Why Should Clinton Just Pack It In When Nothing Is Decided?

[ZombieHorde]

By Stuart Rothenberg

snip

Clinton has spent more than a year of her life running for president, and some of her supporters have given more than a year of their lives. Given the closeness of the Democratic contest, it’s hard to see why, at this point, Clinton should simply walk away. She and her supporters have too much invested in her candidacy to accept defeat before Obama has the 2,024 committed delegates he needs to guarantee his nomination.

Clinton’s upset scenario is based on two hopes. First, she must hope that Obama makes another mistake or that information surfaces that so far has not. Given the Illinois Senator’s relatively brief time under the national microscope, that certainly is possible.

And second, Clinton must hope that before Obama locks up the nomination, national polls show that she has a much better chance of beating McCain than he does. The “electability” issue remains a wild card in the Democratic contest, and it could well be the Clinton campaign’s best hope.

Finally, it’s more than a little amusing that some observers are calling for Clinton’s exit given the twists and turns that we have seen during this campaign. Obama wasn’t expected to win Iowa. After he did, Clinton was widely regarded as DOA in New Hampshire, which she won. McCain’s candidacy was all but over in July and August.

You’d think that we’d all be a bit more humble and modest given the presidential elections we’ve witnessed over the past decade, especially since there are just a couple of months to go until the primaries are over.

Clinton should play every card she has in her hand. She owes it to herself and, even more important, to all of her supporters.

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Link if you wish to read the beginning of the article.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/why_should_clinton_just_pack_i.html

[AtomicKitten]

1. Why? Because arguably her ONLY path to victory is get the SDs to overturn the will of the voters.

And that flies in the face of her sniveling over Florida and Michigan.

[TheWraith]

12. Bingo. She's pursuing the Bush 2000 strategy: If you can't win, steal the election. nt

[AtomicKitten]

22. It does kinda reek of that, doesn't it?

I think we are dangerously close to this bit of nastiness in a deja vu kind of way:

[Ilithiad]

36. Steal the election

Steal the election...that is just nonsense...like she would hold a gun to a SD and make them vote for her...You ppl forget to realize that the SD will base their decision on who will be most likely to beat mccain in November and Hillary has a better shot than Obama. Mccain's tactic of "not experienced enough" would apply to Obama and not Hillary should he face her.

[AtomicKitten]

39. The superdelegates will not overturn the will of the voters (i.e., delegate count)

And apparently you agree:

Hillary Supporters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5455918

I am a Hillary supporter but she cannot mathematically win the nomination without a massive swing of the SD of at least 70%. Lets be honest with ourselves and swing our support behind Obama now so we have a much greater chance of beating mccain. I have mistakenly stated in the past I would vote for mccain if Obama wins the nomination but that would be a grevious mistake and betray my democratic ideals. I must blame my evil twin. Obama may not be experienced enough to be president of the United States but I think he will show wisdom and select a cabinet that has knowledge and experience in the areas he lacks. Obama is not my choice as the nominee but he is who I will be stuck with and 8 years of republican rule is enough! Put and end to the right wing/corporation backing/religious right movement before more and more of our rights are taken away from us. I dont advocate Hillary should pull out of the nomination, but she must know mathematically she cannot win without massive SD support and overturns the popular vote which would be bad for the democratic party.

[TheWraith]

41. Are you kidding? McCain would destroy Clinton on "experience."

Rhetoric aside, Clinton has no more experience than Obama: she has 7 years as a legislator, Obama has 11. And Obama isn't on the record lying about his accomplishments six or seven times, or trying to fabricate a war record.

And the superdelegates are not going to overturn the will of the people.

[Cha]

16. Wouldn't bother stuart rosenberg..

hilary "hoping Obama makes another mistake"? Just how many has hilary racked up?

These hilary surrogates would crack me up if they weren't so obliviously pathetic.

[AtomicKitten]

23. It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Their campaigns remind me of Unbreakable in that polar opposite kind of way.

[Lyric]

31. I'm am so sick of seeing people characterize a slight lead at best as

"the will of the voters". :puke:

"Will of the voters" implies some kind of mandate, which Obama does not have. If Obama was truly "the will of the voters", we wouldn't BE here now. He'd have wrapped this up, indisputably, months ago. If Obama doesn't have enough Dels to gain the nomination by convention, then the primaries are nullified and the party chooses the candidate. Frankly, I don't think they're going to give a damn about whether Clinton said something hypocritical or not, because the superdels are politicians. All politicians are hypocrites sometimes. It's part of the game.

Roughly half our primary voters are Obama supporters, roughly half are Clinton supporters, and what it's going to come down to in the end is who can WIN, and who's going to do the best job. I realize that DU holds a grudge forever, but in the Really Real World, those two things are what matter. My guess is that they'll consider the stats for both campaigns, and go with whoever's got the best shot of bringing home the electoral votes. There are arguments for both, in that respect.

