Everyone really should calm down about what Hillary is doing...

[loveangelc]

Of course Hillary is going to jump on what Obama said. This is politics and he should not make statements that he wouldn't say in front of voters. He will still be the nominee, but she needs to win PA big and this is what she sees as her opening to do so. Frankly the shots and gun praising and everything imo make her look kind of ridiculous, and I think this will be taken care of in the debate. But I am not sure why some people are acting surprised that Hillary would jump on this opportunity....and really, Republicans will probably be much worse than anything Hillary has done or is doing....

in politics you jump on your opponent's vulnerabilities. I wish he went after her harder and understood that a little more (bosnia, columbia trade, etc). She does.

[tokenlib]

1. She can jump on it--but the Mayhill Fowler "plant" angle is disturbing...n/t

[2rth2pwr]

3. Mayhill probably dropped a mickey in his drink to make him screw up.

[golddigger]

48. Lmao...It's called the 'Bitter Hope' mickey.

:rofl:

[ruggerson]

5. You do realize

that if anyone tries to run with the "kill the messenger" routine, it will reinforce the notion that Obama says stuff secretly in private to rich people that he doesn't want anyone else to hear about.

It's probably not wise strategically.

Having said that, since I'm a Hillary supporter, I hope Olbermann runs with just that angle.

[Eurobabe]

21. I am glad more people are taking notice of this "plant."

[rodeodance]

91. many people have NOT had the Kook-AID--they are not into spreading LIES about a DEMOCRAT.

[FrenchieCat]

92. You are soooo funny!

I'll be glad when you are on our side again! :hi:

[guruoo]

22. Hillary made me do it.

[bigtree]

23. the jezebel

leading Obama to sin

[leftofcool]

29. Hillary made me say a dumb thing

[GarbagemanLB]

2. She can act like a Republican...she just shouldn't expect to ever be on a Democratic ticket.

[dkf]

Ditto...

[ericgtr]

15. Exactly

No better than 527

[Hieronymus]

38. Yes

[TheDonkey]

4. She's disgusting.

I wish Obama would hit her hard on Snipergate. He mispeaks and she freaks out, she flat out lies and the media and Obama give her a pass

[MonkeyFunk]

7. she's not freaking out

she's just running a campaign against him.

Just like he's running against her. You guys really are blind to reality.

[Auntie Bush]

53. They don't know politics when they see it. They think he's running for church lady.

Just wait till the GE! This place is going to be frothing at the mouth!

We'll have to give some internet junkeys the jobs of being virtual ambulance chasers rescuing those with real heart attacks when they see some REAL attacks on their chosen one by some real RWers...not the mild soft stuff and fluff Hillary is using. They ain't seen anything yet!

We'll be right here watching all the outrage. It's going to be entertaining so I've already bought a good supply of pop corn. Obamites think they're the ones who will be cheering but they'll end up peeing in their pants as they duck from the crap flying their way by that little old nasty RW lying machine.

I can just hear the flaming of CNN and MSNBC when they start defending McCain and throw Obama under the bus. They built Hillary up...tore her down...built Obama up...and they'll tear him down....and build McCain up. They don't realize this is just a horse race to the corp media.

[TheDonkey]

55. that Hillary is happily feeding into

I agree the media is only out for themselves but Hillary is happily feeding into this crap. You support printing out "I'm not Bitter" stickers? That alone is grounds to be removed from the party imo. To say it is snarky, ignorant, and mean-spirited is taking it lightly.

[Auntie Bush]

59. Don't be a donkey! Oh wait! You already are.

I said that? "You support printing out "I'm not Bitter" I don't remember.
If I did, is that grounds for being removed from this party? I think not...this is a Primary...Did you forget?

[TheDonkey]

70. yes, I am a donkey

I thought Democrats were. But this influx of elephants and dinos into the party under Hillary's slime tour across the country is making things a little confusing. :)

As for the "stickers" I meant to ask that as a question. Do you support those stickers? They are slime and inappropriate. Should Obama pass out "Where were the snipers?" stickers and that be fair game. What sort of politics do you support??

