It's Obama, stupid: Carter and Gore to end Clinton bid

[kpete]

It's Obama, stupid: Carter and Gore to end Clinton bid

DEMOCRAT grandees Jimmy Carter and Al Gore are being lined-up to deliver the coup de grâce to Hillary Clinton and end her campaign to become president. Falling poll numbers and a string of high-profile blunders have convinced party elders that she must now bow out of the primary race.

Former president Carter and former vice-president Gore have already held high-level discussions about delivering the message that she must stand down for the good of the Democrats.

"They're in discussions," a source close to Carter told Scotland on Sunday. "Carter has been talking to Gore. They will act, possibly together, or in sequence."

............

A number of options are being considered by the higher echelons of the Democrats, but they fall roughly into two categories. One is for Carter and Gore to go to Clinton privately and ask her to step down. The other is for both men to appear in public and endorse Obama – a move which would see a majority of superdelegates go with them.



more at:
http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/It39s-Obama-stupid-Carter-and.3976738.jp

[crispini]

1. Finally. nt

[Tellurian]

73. This rumor has been flying around for a month...

neither Carter nor Gore are about to end anything!

[Nedsdag]

91. That's what you think, princess!

[Tellurian]

104. Thats what I know..

In case you missed this revelation..:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5474523#5474834

[jasmine621]

147. It would be foolish for them to not allow this primary to run its course.

I will be very disappointed if they do that. Talk about destroying the party. To me, this would do it. Why all this for Obama? What has he done to earn this kind of support? Who is really financing him? This shit is really scary.

[thoughtcrime1984]

159. Scary? What's scary is the MSM skull-humping the word "bitter"

just to give the chosen one another chance at her crown jewels. And she more than consents, with her fake grin and fake concern.

[Bake]

236. Kinda like you Obots have been skull-humping snipergate?

Obama says words matter. He made an incredibly poor choice of words. Why can't you people admit it? Obama has. Geez. How's that Kool-Aid today?

Bake

[Tellurian]

161. Here is what I make of it all..

The Republicans prefer the weakest of the two candidates to confront in the GE. They have chosen Obama as their preferred candidate. How do I know that? Because every media (Republican owned) outlet is not only supporting Obama but defending him and attacking Hillary. The Republicans have been holding their fire against Obama betting he is the nominee. There is so much of Obama's personal agenda that hasn't been brought to the forefront to be dealt with here because it is unfavorable and felt as stinging to the palate of his supporters.

It is no secret Obama is an unvetted candidate unlike the Cintons. It is no secret the DNC in their derelict judgment has chosen Obama as their favored nominee. It is also no secret each and every DNC representative Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy etc.. all the way to the Chairman and associates of the CBC expect to benefit from their alignment with Obama should he win the GE.

It also isn't a secret the DNC has never WON and election in the last eight years they chose the nominee and all the way back to when Ted Kennedy sought the Dem Nomination. The DNC has been routed every single time for over 25 yrs by Republicans period.

The only Democrats that have successfully breeched the hold Republicans have had on the Presidency are the Clintons. Is it any wonder Republicans love what is going on, are taking notes and hoping for a war torn battered candidate they can easily upend with their torturous attack machine.

Out of the two candidates, Obama will be the more vulnerable if he is the ultimate nominee and easily shredded by similar accusations mounted in detail plastered wall to wall over every network who presently praises him. How do I know this? Because the once friendly media will become his worst nightmare. They support Republithink and will go on their merry way and destroy what they have built up for the last year or so... within a month or two after his nomination. Obama will be DOA by the time November rolls around and we will once again be strapped to another four years of a Neocon agenda.

Sorry, if I haven't told you what you expected to hear but thats the way I see it. And thats the way it will be, if in fact Obama is the nominee, it will play out exactly as I've described.

[Milo_Bloom]

163. LMAO... How out of touch can one human get?

"They have chosen Obama as their preferred candidate. How do I know that? Because every media (Republican owned) outlet is not only supporting Obama but defending him and attacking Hillary"


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The fact that they are allowing her to appear viable when she has no path to nomination makes it clear they are shilling for Obama.

IF they weren't shilling for her, she would be getting the Gravel level of coverage she deserves at this point, but because they are trying to turn this into a horse race, despite the fact it has been over since she failed to win Ohio and Texas, they keep talking about her as if she is relevant.

[Tellurian]

170. Keep talking..your post makes no credible sense at all..

If Obama was the strongest and preferred candidate of the two, he should have closed on her long ago. He hasn't and that speaks volumes all by it self. It means people do not TRUST him as their president because as time goes on, the info coming out about Obama is not an appropriate philosophy for a US President.

Obama falls far short in the comparison dept of the Presidents he's been compared to. Obama isn't a war veteran as was Jack Kennedy, Obama hasn't written anything comparable to the Gettysburg Address, Obama hasn't passed any earth shattering legislation that has changed the world, Obama isn't a Champion Golfer as is Tiger Woods, Obama doesn't embrace the philosophy of Martin Luther King or Robert Kennedy...

Obama has zero accomplishments in his resume... with the exception, he's a great bull-shitter and would make a popular talking head on msnbc. But Presidential material...nope.

[PerfectSage]

189. Hillary said it would be over on Super Tuesday.

She should have closed on him long ago. She hasn't and that speaks volumes all by it self. It means people do not TRUST her as their president because as time goes on, the info coming out about Hillary is not an appropriate philosophy for a US President.

She's too stupid to understand the significance of Dean's 50 State/grassroots Strategy

Hillary falls far short in the comparison dept of the Presidents she's been compared to. Hillary isn't a war veteran as was Jack Kennedy, Hillary hasn't written anything comparable to the Gettysburg Address, Hillary hasn't passed any earth shattering legislation that has changed the world, Hillary isn't a Champion Golfer as is Tiger Woods, Hillary doesn't embrace the philosophy of Martin Luther King or Robert Kennedy...

Hillary couldn't even come up with a More Perfect Union Speech. She's a doormat. Her husband has been cheating on her since Day One at 3:00am

Hillary has zero accomplishments in her resume... with the exception, she's a crappy bull-shitter and couldn't pull the wool over the eye's of anyone with 2 braincells. She'd would make a crappy talking head on msnbc. But Presidential material...nope.

ROTFLMAO

[Tellurian]

191. Ewww...

Please refrain from playing word salad with my previous post.. Obama is also proving that he is not a candidate of "Hope" but one of bitter, inane, leftist dogma with a contempt for all that don`t bow to his messianic ambitions.

[PerfectSage]

196. Guess what? The Next 4 Year cycle low is due in Oct 2010

You'll be plenty bitter by then at having been deceived by a Beltway/K Street Whore with messianic ambitions. :rofl:

[H8fascistcons]

264. Hey Tellurian...

Do you work for the RNC or Hillary, it's either one or the other, the needle on my BS meter just went off the scale....

[Milo_Bloom]

193. The denial continues...

"If Obama was the strongest and preferred candidate of the two, he should have closed on her long ago. He hasn't and that speaks volumes all by it self. "

Hmmm, now why would that be? Could it be because media outlets are shilling for another candidate, despite the fact that she has no chance at the nomination.... Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh.. that couldn't be it.

Its because people don't trust him... Umm, but wait... all recent polling shows that they trust him far FAR more than the other person running, but those "Obama friendly" media outlets don't report those polls... How do they miss these things?

Keep on keeping on.

[Stand and Fight]

207. Just as Obama has no path to the nomination.

It is clear that YOU are shilling for Obama. I want my damn vote to make a difference. I do not believe that Obama will represent me or other Americans as well as Hillary Clinton would.

[Milo_Bloom]

237. Of course he does.

Obama has a simple path to the nomination.

Even if Obama significantly underperforms his current path, he gets the nomination. He only has to win 35% of the superdelegates (he is currently winning 46%) and along with that he can win LESS THAN 50% of the remaining popular vote, of which he currently has greater than 50%.