I'm behind the Dem nominee no matter who it is, but it's highly annoying to constantly see the melodramatic hand-wringing over the "will of the people". The people couldn't decide. Therefore, it's now down to the Will of the Politicians for EITHER candidate, period. The constant references to FL and MI are asinine. The Dem leaders in that state were fucking stupid and arrogant to break the rules in an election this important, and it sucks like hell for the innocent voters (and non-voters) who suffer for it, but that's the way it is. FL and MI are a non-issue now.

Folks here need to stop passing pre-judgement on the same national party leadership (i.e., the superdelegates) that they hold up as paragons of rule-making when talking about FL and MI. That's every bit as hypocritical and nitpicky as anything DU accuses Clinton or Obama of doing.

[AtomicKitten]

38. Obama's delegate count is insurmountable.

Don't believe me? There are several threads on this page dedicated to assisting you in doing the math.

Hey, nice job with the vomiting smilie next to "will of the voters." That pretty much sums up what the Clintons and apparently you think of the democratic process.

[kwenu]

2. So what does she owe her party? That small organization that she is running to be the nominee of?

[DJ13]

3. Clinton should play every card she has in her hand.

or "How to be a Republican on a Democratic Ticket" by Hillary Clinton.

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. ...

:eyes:

[OzarkDem]

4. Primaries of key electoral states are still ahead

and Michigan and Florida, also key electoral states, still haven't been counted.

The GE is where we have to win and we need to choose a candidate who can win the popular and electoral vote. Winning primaries in small states that won't vote Dem in the GE isn't enough. Hoping you can win the GE by sacrificing key electoral states and trying to make up the difference in small red states is a losing strategy.

It has to play out...

[MessiahRp]

7. Yes only NY and CA count for anything... all other states should piss off.

My state went for Obama. If WI went for McCain she'd lose the GE even with NY and CA.

Not to mention in the general they always go for the Democrat so they will vote for Obama anyway. It's those small, usually red states that he might close the gap on and flip.

Rp

[jackson_dem]

28. It is simple electoral math: size matters

Which of those states will he take? Wyoming? Let's get real. These are states where Bush is still fairly popular. To trade Florida, Ohio, and probably Pennsylvania and perhaps Michigan (and if things go REALLY bad New Jersey, New York, and Massachusetts) for a fool's errand in Wyoming and Idaho makes no sense. There aren't even any 2% turnout caucuses in the general election.

[MessiahRp]

30. He'll win MI, PA and possibly FL and OH in the general

If losing a state in a primary meant you would always lose it in the GE, we'd have had some incredibly different election results over the years.

I believe NY, NJ, CA, MA are all safe blue REGARDLESS of whether it's Obama or Hillary. I think he will win MI and PA REGARDLESS because they have all been crushed by the Bush economy. I have confidence that OH will follow suit. FL is a question mark because the state politics that gets involved with their elections seems to screw with things a lot.

I think he also could make a lot of the supposedly "out of play so let's forget them" red states winnable and put them in play, especially a state like South Carolina.

We've been using this selective, Clintonian, Safe State strategy for years and it explains why we've struggled so badly in national elections. Even when Kerry and Gore won their elections it was still close enough to cheat.

Will Obama flip Colorado or Montana? He could. He could win Virginia or South Carolina. If he picks Richardson as his VP he will likely win New Mexico and give McCain a run in Arizona.

I think this whole "the only states that count are the ones Clinton won" is a pathetic attempt to validate her as the better candidate when in reality if she only won the states she's won and PA in a general race, she'd still lose by a landslide.

Rp

[TheWraith]

13. Right, because that 15-state strategy worked so well for Kerry and Gore.

"The GE is where we have to win and we need to choose a candidate who can win the popular and electoral vote."

And that's really, really rich coming from a supporter of the candidate that's losing by every relevant metric, including popular votes, independent appeal, voter mobilization, etcetera, etcetera.

[Ilithiad]

37. Small states

You hit it right on the head....Who carried the big states which will vote democrat? Hillary. Who won the small states which traditionally vote republican? Obama. Remember many states obama won allowed republicans to vote in the democrat primaries and it is false sense of security to think those voters will vote for Obama again. They are salivating for a Mccain/Obama matchup because it is very possible Obama will lose the GE. And I know how could anyone vote for 4 more years of republican rule, but remember there are a lot of ppl out there who are supporters out there for the religious/right wing movement.

[SwampG8r]

43. hillary signed off on that (mi & fl rules)

before the primaries began
to go back on her pledge now just makes her even more of a liar

[RC]

5. Somebody need to sit down with Hillary and explain what

'Imposable odds' means. Followed up with the meaning of 'losing'.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Here's why:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/04/10/wilentz_reply/

[elocs]

8. Why did Dodd, Biden, Kucinich, and Edwards all pack it in when nothing was decided?

After all, some miracle might have occurred. It might have been discovered that Obama and Clinton were actually aliens from another galaxy and therefore ineligible to be president. Yes, why oh why did those other fine candidates pack it in when nothing was decided?

[emilyg]

11. They were getting no votes.

[hfojvt]

40. after one contest - the Iowa caucuses

Where only 10% of the eligible voters actually show up, and where anything less than 15% per precinct counts as a zero. After that both Biden and Dodd dropped out. Richardson left after New Hampshire, before 98% of the US population had even voted, it was basically down to three.