[Auntie Bush]

85. Frankly I haven't heard of the stickers you're talking about.

But on an Obama thread they were making and posting banners that said..."BITTER SUPPORTER FOR OBAMA". Is that OK? Funny how O supporters have been sliming/raking Hillary over the coals for a couple weeks...but when Obama makes a terrible goof...H supporters are accused of being on a slime tour across the country and are a bunch of Denos...just because we don't support O. With hypocrisy and outrages like that...how can we ever possibly have party unity. Oh I forgot...O only wants real Republicans to vote for him...we Dinos aren't good enough for him.

[Auntie Bush]

83. I'm from Vermont...and I'm not bitter...even all the kids have moved away

to find some good jobs. The difference is we never had any good jobs...we're content with lots of cows...our churches and guns.
Want to come visit for awhile? We have deer and turkey in the back yard and a bear raiding and destroying our new bird feeder because one destroyed the last one. Oh and we have a pair of Mallards in the pond. I apologize for not being bitter. I'm broke now and always have been...doesn't seem to matter. I'm a happy camper! Are you one of those unhappy bitter souls that Obama was referring to? I'm sending a virtual sympathy card your way...can't afford to send a real one. Get a job and drag yourself up by the bootstraps...it won't hurt and you'll feel less bitter. Maybe you should buy yourself a gun. It will give you a sense of empowerment! Now quit whining about Hillary. Obama was wrong and made a HUGE mistake!
Equal to the Sniper remark...but we don't whine bout it 24/7. Buck up!

And by the way...why was it I should be removed from the party? :shrug:
I'm not bitter enough?

[loveangelc]

10. I don't understand why he didn't do that. I really don't.

he cannot be 'above it all' in the general election. You have to pounce on your opponent's vulnerabilities, I wish he understood that a little more...

she does.

[SwampG8r]

14. no no no

thats the old way
we dont want the old way anymore

[InfiniteNether]

66. It's cuz he doesn't want to be seen as taking a cheap shot. Good move.

There isn't anything really he could add to it. The implication of the story was clear.

[dkf]

6. Bad behavior demands a strong response.

Rationalizing doesn't excuse what she is doing.

[guyanakoolaid]

8. You mean how she's trying to drag Dems to the right-wing?

No, sorry, all anger towards Hillary is justified. She doesn't get it and never will. She needs to lose not just the presidential nomination, but her Senate seat as well.

Republicans may be worse, but that does not excuse Hillary taking pages from their dirty-play book. She will rightly suffer at the polls.

[guruoo]

31. ROTFL!

Stole the playbook from right under your noses, eh?

[guyanakoolaid]

36. Not the one titled "Rules and Ethics", the one called "How To Win At Any Cost"

She had Mark Penn get Karen Hughes' copy at lunch

[guruoo]

40. No, I will not meet you after school.

[guyanakoolaid]

45. fresh!

[Tarheel_Dem]

52. You don't know how right you are, Rovian indeed.......

Discussed here, with credit to DU'er DianeR:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5478861


"The Rove Legacy

By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 15, 2007; Page A03

As he packs his desk just 15 steps from the Oval Office, Karl Rove says he will not join any 2008 presidential campaign. That's just as well because none of the Republican candidates presumably could afford the association even if they wanted his strategic smarts. Besides, none of them is running the campaign quite the way he would. The candidate who seems to be adopting his style and methods the most so far? Hillary Rodham Clinton.

At least that's what Nicolle Wallace thinks. The former Bush White House communications director, who worked closely with Rove, said that Clinton "has almost operationalized the whole idea of turning your weakness into strength, message discipline that is almost pathological -- she does not get off message for any reason -- and never skipping an opportunity to exploit her opponent's weaknesses."

<snip>

The Clintons recognize the skill Rove has brought to politics and admire his craft, if not his ideology. Just days after the November 2004 election, Bill Clinton pulled Rove aside at the dedication of the William J. Clinton Presidential Library in Arkansas. "Hey, you did a marvelous job, it was just marvelous what you did," Clinton told Rove, according to the book "The Way to Win: Taking the White House in 2008," by John F. Harris and Mark Halperin. "I want to get you down to the library. I want to talk politics with you. You just did an incredible job, and I'd like to really get together with you and I think we could have a great conversation."