Even if Hilary won every contest, including the SD's in the exact proportions she won her HOME STATE, Obama would STILL WIN.

[sudopod]

168. You are completely out of touch.

The media's #1 target was Mike Gravel.

[blm]

258. OMG - look at open government lawmakers siding with Obama and WHO would benefit from that

Thanks to Tellurian, us citizens better start to WORRY with all those open government defenders seeking to benefit from being associated with Obama presidency.

Unlike the worry we would have from closed government Democrats who we can TRUST to protect BushInc. BushInc won't fight back so hard in the general if it is Clinton-McCain. They trust both will keep their secrets.

[eridani]

165. The same fat cats who are financing Clinton--plus 2 million small donors n/t

[chascarrillo]

204. The primary has run its course. Clinton lost. Sorry.

[Stand and Fight]

206. I agree.

Were this to happen, I would be supremely angry and likely unforgiving. Especially since I so admire President Carter and former Vice-President Gore. This would be a cruel slap in the face and a likely unforgivable affront.

[roguevalley]

169. what revelation? they do this every time. nothing new here and nothing

about her being able to continue.

[Zhade]

93. they don't need to, since she's not going to get the nom.

She's done anyway, they'd just be ending it mercifully. But if she wants to drag it out and THEN lose (which she will), whatever.

[JayFredMuggs]

101. Stick a fork in her! She's DONE!

The Tuzla, Bosnia landing under "sniper fire" was the worst thing she ever uttered out of her mouth, freely, not under duress, not under waterboarding..........George W Bush was NEVER that stupid.

Stick a fork in her, she's DONE!

Obama, by contrast, tells us that some folks in rural areas of PA, or other places, men he has met, are "bitter" and every Hillary supporter gets their panties in a wad.

What gives with the Hillary supporters unable to face the facts?

I really wonder where they get their news.

[Tellurian]

105. Don't be ridiculous... The event was 15 yrs ago..

Everyone can identify with a faulty memory of events that happened years ago.

[me b zola]

117. Faulty memory my ass. Don't *you* be ridiculous

She clearly made that entire shtick up out of whole cloth.

[Tellurian]

127. As did many pages appear in Obama's book made out of whole cloth..

As Obama admitted to making the story more interesting.

It isn't a crime or a lie...methinks, the proper word for it is "embellishment"!

And the definition is:

*embellishment* (noun)

1. elaboration of an interpretation by the use of decorative (sometimes fictitious) detail;
"the mystery has been heightened by many embellishments in subsequent retellings"

2. a superfluous ornament

3. the act of adding extraneous decorations to something

[me b zola]

132. Here's one huge difference

Hillary goes beyond embellishment and ends up making herself to be a two-bit liar that disrespects the service of combat veterans. Kind of like war-time vets who were never deployed to a combat zone "embellishing" the facts of their service--they are despised by those whom were in theater.

[Tellurian]

142. Your analogy falls flat on it's face.. considering:

all the work Hillary has done for Veterans..

As a presidential candidate, Hillary's veterans agenda includes:

*A new G.I. Bill of Rights. Hillary's has proposed a new bargain with our troops. Her plan would reduce the level of red tape facing our wounded service members and veterans; make available microloans for entrepreneurial ventures up to $100,000; expand opportunities for veterans to purchase, build, repair or improve a home; protect service members against predatory lending, insurance, and other financial practices; and provide educational scholarships for those who have served.

*Guaranteed, mandatory funding of our veteran's healthcare system. Hillary does not think that the Veteran's Administration should be fighting every year to get the funding necessary to care for our wounded Veterans. She has called for full funding of veterans' health care, taking into account the fluctuating number of veterans and inflation in each year going forward.

*A pay raise for wartime troops. One in five military families rely on food stamps and other public assistance to survive and last year's pay increase for members of the uniformed services was just 2.2 percent, the lowest since 1994. Hillary has called upon President Bush to increase pay for our troops by 3.5 percent.

*A monthly stipend for Gold Star Parents. Hillary introduced the Gold Star Parents Annuity Act, legislation that would provide a $125 monthly stipend to surviving mothers and fathers whose sons or daughters lost their lives while serving in the Armed Forces during a period of war for the rest of their lives.

*Free postage for the family and friends of service members. Hillary introduced legislation that provides each service member deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan or hospitalized at a Department of Defense (DOD) facility as a result of service in Iraq or Afghanistan with a voucher every two months that would enable his or her family or friends to send the service member one free package or piece of mail (up to ten pounds).

Senator Clinton's Record:

*In the Senate, Hillary has championed legislation to improve the lives of our veterans and their families. She has secured funding for Veterans' hospitals, and secured additional support for disabled veterans. She also successfully fought off the Administration's proposal to double the co-payment for prescription drugs of certain veterans.

*She created a health tracking system for all active duty personnel and Reservists to ensure that they receive regular check ups; and expanded access to military healthcare benefits (TRICARE) for all Guard and Reserve members whether they are on active duty or not in order to prevent another illness like Gulf War Syndrome.

*She successfully passed her Heroes at Home legislation, which helps family members learn to support loved ones suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), identify ways to help Guardsmen and Reservists transition back to civilian jobs, and assess the mental health challenges -- including PTSD -- faced by members of the Guard and Reserve. Hillary's initiative improves the detection, assessment and treatment of traumatic brain injury and expands support systems for members and former members of the Armed Services with traumatic brain injury and their families.

*She passed legislation to increase the military survivor benefit from $12,000 to $100,000.

*Clinton successfully worked to address veterans' mental health needs. In part as a result of her efforts, the Veterans Administration will be directed to take into consideration the needs and concerns of Veterans as it proceeds with the CARES process.

*Hilary wrote to Postmaster General John Potter, and launched a petition on her website to urge the Postmaster General to continue issuing the Purple Heart stamp. Hundreds of people signed the petition which were then delivered to Postmaster General John Potter. As a result, the U.S. Postal Service decided to continue printing the Purple Heart Stamp despite the recent rate change.

*In recognition of her efforts, the American Legion named Senator Clinton an "unsung hero" of the 108th congress for her leadership in securing record increases in funding for veterans health care.

And in light of Obama's abysmal Record of Care for Veterans in Illinois:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x117353#117396

[Milo_Bloom]

164. Yeah, she just sent them off to die.

[Tellurian]

175. It's Bushes war... don't ever forget that!

[jazzjunkysue]

179. HRC approved it. That's a fact, whether you want to admit it, or not.

I've also heard alot of people say McCain won't keep us in Iraq forever. Just because you can invent pretty little fictions in your mind doesn't mean the rest of us are oblicated to do the same.

Keep your ugly war and go home. She's done. You're all in denial and it's not helping anyone, except McCain.

[Tellurian]

183. It's Bush's War and She will end it..

Obama cannot be depended on for anything.

[Milo_Bloom]

195. It's the Clintons' war.

Bill laid the groundwork for it and she ran with the ball by voting for it.

Without their help, bush couldn't have gotten it done.

That's reality.

[Tellurian]

223. It's Bush's War, always was and always will be

no matter how you spin, dodge, duck and dive.

[Milo_Bloom]

240. Nope.

The groundwork was laid in 1997/1998.


Without Clinton I's statements about Iraq and his willingness to give in to PNAC's demands about regime change... bush II wouldn't have been able to push it as hard.

Without Clinton II's and other cowardly democratic votes and lies about reasons for the vote (claiming it was about getting inspectors in or that everyone thought Saddam had WMD), he couldn't have gone in.

Without Clinton II's and other cowardly democratic votes against the Levin amendment, he couldn't have gone in.

trying to claim it is only bush's war, is trying to blame one member of a team for a loss... they did it together.