Kucinich kept getting shut out of debates, even on PBS, and Edwards did not even make it to Super Tuesday. Only 6 states had voted if you count Michigan and Florida, and most had taken their name off the Michigan ballot, and Florida was told it would not count.

Unlike now, most of the country still hadn't voted.

[PoliticalAmazon]

9. She should quite before every person in the country hates her. n/t

[Hepburn]

32. What do you mean, "before?" n/t

[johnnydrama]

10. say what:?

National polls say she has a much better chance of beating McCain?

Can you say baloney. At the best for her, she's even with Obama vs McCain.

[mtnsnake]

14. The only thing Hillary will be packing are her bags when she moves from the Senate to the WH

:smoke:

[azmouse]

15. It's not just that Hillary can't win the nomination,

it's that she has already lost.
For the good of the party, she needs to get out of the race and let the party focus on McSame.

[crankychatter]

17. The undead roam the night eating the flesh of other Democrats

back to the nether realm for ya

[Elidor]

18. There was a time when I though she should quit the race

But there are two good reasons why she should stay in: 1) for her supporters, and 2) for Barack Obama; because she can't kill him, only make him stronger.

[stevietheman]

19. Because Obama is the nominee. Kiss the ring. n/t

n/t

[99th_Monkey]

20. because there's NO way she can get the nomination cleanly and legitamately

She'll need to over-ride the clear majority preference of the voters to do so, something even Pelosi
finds disgusting and self-defeating for Democratic Party..

[Gore1FL]

21. Well, if I were at a race track

And the horse I bet on was 10 lengths behind, and there was only a few feet left of the race left, I'd probably be ready to admit I blew the bet.

It was realistically over after Wisconsin.

I am sure some Patriots thought they had a chance at the Super bowl on the last down too--the game wasn't over, there were still seconds left on the clock.... but realistically, it was over when the giants scored their last TD.

in the scope of almost 4050 delegates 130 may not seem like a big deficit, but 130 out of 566 is a damn big chunk. even adding the uncommitted super delegates, 130 is a damn big chunk. There s no sign, no indication, nor is there the remotest likelihood this is going to change.

It's over. The clock is simply still running, the finish line isn't crossed--whatever analogy you want...but everyone with an honest perspective knows who the winner is going to be.

[Taxmyth]

24. If I were at the Race Track

and the horse I bet on was 10 lengths behind at the top of the stretch I would wait to see if she made a huge move at the 1/8th pole before I'd be willing to concede a loss on that bet. And even then, it's not over until it's official. This race isn't official.

[Gore1FL]

44. But seeing that the horse that is behnd isn't even at a gallop

and the one in front seems to be increasing in speed, The only thing left to wait for is the end of the race. It's a lot closer to the finish than the 1/8 pole. There is 200 meters left for the first horse and the second horse is trotting with about 400 left.

Dream what you want to dream. It's your call. Realistically, It's been over since Wisconsin. The lack of needed performance in TX and OH put it out of reach.

[progetto]

25. yes, play all cards and then fold when she's lost.

What worries me is Hillary may not know when it's over. An open delegate fight at the convention is a gamble I don't want take. Dean is right, the SDs should decide before the convention and that's it.

[DemBones DemBones]

26. She shouldn't quit. Obama just likes to eliminate the competition

because he can't win against an opponent with any strength.

In his first election, he had a team of people go over the petitions of his four opponents, including the popular Democratic incumbent, and find technicalities which disqualified them.

So Mr. Unity ran unopposed. Nice way to treat fellow Democrats, wasn't it?

When he ran for the U.S. Senate, there were two Republicans considering running for the seat.

By some strange coincidence, both were knocked out of the running when their divorce records were somehow leaked. The GOP ended up bringing in Alan Keyes, who lives in MD, to run against Obama, who won easily.

So Obama essentially ran unopposed then, too.

Now he's got an opponent who's not going to bow out just because he wants her to.

And she shouldn't, because the race is very close and the stakes are very high.

If Obama manages to get the nomination, say hello to President McCain.

[PseudoIntellect]

29. "he can't win against an opponent with any strength."

Hillary must not be an opponent with any strength, then.

And I disagree, she does have strength. He's stronger, though. :) That's why he's winning.

[PVnRT]

33. Gosh, those poor, poor Republicans

I'm sure you weep for them and how badly they were treated.

[Voltaire]

35. He can't beat an opponent with any strength eh?

Who was in front last time YOU checked?

[question everything]

27. Right. It is her candidacy and she should be the one making the decision

with Obama supporters so adamant that she should quit, one has to wonder what they are afraid of.

[Vinca]

34. I want her to stay in until the bitter end, even though it is damaging

our chances of beating McCain. Why? Because if she doesn't, we will be subjected to her whining and false claims of sexism for the next 4 years. I also hope before she's dragged off stage that Obama is so far ahead he can tell her to take every Michigan and Florida delegate she feels she's entitled to.

[Imagevision]

45. Admit it, more BS. has been exposed about Billary then Obama, I

really wouldn't want Hillary to even park my jeep!