Obama's remarks gives Clinton an opening

[Marnieworld]

Source: yahoo/ap

MISHAWAKA, Ind. - A political tempest over Barack Obama's comments about bitter voters in small towns has given rival Hillary Rodham Clinton a new opening to court working class Democrats 10 days before Pennsylvanians hold a primary that she must win to keep her presidential campaign alive.

Obama tried to quell the furor Saturday, explaining his remarks while also conceding he had chosen his words poorly.

"If I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that," Obama said in an interview with the Winston-Salem (N.C.) Journal.

But the Clinton campaign fueled the controversy in every place and every way it could, hoping charges that Obama is elitist and arrogant will resonate with the swing voters the candidates are vying for not only in Pennsylvania, but in upcoming primaries in Indiana and North Carolina as well.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080412/ap_on_el_pr/obama_clinton

---

For the life of me I cannot understand what was offensive about what he said. He was talking about people who have lost their jobs and been disillusioned by the system becoming bitter. How is that not a reasonable response? And these same people vote against their best interests by voting for the latest manipulation- They'll take your guns away, or let's stop gays from getting married, not anything that can actually improve their lives. All he was saying was that it was a challenge to get people to believe again, not be bitter, that their lives can change for the better. Makes sense to me. where is the controversy?

[Beregond2]

1. Uh huh.

And how many "openings" are we up to now? And how well have the others worked?

[Nitrogenica]

2. LOLS "opening"

[samdogmom]

3. Me? I think Clinton found it offensive because he lumped Bill in with

Reagan and the two Bushes. Didn't he talk about 25 years of do nothing administrations when it comes to helping the middle class? It's true--but I doubt Hillary liked the honesty and I'm guessing Bill went ballistic. (I read something recently on DU that Bill is very concerned that his legacy isn't going to look very good in comparison to Barack's and that's why he's fighting so hard to get Hillary into office. He wants to salvage his legacy. Go figure!)

[PSPS]

4. You have to admit it was a stupid thing to say

Sure, it might make sense to you and me. But we're not the standard in politics. I'm surprised someone even as green as Obama didn't know any better.

[Marnieworld]

6. how is being empathetic to their experiences and perspective stupid?

I found it compassionate and informed not elitist. This just seems like such a manufactured scandal.

[DUgosh]

5. Chosen words poorly

= misspoken

[TommyO]

12. Taken in context of the entire paragraph, there was no misspeaking going on

Hell, I had an over-reaction against Obama when I heard about bitter Pennsylvanians, until I read the entire quote. I've reposted it here for your education


When I go around and I talk to people, there is frustration, and there is anger, and there is bitterness and what’s worse is when people are expressing their anger, politicians try to say what are you angry about? … Somebody asked me, well, how are you gonna get votes in Pennsylvania? What’s going on there? We hear that it’s hard for some working class people to get behind your campaign, why is that? I say well, look, they’re frustrated, and for good reason – because for last 25 years, they’ve seen jobs shipped over seas, they have seen their economies collapse, they have lost their jobs, they’ve lost their pensions, they’ve lost their health care, and for 25-30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said we’re gonna make your community better, we’re gonna make it right, and nothing ever happens, and of course they’re bitter, of course they’re frustrated. You would be, too, in fact many of you are… Nobody’s looking out for you, nobody is thinking about you! And so people end up, they don’t vote on economic issues because they don’t expect anybody’s going to help them, and so they end up voting on issues like guns, and you know are they going to have the right to bear arms, they vote on issues like gay marriage and they take refuge in their faith and their community and their families and the things they can count on, but they don’t believe they can count on Washington...

[Babel_17]

23. I'm confused as to the exact quote

The Huffington Post has an entry with a different transcript. Were there two speeches?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

[Petrushka]

29. Hm-m. Interesting! Educate us more, TommyO. Tell us what he said about bitter Pennsyvanians

while he was fund-raising in San Francisco early in the week. Please don't just quote what Senator Obama said--you know--after the fact.

What did Senator Obama misspeak in the first place, in San Francisco, only to find himself, days later, embellishing in Indiana?* Or--you know--what had he meant to say when, not surprisingly, he misspoke (?) the following:

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustration."**



_________________________________

*See the quoted material
posted by TommyO above.

**As Obama supporters often say:
"Google is your friend." So,
try: (Obama San Francisco
fund-raiser bitter cling to guns)

[Marnieworld]

32. you forgot to include the insult

I really don't see it. How is mentioning people voting based on guns, gay marriage, or anti immigrants an insult? Have these not been wedge issues in recent elections? seriously where is the insult?

[Petrushka]

35. It's an insult to common sense when a politician attempts to use some sort of pseudo-psychoanalysis

to explain, before the fact, why certain hard-working folks might not be voting for him.