[Tellurian]

248. Milo... Look up the War Powers Resolution of 1973..

stop kidding yourself by playing the blame Clinton game. That Resolution gave Bush the authority to unilaterally attack another country without Congressional approval..If memory serves, it says so about mid way on the very first page. While you're reading ...think back how Bush began making his case in his SOTU Address. Colin Powell at the UN hearings convincingly holding up a baggie of (Baby Formula) yellow cake uranium that supposedly was delivered to Hussein from Niger at his request. Don't forget to include and factor in Joe Wilson, who went to Niger himself investigating the claims of "yellow cake delivery to Hussein" finding the claim to be false and saying so publicly and the revenge inflicted on his wife by the presidential tag team for telling Americans the truth.

The Hussein/yellow cake/ WMDs was Bush's "linchpin" in compliance with the language written in the 73'Resolution.. Bush didn't need Clinton or the Congress for the go ahead to attack Iraq. What Bush was lacking was support from Foreign countries aiding him in troop support and financing for the War which he eventually achieved.

[Milo_Bloom]

256. Still using the same silly spin, I see.

What game... just laying blame where it belongs.

Bill Clinton laid the groundwork for the Iraq war by calling for regime change and continuing the WMD bull crap even after Iraq was disarmed.

Hilary Clinton voted for the IWR and continually lied about her reasons for doing so. To this day she still tries to claim it was about getting the inspectors in, but conveniently ignores the fact that Iraq had agreed with the UN for inspectors to resume just weeks before.


"But, but, but, he could've done it anyway, so the vote didn't matter."

Could have and would have are two completely different things. The public was, at best, split on the idea of invading Iraq even with all the lies being told and repeated by our representatives who knew better. (She speeches from Clinton and Edwards at the time calling Saddam a threat). IWR fails and bush goes anyway... this is a president who doesn't win re-election in 2004 and he knows it.



The Clinton's deserve credit for this war, because it couldn't have happened without them. If Bill Clinton had dismissed the Iraq threat in 1997/98, when it actually didn't exist anymore, instead of giving into the PNAC demands and calling for regime change, bush wouldn't have been able to hold up saddam as the threat he wasn't.


If Hilary Clinton had any strength and stood up against the IWR, she could have converted more democrats and defeated the bill OR at least passed the Levin amendment, which would have required bush to come back to congress for permission.

But they both failed MISERABLY and deserve the share in the credit of that failure.

[Tellurian]

266. We both lived through it Milo

and your memory of events is questionable...the woulda, shoulda, coulda, defense doesn't play well in Peoria. Too many variables when you lay them all end to end. You need the perfect scenario of events to lay the blame at Clinton's feet. For every action there is a reaction. If Bush would have been stone walled with the Levin Amendment they would have created another event mirroring 9/11. So your explanation just isn't as iron-clad as you'd like it to be. The bottom line is Bush was going into Iraq and no one and no Congressional "nay"vote was going to stop him. However, if you feel better blaming the Clintons, I won't stand in the way of 'faux' happiness. It's been nice talking to you anyway...
:toast:

[Milo_Bloom]

268. Who is creating variables exactly?

Clinton ordered regime change in Iraq. Clinton reinforced the WMD folly in the 1990's, after they were gone. These aren't variables, these are facts.

The other Clinton voted for the IWR and voted down the Levin amendment. Not a variable, but a fact.


The only "variable" is the silly leap of logic that "he was going anyway" as if to excuse the actions of everyone who came before him. The only person who matters is the running back who takes it the last 10 yards into the end zone... Sorry, but here in the real world, we can lay the facts out end to end and the picture becomes clear... each piece is a part of the puzzle and without the ones before it, the next piece wouldn't fit.

For bush to go to war with Iraq in 2003 he needed Clinton to order regime change and talk about Saddam's WMD's in the late 90s. He needed the democrats to cowardly vote for the IWR. He needed them to also vote down the Levin amendment. He needed them to lie about their votes. It was all the cover he needed to go to war with the full authority of the government and the people.

There is a lot of blame to go around for this war. Bush gets the lions share, but to absolve the Clinton's their fair share, well that just isn't very honest of you.

[CTLawGuy]

252. This isn't a dictatorship

that war was authorized out of congress's inherent power under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution to declare war, with Hillary's name on it.

[cali]

224. no matter your pathetic denial, anyone who voted

to give the chimp a blank check- like Hillary Dearest- helped start it. Tough shit for you that the American people know that.

[Stand and Fight]

209. As did our boy, John Edwards.

That's a fact as well.

[Milo_Bloom]

194. And Clinton's... and ever other democrat who voted for it.

And don't you forget that. No democrat who voted for this war will ever be president.

[Tellurian]

225. The War vote is not the measure used to determine the presidency..

Maybe for lone Obama supporters it is..For the majority of people in this country, ENDING the war is their Primary concern and Hillary will end it. Obama is already pandering to Republicans hoping to sell fur coats to Polar Bears on the off-chance he'll win their vote in the general. Obama is whoever he needs to be depending on the audience in front of him. His divisiveness and 20 yrs of Rev Wright will have cost him not only PA but the nomination itself. After all is said and done, he's no Jack Kennedy, no Abraham Lincoln, no Martin Luther King and no Tiger Woods. In fact, he's a far cry from the orator who gave us a great speech at the 04'convention because that's all it ever was...just words.

[Milo_Bloom]

238. Yes, it is.

Millions and millions of normal democratic voters WILL NOT vote for a candidate who voted for the war.

This is why she lost the nomination.

This is why she won't be president.

[Tellurian]

244. They will if they want a Democrat in the WH..

She hasn't lost the nomination. Obama thinks he's won it, is the problem..

:hi:

[SwampG8r]

187. so if we use definition 3

it means like gold plating a dog turd?

[IntravenousDemilo]

156. I'm sure I'd remember EXACTLY whether someone was shooting at me or not.

This doesn't happen every day. It's not the kind of thing one forgets the details of, unlike such mundane things as what one had for lunch on a certain date 15 years ago. A far-off meal would probably not stick in my mind for a decade and a half, unless it were a really special lunch -- for instance, if some snipers had been firing automatic weapons at me the whole time while I was eating.

BTW, the pink "Hillary is 44" button would have been accurate back in 1992, when she was 44. Today, ehh, not so much... ;)

[leftrightwingnut]

233. If I landed anywhere under sniper fire, that would be a rather salient memory.

What are you saying, Hillary is having "senior moments" like McCain? Quite a "senior moment" to remember sniper fire when there was none.

[Blue Fire]

265. Excuse me.......... Don't be ridiculous? Faulty memory?

You have GOT to be kidding! Unless your in the throes of all-out dementia, I kinda think you would remember the reality of being shot at!

[JackORoses]

114. did you just piss yourself a little bit?

[People4Change]

257. Self Destruction of the Democrats

The Democratic Party, in my opinion, is doing everything it can to hand the November election to the Republicans. Talk about self destructive!

It's obvious to anyone that has a concept of math and numbers that Hillary cannot overtake Obama in the primaries. The only way she can "win" is for the superdelegates to hand it to her over Obama, who will have the most pledged delegates. Even the DNC leaders aren't that stupid (I hope) as it would destroy the Democratic party for years to come.

Knowing all of this, Hillary Clinton persists in running a destructive, negative campaign that's only goal seems to be harming Obama enough so McCain will win in November. That would serve only one purpose - to give Hillary a chance to run again in 2012.

So this whole train wreck called the Clinton campaign is going to continue to destroy all hopes for November and putting a Democrat in the White House to serve Hillary & Bill Clinton's self interests.

What bothers me even more is that the leaders of the Democratic party such as Gore & Carter are sitting back, letting the Clintons do it when they have the means to put the brakes on this destructive train. Why are they all afraid of the Clintons?

Thank goodness Bill Richards had the nerve to stand up and say enough. Too bad other "leaders" of the Democratic party don't have the guts to do the same.

