Why do people assume that McClurkin is telling the truth about what he is?

[Solon]

I've seen posts that express sympathy towards McClurkin for being a "repressed Homosexual" and a self loathing one at that. However, the only fact we have really is McClurkin's own words, and to be honest, I don't see why we should take them at face value. The only thing I can think of that I could possibly sympathize with McClurkin on is the child abuse he went through, I don't doubt him on that, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

The fact of the matter is that until he wrote his book about being "ex-gay" I don't think many he suspected it, those that heard about him anyways. The worst part is that he linked it with his child abuse, creating a false premise to begin with, that sexual abuse leads to either homosexuality or changing of sexual orientation. No better than people who claim Lesbians are created when the women in question are raped by men. I don't see a connection with either. Oh, it would damage trust issues, especially with certain authority figures, or with men, but I don't think it changes who people are attracted to.

Its perfectly possible that McClurkin is straight, or a bisexual, in either case he's still fucked up psychologically, but isn't and wasn't ever gay. The fact is that it doesn't matter whether he's actually gay, straight, or bi, in any of these cases he's still a shameless self promoter of the frankly dangerous ideology that people can change their orientation by choice, or even by force, which is even more dangerous.

My question is and always will be, why the fuck did he link the past child abuse he was a victim of with his possible sexual orientation? Even worse, why does he think homosexuality is a curse, a deviancy, that needs to be cured? I would have more sympathy for the guy if he actually didn't link himself with the reparative therapy movement which seeks to cure GLBT kids of their "deviancy", usually through torture, both psychological and physical. If this man actually cared about child abuse, why does he side with some of the abusers?

[grantcart]

1. You seemed to be referring to one of my replies although there may have been

others.

My opinion on his being a self hating gay person is based on the short video rant that shows a person under obvious personal contradiction. If he is not a self hating gay then he is suffering from some other disabling psychological condition. But of course I could be wrong.

[Solon]

4. Regardless of that, whether he's suffering psychologically or not...

I don't see why he should garner any sympathy for what he is doing now, which is spreading hate.

[grantcart]

5. The only clip I saw was a guy who came out

jabbered on and on about loving everyone not being against anything and extending love to gays and then went on to reach a near pentacostal state where he thanked God for saving him from the sin of homosexuality. I saw a person who continues to hate himself, unable to accept himself try terribly hard to convince himself that he is not gay. Since I know for a fact that you cannot choose it and you cannot recover from it I cannot take his statement that he is no longer gay seriously.

Your statement 'regardless of . . . whether he's suffering psychologically or not . . .I don't see why he should garner any sympathy for what he is doing now, which is spreading hate' is incomprehensible to me for two reasons;

1) The only clip I saw was spreading ignorance not hate. He specifically states people should love gays. I would be curious to see any link where he states gays should be hated.

2) If he is suffering psychologically he should be helped. I had a friend in college who went thru periods denying his homosexuality and after several attempts was successful in committing suicide. Gay people who come from conservative religious communities are the ones who suffer the most. You seem to be devoid of any compassion for people who come from families and communities that reject them totally forcing them into a nightmare of self understanding and self hatred.

The most revealing thing about this whole episode is that some folks feel that this is some kind of gotcha on Senator Obama and will endeavor to bring it up ad naseum the rest of the campaign, his administration and his life. Senator Obama has consistently called out the black community (as has Rev Wright) including bringing it up on MLK's birthday at MLK's Church. He has decided not to drag this pathetic fellow into the spotlight any further. Given what has happened to Rev. Wright and the intensity of scrutiny that would follow I find this to be a compassionate action.

You will continue to bang this drum for motivations that are known only to you. It is, however, counterproductive to the interests of the community you claim to champion.

[LostinVA]

6. The ex-gay movement kills people

McClurkin has NO sympathy from me. I suggest you research gay teen suicide rates and the ex-gay movement.

[grantcart]

10. If you read up thread you will see that I had a friend in college

who committed suicide after being unable to 'reform' his sexuality.

