GET THE HOOK! Get the goddamned Hook!!!

[Raven]

Enough. It is like watching a beloved friend or relative make a blazing fool of themselves and not knowing how to get them to shut up.

My country should not be the marital mud wrestling arena for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

I don't know what his problem is but he should shut up for two reasons:
1. He's killing her
2. He's killing the democratic chances to be elected in 11/08

I see 2 stories on MSNBC tonight (and don't tell me they're biased because this is Bill and Hill in the raw). In one he's pointing his goddamned boney finger at us and telling us how it really happened in Bosnia. Let it go for God's sake...it was almost dead until you breathed new life into it.

The next is her being asked about his speech payments and she looked absolutely manic and she cackled hysterically and could not respond to the question.

Enough. Enough. Enough. Get this couple off the stage because they are killing us.

Bill Clinton has his own agenda and it is not ours. As for Hillary...I have sympathy for her tonight.

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. So how long have you hated the Clintons?

Long before the election, I suspect.

[Raven]

6. Well, I voted for him and I will vote for her if she is the nominee.

But I've never been quite so embarassed about the two of them untill tonight and since my beloved uncle but the lampshade on his head and danced down the street.

[PoliticalAmazon]

8. If you disagree with OP, why don't you state reasons why instead of ad hominum attack? n/t

[kwenu]

35. Probabaly because that would require accurate facts.

[fascisthunter]

23. Clinton Supporters Would Like to Think Those of Us Who Dislike Her

don't dislike her based upon her personality, attitude, policy positions and overall performance during this primary. Because if they did accept those reasons, they would be forced to rebut something they obviously can't. So they devolve into the land of "make believe" because arguing about the obvious reality is just too hard.

See... I can fill in the blanks too.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

24. ...

You said it for me.

:thumbsup:

[pompano]

37. I know it....

She believed a habitual liar and followed him into a war that cost us $trillions, thousands dead, tens of thousands wounded, and an untold number on the other side.

She has blurred the lines between Republicans and Democrats to the point even Holy Joe looks liberal in comparison.

She has lied on the world stage and embarrassed us to tears.

She supported Kyl/Lieberman.

She has run one of the nastiest campaigns this old man has seen in his lifetime.

She stacked her campaign with an organized labor busting scab.

But the ones that point it out or refuse to vote for this type of Washington eliteness that has virtually buried this country in mountains of debt and ruined our credibility on a world stage get labeled sexist? Sounds like desperation to me?

[LittleClarkie]

29. Why do you hate America?

I always hated it when Republicans asked that whenever Bush was criticized.

As if the motivation was just plain hate without any thought or reason.

It appears the OP has plenty of reasons, and they articulated them pretty well.

And they did say that watching Bill now is like watching someone you liked make an ass of themselves. Didn't sound like blind hate to me. They did refer to Bill as beloved, after all. Is there some sort of beloved hate I don't know about?

[blm]

47. I wish I had known more to hate them sooner when Bill was running in 92 as Jackson Stephens

groomed him to do to PROTECT Poppy Bush who expected to be impeached after Dec 1992 release of BCCI report.

IIf I had known he would spend the 90s protecting BushInc and undermining the Dem party, I would have worked even harder for Harkin or Tsongas during the primary.

Bill fooled me for years into believing he was a Democrat and that HE was the victim of the RW when Bushies REALLY needed to get into Rose Law Firm to scrub its biggest client's files for him and Poppy - all Jackson Stephens and GHWBush's years of dirty dealings in BCCI matters and w/Chinese industrialists and financiers for WalMart - deals that ended up destroying many US manufacturers - just as the Global Fascist Agenda desired.

[roguevalley]

57. since they became asses and since I lost a relationship with two

brothers over this and the LAST CONVERSATION my brother had with my mom before SHE DIED was arguing over the Clintons, I think i EARNED the right to think they are two of the stupidest dumbasses on the national stage right now. Fuck them both. All those years of bitterly defending them has COME TO THIS!?!?!?!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. Well said.

I'm so sorry about your family. :hug:

And I'm so disheartened to see two people that I deeply admired for many years transform before my eyes to resemble more and more what their fiercest critics accused them of being. :cry:

[MethuenProgressive]

2. OP: "she looked absolutely manic and she cackled hysterically"

OK, you hate her. We get it. Now post something positive about your candiate, if you have one.

[Raven]

11. Nope, I don't hate her at all. I may be beginning to hate him because

he is screwing her over. I have lots of positives about "my candidate" but this was not the point of the post. How about you tell me what good has come out of these two recent events?

[Why Syzygy]

25. "cackle" is a quote from MSNBC who showed the clip.

THEY are saying she cackled. I consider it more along the lines of snorting laughter.

