT

The Charleston Gazette has endorsed Barack Obama for president...

For the first time since the historic 1960 primary election, the Democratic presidential nomination remains hotly contested as West Virginians prepare to vote. So this state's Democrats and independents may, once again, help decide U.S. history.

We hope they support the brilliant, inspiring, eloquent frontrunner in the race, Barack Obama.

Sen. Obama is a rare figure in U.S. politics - a deep thinker who rises above partisan sniping and makes statecraft seem noble. He raises hope that, after the disastrous Bush years mercifully come to an end, Americans can again be proud of their national leader.

Obama appeals to the innate decency in all groups of people, beyond party lines, without personal grandiosity. He fosters a desire to restore America's finest values of honor and fairness.

In endorsing Obama, Sen. Jay Rockefeller pointed out that the young Illinois lawyer had to work hard - "there was nothing sheltered about his life" - but he rose to national stature. Rockefeller said Obama was far-sighted enough to oppose President Bush's unwise plan to invade Iraq while most others, including rival Hillary Clinton, supported the invasion.

"The indisputable fact is, Barack Obama was right about Iraq when many of us were wrong," the West Virginia senator said. "It was a tough call and the single greatest national security question - and mistake - of our time. ... What matters most in the Oval Office is sound judgment and decisive action. It's about getting it right on crucial national security questions the first time, and every time."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5438042

[dchill]

8. You mean it's not about a bookbag?

I gotta get a life. ;)

[Zachstar]

9. The part about Obama running is important.

Had Clinton voted against the war and been active against it. She would have easily ran and had the nomination by super Tuesday.

[galaxy21]

10. In fairness though, even if she had voted no, you just know uneducated, chauvnist hicks WOULD have

held it against her and said 'see woman are too weak to be president, a country could be about to attack us and she'd just cry and try to make peace'.

She was right that she was screwed if she voted no. But she's now screwed because she voted yes as well.

[Zachstar]

18. This is Clinton people. That kind of crap would be brushed aside as people discover that Clinton ...

Would have been overall better than Bush.

[MethuenProgressive]

11. The day Obama Swiftboated the Clintons on race in S.C.

He was able to convince people that the Clintons were racists, and that's what's winning him the nomination.

[galaxy21]

12. Yeah, Barack used jedi mind tricks to force Bill to say all that stuff

[MethuenProgressive]

13. "all that stuff"

Another victim of Obama's Swiftboat bobs to the surface.

[galaxy21]

14. Comparing him to Jesse Jackson and hinting he only won because he was black?

Yeah, saying black voters can't think for themselves, that's not that playing the race card at all.

[MethuenProgressive]

15. Did you get the number of that Swiftboat?

Looks like it ran over you several times.

[galaxy21]

17. No swiftboat...just the actual footage of Bill saying it

[MethuenProgressive]

20. "saying black voters can't think for themselves"? Link to that quote.

You can't.

[galaxy21]

21. actually....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqd2dfjl2pw


Why bring up Jackson in relation to Obama? They have nothing in common.

Oh, right. Bill thinks everyone in SC goes for the black guys regardless of their actual policies... which is what he's saying there. And considering that was what 99% of people who saw that comment intepreteted it as, are you missing something?

And how else to you explain the Jackson comparision, if its not a racial remark?

[johnnydrama]

22. Why?

Why go back 20 years and use Jesse Jackson as an example of a guy who won SC that didn't win the nomination, when he could have gone back 4 years and used John Edwards as that example?

We know why!

[MethuenProgressive]

31. Still waiting for proof Bill Clinton said " black voters can't think for themselves"

None yet, to no one's surprise.

[dchill]

25. Cling to that...

if it helps you deal with your grief - "winning him the nomination." That's gotta hurt.

[MethuenProgressive]

34. Some of us Democrats oppose Swiftboating. You should join us.

Are you a Democrat?

[dchill]

38. You can push that meme as much as you want...

but it doesn't make it true, and it doesn't help anyone. And yes, I'm a Democrat... as far as you know.

[Nedsdag]

43. OK, MethuenProgressive, answer this question:

If Clinton wasn't playing the race card, why didn't he mention the fact that John Edwards (last time I checked, he was white) won the 2004 South Carolina primary? Why did Clinton have to mention Jesse Jackson and Jesse Jackson alone?

[AtomicKitten]

16. Voting for war as a political calculation is reprehensible and must not be rewarded.

The IWR was an egregious assault on democracy. Those that abdicated their Constitutionally mandated war-declaring powers to an idiot should not be allowed to hold public office. Period.

[Sparkly]

19. Kerry, Edwards, and others made the same erroneous political calculation.

I just don't want or need any apologies at this point -- just an end to the whole fiasco.

[samsingh]

23. an infamous day that

i could not understand why Democrats in the Senate were so obliging

[milkyway]

26. Very good post. btw, I heard Hillary say today that she doesn't pay attention to the polls (but

why did she have a pollster as her chief strategist, and then when he was demoted he was replaced by--another pollster? Oh well.)

[Yukari Yakumo]

28. Disagree

IWR may have had a slight role, but it wasn't the deciding factor.

What doomed HRC's coronation is that she played a 1992-style game in 2008. She didn't bother to realize the rules have changed since then, but her arrogance and/or short-sightedness prevented her from realizing it.

[uponit7771]

29. The nail in the coffin was her not admitting it was a mistake and placing blame on the Bush admin

[ClayZ]

30. K and R

[WinkyDink]

32. But...we gave them the GIFT of FREEDOM!!

[Tesha]

36. That's the day she lost us.

Mr. Tesa and I made substantial contributions to her
2000 Senate campaign, but that was the day she lost
us. We might have accepted her admission that her vote
was wrong, or naive, or even "politically calculating",
but she's never offered any of those explanations.

Tesha

[liberaldem4ever]

37. Kick & Recommend!!

[SeaLyons]

39. She Hasn't Lost It....

and she won't, and although that's hard to believe with all the swift boating that has been thrown at her, she not only will win the nomination, she will win the GE as well.

Go Hillary!!

[blm]

44. Shouldn't we be saying WHTrashing instead of swiftboating? Clintons couldn't control THAT story

and it hung out there in the media for 9 months. Dem party's failure to knock down that story set the tone for all the smears of Dems that would come forward the next 6 years.

Besides - did you see and hear the Clintons and their loyalists putting up a wall of noise against the swifts and Bush at all from 2001-2007?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

41. That was certainly the day....

she lost me -- and I say this as someone who repeatedly said during Bill Clinton's first run that I wished it was Hillary I was voting for! :(