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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:54 PM
Original message
Obama's Illusions on Foreign Policy
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 11:21 PM by Lithos
Expert guest post by Joseph C. Wilson IV

Sen. Barack Obama declared in Pennsylvania on March 27 that his foreign policy would "return" to that of George H.W. Bush and that Sens. John McCain and Hillary Rodham Clinton both had strayed from that model. Having served in the first Bush administration, as acting U.S. ambassador to Iraq in the run-up to the first Gulf War, and subsequently as ambassador to two African nations, I cannot fathom what Obama is asserting.

...Snip...

In fact, Obama's understanding of foreign policy is extraordinarily limited. He has had one job in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee: chairman of the Europe and NATO subcommittee. He has not held a single policy hearing in that capacity because, as he said in a debate, he has been too busy running for president. He has not even taken a fact-finding trip or provided any other oversight.

As to Obama's self-promoted "judgment," which judgment would that be? Would it be to follow the path of Bush 41: tough diplomacy backed by the threat of military action, as in the first gulf war? Would it be to ignore the rationale put forward by Colin Powell in the debate on the second gulf war? Would it be to vote exactly the same way Sen. Clinton did on war-related issues since he became a U.S. senator, which he has? Or is it simply to criticize from the sidelines with the benefit of never having had to face tough decisions with real consequences?

The next president will be presented with two difficult wars, U.S. moral authority at low ebb, and unprecedented complexity of our relations with the rest of the world. Obama has no record whatsoever, only his utter absence from his committee responsibility. His claim to be the one true heir to George H.W. Bush is a misguided illusion and no substitute for offering more about what foreign policies he would actually follow.

Edited to 3-4 paragraphs to conform to DU's policy for fair use of copyrighted material. Link to the original still needs to be provided.

Lithos
DU Moderator

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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. First, he's a HillFAN. Second, Hilly voted for the war. How about that Joe??
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. And?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Wilson has explained that. She voted, in his view, for inspections. Hans Blix supported the IWR
for that very reason.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. If that were true, which it isn't, how would you explain her lying to the Senate?
She told the Senate before she voted that it was a difficult decision, and that she was aware it was a vote that could lead to war.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I am telling you what Wilson has written since his opinion was brought up
As to your question perhaps she thought it was the lesser of two evils? Kerry and many other said the same thing about inspections. Without the IWR there would have been no inspections, as Hans Blix noted.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #21
100. Then why did she not speak up when Bush started speaking
of imminent war in January 2003. The inspectors were still working, finding nothing, even as they went where they wanted to - including the Presidential palaces. Saddam was destroying missiles. Koffi Annan said there still outstanding diplomatic efforts that Bush was ignoring.

It was a time when everyone needed to speak out - when there were millions of people around the world protesting. Hillary and Bill Clinton had the biggest Democratic voices and they were not out there demanding that Bush slow down and not go to war. Especially if she voted for that reason - when it was clear that she was deceived on what he would do, wouldn't that give her a compelling reason to speak out?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. He's a Hillfan because he's smart and sees through Obama's arrogance
and ignorance on foreign policy.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. Exactly right..
whatsmore he is unafraid to speak out about it even to the arrogant Obama.

What would happen if Joe Wilson debated Obama on his Foreign Policy experience?

What would the empty suit use as an excuse for a no show with Joe?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. I'd pay thousands to watch Wilson obliterate Obama in a debate.
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 11:59 PM by barb162
Wilson could do it with his eyes closed, hands tied behind his back and tied to a chair. Obama would do his usual slow strutting around the stage and still make a fool out of himself like he usually does.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. I's a hell of a thought isn't it?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. It would be the funniest thing I ever saw. Wilson would put Obama down 10,000 notches
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #56
66. How about letting Clinton take on Obama?
...after all, they are the candidates...


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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #66
70. In a second. She'd beat him hands down too.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Hopefully, we'll get a chance to see how it works out.
Neither candidate seems to be able to agree on debate dates so far. I'd like to see at least one more match-up before the end of June.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. Obama will back out every chance he gets..He's a coward through and through..
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #70
101. There have been over 20 debates - he's still standing and ahead
How do you figure that?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #66
84. I'd like to see Obama have to answer questions first, instead of

playing off Hillary Clinton's answers every time.

