"Clinging to their guns and their religion," "a typical white woman."

[ginchinchili]

If elected president, Obama promises to be at least as divisive as Bush, only Bush cultivated a divide that already existed. Obama seems bent on opening up destructive new chasms here in America, or at least peel off scabs from the healing wounds from our past. Can't we find someone whose true objective is to serve America first without dividing us?

And just what is a typical white woman, words Obama used to describe his grandmother? Certainly not my grandmother, nor would I ever think of describing her in such a dismissive, limiting way. What do you suppose the reaction would be had Bill Clinton used the words, "typical black woman?" I know, I know, that's different, because Barack Obama deserves a double standard.

So here we go again, a (potential) president who: 1)lacks adequate experience; 2)will endlessly practice a double standard; 3)thinks he's superior to the rest of us; 4)will continue to divide the country for political/personal gain. This guy is the last thing our country needs right now.

[anonymous171]

1. Senator Rodham has less experience than he.

Or will her husband, Bill, take over until she can handle the job on her own?

[ginchinchili]

24. She has more experience than Obama, unless you count...

when he was a child living overseas as foreign policy experience, as he does. And if you think Hillary needs Bill to run things until "she can handle the job on her own," then who's going to run things while Obama is figuring things out, because he certainly isn't better prepared than Hillary, and I'm not a big supporter of Hillary's. And, no, I'm not a supporter of McCain's either. I'm just outraged that the Democrats have done this to themselves and our country. "This" being the choosing of our 2 weakest offerings. I could stomach Hillary, but Obama is a disaster waiting to happen.

There are a lot of people who feel as I do and I hope people like you don't cause them to refrain from speaking out the way Bush's supporters did toward his critics just after 9/11. There are a lot of us out here who really do think objectively and independently, i.e., we're not just towing the Party line or trying to claim that a candidate is the next messiah. And the criticisms I level at a Republican don't disappear when a Democrat engages in the same corrupt, moronic behavior. It applies equally, without double standards.

[anonymous171]

32. I'm talking about legislative experience. You know, RELEVANT experience?

[ginchinchili]

38. All experience can be relevant.

It depends on the experience and what one takes away from that experience. I certainly don't give Hillary credit for all of her husband's experience, but at the same time I don't dismiss her experience as first lady. Lord knows she took enough flack for being such an involved first lady, I think she deserves some credit in return.

[Hepburn]

75. Yes....her experience coming under fire in Bosnia is...

...certainly a highlight on her resume! :rofl:

[Texas Hill Country]

47. the President is NOT a Legislator... that is why VERY few legislators get elected. this cycle is

a total abberation. It is an executive position. And it mainly focuses on international relations. domestic issues are secondary. the president is basically a powerful stump speaker when it comes to legislative issues, and that is about it.

They are either VPs or Governors usually...

Bush - VP
Bush - Governor
Clinton - Governor
Reagan - Governor
Carter - Governor
Nixon - VP


see a trend?

[PBS Poll-435]

56. Senator Rodham?

Oh tell me NJ didn't go and do that.

Hugh Rodham. NJ will put elect ANY Democrat.

:P

[Eurobabe]

2. C'ya!

[Unsane]

3. thanks, swiftboater

[ginchinchili]

6. I see; anyone criticizing Obama is a swiftboater.

Or a racist; I've had that charge slung at me as well. Sorry, but I haven't sipped the Koolaid, nor do I intend to.

[Unsane]

7. Criticizing him on this? yep

[ginchinchili]

28. On anything.

He's getting a lot a flack for this bigoted comment, and it doesn't make us all swiftboaters. But you can stick your head in the sand and pretend all is fine. I'm sure some of Bush's supporters will make room for you.

[Butch350]

79. Well...

6. I see; anyone criticizing Obama is a swiftboater.
Or a racist; I've had that charge slung at me as well. Sorry, but I haven't sipped the Koolaid, nor do I intend to.
ginchinchili


Well...I guess that's the only option you seem to have left. ;) If the shoe fits wear it (right in that special place)

[jillan]

27. It's okay to criticize Hillary but not Obama?

Maybe you should try a flavor of kool-aid that's not so bitter.

[OzarkDem]

62. Ok to ridicule uninsured rural people

Obama has very strange rules about who he likes and doesn't.

[Butch350]

80. Oh Pleeeze Hun...

Don't we all - don't you? DUH AWARD nominee.

[splat]

58. Swiftboating is about inflating military heroism -- is that what you meant?

[Unsane]

61. wrong

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. Wah wah fucking wah wah wah...