<snip>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

[mamalone]

60. I'm sorry.........

but the very thought of Bill Clinton saying these words to Rove makes me physically ill... I mean literally sick to my stomach. It's so hard for me to believe that these are the people I have admire for years.

When I think of all the times I have defended him, I could cry.

[Tarheel_Dem]

78. I share your disappointment, but sadly I've come to expect it from

them now. Hillary's done, and she may even find herself with a strong challenge for her Senate seat.

[mamalone]

89. I'm from NY....

and you can believe I will be actively searching for another Dem to support in place of her.... and I am a 51yo white woman, supposedly her base! My parents have been lifelong Dems and are politically very active in their part of NY and they are thoroughly disgusted with her as well. When I was last at their house I commented that I "just wanted her to go away" meaning drop out of the primary race and my dad said her "never wanted to see her ever again"... going so far as to state that he feels she no longer has a place in American politics. I was just speechless.

For years, my mother has had a picture of her with Hilary at some kind of meet-and-greet thing on her study wall... she took it down last month.

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. I agree with your Dad. If I never see or hear from either of the Clintons

for the rest of my life, I'll be okay with it. New York is a huge place, with a lot of good "Democrats", and I think someone should offer a serious challenge to her, and I'd be willing to help fund her opponent.

I know Michael Bloomberg is a Democrat, turned Republican, turned Independent, but I think he would be wildly popular with New Yorkers. Because, sadly, I don't think RFK, Jr would run against her.

[InfiniteNether]

67. Right on, brother. Hilarious name, too.

[BenDavid]

9. I say, great for HRC. I say great that Fowler released the audio and

I cannot wait till the video comes out later this week and we all get to do this one more time. Obama, obama, you elitist.

I say obama should now come out with a new campaign sign. Obama standing there with his head turned up with his nose in the air and underneath the following words:

SNOB
IT'S AN ELITIST THING
YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND


AND NOW Obama is trying to put a spin(AGAIN) on his own recent words and make it look like he is a victim. He is trying to get the media to report that he only said the people in PA are bitter and they have a right to be. Sorry Obama, it is not going to work.

You(OBAMA) said:

“And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

These are YOUR words, not guilt by association like Rezko, Ayers, Wright and the others, this is YOUR view, words out of YOUR mouth. Obama, did you say you were sorry? Nope, you tried to act like it is Hillary’s fault then tried to blame it on McCain. You stood by what you said and acted arrogantly about it. There is NO SPIN on this, Obama, you said it, you meant it and you should apologize for it, not try and blame other people for it. This one is on YOU Obama! Stop trying to spin it like you actually care for the people, like you are a victim as these words say something totally different. These are NOT “just words.

OBAMA, TIME FOR YOU TO GO’

[dkf]

11. Of course you think this way, you are a Hillary supporter first then a Lieberman/McCain supporter

second.

I'm on to you.

[guyanakoolaid]

13. Again, the irony of multi-millionaires calling Obama "elitist" is completely lost

The irony may have spilled from head wounds caused by sniper fire.

[2rth2pwr]

51. There are minimum wage workers calling Millionaire Obama elitist.

[SwampG8r]

17. seems kind of odd

a multimillionaire calling a working stiff an elitist
but on hillary bizzaro world.......

[Window]

20. I hope you stay around BenDavid, DU needs your comic relief.

:rofl:

[mtnsnake]

12. Hillary explained it fine, showing she is more concerned w/Dems winning in November

Of course she's using the situation to her advantage in the primaries. Who wouldn't? But she made it clear that the biggest concern she has with the comments is that she doesn't want Republicans to gain an edge from this, no matter who said it and no matter who the nominee is. Hillary rightfully said that Democrats had some great people running in recent elections, but hinted that they were perceived as being elitist and it cost us. She doesn't want Dems to be perceived that way anymore.