By the way, I find it very interesting that Hillary sitting in an Indiana bar getting drunk last night, tossing back shots of whiskey & beer, gets no play in the mainstream media today. If it had been Obama, they would have been all over the story.

Most telling was a comment by Hillary reported on ABC political radar blog:

"My campaign drives people to drink," Clinton said with a smile.

Then she turned to her ABC and CBS embedded campaign reporters.

"The only bad thing about this wonderful time with you is that every bite I take is recorded for posterity," she said. "These two young people are really very very nice but their job is to get something on film that looks really weird, so I try to accommodate them as much as often."

Where is the media coverage of Hillary acting so "presidential?"

[azmouse]

2. Amen.

[YDogg]

B Clinton may tell them to f-off.

Although I wish this would come to pass.

[BlueIdaho]

123. Bill Clinton isn't Bill Clinton anymore. nt.

[jazzjunkysue]

180. He sure stepped in it. n/t.

[FatDave]

254. Stepped in it and tried to wipe it off with his bare hands but only succeeded in smearing it around

[GarbagemanLB]

3. THANK YOU.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

4. Uh oh.

:popcorn:

[tishaLA]

5. I'm not religious

But I'm going to start praying.

[leftofcool]

6. Nope, they don't have the clout

[melody]

33. What a surprise - leftofcool, 2rth2pwr , etc, all on one thread

Just as you have been, all clustered together -- making my ignore list much easier to expand. Thank you!

[2rth2pwr]

64. Hang on! wait a sec.. just one second

.






.






.






Made you look!

[Tellurian]

76. Here is the Truth:" PM to meet all three US presidential hopefuls"

PM to meet all three US presidential hopefuls

Downing Street hopes visit will build a rapport with next Oval Office incumbent

* Ewen MacAskill in Washington
* The Guardian,
* Saturday April 12 2008

"Gordon Brown will next week hold meetings in Washington with each of the three presidential candidates in an attempt to establish a rapport with the man or woman who will become the next US leader.

Although Brown is to visit George Bush at the White House on Thursday, the main focus of his visit is separate meetings planned for the same day with the Democrats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, and the Republican John McCain.

All three presidential hopefuls have agreed to the meetings, to be held either at the British embassy or the residence of the ambassador, Nigel Sheinwald. In an attempt to avoid accusations of British bias in favour of one candidate, each has been allocated a strict 45 minutes."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/12/uselections2008.hillaryclinton

The OP's article as much as it represents wishful thinking doesn't seem to be in step with what is currently happening with the candidates. This seems to be a sensationalizing of mere rumor taken as gospel akin to tabloid journalism and pedaled to the masses as something in the offing as soon as next week. It's just NOT going to happen that way.

[Yael]

121. And Trippi launched a fundraiser 3 days before Edwards dropped out

Whats yer point?

[Tellurian]

129. Do you actually think, a British PM is the same as a Campaign Manager?

wow...I don't think there is enough time here, really..

[Yael]

136. Yes, because i am stupid

OR, I was making reference to the fact that campaigns stop on a dime. JRE's did and so will hers...

[Tellurian]

150. The difference is Hillary will fight for us

unlike our last candidate. She demonstrates what the Democrats have needed all along..a Fighter with Brains and Guts..

[Yael]

167. Hillary doesn't know how to spell "us".

Hillary fights for Hillary.

[Tellurian]

171. Hillary is fighting for what she believes..

She is the right candidate for the job. As long as she's willing, so am I.

[Yael]

173. And when she concedes -- will you support him?

[wisteria]

177. Hillary is fighting for herself and power. She has no intention of fighting for us.

She would sell us down the river if need be to gain what she wants. I am very sorry,but after her latest comments that sold out the Democratic party as well as the probable Democratic nominee I have no respect left for this woman. I can not vote for someone I do not respect.

[jazzjunkysue]

182. Hillary will fight for Hillary.

End of discussion. The last several months have proven that quite clearly.

[americanstranger]

130. What's that got to do with the OP?

'Splain.

- as

[Yael]

135. Not a blasted thing

But it wants us to think that she will fade gently into that good night as opposed to keeping on until her debts are paid off.

Best I can tell.

[crankychatter]

74. Where will ignored go after Obama wins PA, NC and IN?

will they be phone banking for McCain?

I would be ashamed to show up here, if it were me.

[2rth2pwr]

89. Obama winning PA? LOL?

[Heathen57]

108. Anything less than a 20-point win

is a victory for Barack. The polls have him at only a single digit debit which would not allow her to gain enough delegates to do any good.

[Zhade]

94. rending their garments and insisting she still has a chance.

Delusion doesn't take to facts well.

[Yael]

122. leftofsane will likely not stick around for the festivities

I will miss it.

[desertflamingo]

210. W...T...F...!?!?!?

are you kidding?!!?! barry winning PA?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[stevenleser]

77. I dont see posts from them, all I see is Ignored

:rofl:

[stillcool]

98. Kind of like aspens...

They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them.

[melody]

157. Well put n/t

[GoneOffShore]

239. Are you sure they aren't all the same person?

Real hit and runners they are.

[melody]

250. That was my point, yes, they are all the same person n/t

[GoneOffShore]

261. oops

Sorry.

Sunday AM, No coffee. bad night and didn't read the entire thread.


:blush:

[blogslut]

7. K&R, kpete

K&R

[adoraz]

8. is this source reliable?

[otohara]

106. This Is The Paper

who Samantha Power did the interview with where she called Sen. Clinton a monster. How weird we have to read stuff like this in British & Scottish papers.

[MercutioATC]

9. Even if this is true, they can't end her run.

It would make it very politically uncomfortable for her, but I don't think that matters to her any more.

[jackson_dem]

14. It would probably help her. Two men representing the party establishment asking her to quit

The optics of it are not good.

[GarbagemanLB]

18. Trying to spin this to help you, huh? Sorry, not going to happen. If this happens, no SDs for Hill.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[melody]

20. No, it wouldn't. Everyone respects Gore. Almost everyone respects Carter.

It would effectively end her candidacy -- UNLESS her real, absolute reason for continuing is to destroy the party.

[jackson_dem]

29. Respect doesn't equal being sheep

[melody]

37. The only sheep are the ones who refuse to see Hillary's real game plan

You're the blind ones following her off a cliff, along with our whole party.

[jackson_dem]

44. Projection? Obama would give us four years of McSame

He can't win a general election. Ironic that two general election losers (Carter did win once but only after blowing 33 points of a 35 point lead. In 1980 he was slaughtered.) are going to dictate that he be the nominee...

[melody]

58. Obama is the nominee -- he is the only one with a chance of winning

A serious consideration of McCain and Obama will show that Obama will crush him in any election -- unless of course
Hillary draws this out.

Carter was slaughtered because Poppy Bush conspired with an enemy nation to get Reagan into office.

[VolcanoJen]

80. That was fast

Way to immediately characterize Carter and Gore as "losers" simply because there's some unsubstantiated rumor on the internets that they might not endorse Princess Clinton.

[Heathen57]

112. I would really like some details

about how Obama can't win the GE. Or is it just the delusions speaking?

[VolcanoJen]

71. I'm looking forward to the Clintonian screeching about loyalty

And how everyone who ever lived owes the Clintons.

I imagine you'll enjoy it as much as I will.

[JI7]

32. hahahha, Party establishment=Clintons, Gore nad Carter are Nobel Peace Prize winners

here is your stinking establishment

[jackson_dem]

43. Read the article. Carter, Gore are acting on behalf of the party establishment

[JackORoses]

115. keep telling yourself that,

We'll keep working hard for President Obama.

[jackson_dem]

200. Being president of a group of "devoted" followers does not make you POTUS

[JackORoses]

216. Oh, he will be President. I will bet you money on that.

Care to make a friendly DU Donation wager on either this Nomination outcome or on the GE?

You name the amount...

