"I cannot believe how angry this makes me"

[Inuca]

Jane Smiley says it much better than I can. Here We Go Again http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/here-we-go-again_1_b_96374.html

So now, Barack Obama tells the truth about conditions as we know them--that the countryside and the small towns are dying in many places in our country, and that the corporatocracy doesn't care enough to do a thing about it. He points out that immigrant-baiting, gay-baiting, gun-baiting, and religious pandering have helped to destroy those towns and that countryside, that those being destroyed have been cynically enlisted by their very own destroyers to provide the votes that help accomplish the destruction. And this is what Senator Hillary Clinton says about it: "Senator Obama's remarks were elitist and out of touch. They are not reflective of the values and beliefs of Americans."

[Zachstar]

1. Small towns are going downhill. In many places working at a grocery is the best job you can get.

[babylonsister]

2. ...and then the grocery store goes under. nt

[Zachstar]

3. Good point

[Jawja]

25. Yes, I'm from a small town in

Georgia and my hometown is stagnant. No growth at all. Downtown is dead, as few businesses operate there. Super Walmart gets all the business on the perimeter. Largest employer is the county school system. The big churches are alive and well, however.

In the Presidential Primary, the county went for Huckabee. Will go for the McCain in the general.

It is sad that they continuously vote against their best interests; and yes, it appears that their priority in voting is religion.

[Butch350]

32. Hey Georgia

Maybe McCain will have a weapons or munitions plant built in your town and
maybe sweep up a few of your town youngsters for Iran/Iraq. That ought get the economy going in your neck of the woods?

[hfojvt]

4. this reminds me again of Thomas Frank

and how I thought he was overly pessimistic and derogatory towards Emporia, Ks

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=209&topic_id=366&mesg_id=636

[nichomachus]

5. In the small town I lived in

-- population 2,000 -- we had two gas station/general stores that employed a total of four people who weren't in the owners' families. We also had a pallet factory, which paid minimum wage with no benefits and employed about 10 people. We had three Baptist churches and two (don't ask why) post offices, which employed one person each. Anyone else, if they weren't working from home, as I was, were looking at a minimum of a 30-mile RT commute. Many were doing 50-60 miles commutes.

When I was there, I was putting 225 gallons of oil in my tank every three weeks during the winter. That resulted in about 10 tanks per year total. At the time (2000) oil was 68-cents a gallon. So, I spent about $1,530 a year on oil. This past winter, oil there was $3.50 a gallon, meaning I would be spending $7,850 a year on oil. Also, for folks not working at home, the price of gas went from 89 cents a gallon, when I was living there, to about $3.25 now.

Assuming they're still working, if those people didn't get cost of living increases to cover those inflationary increases -- not to mention the skyrocketing cost of food -- I'm guessing that they're pretty bitter right about now. Hell, I'm bitter and I'm doing a lot better than they are.

[Inuca]

6. One reason out of many that this whole

thing makes me so MAD is that what Obama said is an important truth that needs to be said. And it is an issue that he addressed, though mot in depth, in the race speech. To see how something so fundamentally important is being used as nothing more than a political knife shamelessly trying for as deep a stab as possible is maddening and disgusting.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

7. Hillary the darling and the corporations and NAFTA couldn't care less

she of course is looking for an opening and here she has one - but not for long.

[Snarkoleptic]

8. I'm bitter that things are so bad Super Walmart looks like a possible employer....sigh.

Wait...look over here...
Paris Hilton is up to something.
'They' want to take away your guns.
The illegals want to impregnate your daughter.
The homosexuals want to move in next door.
The secular progressives are out to get you.

[juno jones]

9. I want to weep.

For the town I grew up in. 27,000 people, a thriving, somewhat liberal, industrial town.

Something changed in the 80's. The factories closed down. Hey knitters! Remember Boye notions and knitting needles? 'Every girl needs a Boye?' Used to be made in my town. Made in china now, I bet.

After the work left, people either got religion or took to the bottle. I left to join the midwestern diaspora, finally settling on the left coast.

Many of my old 'friends' are still there. I cannot go back. Because it breaks my heart to see them.

The town has a population of less than 20,000 now and the only reason for that is being the govt/county seat. A town that once had a mall and thriving local businesses and supermarkets now has a 'SuperWal-Mart' and nothing else.

edit for sp.

[PoliticalAmazon]

10. And the Clintons wonder why people hate them? n/t

[tularetom]

11. Here in the appalachia of California

We have an unemployment rate nearing 10% (over that in the winter season), a median family income in the low $30k, a high school dropout rate in excess of 35%, no new jobs and a political establishment that very much supports the status quo. And ya think people aren't bitter? They just haven't figured out yet who it is that has fucked them over so bad.

When they finally wake up (and what Obama is saying will help accomplish that) they will be looking for the lanterns, pitchforks, tar and feathers.

[Hamlette]

12. my favorite part:

I cannot believe how angry this makes me. I cannot believe that after the last seven and a half years, I can even get this angry. Yes, I know she is pandering to her audience. Yes, I know she will do anything to get elected. Yes, I know that she and Bill Clinton are corrupt to the core, and that I should have never expected anything better of her. But, please, any of you angry white women who still support this craven shill, don't mention it to me. Do me the following favor -- apologize to your children for not stopping the war that HIllary voted for, the war that is going to impoverish them. Then apologize to them for the effects of global warming that are going to make their lives hell. Then apologize to them for the school shooting they may someday see, the one where the kid gets the guns out of his father's gun case, or buys at a gunshow. Apologize to them for the meaningless wars they are going to fight and pay for. Then tell them that "American values" killed their hopes and maybe killed them. And ask them if they think it's going to be worth it.