[guyanakoolaid]

16. WTF? So to accomplish this she calls Obama an "elitist"???

That goes beyond irony to plain double-speak.

[loveangelc]

18. I'm definitely not one to defend Hillary, but she said his words were elititist I thought...

Look, what he said he shouldn't have. It gives Republicans and opportunity to paint him as an elitist which is what they were planning on doing. He's of course, not elitist, and he can talk about how he's not, since he didn't grow up in wealth.

[mtnsnake]

32. Exactly. Everyone knows Obama didn't mean harm, but he can't be giving these gifts to Republicans

for future use in the General Election. One of the main reasons they won the last two elections is because the rural states had have the decided advatage because of our goofy electoral college system. Republicans are always convincing the people in rural areas that Democrats are elitists who look down on everyone else. We just can't further alienate them any longer because the metropolitan areas are not enough to swing elections for us anymore.

[MoonRiver]

46. loveangelic, I appreciate your rational position on this matter.

It's a breath of fresh air. BUT, I differ in your analysis that because Obama didn't grow up in a wealthy family he is de facto, not an elitist. Many wealthy people grew up poor and many are some of the biggest snobs on this earth (remember Leona Helmsley). Also, Bill and Hillary Clinton are being called elitists by Obama supporters on DU, but Bill grew up in extremely poor conditions, and was also raised by a single mother. I don't think Hillary was poor but neither was she extremely wealthy as a child. She was probably upper middle class.

I'm just saying that one can definitely be an elitist and have been raised in poverty.

[loveangelc]

56. Well he not only wasnt wealthy as a child, he isn't very wealthy now.

Of course, compared to most Americans, he is wealthy, but compared to both of his opponent's, he is much less wealthy right now than either of them. He really hasn't become upper middle class until recently. Both must be careful in calling him an elitist; but both (or at least Hillary) can say his WORDS were elitist, which they probably were, even though they weren't meant that way imo. I think this would be taken so much differently if he were saying ths openly to PA voters and not in San Francisco. He has to be careful because he was close to saying religion is something people have because they are desperate, even if he didn't mean it that way. But like I said, I think this may very well be settled by the debate on Wednesday. I don't think values will be the number one issue this campaign. McCain has said that bad economics is only psychological. I actually think the Republicans could be making a mistake by using the same 04 gameplan of painting their opponent as someone out of touch with middle american values, because I think most people are sympathetic to liberal ideas than 4 years ago, because of Bush. ..

[MoonRiver]

58. I wonder how wealthy Hillary Clinton was when she was 46.

I suspect she was about where Obama is now.

Of course, being a former president inevitably brings in big money, kind of like winning the Nobel Prize.

[jackson_dem]

71. Yes. The Obamas are wealthier than the Clintons were in the 90's

Bill Clinton was the least wealthy president in a century.

[MoonRiver]

79. Thanks jackson dem

That's what I remember.

[jackson_dem]

69. William Henry Obama isn't wealthy?

Damn. You know how having four Ivy League degrees between a couple is a ticket straight to poverty. :sarcasm:

[cornermouse]

63. Reality check. If it wasn't actually wealth it was pretty darn close.

The grandmother who helped raise him was a Vice President in a bank. They lived in Hawaii which is not a cheap place to live for more than one reason. His grandmother sent Obama to a school which cost more than people working at McDonalds in this area make and then she sent him to Columbia University and Harvard. He did not grow up in poverty. Far from it.

You shouldn't have to make things up to make him fit whatever mold fits the occasion.

[Laurab]

77. It was not at all "close" to being wealthy.

I'm not sure where you get your information, but Obama was far from wealthy growing up. His grandfather was not very successful, his grandmother HAD to work. Obama won scholarships and took out loans for the colleges he was INTELLIGENT enough to get into, despite being relatively poor. No one "sent" him to Columbia or Harvard - he just finished paying off his school loans last year.


"You shouldn't have to make things up to make him fit whatever mold fits the occasion." - indeed - you should take your own advice.