[razorman]

10. They'll be wasting their breath.

Hillary will not care what they have to say. She intends to get the nomination at any cost.

[jackson_dem]

11. What legal authority do they have to coronate a candidate?

How did their support of Dean work out for him in 2004?

[GarbagemanLB]

15. It's all about the SDs, baby. You should know that. Gore/Carter = SDs ensure Obama victory. Gobama!

[jackson_dem]

16. They are 2 supers. If they can get others to go along with them that is something else

But Gore and Carter cannot by fiat declare a nominee.

[Pastiche423]

54. No one is declaring a fiat

You are the only person saying that. Something needs to be done to prevent the party from more damage done by the Clintons.

[americanstranger]

28. Uh-oh. If this is true, Gore and Carter

will soon join the long list of people who are 'dead' to Hillary supporters.

That will truly be something to watch.

- as

[jackson_dem]

40. No but, again, what legal authority do they have to dictate the nominee?

[americanstranger]

49. I'm not a lawyer,

but I do find it interesting that you immediately go to the legal aspect.

Do you think that if approached by party leaders to step down, the Clintons would unleash the legal hounds?

Wonder how that would play among your average Democrats? Talk about 'bad optics...'

- as

[jackson_dem]

198. They have no authority to force her to do anything

Carter used to be president. Can he declare an end to the Iraq war? No. He does not have the authority to do so.

[americanstranger]

208. But why are you pushing 'legal authority?'

Are we looking forward to 'Bush v. Gore II?' To settle a primary?

Do you think even Hillary and her inept advisors are stupid enough to even try that?

- as

[Yael]

67. This isn't about dictating anything

Throwing their support when they said they would be neutral to the Convention is large. There will be a flood of SD endorsements if this happens.

If they have to resort to doing this publically as opposed to privately (where HRC can control the timing/message), then it will also become a wedge in the party and an international embarrassment for her.

Lots of eggs could get cracked on this one.

[jazzjunkysue]

184. It's a party. A party has leaders. Grow up, already.

What is this, Kindergarden?

[jackson_dem]

197. Ooohhh. Such an astute adult analysis

What authority do they have?

[ekwhite]

186. Absolutely none

I would be two additional SD votes for Obama, of course. You seen to be completely ignoring the high regard with which Gore and Carter are held in the Democratic party. I doubt they would do it without lining up enough superdelegates to put Obama over the 2024 mark.

[jackson_dem]

199. I don't discount their popularity but it needs to be put into perspective

Gore and Carter are revered on the "netroots" but they have no authority to make Clinton, or anyone else do anything.

Are Gore and Carter wasting their time quibbilng with hundreds of superdelegates and demanding they coronate Obama? I doubt it. They are acting as agents of other leaders (think Kerry, Pelosi, and Kennedy). Good for them but they cannot declare a nominee by fiat. Some supers will be swayed by them but most won't. Superdelegates are not lackeys of the 2000 and 1980 nominees. They have to worry about the party's interest, their careers, and local considerations.

[2rth2pwr]

12. Why would they listen to either one of them?

[AZBlue]

23. Possible. If they won't listen to the voters, why listen to a VP and Pres?

[Alii]

149. Great video...

though I posted that I would like to have seen 100,000,000 views there.

It should be required viewing for every man, woman and child in this country. Hopefully many might even understand it.

Maybe you should begin a thread with this video as the basis. Might be getting lost here.

[melody]

24. I'd listen to them in a second over anyone named "Clinton" n/t

[jackson_dem]

50. Thankfully the "netroots" does not represent the vast majority of supers

[melody]

63. The vast majority of SDs are leaning Obama (to the point of clinging to him)

The only way Hillary can hope to win is through manipulation and blackmail.

[Andrea]

213. Actually no.

It's a plurality, not a majority even, let alone a "vast" majority. Over 300 are still undeclared.

[melody]

217. Actually, yes

Plurality or majority, no one is discussing "declared SDs", we're discussing *leaning*.

Despite Hillary's wishes to the contrary, the SDs will move toward the presumptive nominee.
That is Barack Obama, which everyone else understands beyond Hillary and her more blind
supporters.

[Andrea]

241. Oh, I see

Well, discussing "leaning" is a little too imaginary for me. In most cases, "leaning" is based on rumors or someone's idea that they know what is in someone else' s head.

[melody]

249. That's always we have at this point regarding the future

Even the pledged SDs can change their minds, so I wouldn't put too much hope behind them.

The SDs will go where the electorate goes. And that's to Obama. He is the nominee, whether you like it or not ...
and whether I like it or not.

[Andrea]

251. The SDs can change their minds,

the pledged delegates can change their minds. Still, if they come out and say who they are endorsing, that is more reliable than other people guessing who they are leaning toward.

The fact that they can all change their minds is one of the reasons that it is incorrect to say "he is the nominee". He may be the nominee. I think the odds are stronger that he will be than she will be.

I don't understand why so many people are going around stating things like fact, as you did above, when they are not fact. They are suppositions, hopes, possibilities, maybe even probabilities, but they aren't facts. Is it that they are trying to convince everyone else that it's true? Is it that they don't understand the process? Is it some brand of "positive thinking"? I'm sincerely asking and would really like to know.

Just to make it clear where I'm coming from, I do not support either Clinton or Obama. I think they are both very weak candidates. Out of our original eight candidates, there were four I favored over either of these. Furthermore, the behavior and statements of some supporters on both sides has me very worried about the future of the party.

[melody]

253. Yes, but that "changing" can go either way -- however, they WILL bow to the will of the electorate

And that has already been decided, whether one likes it or not.

[Andrea]

255. I wish you would answer my question

You seem like you might be able to explain this to me. You see, you did it again above when you said, "they WILL bow to the will of the electorate".

How do you know that? Or do you really know that? Why did you say it like it's a fact when it's really an unknown?

Some will bow to the "will of the electorate" as they understand it. Some won't. No one knows how many will go which way. Considering that there is discussion about whether the super delegates are even supposed to do that, how can you be certain? There is an argument opposed to that which says, why were the super delegates created if they are just supposed to rubber stamp the electorate? Doesn't that make them redundant?

Another interpretation of the role of SDs is that they are there to prevent another disaster like McGovern. That is much more plausible to me, considering that they were written in to the party rules in the aftermath of '72.

Furthermore, it's pretty hard to know what the "will of the electorate" is this year. Only a few states had voted before six of the eight candidates were effectively gone. There were calls by Limbaugh and others for Republicans to cross party lines and screw with our results. The MSM has been anything but fair in their coverage. At different times, both Obama and Clinton have been unfairly favored by the media, while the other six were mostly ignored and completely marginalized. The caucus system never gives a true indication of the voters' preferences because so few people are able to participate. Then you have the rampant problems with the various electronic voting machines. I don't think these two remaining candidates necessarily would still be in the running if we truly knew what the will of the electorate is. I think what we have here are two candidates that were favored by the media because they make for interesting television, and were favored by the right wing because they will be easier to beat than certainly Edwards would have been, and probably easier than Biden, Dodd, and maybe Richardson.

So, can you explain to me how you have come to the conclusion that Obama "is" the nominee, and that the SDs "WILL bow to the will of the electorate"? I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for answers.

[melody]

269. I've answered it. Many times. You seem to want to see a possibility that is highly unlikely

... if not downright impossible.

If you need so desperately to believe in it, please do so, but that doesn't make it real.

Now have your last word and let's put this thread to sleep.

[Zachstar]

34. Because Gore is not some random movie star.

He is a hero in raising awareness in climate change and uses his political experience to aid in change.

He has actually done something and his word means alot.

[americanstranger]

13. Wow.

The end may be in sight.

- as

[panader0]

17. While this would be great

I'll believe when I see it. I wonder if it would be enough to make her quit?

[samdogmom]

19. Somehow I just can't see Bill listening to Al.

I'm curious to see how this plays out.

