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When did Obama arrive at his current Iraq Troop Withdrawl position?

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:36 PM
Original message
When did Obama arrive at his current Iraq Troop Withdrawl position?
First it was March 31st 2008
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013001586.html
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 31, 2007; Page A04

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, one of the most prominent Democrats in the 2008 presidential field, proposed for the first time setting a deadline for withdrawing troops from Iraq, as part of a broader plan aimed at bolstering the freshman senator's foreign policy credentials.
Obama's legislation, offered on the Senate floor last night, would remove all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008. The date falls within the parameters offered by the bipartisan Iraq Study Group, which recommended the removal of combat troops by the first quarter of next year.

{If you're wondering whatever happen to Obama's Big Bill, it was never voted on, it was sent back to Obama's own committee where it never saw the light of day again.)

Then it was not until sometime after 2012
http://action.richardsonforpresident.com/page/content/2013/obamarecord/

Refuses to Pledge to Get Our Troops Out by 2013, the End Of His First Term
RUSSERT: "Will you pledge that by January 2013, the end of your first term, more than five years from now, there will be no U.S. troops in Iraq?"

OBAMA: "I think it's hard to project four years from now, and I think it would be irresponsible. We don't know what contingency will be out there.

What I can promise is that if there are still troops in Iraq when I take office -- which it appears there may be, unless we can get some of our Republican colleagues to change their mind and cut off funding without a timetable -- if there's no timetable -- then I will drastically reduce our presence there to the mission of protecting our embassy, protecting our civilians, and making sure that we're carrying out counterterrorism activities there. I believe that we should have all our troops out by 2013, but I don't want to make promises, not knowing what the situation's going to be three or four years out."
-- From 9/26 DNC Debate at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire.

Would Leave a Residual Force of Up to 60,000 troops in Iraq
"My plan for ending the war would turn the page in Iraq by removing our combat troops from Iraq's civil war."
-- Speech in Clinton, Iowa 9/12/2007.

Under the Obama plan, American troops may remain in Iraq or the region. These American troops will protect American diplomatic and military personnel in Iraq, and continue striking at al Qaeda in Iraq. If Iraq makes political progress and their security forces are not sectarian, we would also continue training othe Iraqi Security Forces.
-- Barack Obama: Turning the Page in Iraq. BarackObama.com

The Center for American Progress estimates that such an undertaking in Iraq would require a force of around 60,000 troops.
-- "Strategic Redeployment 2.0: A Progressive Strategy for Iraq." The Center for American Progress. By Lawrence Korb and Brian Katulis. May 2006.

Claims to Want to End War, but Votes for Half Measures
Senator Obama has again and again advocated ending the war in Iraq, but has settled for half measures, including an amendment proposed by Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) that, by Senator Levin's own admission, would only, "cut troop levels in Iraq by more than half."
-- From "Senate Blocks Bill on Combat Tours." Associated Press. By Anne Flaherty. 19 September 2007


And then the other day it was:
"Nobody's asking for a precipitous withdrawal,"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89490004&ft=1&f=1012

So what exactly is his "position" now? No quick withdrawl, even though that's what he's been promising in his stump speeches?
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Whatever the hell his position is, it's a hell of a lot better than Hillary's
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Well, one or two of his Iraq positions probably are. Some are worse.
His positions are like ties. He changes them frequently, depending on which image he wants to project that day.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. It can't get any worse than lying a country into war.
And then claiming that you were just too lazy to do the homework.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. No, Bush is clearly worse. But with Obama's truthiness, brace yourself. nt
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's why he wants a VP who knows stuff...
Cuz, he can't seem to make up his mind.

:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. He'd better not pick Richardson - most of that is from Bill's own site.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Too funny.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. After listening to Hillary give a speech?
That is when he seems to get all his great ideas...
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. He does seem to climb on to her ideas (Hope, Change, Olympic Boycott, etc)
He's a chameleon.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's for sure....Maybe worse!
Tim Russert - "But what is his name, Senator Clinton?"

Hillary Clinton - "Med, um Medvedi, Medye."

Tim Russert - "Wrong, its Dmitry Medvedev."

Hillary Clinton - "I knew that..."

Tim Russert - "Senator Obama - Same question."

Barack Obama - "Umm...it's Dmi-try Med-ved-ev."

Tim Russert - "Very good Senator Obama! Very good indeed." As Tim glares at Hillary.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. And they both climbed on to Edwards' ideas.
x( They're both chameleons.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Yeah, but... Hillary's is Universal, like John's. BO's leaves millions without insurance.
It's bizarre that BO actually admits he doesn't want some people to enjoy good health.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. You mean his American plan, or the one he tells the BBC?
He tells our allies one thing, and the voters another. Same with NAFTA.