[cornermouse]

84. Wikipedia, USA today, CBS and multiple other sources.

Look it up for yourself. They're pretty consistent.

Madelyn Dunham was the Vice President of a bank. She sent Barack to a private school with 9 tennis courts and an Olympic sized pool which currently takes $16,000+ a year for tuition. I don't know what the equivalent was back when Barack was in school but you can bet it wasn't cheap. Hawaii is a very expensive place to live because almost everything has to be shipped in from the mainland and because so many rich people want to live there. Madelyn was probably the stronger person of the two, but far from being unsuccessful, Stanley managed furniture stores. They were not poor. One of the articles said she also helped send him to Columbia and Harvard. Barack did not have a poor and deprived childhood.

[Laurab]

86. Nor did he have a wealthy one, as you imply.

I didn't say they were poor, I said they were not wealthy. They were probably middle-class to upper middle-class, at best, depending upon whether Stanley was working or not.

I really don't want to "look it up", because I have already read all I need to know about the family's circumstances. The grandparents probably helped as much as they could, even sacrificing to send their grandson to a good school. That's what parents and in this case, grandparents do. My parents did it, too, and we were FAR from wealthy.

I believe the colleges Obama went to were of his choosing, and he worked and took out loans in order to to attend them. His family did NOT have the means to "send him" there. You attempt to portray him as a spoiled rich kid, when he was not in the least, is just wrong. I responded because no one else called you on it.

Some people get into those schools through merit and hard work - Barack Obama is one of those people. I "helped" my daughter go to a good college, even though I was a relatively poor single mom at the time. I drove her there, helped unpack her stuff, and sent her money on occasion, when she needed it. She was lucky enough to get some grants, and she'll be paying the rest back for a long time. But, still, I "helped send her there."

[cornermouse]

88. $16,000+ a year tuition.

That's more than I could do and (so far at least) I am part of the shredded remains of the middle class. His grandparents were upper class.

[mtnsnake]

27. Wadda ya want her to do? Lie to the press about it? His comments were elitist, whether or not he

intended them to be that way. Instead of only listening to the self-righteous spin you hear on DU, try listening to what she actually said and how she framed it. To do that, try getting away from DU once in a while. It might open your eyes up.

[guyanakoolaid]

28. She framed it like the right-wing warmongering panderer that she is

[mtnsnake]

30. No she didn't. She framed it in a way that looks out for the best interests of Democrats

Stop exaggerating.

[guyanakoolaid]

35. You're telling me to not exagerate, and that Hillary has Dems best interests at heart

in the same breath

:rofl:

[mtnsnake]

37. I heard her explain it fully today. Did you? She definitely was looking out for our best interests

on one hand, with her explanation of what Obama meant, and on the other, yes, she's going to take advantage for herself, too. Who wouldn't.

[Nedsdag]

19. In the immortal words of Cynthia McKinney.

"I will not sit down and I will not shut up!"

She needs to be taken to task for what she said and I hope Obama rips her a new asshole in the debate on Wednesday.

[crankychatter]

25. Gawud I love Cynthia... thanks

I wasn't smiling and now I am

[guruoo]

39. No, he'll let others handle the hillaryhate for him

[Cha]

24. These talking heads on cnn don't agree..

And neither do I..

Stephanie (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-12-08 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here's a transcript - great commentary, they were all disgusted by it >
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/11/clinton-mccain...

BLITZER: All right, Gloria, he's already being hammered by Hillary Clinton and John McCain for that matter for supposedly being an elitist and speaking ill of the people of Pennsylvania by suggesting that the economic problems there are causing them to become bitter and buying guns and becoming xenophobic and all of that. What do you think? Is this a real issue out there?

GLORIA BORGER: Well, Hillary Clinton said today, you know, I don't see bitter people out there, I see struggling people or whatever it is, but she said the people aren't bitter. But I think the people are angry – and maybe Obama's terminology was in artful but I think he's expressing a sentiment of mad-as-hell-voters, not going to take it anymore, that we've seen throughout this election. And that's why perhaps voters are saying over and over again that they want to change. So I think Hillary Clinton is trying to make him into the elite candidate but he's talking about people being angry.