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #42
82. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

His arrogance, his egotistical belief that he knows more about foreign policy than HRC or McCain is unreal. He thinks having lived in Indonesia as a child under the age of 10 and visited Pakistan in college equate to knowledge of foreign policy.

He omits the fact that he went to Kenya in 2006 and spoke against the government at campaign rallies for his cousin Raila Odinga, who just happened to be running against the president whose policies Obama was speaking so strongly against. He probably doesn't mention that because his cousin Raila Odinga is a Marxist and a Muslim, who attempted a coup after losing the election. The death toll is over 700 now.

Senator Obama's trip to Kenya was at the expense of U.S. taxpayers and he was called on the carpet by the U.S. State Department for meddling in the politics of another nation. I'd guess that's why he doesn't mention it.


Stories about his cousin Odinga vary. Some say he is an actual first cousin, others say a member of the same clan within the Luo tribe as Obama's father, others say they're only related by being part of the Luo tribe.

Dick Morris, of all people, directed Odinga's campaign and Libya's Qadafi funded it. The same Qadafi that Obama's mentor/pastor Jeremiah Wright and Louis Farrakhan went to Libya to meet with.

The GOP will have a field day with all this if the Dems are fools enough to nominate this rookie senator with so many interesting low friends in high places.
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Eric Condon Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #82
89. "He probably doesn't mention that because his cousin Raila Odinga is a Marxist and a Muslim..."
Oh no! A MUSLIM? What could be worse? :sarcasm:

Nice try there with the race-baiting.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
79. BO has admitted he doesn't know if he would have voted yes or no on IWR,

and since he wasn't in the Senate then, he didn't have to choose.

Of course, BO could have voted "Present" as he often did in the Illinois senate when he didn't want to take a stand or didn't know what was going on.

Kerry and Kennedy voted yes on IWR so why were Obama fans so happy to have their endorsement?

It's only wrong to have voted for IWR if you're a woman?

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #79
91. speaking of people who know jackshit
Kennedy didn't vote for the IWR, genius. And I was strongly opposed
to Kerry in 2004 because he did. There is no excuse for any of them
who voted for it.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
85. Her first name is Hillary. Not Hill, not Hilly. Calling her those

names is an attempt to diminish her as a human being, a tactic often used against women, and a favorite of the right wing. It has no place here.

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Eric Condon Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. Uh oh - I guess Hillary HERSELF is a misogynist!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Just got this letter by fax.. Oh, so True..
Joe Wilson is a superior authority, as is his wife, on Foreign affairs..

Obama gets low marks for his ridiculous statements pandering to Republicans.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Bullshit. You got it off Taylor Marsh's website.
I'm calling you on it.
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DarienComp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. We're supposed to believe that Tellurian copied this word for word off of fax paper?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I scanned it into my word processor..
Oh, sorry, those skills elude you..

Google microsoft "word"..a new invention since 2000
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DarienComp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. skills?
i'm pretty sure you can train a lab monkey to feed a sheet of paper into a scanner. Regardless, I'll concede that I didn't consider that possibility. You win.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
44. Is that an unacceptable site per Skinner or something?
If not, who cares....JOE WILSON IS GREAT!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. He sure is.. He put his life at risk to get the Truth out there..
and his wife deserves the medal of honor for fighting the establishment!