I'm tickled to see Al elevated to "party elder"--where does that leave Bill?

[POAS]

92. I'm so confused

I thought Hillary was running and would be the one to make the decision about dropping out, but you talk about Bill not listening to Al. Does Hillary need Bill's permission to stay or drop out? That's sounds like a sexist position your taking!

[samdogmom]

102. Yikes!

Ummmm...you know I just thought Bill was involved in the campaign decisions.

Okay, maybe he isn't. Then, I stand corrected.

(Yeah, right!) Okay, that's my evil side talking...I'm trying to redeem myself here.....but give me a break...the Clintons are in this together. I have no doubt that if Al talks to Hillary, Bill hears what he says! And, I still don't think Bill is going to "take orders" from Al!

On Edit: I'm a woman--so I doubt I'm being "sexist". I think I'm being realistic!

[POAS]

107. What about being a woman

makes you immune to having sexist attitudes?

[samdogmom]

116. The fact that I'm of the sex suffering all of the "sexist" slurs, attitudes, etc.

I just want to state clearly that as a woman--when things happen you can judge very quickly the root of the problem. I'm 50+ years old--so I've lived through the height of the Women's Rights Movement--and I have to say many complaints that are attributed to "sexism" actually belong in the "incompetence" pile.

Sorry...If you're competent--sexism NEVER enters the picture!

[POAS]

125. So you never have a low

opinion of men because they are men and you have never assumed sexism when it didn't exist?

[samdogmom]

133. No. And here's why....

I worked for an engineering firm with a boss from South America. (He was quite "old-fashioned" in his treatment of women.) But I was dang good at my job (thank you very much) and my boss recognized this fact and actually celebrated it. I never once felt anything but respect from my superiors or those equal to me and even all the employees below me on the corporate food chain.

We had another female employee (hired at the same time as me) and she was a real "work of art"! Anyway, she did suffer tremendously at the hands of the company. But she was truly in over her head on the job, she was an idiot, and I think the criticism was deserved! There were male employees who suffered the same fate at the time as well. Trust me...competence RULES. If you can do your job--no one sees your sex, color, age, or lifestyle!

At least that's my experience!

[lonestarnot]

176. Spoken like a true repiglicon!

[Andrea]

214. Aanecdotal evidence and atypical experience

I'm speaking for the millions of competent women with concussions from hitting their heads on the glass ceiling.

[POAS]

227. Well said Andrea

It's sort of an Ostrich (head in the sand) argument isn't it. I never saw it so it doesn't exist. Yet at the same time she doesn't even bring up Hillary in her post, only writes about Bill listening to Al as if Hillary is an afterthought.

More to your point about glass ceilings, I have worked in factories for 35 years now and have heard some variation of the meme "a woman can't do that kind of work" countless times in those years.

Sexism (like racism) exists in all aspects of life and work but it doesn't help to end it when we look for it as the motivation for every action or when women deny it when it is real, even to the point of self-denial of their own attitudes brought on by years of societal conditioning.

[Andrea]

242. Right back at you!

Thank you.

[POAS]

226. Well you completely miss the point

I wasn't asking you about your resume.

I asked about your opinions regarding men. Specifically, have you ever had a low expectation of a man or had a preconception about his motives simply because of the fact that he is a male or have you ever assumed that sexism existed where it did not.

Please note that I emphasize ever because you seem to claim some sort of immunity to having sexist thoughts and ideas based on the simple fact that you are a woman.

If you would rather, I can recount endless tales of witnessing both sexism and racism in the workplace to counter your anecdotes.

[Heathen57]

120. Bill has spoken for Hillary

before when he vetoed the idea of her going for the governorship of NY. HE stated that there was no way she would consider that.

You are looking for sexism where none exists. That kind of thinking can cause you to become very 'bitter".

[POAS]

126. Youe confusing me even more

A man vetoing something his wife wants to do is not sexist?

I hope your not getting bitter with that attitude of yours.

[Heathen57]

219. You seem to misunderstand

or maybe I didn't say it right. I wasn't making a judgment call on if Bill doing that was sexist or not. IMO it is. I was just pointing out that he has already done so and apparently with her permission since nothing else was ever said about it.

FWIW, I am against one spouse speaking for another without their consent. When my wife had a tubal ligation, I had to sign a paper giving my permission for the surgery to be done, even though it was a life saving measure (long story). The ONLY reason I signed it was that they refused to allow the surgery to proceed without it. I took it into the pre-op room and asked my wife for her permission to sign since she was the one affected.

[POAS]

228. Some people

seem to thing of them as interchangeable parts they are not, nor should they be considered in that context.

Whether Bill and Hillary are acting in sexist ways is almost besides the point though. I was trying to speak to the expectations of others towards them in this campaign for President.

In this case the O.P. specifically mentions Bill as probably not listening to Al without any mention of Hillary. That suggests that Gore and Carter would talk to Bill about getting out of the race instead of to Hillary. Certainly Hilary would consult with her spouse before she makes such a decision but the decision must be hers and hers alone.

[IntravenousDemilo]

160. Well, for the moment...

...Bill is just a candidate's spouse.

[ekwhite]

188. Playing golf with George Bush Sr? N/T

[GoneOffShore]

262. Playing Fish with Poppy Bush?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[crankychatter]

56. o fuck sniffa

I blew snot on my keyboard

you're not allowed to do that

[sniffa]

85. At least you didn't spew latte on your Prius

:D

[Andrea]

215. That's disgusting

You are talking about fellow Democrats. If you claim they aren't really Democrats, I'm going to point out that they ARE human beings.

[sniffa]

230. Oh the humanity!!!!!

:cry:

[Cha]

22. Riiiiiiight! like hilary and bil will

do anything they say..I'll believe when it's done.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Two more people who don't matter to Clinton.

[usregimechange]

26. She won't listen but the rest of the supers will

[jackson_dem]

35. Perhaps. Although Gore has a personal history with the Clintons

He isn't exactly a neutral party and supers will be aware of this.

[Zachstar]

27. Al gore saying somthing will likely end the race. He worked hard since 2000 and has alot of respect

I suspect tho that al is going to want to alteast let it play out past the 13th of May and more likely past the 20th

However if they are going to say something I suspect it will be before June because if it goes into June Clinton may announce that she intends to take this to the Convention no matter what and then if they announce it will cause chaos.

However, We need to work like this is not going to happen. Gore endorsing Obama will case a firestorm and the chance of it happening is sort of low. Obama can win even without the big endorsement if we continue to work hard!

Phonebank, Donate, Phonebank!

[NJSecularist]

30. Please Al and Jimmy, put her out of her misery. n/t

[Zachstar]

36. political misery you mean

[NJSecularist]

57. Which ever. n/t

[Zachstar]

75. No you HAVE to be careful how you talk.

Otherwise it could do little more than encourage the Clinton supporters to continue the crap.

[NJSecularist]

81. Put her out of her presidential misery or her political misery. I didn't mean anything else. n/t

[jazzjunkysue]

185. "Political oblivion " was the term used in the article. I'm OK with that.

[nichomachus]

31. Tell them to wear flak vests and helmets. This isn't going to be pretty. n/t

[polkajello]

87. A titanium catcher's cup !!!!

Hi8llary's wearin' steel toed shoes.

[AtomicKitten]

38. Oh, hell yes!!!

[C_U_L8R]

39. Al, Stop this Crazy Thing !!

[grantcart]

41. wish it were a better source

[Tinksrival]

55. I'll second that.........

Bunch of horse hockey, if ya ask me.

[saltpoint]

181. True. We'll have to see what becomes of this.

[Bensthename]

42. Do it and do it now Carter and Gore. This is getting ridiculous

She is destroying the party.