BLITZER: All right, and Hillary Clinton responded to the Obama comments this way; Jeff. Let me play her little sound bite.

HRC: It's being reported that my opponent said that the people of Pennsylvania who faced hard times are bitter. Well, that's not my experience. As I travel around Pennsylvania, I meet people who are resilient, who are optimistic, who are positive, who are rolling up their sleeves. They're working hard every day for a better future for themselves and their children. Pennsylvanians don't need a president who looks down on them.

BLITZER: All right, Jeff. What do you think?

JEFF TOOBIN: I think that is so ridiculous. I mean that is not at all what Barack Obama said. I just think this is an example of how a campaign between the two of them can be purely destructive. And not elevate either candidate. I mean, Hillary Clinton is clearly distorting what Obama said. And by the way, what Obama said is factually accurate. It's been true throughout history that people who have economic problems lash out against various others. I mean, I just think it is an embarrassing for the Clinton campaign to hang on this as if it's some sort of gaffe by Obama.

BLITZER: It's not just the Clinton campaign, Jack it's also the McCain campaign. They issued a statement saying it's a remarkable statement and extremely revealing it shows an elitism towards and condescension towards hard working Americans that is nothing short of breathtaking. It is hard to imagine someone running for president who is more out of touch with average Americans.

JACK CAFFERTY: Really? And this is from John McCain?

BLITZER: No, this is from Steve Schmidt a senior adviser for John McCain.

CAFFERTY: Look, Jeff's right. They call it the rust belt for a reason. The great jobs and the economic prosperity left that part of the country two or three decades ago. The people are frustrated. The people have no economic opportunity. What happens to folks like that in the Middle East, you ask? Well, take a look. They go to places like al Qaeda training camps. I mean, there's nothing new here. And what Barack Obama was suggesting is not that the people of Pennsylvania are to blame for any of it. It's that the jerks in Washington, D.C., as represented by the ten years of the Bushes and the Clintons and the McCains who have lied to and misled these people for all of this time while they shipped the jobs over seas and signed phony trade deals like NAFTA are to blame for the deteriorating economic conditions among America's middle class. I mean, I'm a college dropout and I can read the damn thing and figure it out.

BORGER: You know, in this case the Hillary Clinton campaign and the John McCain campaign have the same goal and that is to portray Obama as this sort of (inaudible) elitist who doesn't understand the real working class people or independent voters. And so they're both on the same side on this one and it's obvious why.

BLITZER: Go ahead, Jeff.

TOOBIN: I just think it's remarkable that Barack Obama, this guy who grew up in a single-family household with no money, who lived in Indonesia, who came from very modest upbringings, somehow he's the elitist? That's really a pretty extraordinary sort of contortion of his background. I mean.

BORGER: It's that Harvard, Yale thing.

CAFFERTY: He did not make $109 million in the last eight year did he?

BORGER: Right.

VIDEO..
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/11/235050/410/205/494075

[Bonobo]

26. We do NOT have to accept it as business as usual from one of our own.

We are Democrats. We do not have to accept it.

[guruoo]

41. Then you should understand how Hillary supporters, feel, right?

Oh, nevermind.

[mtnsnake]

33. K&R

[Bensthename]

34. He didnt go after bosnia, columbia trade, etc. because ...

He knows he has won this and does not want to alienate the Clinton voters..

She sees this as an asset for her and is using this to her advantage. It is one thing to debate policy and jump on one those weaknesses. It is another to knee cap your own party member that is most likely going to be the nominee.

I'm sorry but the fact that she is out to make him unelectable for the Gen election blew all respect I have ever had for her.

[guruoo]

42. Yeah, he let's others do that for him.

[Bensthename]

43. You expect every one to sit on the fence and watch Hillary lie and manipulate this nomination?

[guruoo]

44. That's like asking: 'So, when did you stop beating your wife'.

[Bensthename]

47. point is Obama is being civil while his surrogates call her on her bs

Surrogates can't scream as loud as the candidates any way.