Thanks to both of you, if you're reading here.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. You're right.
Both are very brave people and BTW, Joe's got more smarts in his little finger than Obama's got in his whole head. Obama's about bravado and arrogance, Wilson's about guts and smarts.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #57
92. Don't be absurd. it just looks pathetic
Clearly both Obama and Wilson are very bright people. And do try to learn the difference between opinion and fact.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #50
83. They do deserve our thanks, and they were heroes here

but anyone who doesn't fall down and worship Obama is now kicked to the curb and stomped.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Taxmyth Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. The man knows what he's talking about
Thanks T for posting some reality here.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wilson as reported by Taylor Marsh.
Yeah, we get it. And, by the way, this is a dupe.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Wilson has more credibility on Iraq than any poster, and yes, more than Mr. two speeches
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. No. An Opinion piece written by Wilson posted on Taylor
Marsh's website. His words, not hers. If you disagree with
what he said, refute it. Why attack where it was posted or mislead
who actually wrote it instead of rebutting in a reasonable manner.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Your not changing any minds with your Taylor Trash, Telly
Go back to your infected virus site.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Can you say, Madam President?
I expect not! Practice it in the mirror.

:rofl:
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
48. How do you know? Lots of people respect Joe Wilson.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. What a bunch of Georgetown Cocktail Party drivel.
By Joe Wilson, a certifiable establishmentarian.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Joe Wilson is an All American Hero.. He called Bush out for Lying about the War..
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 10:09 PM by Tellurian
Can you publish even one of Obama's accomplishments... besides his 2 kids, that is?
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. The word "hero" does not apply to CIA thugs.
If you think covert operatives who serve ONLY the interests of Wall Street and the "defense" industry are heroic, then go live in some fascist country where you will be more comfortable.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Joe Wilson is not CiA, never was..and you are a RW operative!
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
87. So Obama will do away with the CIA, Wall Street, and the defense industry?

If you think so, your naivete is amazing.

Let us know if you find a country with no intelligence agency, financial center, or defense industry.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
45. He certainly is; he put himself on the line calling out the Bushies.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Wilson is the establishment? He put his neck on the line to stop the war and paid a heavy price...
And what is Tom Daschle? Daschle wants "change" in Washington?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Daschle is a washed up unemployed politician spending more time wih his family.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you for posting this. n/t
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You're welcome, murielm99.. It's about time another Democrat has some say around here..
besides the BS propaganda that gets posted around here.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. K & R
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Obama got Iraq right. Like Lind who's been in the military reform movement since the 80's
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 10:15 PM by PerfectSage
http://www.counterpunch.org/lind03082003.html

CounterPunch March 8, 2003

4th Generation Warfare and the Dangers of Being the Only Superpower
A Warning from Clausewitz
By WILLIAM S. LIND

An American war on Iraq now seems certain. Even if Saddam Hussein agrees to step down and go into exile, it is not clear that Washington would forgo the occupation of Iraq and the installation of an American military government. Wilsonianism is in full flower, in what is likely to prove a false spring.

As we watch events unfold, it may be useful to keep two points in mind. First, the center of gravity of this war -- the place or places where a decision is likely to occur -- are not in Iraq. As is also true of the war in Afghanistan, the centers of gravity of a war with Iraq are in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Of these three, Pakistan is the most important.

Strategically, Iraq is not a key to very much. One might argue that as Iraq goes, so goes Syria, but that is not saying a lot. Iraq is not a key to Iran; on the contrary, their rivalry goes back centuries. All Iraq means to Turkey is an increased threat of an independent Kurdish state and maybe a chance to grab Iraq's northern oil fields. The notion that an American-conquered Iraq can blossom into a Swiss-style democracy that will remake the Middle East comes from Cloud Coockoo Land. If you want to see what democracy in that region would really mean for American interests, look at the Turkish parliament's vote this weekend against allowing U.S. forces to invade Iraq from Turkey.



Whereas Hilliary and McCain haven't got a clue. :rofl: Neither do you.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. So, why does Obama say he wants to continue Bush's current Iraq policy?
hm?
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PerfectSage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. I disagree. I'm not buyin' your bullshit. Try Harder.
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 10:45 PM by PerfectSage
"So, why does Obama say he wants to continue Bush's current Iraq policy?"
:rofl: What is Bush's current Iraq strategy? Stay the course = let the next sucker deal Iraq after I'm gone. And pin the blame for the surge's failure on Iran.

You suck shit in the iq department. Trrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy HHHHHHHHHHHaaaarder.

So why does Hilliary centralize all decision making to herself and a handful of top aides?

Sounds like Bush's management policy?