[2rth2pwr]

45. Hurry before Obama implodes completely!

[Bensthename]

51. Implodes, nothing.. Obama is always cool and collective.

You think he was blowing smoke and PA workers arent bitter? Read this.

http://www.reliableplant.com/article.asp?pagetitle=Manufacturing%20job%20losses%20cripple%20growth%20in%20Pennsylvania&articleid=11398

[2rth2pwr]

60. Obama says he regrets impact of his remarks about "bitter" small-town Americans

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173355267416&path=&s=

In the interview, Obama was asked whether he would apologize to small-town Americans who were offended by his quote in San Francisco.

Obama said: "Well look, if there - obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that.

[Alexander]

53. Implodes? He's 10 points ahead of Hillary. If he's imploding, what's she doing?

superimploding?

:rofl:

[Yael]

46. How reliable is this source?

[BlueIdaho]

62. Very.

[crankychatter]

47. I think you should post the whole damn article... this is VERY nice, thanks

k/r

[Scurrilous]

48. K & R

:thumbsup:

[still_one]

52. If so, I hope Carter has the brains not to meet with Hamas until after the general election

He can do whatever he wants, but if he wants Obama to win, he should cool that discussion in my view

[crankychatter]

66. won't hurt him at all but nice spin

Carter is like eighty... if he wants to move to New Guinea, live in a shack and convert the locals to Taoism... nobody gives a shit....

the Eccentricities of our elder statesmen and Political Gentry are tolerated... ESPECIALLY NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNERS

Look at Nixon in his retirement years... good grief, he was lionized like Reagan... getting his China Creds once a month in some glossy rag or other, and living on his island like G/D Napoleon.

Look at Bill Clinton.... slipperier than a boiled peanut, getting million dollar checks for running his mouth.

[still_one]

90. It wasn't meant to be a spin. I am not against a dialog with ANYONE

but right now if you don't think that would hurt him, it would.

It would NOT be like Reverend Wright, which was taken him out of context, this would different

Carter can wait until after the election. In fact if Obama gets in, I have no doubt ALL parties will be included, but it means nothing if he doesn't get in, and if you think there is a lot of Hillary haters out there, Carter has even more. The Iranian hostage situation and all kinds of unrelated issues will be thrown out

In my view, if Carter meets with Hamas before the GE, and then he endorses Obama or vice versa, when they ask Obama about it, I have no doubt that he will say Carter should NOT have met with Hamas.

If you are an Obama supporter, he doesn't need that distraction right now

Incidently, even if he meets with them, he does not have any ability to directly change policy, so the meeting would not even be policy oriented

Oh by the way, I do think Carter IS aware of the unecessary controvesy it would cause, and will either meet secretly or not at all

and I am an OBAMA SUPPORTER

[ekwhite]

192. You wouldn't happen to be from NC, would you?

"Slipperier than a boiled peanut.." That's pretty slippery alright.

[cbayer]

59. Let me make sure I've got this straight.

If a brit says something that supports Clinton, that person is a POS that has no right to comment on American politics. If a brit says something that supports Obama, that person is a sage whose every word is truth and can't be questioned.

I just wanted to make sure I understand.

[Zachstar]

69. People have noted that it is rumor.

And rumor it is. This has nothing to do with the upcoming primaries and actually harms Obama a but because if it is widespread, some people may assume Obama has won and will go back to doing what they did before instead of phonebanking.

This is rumor.

[cbayer]

79. I see your point

and respect your previous post encouraging people to not let their guard down and keep doing the groudwork that will win this election. That's the kind of positive position we need more of around here.

[bluerum]

70. There now - that was not so hard now was it??? Take another dose of

rose colored glasses, cheer, shout, badmouth the hill and repeat the mantra in the morning and in the evening before going to bed. Everything will go swimmingly.

[cbayer]

86. Mr. cbayer says that a nice cup of tea cures everything.

Perhaps DU should have tea-time twice a day where we lay down our arms and sip a cup. I'll have mine with sugar and milk.

:toast:

[bluerum]

96. Just milk for me please.

[SwampG8r]

190. be nice to cbayer

ive had conversations here with him and he is not one of the crazy people .if he asks a question and it sounds snarky then you need to see if there is a little truth to the snark.h can be exasperating but he is definitely a good guy

[Spider Jerusalem]

111. You really ought to read the article...

they quote an 'unnamed source' close to Carter as their source. This is a British paper reporting something they were told by an American, not a British reporter weighing in on their own.

And for that matter, I don't happen to agree that citizens of other countries have no right to an opinion on US politics. (Elton John has the right to his opinion; hell, he maintains a home here in Atlanta, and his partner is an American citizen. So he's definitely entitled to have an opinion; anyone who says otherwise is being foolish. (And I say that as an Obama supporter.)

[cbayer]

119. I read the entire article.

I was making the point you make in your second paragraph. Elton John was eviscerated on this site for supporting Clinton and making comments on American society. His "sources" about misogyny are real and I bet he can name them for days and days (as well as all his sources about homophobia).

I just find it fascinating how people here will kill the credibility of one source then turn around and endorse another source with the same credentials.

[mythyc]

61. K&R. Gore has more auctoritas in his pinky than the entire Clinton family and candidacy rolled tog'

and the supers know it. A Gore-Carter endorsement of Obama she will not recover from.

[WillyT]

65. GOOD !!!

Grab the garlic, and let's drive that stake!

Was that over the top?

:evilgrin:

[PM7nj]

68. Interesting... this story isn't in the US media... but the Scottish.

Isn't this also the paper that printed Samantha Power's off the record comment?

[SoonerPride]

Yes.

To me that might indicate they have sources inside Obama's camp.

[Spider Jerusalem]

95. The US media have an interest in maintaining the illusion that HRC has a chance.

It's good for ratings, after all.

[delicatessen]

155. Obama supporters want soo bad to let the world think that Gore loves Obama

it would be ok if a rumor turned up every day to the effect that "Gore loves Obama" without citing evidence, transcripts, videos, interviews, etc.

It's always someone saying that Gore thinks or says something.

[Roxy66]

72. I hope they see her in private...and then endorse OBAMA!!

My dream come true...finally. Now if Gore could be President at the same time.

[tabasco]

78. Yay! I wonder if Jimmy and Al are as disgusted as I am with what the Clintons have become.

I'm guessing even more disgusted than myself, and I puke when I see how corrupt the Clintons have become.

[bhikkhu]

82. This would be welcome news!

I just hope its not like the many-times-rumored Edwards endorsement of Clinton.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

84. If only................

[quakerboy]

88. It would be nice

But as with anything else in the realm of politics, I will believe it when I see the results.

[mdmc]

97. Thanks guys

I love those guys:kick:

[Fyddlestyx]

99. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Ichingcarpenter]

100. Two Nobel Prize Winners........say "Give it up Hillary!"

Oh, and two Presidents also.

[Zachstar]

103. I hope history notes that Gore lost only due to errors in the system.

Gore really is the elected president of the United States. It is just too bad big names had other plans.

[Frank Booth]

109. Thank God. Someone needs to stop this nihilist in Dem's clothing

from destroying our party for her own personal retribution.

[solito]

110. I don't think this story is true

I haven't seen any news about Gore, at least wanting to do this.

[TragedyandHope]

113. This is the paper that brought us the "MONSTER" quote

That should tell you all you need to know about their journalistic integrity.

[dailykoff]

118. That would be a courageous and thankless contribution.

I hope they can pull it off.

[shayes51]

124. Always looking to others.

:shrug:

[shadowknows69]

128. You're the last person I'd expect bullshit from kpete

So if you believe, I believe. I just hope it's soon so we can get on dismantling the McCain machine.

[BlueIdaho]

131. Here's how it works...

Party elders recognizing this protracted primary season has outlived any usefulness and now threatens to pull the party under turns to Carter and Gore to bring this silly season to a close. The PA primary is held - HRC wins by 5 and Carter and Gore come out for Obama - that begins a steady drum beat of SDs adding their voices to the chorus making it statistically impossible for HRC to win - short of an assassination. HRC makes a brave statement ending her campaign and throwing her support to Obama.