It's too bad this has gone this long to cause such bitterness.

[stillcool]

49. everyone should really calm down about...

everything..right? Who cares what these candidates do, or say? One of them is only going to be the next President of the United States! And then we will get the 'new stories' about why we are in Iraq, or why we have to bomb country X, or why we are bailing out certain industries, and why we really don't need those rights anymore. No thanks..I don't want to 'calm down' about lying criminals anymore.

[loveangelc]

61. I think he will be fine. In feel as if Hillary will work for him and defend him if he's the nominee.

but they are in the midst of nomination fight. He's ahead and she's behind, so all she can do is attack really...thats her only option. I think we will win this election. Romney and Mccain were saying terrible things about eachother and they have united and Romney's supporters now support McCain. I think the same will happen in the end for Obama. He will reach out to Hillary supporters and Hillary will probably work to get him elected. But the fact is, he can't make gaffes like this and not expect opponents to pounce..

[stillcool]

76. I haven't fallen for...

the media spin in years, so I'm not about to now. "Manufactured outrage" has a short life span..especially with the Obama Campaign's ability to direct the shit whence it came. I'm sick of people on this board using the media's talking points to cover up the lies, and bolster up their already lame arguments. If I wanted to mire myself in a false reality I'd watch CNN. Instead, I read the words as they appear on the page.

Transcript of Obama’s Remarks at San Francisco Fundraiser Sunday
April 11, 2008

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is so we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- to close tax loopholes, uh you know uh roll back the tax cuts for the top 1%, Obama's gonna give tax breaks to uh middle-class folks and we're gonna provide healthcare for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

video links substantiating all the lies stated in the following are provided at the link

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/bill-and-hillary-clintons-top-5-lies-to-voters-on-the-campaign-trail/
Bill and Hillary Clinton’s Top 8 Lies to Voters on the Campaign Trail
#1 Bill Clinton lied to voters at their rallies and said he had been opposed to the Iraq war from the start.

#2 Hillary Clinton lied and said she had been opposed to NAFTA. After an advocacy group sued to have her First Lady records released, it was revealed that she had supported and advocated for NAFTA.

#3 Hillary Clinton lied to voters about a trip to Bosnia claiming she was running for cover and did not attend a greeting ceremony.

#4 Bill Clinton lied to voters about Barack Obama’s Iraq record.

#5 Bill Clinton just completely made up a story to supporters about Obama dismissing the 90s.

#6 Hillary Clinton said she was instrumental in helping bring peace to Northern Ireland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBCmKkLdCuA&eurl=http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/bill-and-hillary-clintons-top-5-lies-to-voters-on-the-campaign-trail/

#7 Hillary Clinton lied to Iowa and New Hampshire voters about whether she would try to count the Florida and Michigan primaries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C08W-jgyLlA&eurl=http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/bill-and-hillary-clintons-top-5-lies-to-voters-on-the-campaign-trail/
#8 Hillary Clinton lied at one of her rallies and said she began criticizing the Iraq War before Barack Obama did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIuCqX52uao&eurl=http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/bill-and-hillary-clintons-top-5-lies-to-voters-on-the-campaign-trail/

[Steely_Dan]

50. Me Too

I wish he went after her harder and understood that a little more (bosnia, columbia trade, etc).

You mean like Biden?

[NJSecularist]

54. loveangelc, with all due respect, you are talking about the general election

I agree with you. The general election should be no holds barred. The Republicans will do anything to win the election. So should the Democrats.

But this is a primary election, and Hillary is actively trying to take down Obama by vile methods when she has very little chance to win the nomination..

[loveangelc]

75. I don't see this as a vile method. If she were exploiting Rev. Wright, imo that would be vile,

this is more fair game. In all honestly would you expect her to not say anything about this? I think many know she probably wont be the nominee, but she's running to win, and she sees this as a way to get her margin bigger in PA and win Indiana. All that I'm saying is that it shouldn't really be that surprising, at least it isn't to me, and I usually have nothing but contempt for Hillary...