I got it right in 2002. Lind got it right in 2002. Obama got it right in 2002. Hillary voted for the IWR in 2002, so she could run for president as a foreign policy hawk. Cuz, she thought it would help her future presidential run. She got it wrong. :rofl:
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. Sounds like an argument for McCain more tha Hillary, frankly.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. At this stage of the game, they all are. n/t
n/t
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. Obama's foreign policy is visionary and I am pleased you disagree.
It makes sweeping opponents who haven't a moral leg to stand on into a neat pile that much easier. Done and done.

Thanks. :hi:
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
35. Obama is the nominee -- Kiss the ring. n/t
n/t
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GrandmaJones7 Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Anyone who thinks Obama is qualified (or has meaningful experience) is delusional NTXT
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Well, since he's the nominee, you have a choice: Obama or McSame. n/t
n/t
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. The nominee of what? President of DU?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. LOL!
:thumbsup:
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #38
67. Damn - you beat me to it.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #38
95. Ho ho! That's it! PRESIDENT OF DU. HA HA HA HA HA
I will use that for here and after.
I love it.

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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
40.  HAHAHAHAHA: claims "he possesses intuitively superior judgment"
Wilson totally nails Obama's ridiculous and arrogant claims.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Where was his intuition when he entered into an agreement with Rezko?
Guess his intuition was on vacation when he accepted tainted campaign money from Rezko..
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Where was his intuition and JUDGMENT when he did his boneheaded house deal.
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 11:12 PM by barb162
Hahahahah
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
94. it's so interesting to see clintonians bring up Rezcp
as if Rich, Hsu, Paul, Gupta, Giustra etc, were names they've never
heard.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
96. Just look at his voting record. Very scary indeed.
I know I know... well at least he didn't vote
for the IWR... He has stated before that he
does not know how he would have voted had he
been a senator at the time.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
41. K&R great post
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. Heavy stuff. Thanks for posting this. K&R!
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
51. "Obama's understanding of foreign policy is extraordinarily limited."
How true, Mr. Wilson, how true.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
52. "Obama has no record whatsoever" in foreign policy
"Obama has no record whatsoever, only his utter absence from his committee responsibility"


Wow, Wilson does a masterful job here calling out Obama.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. This is precious... Obama the "unvisionary" in S.F...talking about his Foreign Policy experience..
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. He's amazingly arrogant for a person with so little experience
Like foreign policy, ZERO experience. Z-E-R-O, except for putting on a native dress in Africa and showing how he could get an AIDS test. Oh everyone cheer, Barack showed he could get an AIDS test. Whoa, how brave, how enlightened. Let's make him President. :sarcasm:

I swear, he'd be Bush the Third. What's he smoking? Maybe he's back on the crack?
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. Maybe you'd like it better if he dodged some foreign sniper fire?
...or supported a free trade agreement and then said he didn't?

What foreign policy experience does Clinton have?


I'll agree that he's no experienced foreign diplomat, but I'm quite happy with his ideas and proposals. Clinton doesn't have any more experience than he does, and what she does "have" is, at least in part, a fabrication.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. Obama has nothing in his history as a claim to fame..
except his admission of giving up drugs. (so he says)

whoopeedo!
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. And Clinton's? Married to an ex-President?
Hell, if we're setting the bar that low, "Pickles 2008!"

What's HRC's "claim to fame"?

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #65
75. Thanks for asking:
Are you really that devoid of reality? Are you really that clueless?

To say the very least, it is insulting that even insinuate that Hillary Clinton would be nowhere without Bill Clinton or from her experience as First Lady.

The facts just don't square with that.

- Did she get her job at the Children's Defense Fund because of her relationship with Bill Clinton? No!

- Was she asked to serve on the impeachment committee during the impeachment of Richard Nixon, because of her relationship with Bill Clinton? No!

The point being that Hillary Clinton is obviously a highly intelligent, well accomplished, and scary bright woman in her own right.

It's pretty pathetic that the anti-Hillary contigent here on DU, has been reduced to advancing this ridiculous theory that she's only where she is today, because of Bill Clinton. It's devoid of any reality or facts whatsoever.