But hey, Clinton is the liar, not him. Ask the goddamned media. Just like Al Gore.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I would imagine that they would be doing the same to Gore as they are to Clinton if he were running.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. If by "they" you mean the same people in both parties who are smearing Clinton now
then yes, they would, and they did. I was here in 02 and 03, and Gore got the same treatment on DU that Clinton is getting now. Only when he dropped out did the same DUers start praising him, and then only because they wanted to blame the DLC or the DNC or Bill Clinton for sabotaging him.

And these were the exact some posters, in some cases.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wasn't it in his Kindergarten Papers?
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. His supporters will say he's nuanced. On the tough decisions he votes "Present!"
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. In the illinois senate
Present = No.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. LOL! And the green button means no!
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It takes affirmative votes to pass legislation in IL
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 05:07 PM by Gore1FL
Present and No = No votes.

If you don't like it write to your IL congressman.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. So why not have the balls to just vote "no"? You know the answer
He wanted to have it both ways with voters by voting "present."
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. when did Hilary apologize for voting for the war?
oh yeah, that's right, she didn't
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You are right, she didn't.... vote for the war, that is.
She voted to force Bush to try a diplomatic option first. Bush was going to war, with or without the IWR. It was a weak attempt to restrict Bush, but it was the only attempt that the Republican Congress would allow.

And she did say the vote was a mistake. She didn't apologize for it, and she shouldn't have, since her motives were honest.

You may not understand that, but Obama does, so he is lying every time he says otherwise.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. That may have been her intent
But I remember 2002 here pretty well, and everyone knew that vote meant Bush would rush into a war. I find it hard to believe that those in congress were not aware of that likelihood.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yeah, because that did a world of good for Edwards...
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. When he began running for president as the "anti-war" candidate
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Senator Obama seems to follow the leads of others in most controversial areas...
he does seem to have problems making decisions--even about fairly simple, but controversial matters.

This has been his MO for his entire political career.

I grant you he is quite bright and very well educated.

Where is his statement concerning the mercenaries? Where is his statement to accompany his remarks about raising the level of the military(numbers)? How does he stand on the draft? Want to build a larger military? Then you will have to have a draft.

What is his position on the 14 illegal US bases in Iraq?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. He didn't know whether there is a war on terror until he looked at Hillary's answer in one debate
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Mercenaries
Obama says he will keep using Blackwater, that they just need a bit of oversight. Most Obama supporters assume he opposes the use of contract killers, but he thinks they just need a rule book to follow and they will be fine.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, lets take a look at these things:
The first bill speaks of a 15 month plan to get COMBAT troops out of Iraq.

The Debate Question was removing ALL troops from Iraq, regardless of circumstances and situations not widely know bewcause Bush is sitting on the truth.

Finally, lets look at the definition of precipitous:

1: precipitate
2 a: very steep, perpendicular, or overhanging in rise or fall <a precipitous slope> b: having precipitous sides <a precipitous gorge> c: having a very steep ascent <a precipitous street>

That implies an unsafe rush.

So what exactly is his position now? The same is it has been all along, is my guess: To remove troops at a pace reasonable to assure their safety, not over extend the withdrawl apparatus in a costly or unreasonable way, and do so taking into account the situation and environment that such troop movements would happen in.

Quick withdrawal is a planned and time-based procedure based upon the knowledge, skills, and resources of those involved. It is not like flushing a toilet. A quick withdrawal is going to take over a year at a minimum.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. He specifically said 2009
or so.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. He likes to xerox from Hillary. He is very good at it
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
29. Remember when HRC said all obama had was a speech in
2002.....Maybe her bigger point was: Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2003? Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2004, at Kerry's convention? Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2005?
Where was Obama's big anti-war speech in 2006? Where was Obama's anti-war filibuster in 2007? Was stopping the war worth standing up, Barack? Where was Obama's anti-war filibuster in 2008? Was stopping the war worth standing up, Barack? Perhaps HRC was really asking, "If he's got more than a 2002 speech - where is it?".

If Obama even wins the nomination and somehow wins it all, I'll bet he'll come up with a reason why he's not going to bring the troops home. I think he'll say, "With the bigger picture I now have as president, and after talking with the generals I am convinced that it would be unwise to lower troop levels at this time."


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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yup
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Great post BenDavid!
You should post that truth in a thread of its own. :thumbsup:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. Thanks for the insightful response, BenDavid
Appreciated.
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ArkySue Donating Member (647 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
33. K & R
:kick:
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
34. Excellent post and something for all to think about.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. BO plays fast and loose with the Truth, comes down soft on all sides of every issue..
..no wonder He's so popular - everybodys thinks He's on their side!
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