Oh, were you saying something? Sorry, couldn't hear it over your piteous whining.

[thereismore]

5. Get off my face. nt

[ginchinchili]

30. Then get it out from under my ass.

[leftofcool]

8. Obama=Bad for the Country

[Unsane]

9. thanks, rush

[Butch350]

81. Poor Baby

You see HRC slipping away don't you.

[RememberWellstone]

10. Pretty much what I've been saying for months now

They don't listen...they don't understand, they do not care, as long as they get their cute little hope and changer.

[Avalux]

20. Please see post #11.

Until you've lived my life, keep your judgements to yourself.

[RememberWellstone]

34. You cling to guns, religion, antipathy and xenophobia?

Quite a list you and Obama have going there. One thing, how would Obama know this? People that live in PA told they were bitter and clinging to these objects? For myself, I don't care..but for big mouthbama, he keeps sticking his whole foot into it. You don't go assume things that are not true or you have no clue if they are.

[Avalux]

45. Obama actually listens to people; you should give it a try.

Oh wait - I guess you assume, as Hillary does, that the people of PA are optimistic and happy.

[ginchinchili]

48. I assume some are and some aren't...do you assume differently?

[Avalux]

51. I don't make assumptions.

I talk to those I know who live there, who have watched the town shrivel because the jobs are gone and watched as their children have moved away.

What I write here is based on my personal experiences and anecdotes from those who live there. Far more people are bitter and angry than optimistic about the future.

[Butch350]

83. And Since

Hillary has no talking points worth listening to - so she turns to the whinning and bashing tactics the only weapons she has left.
- when she's not drinking canadian booze and beer and being a lush.

[leftofcool]

22. They will never get him as president

[OzarkDem]

33. Agree

and their only focus is on winning the primary, not the GE. I suppose they think Obama's rhetorical skills and slick salesmanship will help them win back all the voters they alienated in the primary race.

[Butch350]

82. Do worry

You HRC supporters will get over it.

[Avalux]

11. Obviously, you can't wrap your head around a complex issue; choose to take words out of context.

Would you like to have a conversation about what's it's like to live in a small town in central PA these days? Would you like to talk about the bitterness, sadness and anger my parents feel watching the town they've lived all their lives in go slowly down the gutter as the young people move away? Would you like to talk about the feelings I have when I go back to visit and see what's happening to my hometown?

Most people don't want to talk about a REAL issue like this. Obama's words ring true and certainly don't offend my parents. They agree with him and are glad someone is talking about what's been forgotten for the past 20 years.

[ginchinchili]

35. Uh...we're not talking about his claim that there are bitter people out there...

Mr. Rove, so don't try to change the subject. Nice try, though. It seems to be working for your candidate.

[OzarkDem]

36. No one doubts small town people are upset

and everyone wants to turn the situation around for them.

But how does insulting them help that situation? How does labeling them as gun toting, racist, religious nuts make them feel good?

No, what you have is a cynical politician taking their plight and insulting them for political advantage. Though how he sees it as an advantage, I can't understand.

[Avalux]

42. It's not an insult is my point.

People who live where I grew up don't see it as an insult; I don't see it as an insult. We are glad someone is talking about it.

Obama is not labeling my family and friends with those words, you are.

[ginchinchili]

46. And you've talked to them all, I suppose?

I would certainly feel that it's demeaning and elitist, coming from another rich, privileged, Harvard-educated politician. Hey, but that's just me, but I'm sure I'm not alone. I used to live in rural Pennsylvania myself.

[VolcanoJen]

12. Get out the way.

Or toughen up. But we can't win in November with this kind of weak-kneed addiction to victimhood.

[ginchinchili]

39. I don't get out of the way.

Get used to it.

[VolcanoJen]

59. OK, then toughen up.

"Outrage Politics" are not just boring... they're losing.

[NightOwwl]

13. Let us know...

when you are ready to take your head out of the sand.

[LaurenG]

14. Oy - what a spun bunch of Malarkey

I do realize that were your preferred candidate, Senator Obama, this would be about the Bosnia affair or Monsanto or NAFTA. All issues which senator Clinton is involved in, yet you would rather change the words of a good person than to look at the evidence. You are in favor of a candidate that will lie straight faced about anything in order to win.


So here we go again, a (potential) president who: 1)lacks adequate experience; 2)will endlessly practice a double standard; 3)thinks she's superior to the rest of us; 4)will continue to divide the country for political/personal gain. This woman is the last thing our country needs right now.