It is expecially insulting when that same politician attempts such an explanation from a distance, as he did in San Francisco when he talked about bitter Pennsylvanians . . . for the amusement (?) of those who attended a closed fund-raiser.

So . . . :shrug:

If any bitter Pennsylvanians feel insulted enough to not vote for Senator Obama, it'll be because--you know--as HE said:

"...THEY cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain THEIR frustrations." (emphasis added)

Anyway . . . :eyes:

Please note that any mention Senator Obama made about "people voting based on guns, or gays, or immigrants" would have been from something he talked about later in the week--in Indiana, not California . . . and that's a whole nuther animule misspeakin'.

[Marnieworld]

43. He was responding to a question

And I doubt anyone was amused. I suggest that you find out about a book called "What's the Matter with Kansas?" that discusses this phenomenon further. I still don't see the insult and guess what? I actually am a bitter Pennsylvanian. :hi: My husband and I belong to gun club too. :D

I have noticed a pattern with those who find this insulting though. They really need to just have it be one phrase with ellipses all around because if you include anything contextual at all his point is clear and there is no imaginary insult.

[asjr]

7. Next time we have a presidential

election I think the candidates should all get on a stage with buckets of mud and throw mud pies at each other. That would take less time and money. There was nothing offensive in Obama's remark. That is what just kills me. If each one has to taste each word before using them it all becomes meaningless. I am a Clinton supporter but this is getting so carnival-like it is embarassing. They are all becoming cartoon characters. We, the people, are being treated as if we are all in the 2nd grade and must act like it. Do they all think we are stupid? I don't like being talked down to as if I am a child who must have everything drawn on paper so I can understand it. At this point I don't care which Democratic candidate wins. I just want it OVER!

[Zhade]

25. You should care. You support a proven liar.

NT!

[catnhatnh]

8. But the Clinton campaign fueled the controversy....

...IN EVERY PLACE AND EVERY WAY IT COULD.......nuff said.

[blayne]

9. Late breaking news?

Is this still late breaking news?

[WoodyM]

10. Obama says he is going to unite us.

How is he going to unite us if he cannot realize when he is actually insulting people? It is not the “bitter” that is the trouble; it is the way he said people reacted to it. Evidently, he judges these people to be what he has termed “typical white person.”

[TommyO]

13. There was no insult in Obama's speech

Read the quote I posted, it includes "bitterness" in context, not just the part from the Clinton/right-wing talking points.

[murielm99]

15. It certainly is insulting.

I have lived on the outskirts of a small rural community for thirty years.

He lumps us all together, stereotypes us and talks down to us. It is more of the "us" versus "them," more of the divisiveness that he is so good at using, and hiding under his charm.

I don't need a South Sider telling me what it is like to live in a rural community, telling me what I feel, or why I feel it. And I would not have such a negative reaction to him if his campaign had not begun the divisiveness on day one.

[TommyO]

18. Tell me, which piece of the following is insulting?

We hear that it’s hard for some working class people to get behind your campaign, why is that? I say well, look, they’re frustrated, and for good reason – because for last 25 years, they’ve seen jobs shipped over seas, they have seen their
economies collapse, they have lost their jobs, they’ve lost their pensions, they’ve lost their health care, and for 25-30 years Democrats and Republicans have come before them and said we’re gonna make your community better, we’re gonna make it right, and nothing ever happens, and of course they’re bitter, of course they’re frustrated.

[Petrushka]

30. See Reply #29. (eom)

[murielm99]

34. To echo the poster below:

See reply #29.

And don't tell me what I feel and think as a small town person. Your experiences are not mine.

[InfiniteNether]

36. Then vote for McCain so he can take your job away. Maybe he won't hurt your feelings

by "talking down" to you while he does it.

[murielm99]

40. Why are you at DU?

We do not tell people here to vote for McCain or any other republican.

BTW, your snarkiness only echoes the attitude of your candidate. No wonder I don't support him.

[SpiralHawk]

11. Horseshit

Obama spoke truth. Hillary can whine all she wants. It will just make this former Clinton supporter more bitter about her tactics.

[pauldg0]

37. I don't trust either....

...I think your easy going for Obama.

Edwards is an honest man and he doesn't support either of these empty suits.

[leaningprog]

14. Hillary disfigures competitors to make herself attractive.

This primary has really shown what was only a suspicion.
The Clintons desperately needed the nastiest and most
degrading campaign that the Republicans could scrape up
to throw at them. This is for two reasons, it hides the
fact that their methods are almost identical, and it is
their primary source of power. They are surfers, and they
need waves before they can operate.

Obama is a huge problem for them, he runs too clean a
race and their methods are plainly seen and not able
to be blamed on tit for tat with the other party.
In addition, he is pursuing leadership, instead of
focus groups, triangulated, poll driven, surfership.
He has taken them away from their game plan.