In the interests of accomodation, I will link them:

http://clinton.senate.gov/senate/legislation/

And..a few highlights:

A brief summary of Senator Clinton's beginnings and accomplishments

As Senator, Hillary has been a Champion for the State of NY,

"Hillary Rodham Clinton was elected United States Senator from New York on November 7, 2000, and she was overwhelmingly re-elected to a second term on Nov. 7, 2006. She is the only First Lady ever elected to the United States Senate. Now midway through her six-year term, Senator Clinton has proven to be a strong advocate for New York, working in a bipartisan way to pass legislation, secure millions in appropriations and draw attention to issues that matter to people throughout New York State. Senator Clinton serves on the Senate Committees for Environment and Public Works; Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; and is the first New York Senator to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee.


During the 108th Congress, Senator Clinton made homeland security, economic security, and national security her top priorities.

"After the terrorist attacks of 2001, Senator Clinton worked hard to secure $21.4 billion in funding to assist clean up and recovery, to provide health tracking for first responders and volunteers at Ground Zero and to create grants for redevelopment. This past year she has remained vigilant - issuing two comprehensive studies that examined the disbursement of federal homeland security funds to local communities and first responders. Senator Clinton is committed to making certain that funds are delivered and services provided by the most direct and efficient means possible."

"As part of a continuing effort to work on upstate New York economic development,

...Senator Clinton led a bipartisan effort to bring next-generation broadband access to rural communities;

...Co-sponsored the 21st Century Nanotechnology Research and Development Act;

...Included language in the Energy Bill to provide tax exempt bonding authority for environmentally conscious construction projects, like the mall project in Syracuse; and introduced an amendment to create jobs by repairing, renovating , and modernizing our schools.

...To help displaced workers, Senator Clinton won an extension of Unemployment Insurance that was passed on the first day of the 108th Congress.

...She has called for an additional extension to help displaced New York workers weather the weak job market.

...Senator Clinton has continued to speak out against the tax cuts for wealthiest Americans, which has led to the elimination of a federal budget surplus and a return to irresponsible deficit spending."


"Excerpts from a fairly good article on Hillary's rise...she has, in a very short time, become a very successful Senator. Ask the firefighters in New York City, now being her strongest supporters...ask what they think of her leadership.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200611/green-hillary

"The day after September 11, she surveyed the devastation at Ground Zero with New York’s other senator, Charles Schumer. Realizing the need for federal help, she called Byrd first thing the next morning. “We’re in real trouble, and it’s going to take a lot to put the city back together. Can you help?” This time Byrd agreed at once: “Count me as the third senator from New York.” With his assistance on the Appropriations Committee, New York secured $20 billion in recovery funds."




"The other major accomplishment involved the Pentagon’s list of recommended military-base closuresannounced last May, which included the Niagara Falls Air Reserve Station, one of the largest employers in a depressed area of the state. From her seat on the Armed Services Committee, Clinton played a prominent role in fighting the decision of the Base Realignment and Closure Commission (BRAC) West Virginia’s Air National Guard base had also been targeted for closure. Late one Friday night while preparing an appeal, a Byrd staffer came across an obscure 1917 statute denying the federal government the authority to close a National Guard base without authorization from the state’s governor—which, if he valued his job, would never be forthcoming. Byrd’s staff tipped off Clinton’s, since New York’s appeal hearing came sooner. Through her work on Armed Services, Clinton had developed close relationships with several Air Force sources at the Pentagon, and got hold of a document showing that the savings claimed for closing the Niagara station had been grossly exaggerated. Clinton personally laid out the information to the BRAC chairman, Anthony Principi. In September, word came from the White House that New York had been spared."


- Sen. Clinton's Senate office website

http://clinton.senate.gov/index.cfm

...And if thats not enough for you.. heres a few more facts I suggest you bookmark

She has quite a progressive resume--you are only looking at the distortions

fed to you by those who have reason to distort:

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can ...

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fought unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air

Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands

Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste

Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11

Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:

http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israe ...
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfu ...