I think it's very telling, very telling indeed.

[Yurovsky]

15. What we really need are the Clintons & more welfare reform!

The next wave of Clinton welfare reform will consist primarily of taking candy away from babies.

Odd how WJC couldn't find it in his heart to allow poor single moms to remain on goverment assistance, yet he allowed a multi-million-dollar tax cheat like Marc Rich to come back to the US, free and clear.

With the Clintons, it's all about the money. If you've got it, and are willing to give it to THEM, the world is your oyster. Otherwise, tough shit.

[Mz Pip]

16. Instead of focusing on

and putting the worst possible spin on snippets of sentences, how about looking at the big picture? You really go over the top in your interpretation of Obama's comments.

Obama will not be as divisive as Bush. Anyone with half a brain knows that. Bush has been the worst president ever and if more time was spent focusing on his heir apparent, Senator McCrazy, we'd all be a lot better off.

[Gore1FL]

17. Gosh and here all along

I thought the Dems lost the rural vote over family value gun issues because the dems abandoned those citizens.

I guess place like WV, MO and other states with big rural areas have been voting Democratic all these years, and I never noticed that th Democrats were always in control of congress and the White House...

[whistler162]

18. What the....

blathering blatherskit is "adequate experience".

You do realize that your "four" criteria describe Senators Clinton and McCain better than they describe Senator Obama.

[stray cat]

19. Wow - a democrat who prefers four more years of Bush to Obama

thats surprising.

[journalist3072]

21. Off to the greatest page with you!! eom

[joeybee12]

23. You're right, and will get flamed...there's a pattern of really stupid

comments from BO...one he can survive, maybe 2 or 3, but don't think all these aren't going to be highlighted by the repukes in the GE.

And yeah, he is inexperienced.

[patrice]

66. How can you complain about people thinking you are stupid when you think they are stupid?

I would honestly like to know HOW that works, please.

[jillan]

25. ginchinchili - we seem to think alike on alot of issues.

Good to see you :hi:

[ginchinchili]

41. It's always a pleasure running into you here in the trenches.

You remind me that there are still some good, intelligent people here in America. Thanks.

[jillan]

49. Aw thanks!

:pals:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. If you could call what you do "thinking"

To me it looks more like "regurgitating the Hillary talking points ad nauseam".

But YMMV.

[Bensthename]

26. And some people wear shoes.. Such horrible comments. Oh Noooes..

[cali]

29. yet another Baghdad Bob or Bobette out of Camp Hillary.

[OzarkDem]

31. Obama and Axelrod have a toxic strategy

They may think it will win the primary, but it won't win the GE.

They don't represent the values of the Democratic Party.

[patrice]

37. Actually, anyone CAN refer to "typical" anything if they have the information that supports

their statement.

All of us form such hypotheses constantly, usually unconsciously, it is a natural part of our ability to do anything in any situation: "Traffic typically ____________ here at this time of day." "Customers typically _______________ with such a product." "People of this age group typically _____________." "Men/Women typically want _______________ in this situation." "Black/White people typically ________________ when interacting with members of other ethnic groups." "Jews/Christians/Pagans/Muslims/Cthulu-ians typically _________________."

The differences in people are the extent to which any one person holds any such statement as an absolute and NEVER allows anyone to demonstrate any variation on the "typical", or they are incapable of perceiving variations on "typical".

Rationally, "typical" is a product of simply counting. Identify a group and a behavior or a characteristic and count the number of occurrences of the behavior or characteristic in the group and it is possible to come up with statements similar to "For this group, this behavior/characteristic occured a majority of the time, therefore this behavior/characteristic is typical for this group."

The problems come from assuming that there are no variations within the group in that which is "typical"; assuming "typical" is absolutely forever; and assuming that the corelation between whatever is "typical" and the group is one of cause and effect, i.e. "this is typical of this group, ergo being a member of this group causes one to engage in the typical behavior/characteristic"

[ginchinchili]

44. That's nice, but the man was referring to his grandmother.

You know, the one who took him in, finished raising him and sent him to the finest schools, the one without whose help Obama wouldn't be running for president today. Again, I would never refer to my grandmother as "a typical white woman," and, again, what do you think the reaction be be had Bill Clinton referred to a woman as "a typical black woman?" I think you know the answer to that.

[patrice]

54. I think the reaction to BC saying something similar would and should be similar.

There are people who are outraged and there are people who are not outraged. That is as it should be whether it's BC or BO. Why must all of us be alike?