[Drunken Irishman]

57. So would you be cool with her using other Republican talking points?

She can jump on Obama being pro-choice, but that doesn't mean it's right. She's using a Republican talking point to hammer a Democratic opponent and that's the problem. Clinton stole this page from the Book of Reagan, tell everyone everything is fine and dandy and that those who are angry and bitter are only that way because of their own doing. Blame the workers, not the problem that causes the conditions in the first place.

[NJmaverick]

62. NO! I will not calm down, what she is doing is WRONG!

[StevieM]

64. This coming from the group of people that jumped on her over "hospital-gate" and pured their

hearts out saying things like "I feel so bad for this family!"

As always, the rules only apply if you're Hillary.

Steve

[NJmaverick]

65. SHE is the one making the mountain out of the mole hill, not her followers

That is why this is why all good Dems and liberals are livid with her.

[jackson_dem]

73. No, the people are. People are offended by it and that is why it has staying power

[NJmaverick]

80. What people? The ONLY ones pushing this non-story are Hillary and the repukes

[rodeodance]

74. i love paybacks.

[FrenchieCat]

93. Good.

[book_worm]

68. Hillary is bitter and grasping and will do anything to try and derail Obama because she feels the

nomination belonged to her. Of course she will exploit this and do anything else. Then when Obama is nominated she will do what she and her husband did when Lamont beat Lieberman in CT, endorse him and do as little as possible to help so that she can run again in 2012 if Obama loses. With the Clinton's it's only about one thing--attaining power.

[jackson_dem]

72. Ironic. Obama did nothing for Lamont but went all out for Lieberman

[democracy1st]

81. Have No problem being in a Political fight with the rightwing

I just didn't know Democrats would resort to those tactics

[gcomeau]

82. Ummm... no.

That attitude... "this is politics" used to excuse a total lack of integrity or class, is exactly what allows the political system in this country to operate in the gutter year after year after year... election after election after election. Campaigns pull the most outrageous smearing crap and what do you hear in the media? Do you hear them reporting how low people are going? Or do you hear them reporting "ooooh, do you think this will get traction?" I think we know the answer. And it makes us furious, doesn't it... well, until it's someone people on our side want to win doing it, then all of a sudden we're supposed to adopt the exact same attitude.

<shrug> "oh well, that's politics".

No. Not going there. We damn well deserve better than that and we have a right to demand it. This isn't about her "jumping on what he said" this is about her deliberately taking a line of attack we have been rightfully villifying the republicans for employing and endorsing and legitimizing it just so she can maybe score a few points. This is about her tearing down the Democratic frontrunner not on the issues or his qualifications, but with a personal attack portraying him as being against the people of a state she knows damn well he's on the side of. Then following it up with that outrageous who's more of an American speech she gave. That's where we're going to go now?

And this is after her efforts in Michigan and Florida. It is one thing to try to make a case to try to get their delegates seated because she thinks it will help her out, even after she agreed to abide by the ruling against them and then reversed course only when it became necessary for her... but she decided to do it with "Obama doesn;t want your votes to count". "Obama wants to disenfranchise the people of Michigan and Florida.". Oh it's all Obama's fault your delegates aren't being seated.

1. Bullshit. Obama didn't make them break the rules and Obama didn't enforce the consequences when they did.
2. These are goddamn battleground states in the GE and she's deliberately turning people against the frontrunning Democratic candidate in the end stages of the campaign. Not by making arguments she's more qualified, but with "Obama doesn't like you guys, he's out to get you!". With arguments that are stirring up people against Obama on an emotional level that they're going to be less inclined to let go of in the GE and she knows she's doing it and doesn't care.

So no, let's not calm down. No, let's not shrug this off as "oh well, it's politics, we expect to get shafted by the candidates". You do that and you get what you're asking for, more of the shaft.

[Morereason]

87. In darwinist politics and unhealthy dogma it works that way

Many of us are sick of our fellows accepting this kind of selfish crap as a "normal" way of life. It may be what we have seen to often, but it is also the politics of "death and destrution".
I wish people would stop being so accepting of the abusive mass culture. We need to move on to better ways of thinking