As brilliant as they both are, it is obvious they
left the White House and moved on the New York to
power up and cash in. (New York was tragically devoid
of Senate quality native people you know.)

We know elitist people when they see them. They are
the people who carried the elder Bush's NAFTA through
the gauntlet without insuring provisions to keep from
gutting the Midwest Manufacturing Heartland were in
place. And now they are living in New York and telling
us to look hard at Obama, or in fact, probably anyone
else but them. They get uglier by the day and I am not
sure people in the Midwest are going to be fooled or
forget it soon.

The Clintons to me are running to put in place the hooks
for the next generation of elites they run with:
The Lobbyist Elite
The International Elite
The DLC Elite
The New York Financial Elite
The New York and California Media Elite

We see how things are, but when they blame shift
and lie about it, it really gets old for us middle
states that made things folks.

[Marnieworld]

16. this should be its own post

You make good points that people should see.

[Diane R]

17. I agree...make this post it's own thread.

[aaronbees]

41. Welcome to DU

And you make some great points there.

[qanda]

42. Wow! Welcome to DU

I look forward to reading more of your posts. This one is certainly great and well-thought out (hope that didn't sound too elitist) LOL

[ramapo]

19. Clinton chooses issues poorly

This is what she latches onto? Just when I think I can't get any more disgusted with her.

Obama's remarks were basically fine. Best choice of words? No. But give us a break here, taken in context with his complete presentation, there is really very little to get into a tither about.

[santamargarita]

20. Obama is exactly right! We are very bitter and full of RAGE!

And fuck anybody that thinks otherwise!

[NoodleyAppendage]

21. The controversy is the corporate power hegemony vs. populism.

Hillary, McCain and the rest of the pro-corporate ilk will not rest until the Obama populist movement is crushed. They did the same to Dean. The people must not be allowed to control their democracy...that's the controversy.

J

[Zhade]

26. Man, you aren't kidding. It's pretty clear that populism is the death knell for neoliberalism.

Thank goodness for that, and Obama's campaign.

[wisteria]

22. I am from Pa and I was not insulted by what Senator Obama said. Clinton however,

I feel looks like a phony pol coming out and claiming that Pennsylvanians aren't frustrated or angry. Many people in Pa have every right to be bitter and frustrated. Her husband had eight years to help out the people of Pa and he failed them on jobs and prosperity. These people have in the past believed in what phonies like the Clinton's promised and they got noting in return for their votes. She looks crass and vile going after this Obama misspeak as far as I am concerned. This makes me more energized then ever to work against her in Pa.

[Zhade]

24. Opening? She wishes!

This isn't even as outrage-inducing as the manufactured Wright "scandal", and he bounced back from that nonsense.

[brindis_desala]

27. Too bad Hill-- the people's eyes opened first

and they're on to you...

[still_one]

28. Gosh, I guess if the "media" says so it must be? I guess those whose jobs are gone

overseas, or those who have declared bankrupcy because of healthcare needs, or those who have lost their houses must be quite glad to know that mccain and Clinton believe that they have nothing to be bitter about

Just like when the republicans were debating in Michigan, saying the economy was going through a small bump in the road, but essentially everything is good shape, and staying the course would be the right thing to do

Steel workers and auto workers, you have nothing to complain about

Be happy

I am sure glad there is no inflation, at least that is what the government is telling us

When was the last time you bought food or gas? Oh wait, we don't include those in the inflation numbers

Socialism for corporations like Bear Stearns is fine, but not for the shmuck who has lost his house, and is up to his neck in credit card debt

[Petrushka]

31. See Reply #29. (eom)

[Yes We Did]

33. She must believe that working class folks are as dumb as the people who supported Bush

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

38. Lissen to the tapes ,you must lissen

to the tapes! The recordings. Behind the sceans ,those comments. The reason for the quicky apologey after having refused to alter his view to it. The behind the seans tape. Obama is international on this blunder. It,s all about his behind the curtin opinion.If he offended anybody, indeed.Tuesday you shall be reading all about it in length.

[Veilex]

39. I read through this and couldn't help but be reminded...

of all the times the Clintons have indicated that what Obama says are "Just words"...but now if there is a possible gaffe, those "Just word" suddenly have weight...double standards much?

In any case, I while I can see how a person could twist the intent of his words into something they were never meant to be, I don't think its realistic to do so in this case. It would be uncharacteristic of him to say something intended to be offensive...in that light I cant believe that just now all of a sudden he's out to bring a slight against anyone.

Though I know there will be those who will see it that way because they choose to do so and nothing and no one will change their minds.

To those people I would strongly suggest that you get over yourself.

[Vinca]

44. Excellent point. I had forgotten the "just words" remark. nt

[Deny and Shred]

45. Is it me, or is the $109 million couple calling the black guy elitist totally ironic?