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)

Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
Measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

(thanks to)...Perry Logan and evergreen emerald for their submissions..also seasoned blue.
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Symarip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. Oh Tellurian, you forgot the best part of her Senate experience!
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion.

I also greatly respect the differing opinions within this body. The debate they engender will aid our search for a wise, effective policy. Therefore, on no account should dissent be discouraged or disparaged. It is central to our freedom and to our progress, for on more than one occasion, history has proven our great dissenters to be right.

Now, I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people, even his own family members, to maintain his iron grip on power. He used chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians, killing over 20 thousand people. Unfortunately, during the 1980's, while he engaged in such horrific activity, he enjoyed the support of the American government, because he had oil and was seen as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran.

<snip>

Help send 4,000 to die in Iraq?

YES SHE CAN
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. You forgot, Colin Powell, the man who testified at the UN is supporting Obama's
Foreign Policy experience. Powell who demonstrated in a televised meeting in front of the UN holding up a baggie of supposed "YELLOW CAKE" vowing that Hussein did indeed possess weapons of Mass Destruction..and was a serious threat to US Security and it's people needs to be STOPPED!

That LIAR is going to testify once again tomorrow am on Good Morning America...Obama's Foreign Policy experience is right and correct!

So, what else do you want to talk about?
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Symarip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. Oh right. Colin Powell is a coward who is speaking nice about Obama
Meanwhile, a coward, who voted to send 4000 young men and women to death, is running for president... Yeah, you're right. Stupid for me to bring that up.

Hey, at least she's not a liar like Colin Powell... Oh. Sorry. Sore subject.

Have fun banging your pots tomorrow.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. Another nutty post from an uninformed Obama acolyte..
Try reading US history...begin at the beginning.. you can start with the Founding Fathers in 1776 and go forward from there. Your slickster candidate can't hold a candle to any preceding president and is as "unfit" for the office of the presidency more than any other candidate who has campaigned for the presidency in US History.

I'll bet Obama is as uninformed as you are and couldn't even name all the presidents of the United States in or out of their sequential order.!


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/us/politics/11campaign.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #77
98. The very same Powell who attended the torture memo meeting.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #75
102. That's 7 years of experience...
What about the other 28?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #59
69. Hey Hillary at least chairs her subcommittees. That's more than I can say for Obama
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 12:29 AM by barb162
Let's just watch him keep doing that slow arrogant strutting around a stage that he so likes to do. People are getting really sick of his arrogant crap. He really should go back to doing his "boneheaded" house deals, be a real estate attorney back in Chicago. Remember his little comment about bombing Pakistan ...I'm not happy with his "foreign policy" comments, proposals, etc. Change maybe YOU can believe in. I'm not interested in his change; let him learn real estate law.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. A personal question...how old are you?
No hidden attack here, I'm just curious because I see a real age divide between Obama and Clinton supporters. I'm 40, so I'm certainly no young pup, but I tend to side with change...even untested change...over business as usual.

To reply to your post, what specific issues has Obama failed to deal with in his subcommittee assignment?
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. Obama has yet to chair the damn subcomittee in over a year.
He's never chaired it. Why is he even getting paid a salary?!? He should be thrown out for dereliction of duty. You've seen the stories where he tails in on meetings where weeks or months of work has been done and then he stands around at the microphones with the senators who did all the real work. He takes credit for things he never spent five minutes on. Age had nothing to do with this. Ten years ago I would have looked at that arrogant candidate the same way I do now. A guy who is all talk, unbelievably ARROGANT as hell, etc. The guy who approved the neo-con Condi Rice as Sec. of State, ohmygod. What do people see in this guy? Why are people fainting?
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #59
97. Yeah! That's it. Change the subject. Deflect, deflect, deflect. It works.
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 05:18 AM by BigBearJohn
Except that, we're talking about Obama now.
His inexperience will even become even more obvious
and pathetic should he ever become president.
But by that time, it will be far too late. :scared:
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. somebody who knows about a bunch of stuff that I'm not as expert on
Obama: "I would like somebody who knows about a bunch of stuff that I'm not as expert on...."