What are you assuming about BO's attitude toward his grandmother from his statement about her typicality? How can you possibly know the vastness of their personal experiences with one another and the vastness of two minds and hearts involved in that relationship?

Even IF his grandmother IS a typical white woman, does that mean he can't love her? Some of the people I love most in this world have HUGE flaws. I don't excuse what I think of as their shortcomings, but I don't hate them for them either. I try to understand and I can't understand that which I refuse to recognize in the first place. How can I love someone I'm pretending isn't who/what s/he actually is? I most certainly don't stop loving the GREAT things about them because of those problems.

:hi:

[Publius2008]

40. Please Stop All these Attacks

I keep seeing these attacks from folks who have this misguided hope that the electorate will swing at the last minute towards Clinton if only they can find some piece of mud to throw at Obama that will stick. It is time to face reality. Obama will be the Democratic nominee, so your choices are him or McCain. This continued nastiness helps no one.

[ginchinchili]

50. I believe it's best not to pretend reality doesn't exist.

It does, and you'd better understand it and prepare for it. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't work too well. Just ask Bush's former supporters.

[patrice]

57. We are in agreement about this as long as you are not assuming that all understandings

are the same.

This does not mean that all understandings are equally true; some will turn out to be more true some less true, but a person must begin where s/he actually is, rather than put on that product of the collective cookie-cutter that got us into the Hell that we're in right now.

[patrice]

65. P.S. Who is the arbiter of "reality"? You? nt

[nichomachus]

52. He also said "but" once

And "but" can also be used to refer to a cigarette. It can also be used to referred to your ass. So, apparently, Obama is in favor shoving cigarettes up your ass. How can we support someone like that? We need to support Hillary, because she would never shove a but up her butt.

Sheesh.

[Hoof Hearted]

53. "typical white person" not just woman, person.

And yeah, he's a real peach of a candidate. Unfortunately for him you can't run an entire campaign from behind a teleprompter.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. The parade of fauxrage continues.

You left out the part about him not wearing a flag pin.

[2rth2pwr]

60. Obama has a way of seeing lots of things as typical.

"a typical sort of political flare-up”

[patrice]

64. You just made the same sort of statement about him, i.e. "This is typical Obama." nt

[2rth2pwr]

69. It is typical Obama. Do you disagree?

[patrice]

72. Yes.

Of the many millions of words the man has spoken up to this point, you need to demonstrate to me that this type of words are the average. That would be the definition of typical. Otherwise, it is cherry picking.

[2rth2pwr]

74. His supporters say those words are brilliant, they think he's brilliant. Typical

[patrice]

68. Of the millions of things about a person, why does one pick a few as "typical"? nt

[2rth2pwr]

70. I'm not sure, let's ask Obama.

[patrice]

73. Don't dodge the question. nt

[mudesi]

63. Stop lying

You know you're taking everything he said out of context.

Yet you post this thread anyway.

[Swamp Rat]

67. Who is dividing the Democratic Party?

[EFerrari]

71. Did you get these points right off of Rush's site or did you bother to tinker?

So, let's count.

You're pushing the "Democrats have no experience" meme, the "uppity Nego" meme, and the "politics as usual" meme.

Boy. You must think DUers are idiots.

lol

[Berry Cool]

76. Well, aren't YOU special, that your grandmother wasn't like that?

My grandmother was German. My mother, her daughter, married the son of Italian immigrants. To her, her own grandchildren were Dagoes. You really don't want to hear what she had to say about black people.

The irony is, she herself married an Italian, although not one she had children with.

And if telling you that is "dismissive" or "limiting" in your eyes, too damn bad. That was how she was.

I am sure there are "typical black women" with "typical thoughts," too. I don't feel qualified to say what those might be, but I do feel qualified to talk about the "typical" thoughts of many white women of my grandmother's era, because I have known more of them.

I don't find what Obama said divisive at all. Rather, I feel he's speaking to me of the reality in which I lived. Not the universal reality, but a part of reality that needs to be acknowledged, rather than swept under the rug, if we are ever to really heal those wounds of which you speak. Sometimes they only look scabbed over, when the truth is they're still fresh and bleeding.

When someone speaks to me of a reality I can relate to, I get the impression he's experienced, doesn't practice double standards, doesn't think he's superior to me and isn't trying to divide the country but, rather, to unite it. And he's the first thing we need.

[Butch350]

77. Hey Lady

That's your opinion! Good luck - but Hillary " WILL NOT BE PRESIDENT "

You and GrandMa can suggle-up-to-that!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

78. this typical bitter rural white woman will not be voting for Obama