McClurkin is on his way down that track. He is a gay man who having been hounded by an intolerant fundamentalist community lives in a world of false salvation and self hate. He is the classic victim of it and I wouldn't be surprised the next suicide. The OP concedes that his suffering psychologically but that he is somehow unfit for compassion.


I think that the 'ex-gay' movement should be exposed for the fraud that it is. I just can't get up the hate against the poor gay man who is psychologically tormented and gets trapped in its sickness.

[Solon]

11. The difference between McClurkin and your friend is that McClurkin perpetuates...

the myth and advocates for the "ex-gay" movement. He could have the decency to get real help, and, assuming he is actually homosexual and isn't just lying to garner sympathy, accept who he is. Until then, he's positioned himself as an enemy of all those who want to reduce the suicide rate of GLBT people.

[JoFerret]

17. he may be gay. he may not be

I can take him at his word.
that is all irrelevant.

Human sexuality is not so simple. homophobia is the poison.

[LostinVA]

20. Your friend was a victim of the Ex-Gay Movement -- McClurkin is a leader of it

Why should he be deserving of sympathy? It's because of people like him that people like your friend are psychologically, and often physically, tortured.

McClurkin is not a victim. He is a victimizer.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. If Donnie practiced his own 'faith'

And only spoke of his personal experience that would be one thing. He's not a gay man, according to Donnie, and that is only for a person to say, not others.
As I am sure you know, many people who committ even violent crimes are lashing out due to psychological torment. They still remain resposnable for their actions unless declared mentally incompetant.
I can not judge Donnie's mental health, nor his sexual truth, nor can you. No one is asking you to hate him, rather to stand up for the people being attacked by him, be it due to his illness or his evil heart or whatever. I think he does it for money. For which I have zero sympathy. Donnie of course sang a teary eyed version of Stand to and for GW Bush at the GOP 2004 convention live on TV. Here is a quote from Donnie about Bush and about Donnie's priorities. This is what you defend:

“Traveling around the world, sitting with the president, this means more than anything to me.”. Donnie McClurkin

Interesting priorities for a Preacher man.

[JoFerret]

16. Homophobia kills

It destroys lives and distorts the very world we live in for everyone.

It is a poisonous stew in which we all have to try and swim.

[Solon]

7. So you are basing your sympathy on ignorance?

and then you turn around and say that I lack compassion? Why not cure yourself of that ignorance before you make yourself look like an ass!

[grantcart]

8. I am backing my sympathy on the suffering I perceive him to be in

I could be wrong but I would rather be wrong in being overly compassionate. People who I know who live in deeply have fundamentalist communities have no real hope of escaping the toxic environment. Why did people like Raymond Burr who had ever success have to hide who they were. Some people can get up and leave their families and save themselves and move to San Francisco. Some cannot.


But why are you starting the 5,000 thread about this in GD:P? This issue is completely irrelevent to the election of the next President.

[Solon]

9. This is my first thread in weeks, so I don't know where you get the 5,000 thread thing from...

See, this is why I don't like your overly compassionate position, McClurkin is a guy who advocates for the TORTURE of GLBT teens, kids who are already more prone to commit suicide. Why not save our compassion for them? McClurkin is an adult, a successful one at that, he has options many teenagers don't have, so stop treating him like a victim. He didn't need to attach himself to the "ex-gay" movement, yet he did, whether as a meal ticket, or to try to garner sympathy for his anti-GLBT cause. In any event, he doesn't deserve your sympathy.

[grantcart]

13. You see him as a torturer.

I see him as a victim who if anybody actually listens to him helps creates more victims. We don't differ on the lethal menace of the 'ex-gay' movement. If you have not grown up in a fundamentalist religious community you may not be aware of how difficult it can be for them to leave it. My brother in law who I support financially with room and board was never able to attend school because he refused to wear boys clothes despite being repeatedly spanked. My neice died of aids so LGBT issues are not theoretical to me.

I don't see any need to save compassion for one group who suffers and withhold it from another. I rather think it is contagious.