The only question is will you follow your candidate when she tells you to support Obama?

[Yael]

137. She has yet to thank her supporters/voters in states she has lost

and you think she will publically endorse Obama?

[crankychatter]

143. I hadn't heard that one exactly that way... it IS scandalous

good grief... who IS this person?

thanx

[Yael]

146. In all fairness, she isn't acknowledging the contests at all

Every 'loss' speech was all about moving forward. Not one peep about congratulating the winner (as all of the other candidates did without fail) much less a shout out to the volunteers, supporters and voters in the state.

[BlueIdaho]

151. She will endorse Obama

if she wants a future in the Democratic party. That will be a privately delivered message.

[SoCalDem]

134. It won't matter..

To many in the party, they are seen as "losers"..and have been marginalized.

I have a feeling that the undeclared supers are waiting to see which way the wind is blowing, because they aspire to an appointment or a job somewhere, and will wait until the last possible minute... or they would have declared already..

The democratic party is not known for its generosity of spirit to "former candidates" who have ended up on the losing side..

Unless enough declare, to put him at the 2024 mark, she will stay in...and even if he got to the 2024 mark, I can see her side filing lawsuits over FL and MI..

Her shoes will be carving grooves in Pennsylvania Ave, as she clings to the bumper of his limo...while it heads toward the inauguration:)..She'll be wearing the yellow pantsuit..and waving to the crowds:)

[Yael]

138. Is that like your 3rd sinking ship picture

or are you rotating them daily and I am just missing them?

:rofl:

[SoCalDem]

139. I rotate them.. I also have another new one for Literary fans.,.

haven't used it yet :)

[Yael]

140. Bwa!

Nice collection.

:thumbsup:

[SoCalDem]

141. Forgot one I just made

[Yael]

144. *snort*

:rofl:

[madrchsod]

145. i really doubt that

although both men do not like bill, i really don`t see them endorsing anyone...i wish they would stay out of it

[mckeown1128]

148. That's a pity...

I have such respect for Gore. If true, I am going to hate to see him demonized. I will cringe as they call him sexist, elitist, and power hungry. Gore is one of my heroes. What a shame that he will have to go through so much just to make an endorsment.

[delicatessen]

152. Obama supporters love rumors

They actually believe that Gore and Carter secretly called the Scotsman and told its reporters that they were conspiring against Hillary.

What else can you expect from those who use Daily Kos diaries written by anonymous diarists are source?

[Eurobabe]

174. Nice try

5 posts, would you be a hillaryforum.net fan? C'ya, you have no cred here.

[Catherina]

211. Rats! I wanted to to have some fun!

The mods are so fast :rofl:

[bobthedrummer]

153. k&r

[Arkana]

154. I don't see this happening.

[kwenu]

158. It's time for Hillary to go. There is no benefit in allowing her to stay and continue to destroy the

likely nominee. No one is ignoring the math including the the superdelegates.

[AX10]

162. Not this crap again.

Gore has made it CLEAR that he will let the voters decide the nominee.

[KingFlorez]

166. They won't do that

I don't think either Carter or Gore want to be in the position of ending this race before all the primaries are over, otherwise they would have spoken up by now. I don't think any person should try to use clout to end a primary, let the voters decide.

[crankychatter]

202. Obama trounced McCain in Nat'l Polls till Clinton went Berserker

then his numbers went down, while she only succeeded in driving her own negatives up

every minute this thing drags out it hurts the Party

Obama has a clear ability to turn polls around and WIN

Diminishing his campaign to the ten short weeks between the Convention and the General Election is POLITICAL SUICIDE for the Democratic Party

Thanks, but fuck THAT

those are the facts... no spin, nothing personal, just the facts

The voters HAVE DECIDED

Do you want to being saying President McCain for the next four years?

I can only surmise that you do.

[Eurobabe]

172. Oh she'll just whine and complain the BOYS are being mean to her.

After this latest stunt, I hate Hillary even more than ever. It's time to bring out the duct tape and multilayer plastic wrap should she get the nomination. :puke: :puke: :puke:

[truebrit71]

178. That is excellent news!

.

[jackson_dem]

201. lol at this entire thread. Gore and Carter have zero authority to dictate the nominee

From this thread you would think they are some sort of smoked filled room national party bosses.

[Divine Discontent]

203. she will force the two of them to appear together, which is fine

that's my guess.

I cannot believe she's went on this long, but the main reason it's been permitted by the top dozen or so well known Dems is because she is after all, the former First Lady of the US, and her husband is the former President of the United States - that alone gives them the ability to do as they please in deciding if she stays or goes - I'd HOPE she drops out and doesn't make them really send the Superdelegates to make dozens of announcements on the day or day after they announce.


YES, I'M BITTER!
I made a bunch of I'm Bitter items, they're in the DU marketplace with pics or you can go to www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable and click on the big BITTER? picture.

[Stand and Fight]

205. This will not bode well for my view of the party if this happens.

Were this to happen, I would seriously consider it an insult and an affront. I would consider leaving the party over this sort of chicanery.

[Major Hogwash]

212. Let me tell her, I'll break it to her gently.

Here's your bookbag, try not to throw it across the room.
And here's the pass key to your room at the Democratic National Convention in Denver this August.

Sorry, you'll have to pay for your own flight, we're only paying for the nominee's flight this year.

[Why Syzygy]

218. Oh wow! What a blow.

I'm really sorry that HilLIARy seems to crave a knock out punch rather than the graceful exit.
Pity.

[travelingtypist]

220. If these two can't get through to her, nobody can.

I was thinking the Party leaders -- Reid, Pelosi, Dean -- but it may take the higher stature of former President Carter and the Goreacle, and that might not be enough to penetrate her, "It's my turn, goddamn it" haze.

[Neshanic]

221. I don't believe it. Gore would never hook up with that imbecile Carter.

[PM7nj]

247. You're disgusting.

Carter is anything but an imbecile. I can't believe you would say that. What kind of Democrat are you?

[Divine Discontent]

259. apparently not a very strong one! or an informed one!

Carter is a wonderful human being that respects rights for all, and is a testament to the goodness in our party - that poster is either a juvenile, or a 'fan' who really is just in love with the idea of "CLINTON", and not really concerned with our plight.

[Raine]

222. PLEASE let this be true. nt

[quickesst]

229. Congratulations....

Obama is racking up the quitter's endorsements. I'd rather back a candidate who won't fold under a little, or a lot of pressure, and if Gore and Kerry are backing Obama, you can be sure, that at the first sign of difficulty, their recommendation will be to "quit for the good of the country." It's what they do, and if either one of them had grown a spine, we wouldn't have suffered through the last seven+ years(Gore), or at least cut the misery in half.(Kerry) Thanks.
quickesst

On edit: Want to know what "stupid" is? It's using the word to describe half the Democratic Party, you know, the half Obama will need to become POTUS. Now that's stupid.

[sniffa]

231. zzzzz

:boring:

[BumRushDaShow]

232. K&R

The sooner this happens the better. Enough with colluding with and even outright supporting the enemy and bringing the Democratic Party down!

[Name removed]

234. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bensthename]

243. So Carter is going to let McCain win.. Fantastic.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

235. The comments are edifying.

:rofl:

[DrFunkenstein]

245. As Long As Clinton Runs A Classy Campaign She Should...Oh, Wait

Nevermind.

[JitterbugPerfume]

246. I am an Obama supporter but

I feel so bad about this! I wish she would save what small amount of dignity she has left and drop out before the intervention.

[Stephanie]

260. Thank God.

[Vapor Trails]

263. I'll believe it when it happens n/t

[NightWatcher]

267. I think has heard the voices. Why else would she talk about Gore like that