[Raven]

28. I did not see that. n/t

[Lucky 13]

40. I don't think she looked manic. And I don't think it was a cackle.

No, manic is not the word. She looks like someone who was just caught red-handed and they KNOW it. And they panic. They just BLUBBER.

And no, I don't think it was a cackle. It was more the crazy nervous laughter of an exposed sociopath.


Now, the real question is can any Hillary supporter actually respond to the clip? What do you think about it? Wouldn't you describe the moment as, at the least, ODD?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

41. You must be kidding?

You have what some would call gall. I think I would faint if I ever saw anything you posted that had a hint of a positive smell to it.

Just an observation....

[mrreowwr_kittty]

61. We get that you hate Obama too. Why don't you take your own advice? nt

[babylonsister]

3. I saw those two clips; she did cackle, and she couldn't come up

with a valid answer. When Hill laughs that laugh, she sounds very close to the edge. And big dawg, what can I say? He seems like he's trying to sabotage her campaign, but either way, it does make the Dems look bad.

[ginnyinWI]

15. it was a totally inappropriate time to laugh.

It was a serious question and deserved a serious answer. The kindest way to explain it is that she was laughing at the media for asking it. But that doesn't make sense, either.

And Bill--what can be said about Big Dawg. He's slipped his chain again, I guess.

[City Lights]

4. Time for an intervention!

Paging Vernon Jordan, paging Vernon Jordan. Another name I've seen mentioned is Rahm Emanuel.

I thought Hillary looked exhausted in that presser.

[grantcart]

10. Sen Schumer you are needed on line 49 Sen Schumer line 49

[Tellurian]

5. Thumb through the yellow pages for FREE Counseling

for what ails you...

This is just the tip of the iceberg. It's going to get dirtier and nastier before it's over. And it won't be over until Hillary is the Dem Nominee!

Cold compresses may do the trick temporarily until you can get a script for medication or counseling.

[cali]

12. you need to thumb those

pages yourself. Hillary is very unlikely to be the nom.

[Why Syzygy]

26. HilLIARy is the one who needs cold compresses. Suggest it. nt

[jgraz]

43. Perhaps you could just tell us the shrink you're seeing

We want to make sure to AVOID them.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

7. Chuck has your hook right here~ as expected, no Clinton coat tails in sight.

[stellanoir]

9. They have been a debt riddled embarrassment for several months.

Leadership. . .I think not.

Experience. . only when it comes to bad decisions.

She has chosen the worst advisors and been entirely duplicitous.

Ughhh

[The_Casual_Observer]

13. msnbc is hardly the place to go for objective journalism about anything.

[Raven]

17. I agree, but that's why I noted that these were actual film clips. n/t

[eek MD]

27. and where should we go?

Fox News? :P

[The_Casual_Observer]

30. The McClatchy newspapers are probably the only ones I would trust anymore.

[redqueen]

14. I don't need to use any loaded words for her laughter...

I'll just call it "nervous". It wasn't good. Neither was her stammering and hemming and hawwing about how she couldn't answer.

That did not look good at all.



As for Bill... just ugh.

[Raven]

16. Sorry. I did not mean to use loaded words. That way what they

seemed like to me when I heard them. Now I realize that some folks would think them loaded and I'm sorry.

[redqueen]

18. Aw that is very kind of you...

I know you didn't mean it that way... but that is how people might see it... I know I would hesitate to use them for fear of that happening, anyway.

:hi:

[goldcanyonaz]

19. bla bla bla bla I hate Obama bla bla bla bla

[Raven]

21. Let's not do the "bla, bla, bla" here. That's not what I intended by

this post. Serious discussion of this would be nice and, for me, I'm really pissed at him...what in the hell does he think he's doing???

[tigervalentine]

53. You're such a nice person.

Can't imagine what DU would ever do without you. You make everything such a pleasure.

(Did I mention that I'm sarcastic?)

[TexasObserver]

20. I'm beginning to think Bill doesn't really want Hillary to win.

His ego is so huge, you know he doesn't like the idea of going from Big Dog to Lap Dog. He'll be neutered as First Laddie. He won't be the former president, he'll be the president's spouse. I'm not sure that big ego can take that.

I don't think he has anything to worry about, because Obama has the nomination won, but Big Dog doesn't want to be a gelding after being a stallion all these years.

[Raven]

22. I expressed that very thought in another thread. I just wonder if

this is too much for him. There really is no reason for a brilliant politican to bring back an issue that has been dead or at least dying. I don't get it and on one so far has explained it to me.

[TexasObserver]

32. He can't change who he is. I think the comment by Chelsea burned him.

[Lucky 13]

42. What are you referring to?

I must have missed it. What did she say and when?

I still love Chelsea.

Thanks.