[aaronbees]

13. That is a great essay

I'll say it again: I love Jane Smiley.

I'm furious about Clinton's remarks. Maybe Clinton should spend some time reminding herself about the core Democratic values of the past because her remarks in the last day sure show she's forsaken them and kicked them to the curb for her own political expediency.

[Inuca]

16. It's most definitely not the first time

remember her reaction to Kerry's joke?

[aaronbees]

18. Oh definitely not the first time

Can you refresh my memory on how she reacted to Kerry's joke?

[Inuca]

20. Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[uponit7771]

14. Hillary supported NAFTA, that should say it all to the media

[boston bean]

15. People are spinning. He was talking about people not voting for him and the reasons why.

how does, antipathy for people different than themselves, guns and religion have to do with that. I have been asking this question all day.

[Inuca]

17. Nice sticker

did you use purple band-aids 4 years ago?

As to your question: many people that have been down-trodden for too long do indeed need to "cling" to something. Not all of them, but many. And there are easily manipulated. It is not an elitist view point, it is an uncomfortable and difficult to accept or confront FACT.

[avrdream]

21. I grew up in a very poor family.

We were also quite spiritual.

I am now quite well off.

And I am still spiritual.

I never did "cling" to religion to get me through poverty. I didn't buy a gun and I didn't go off on immigrants in order to overcome any "bitter"ness that poverty may have caused.

He came across as elitist. Like Donnie McClurkin and Rev. Wright, this is indefensible. The attempts at spinning it otherwise are actually pretty damned funny to watch. Fortunately, big media appears to feel a bit different than the OP because the truth about Barack should definitely come out. He is a fraud.

[Inuca]

22. As I said, NOT ALL

every person is different, different circumstances, different background, different that something unique, I don't know what it is that makes each of us, well... different. I have always been very cautious and circumspect about generalizations. In that much we seem to agree. On the other hand, there is also a forest, not only individual trees. There are trends, there are commonalities that need to be understood and addressed. Your personal experience (and I am sure that there are many others with similar experiences) does not imply that what I said (and more importantly what Obama said) is not true more often than not. Also, poverty is a relative thing. There are millions upon millions out there, primarily in what we so condescendingly still call the "third world", that live in conditions that here would be considered abject poverty, and that are perfectly happy with their lives, and rightfully so. It's the feeling of having the rug pulled from under your feet, of having the everyday structure of your life being blown apart, that can (again, NOT always) shatter your inner system of reference, engender bitterness and hopelessness, and trigger the need to "cling" to something just to escape from drowning.

[benEzra]

24. The offensive aspect of the statement wasn't that some are bitter, and that some are clinging...

but rather the implication that those who are religious, or who choose to own guns, make those choices because they are bitter and clinging. When, in fact, most religious people, and most people who responsibly own and use guns, do not do so because they "need something to cling to."

[Inuca]

26. He did NOT imply that

He did not say that being religious or owning guns means you are bitter. He said that that specific type of bitterness MAY lead to finding a refuge in guns or religion. If A -> B it does not also mean that B -> A, and that's the kind of inference I see in what you wrote, if I understand it correctly.

[benEzra]

29. He needs to make that clear, IMO.

And I will probably still vote for Obama over HRC--hopefully this episode will lead to greater understanding all around.

[Inuca]

30. I agree

I hope that somehow he will be able to turn a crisis into an opportunity.

I hope you do not mind my asking: what state are you in?

[benEzra]

31. North Carolina. (n/t)

[me b zola]

19. Wedge issues

Senator Obama is speaking about wedge issues. You remember those things, before this God-forsaken primary, when we used to *all* excoriate the republicans for using them to divert attention away from the real issues?

[benEzra]

23. If that's the case, then equating religion and gun ownership

with racism and xenophobia, and insinuating that those who choose to own guns do so out of bitterness rather than rational choice, is hardly the way to defuse those wedge issues.

I'm from small-town NC; my wife was born in Boston, but grew up in small-town Maine. We both own guns, by choice. And we're not fundies, but we go to church, by choice. We do not do so out of "bitterness."

FWIW, I was leaning strongly toward Obama prior to this week, and I am still leaning in his direction. But this was indeed offensive.

[Inuca]

27. Again, please read my answer to your post above

and especially please read again what Obama actually said (not what the Clinton, McCain and some of what I saw/heard in the media claim he said). This is EXACTLY what Clinton's attack line is, how dare he imply that being religious is a sign of bitterness, etc., which is NOT what he said. She/they are misinterpreting what he said to serve their own purpose. Here is what he actually said ""And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," he also said." http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/13/obama.clinton/ You may agree or disagree with his analysis, but please base your oppinion on the truth, not on the way his words are being spun by others. And, just in case it is not clear from what I wrote, I mean all this without the least amount of snark or negativity, just a sincere entreaty and attempt to change your mind :-).

[amandabeech]

28. Small town Michigan, here.

Now an ex-pat on the East Coast.

I'm not very religious and I don't own a gun, but my family has members who are and have both. My town and surrounding towns are full of people like my family.

I agree with you 100%.

This, together with the Rev. Wright mess, will be used by the pubbies in the fall, and I expect that the dems will lose voters all over the country on it: there are religious people everywhere, not just in small towns in PA and the Midwest.

I don't think that Obama's efforts to re-define his statements will be effective totally.