You have been very reasonable in tolerating my opinion in this thread. It is highly unusual in a McClurkin thread. I didn't say that you had started multiple McClurkin threads but they still exist. But the real motivation for most threads on McClurkin is, in my opinion, nothing to do with McClurkin or the question of Obama's stand in LGBT issues but rather to help foster animus against Obama, primarily because of his faith and the conservative faith of some of his followers.

Here is one going on right now http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5446271&mesg_id=5446271

I don't think anything in this thread has any bearing on the nomination of the best democratic candidate for President.

[Solon]

14. I technically support Obama, in that I don't think he's as bad as Hillary...

I still think both of them are mediocre, at best, the best Democratic candidate was Kucinich, but, unfortunately, he didn't have a chance. I can acknowledge reality without liking it, and I don't like it at all.

As for this thread, it was actually inspired by a different poster, I didn't see your posts about McClurkin at the time. I will say that Obama does seem to be deaf to certain positions, such as why McClurkin was so offensive.

I'm sorry about your niece and friend, I have a friend, who is a lesbian, attempt suicide right in front of me, I had to pry the knife out of her hand and damn near break her arm just to prevent her from hurting herself. She had to deal with the Mormon church rejecting her and her family rejecting her. So its not theoretical for me either.

My problem has always been, why have compassion for oppressors at all? How do you show compassion to those who help to hurt others? My compassion has limits, I make distinctions for a reason, I oppose bigots, no matter what their justification is for that bigotry, its evil.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. You are wrong

You don't understand the language or the work of McClurkin and the Exodus movement. The events are unintelligable to you. Love? Please!
I think your drum is being banged for a single person, and that you are one hell of an arrogant person to presume to tell others how to fight for our rights and equality.
And I agree, McClurkin needs mental health care, and one of the great crimes of the church and of men like Obama is that they let a sick man go without treatment, rationalizing his illness in order to profit by his ravings.
Hey, do you know who Bayard Rustin was?

[nomorenomore08]

2. Didn't some guy come forward claiming to have had an affair with McClurkin relatively recently?

Or am I mis-remembering?

That said, whatever McClurkin's orientation may be, it's secondary to the fact that he's a nutjob with the potential to do a lot of harm.

[Solon]

3. Supposedly he had a boyfriend in 2003-2004, I don't know if it has ever been confirmed...

Even if it was, like you said, it doesn't really matter, he is a nutjob who does a lot of harm with actions and words, that should be enough.

[newmajority]

12. Donnie has been religiously programmed to believe that nobody is born gay

Yet he KNOWS damn well he didn't actually "choose" to be gay, then one has to find another explanation. Blaming it on child molesters seems like a convenient way to do so.

I don't know whether McCloset is gay, bisexual, straight, or if he prefers sheep, and really couldn't care less either way. But he's gotta get away from the fundagelical programming if he ever wants to truly answer that question himself.

[2rth2pwr]

15. Why do people assume that Obama is telling the truth about what he is?

[JoFerret]

18. I don't

How would he know?
Does Obama even know himself (yet). Doesn't sound like it to me.

[cali]

19. care to explain that?

Is this more Sinclair crap? Are you suggesting that Obama is really on
the down low? Or is it just another mindless and vague bash?

[2rth2pwr]

27. I was showing the ridiculousness of the question in the OP

That question can be asked of anybody, about any subject.

[xchrom]

21. donnie is making a good living from his supposed victim-hood

and working hard to persecute others while dressing it up as love.

[PurityOfEssence]

25. Religion's a great racket, isn't it?

Selling a product (the afterlife) that you never have to even deliver, you're given the carte blanche to suck outrageous money out of people, be viewed as "better" than others and have ample cover for all sorts of nasty behavior to boot.

[xchrom]

26. and now you have a whole political campaign built on 'religiosity' --

and embracing the mcclurkins with the soft pedal phony folksy notion of 'we gotta talk'.

all of it thinly veiling a real contempt for lgbtiq folk.

[BigDDem]

22. Obama / McClurkin '08!