[mitchum]

58. He doesn't want either his wife OR Obama to win...

he doesn't want his wife to win for the reasons you have stated.
He doesn't want Obama to win because the Obama presidency will dwarf his own in terms of historical importance.
Bill Clinton is a narcissist. And it is ALWAYS about him.

[bigtree]

31. they're fine

the complaints about them are hysterical

[Raven]

33. You think so? Why is any of this good for them? Why? n/t

[bigtree]

36. like I said

hysterical

[Lucky 13]

44. Bigtree, I really like you. I read a lot of your posts and have found you to be...

one of the nicest, fairest people on this board. And, despite supporting Hillary, you at least acknowledge people on the other side aren't all scum. I appreciate it.

I haven't seen one reasonable defense from a Hillary supporter yet. I understand many may be reluctant to post because you feel ganged up on. But I can at least promise not to do that. I just want your take on it. No judgement. The only thing I will write in return is "thank you". And I will sincerely mean it.

Here is what I know:

Penn, Wolfson, and Bill are all working for the Columbians and making a fortune. Not just all in the past... BUT CURRENTLY.

Her husband has made $800,000 from it. Goes into their joint account. His money IS her money. His dealing are her dealings. Unless you think Bill kept Hillary completely in the dark about this or something?

The three top people on her campaign are working behind the scenes on this deal. Not just any campaign people, but her closest advisors and her husband.

How can you explain this? How is this NOT a conflict of interest?

Even IF it's not... Even if Hillary is as saintly as claimed... Don't you think politicians, especially ones that want to be President of the United State should, for the greater good, deliberately avoid even the APPEARANCE of conflict of interest? Isn't it their responsibility to do so?

And what of her moment this morning at the press conference. At BEST it could be described as odd. She looked like she freaked out. She had to know she'd get a question on this. Why wasn't she prepared?

Lastly, could you understand how maybe the other side might be reasonable people who just find that a little hard to swallow - not Hillary hating Obamabots determined to harm the Clintons?


Thanks. I really do just want to understand where you're coming from... so... yeah...

[bigtree]

48. For me to be moved by all of this

I'd have to believe that the other candidate doesn't have his own folks working to elect him who don't have their own conflicts of interest on something or the other. I don't.

Presidents have advocated and advanced policy which isn't in their interest before, and, I accept that Hillary Clinton's position on the trade agreement is sincere. But, I don't think that positioning against this trade measure would preclude consideration of ALL trade and any 'fair' agreements which the U.S. might pursue with Columbia..

And, I don't think that anyone is talking about some embargo on trade with Columbia, so I don't know why it's so wrong to make money from promoting trade with Columbia, as Bill Clinton evidently did. The problem is supposed to be with the nature of this agreement he's supported. The issue is what his wife intends to do with the deal if she's elected. She's been clear on this.


from her campaign:

Sen. Clinton's spokesperson, Jay Carson, notes that Bill Clinton has supported the Colombia trade deal since 2000, but that his wife has been consistent in her opposition.

"Senator Clinton is the candidate for president and she is a clear and firm opponent of the Colombian free trade agreement," he said. "Like other married couples who disagree on issues from time to time, she disagrees with her husband on this issue. President Clinton has been public about his support for Columbia's request for U.S. trade preferences since 2000."

[Lucky 13]

50. Thank you.

Enjoyed hearing your thoughts.

[DevonRex]

34. Now that I realize what the Clintons really are I'm actually almost

enjoying watching them roll around in the mud. Note that I said ALMOST. Part of me is very sad to see 2 such gifted people tarnish their reputations so thoroughly. Part of me is still sad for what could have been. Another part is pissed that they call themselves democrats and act like that.

[Mme. Defarge]

39. Did TV talk shows and reality shows

pave the way for this utter shamelessness? Their fall from grace is truly shocking, but are we all so saturated with sensationalism that we remain simply un-phased by what we are witnessing?

[DevonRex]

46. Could be. We're certainly bombarded

with people behaving badly these days. And cable news seems to thrive on garbage, too. I wonder if the Clintons thought that since people still liked Bill after Monica-gate, that they could campaign as smarmily (lol I made up a word) as they wanted to and nobody would think badly of them. Guess they thought wrong.

[melody]

38. Amen n/t

[jgraz]

45. Yes, please.

[kdpeters]

49. We are watching the 2008 election. theft.already in progress

We just won't know what it is we're witnessing until the investigative report is published long after the illusion of an election...that is, if ever.

[bridgit]

51. OK already with 'the hook'!!

[MonkeyFunk]

52. eh

never mind.

[tigervalentine]

54. Oh, good.

Monkey Funk is here.

We can all go home now.

[MonkeyFunk]

55. Who the fuck are you?

[quantass]

56. k+r

[mitchum]

59. The Clintons: From Hope to Soap