Since Obama is an expert on nothing other than his self-proclaimed "boneheaded" house deal, that's a pretty tall order. I 'd say he should drop out of the race and HRC will take care of things like foreign policy, domestic policy, etc. And Obama can keep screwing up house deals.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
60. K&R Super great post; Wilson is always great to read.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
62. Oh, but he has vast foreign policy experience.
He lived in Indonesia as a child and he has family in Kenya.

:rofl:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #62
73. Colin Powell, set to endorse Obama's Foreign Policy
Yes, the same Colin Powell that helped get us into the War with Iraq will be on abc Good Morning America tomorrow touting Obama's Foreign Policy.. Why is that? George is that you whispering in Colin's ear, whispering in Obama's ear..

I want a "REAL" democrat for president not a Republican clone posser water bearer like Obama as the next president.

Hillary is the only one we can count on for a straight deal from the White House!

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #62
86. And he went to Pakistan while he was in college.

By his standards, I'm qualified to be president. I've lived in a third-world country and have traveled a lot.

Of course, he and Michelle and the kids also got to make some nice trips to the Caribbean to Tony Rezko's private retreat, traveling on Rezko's private jet. Funny he doesn't think those were worth mentioning.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
68. k/r
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
90. Ever thought of posting your own ideas, Tellurian?
Or are you just a cut and paste machine for the Clinton campaign?

Guess what? We know Joe Wilson supports Hillary, we also know he was an ambassador. We also know he is at odds with at least one of the foreign policy advisors on the Obama campaign - guy with the name Zbigniew Brezinski who probably has more foreign experience in his little finger than Joe Wilson has in his entire body.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #90
99. Oh, great technique. Don't argue with intelligence. Belittle the poster.
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 05:29 AM by BigBearJohn
You can't win with reason, so you try to invalidate the character of the poster.

Nice try. But next time, if you want to win the argument, deal with the issues.
Don't just try to win by intimidation.

On edit, Helen Thomas is also a Hillary supporter.
What's next, you got any bad news to tell us about her too?
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. If Tellurian had any intelligence I am sure you are right.
However I am taking issue with this particular RW poster posting from RW sources without putting any editorial comment. This is a message board but Tellurian has no message, all that happens is the continued mouthing of propaganda. Tellurian submits no arguments and I do not think has any arguments. I have no objection to pro Hillary posts and will go out of my way to congratulate such posters if they do a good job. What is happening is that I am putting at issue the ignorance, bigotry and foolishness of posts such as Tellurian's.

You observe also that I "invalidate the character of the poster", this is difficult to answer as there is no such thing so I will assume you mean "assassinate the character of the poster". If that is your meaning I plead guilty, for character assassination is a perfectly valid way of countering anothers arguments; as witnessed in any political campaign.

Your subsequent argument regarding Helen Thomas; what has this to do with anything? Ms Thomas has made a choice regarding the candidate she wishes to support and puts forward cogent, coherent reasons for that choice. Your comparisson of Tellurian with Ms Thomas is insulting to that fine journalist who, I am certain, has never just cut and pasted anothers words in her life!
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. Ok. That was a well-reasoned response. I may not agree with
everything you said, but I now admire your intelligence.
(Not that my opinion means anything to you, but I did
appreciate your response.)
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. Strangely it does mean something
It means that you have taken the time to read and understand what I have posted even though I say things that you may not agree with.

The Tellurian thing has been going on some time and I am trying to provoke a response because I think that Tellurian might, just, be the sort of person who could open their mind. I know reasoned argument will not work for that will be ignored or misunderstood

There is also the matter that playing with vitriol is fun - if dangerous :blush:
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. Be careful. I might start liking you.
:toast:
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. Cheers
and as a toast I give you the Cornish motto "Onen hag Oll" (one and all)
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
93. Joe Wilson
My hero.

And current Hillary Clinton supporter. Enough said.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-12-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
107. Samantha Power is an expert on the region.
She has covered the area for a long time and been all over the countries. With people like her to draw on, Obama will be fine (and in my mind, can come up with better policy).
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