What's wrong with what Obama said?

[mogster]

I've only read it translated into Norwegian, and don't get the controversy?

Here's some more translations from the same article, this time into English:

"The election in Pennsylvania will probably decide Hillary Clintons destiny in the fight for nomination. Barack Obamas sloppy comments about the working class in the mid-west came as spot on for Clinton.
(...)
(The) disclosure could not have come at a better time for Clinton.
(...)
Clinton and McCain immediately went public and accused Obama for elitism, but the senator defends his comments, although recognizes that he could have used other words to express himself better."

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/presidentvalg-2008/artikkel.php?artid=505693

Clinton/McCain 2008 anyone?
Did they make a joint statement or was it as separate candidates? This is how it looks when printed by the media in my country, and let's face it; the media here were never huge Obama supporters to begin with.

Tell you what? This is just the same way Kerry was treated in 2004, when he spoke about the soldiers who got stuck in Iraq. And before that, Dean when he 'screamed'. And probably hundreds of other Democrats we don't even know the name of, because they never made it past the localized version of this type of swiftboating.
Pick up on a statement that can be twisted to mean exactly the opposite of the message it was intended to convey, then rally the media dogs and 'very concerned citizens' and off you go. The obvious loser is not Obama, but you, the voter. Because the lie replaces truth; of the candidates left with chances to win Obama is clearly the most 'working class minded' person.

And ex-presidental wife Clinton and that bugger from the elite party accuses Obama of elitism? ;-)

[butterfly77]

1. Nothing...

They are desperate and are jumping on any word he says and will try to blow it up to gigantic proportions but, it will backfire..

[MrSlayer]

2. Nothing, unless you're an idiot.

In that case what he said becomes twisted into some sort of insult. It's ridiculous and sad.

[tritsofme]

15. To quote the late-great Adlai Stevenson "That's not enough, madam, you need a majority!"

Lots of voters are idiots, and you need their vote too.

There's a difference between being right and saying the wrong thing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Blunt speaking frightens the electorate in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.

They get the Heebie-Jeebies and vote Republican.

[jackson_dem]

4. The condescension. Too bad Obamites agree with it so they can't see the problem

[PVnRT]

7. Do you know what condescension means?

Condescending would be telling people losing their jobs or paying more and more income to the gas companies that they're really hopeful and happy about the future, instead of acknowledging that they are bitter and cynical about Washington.

[jackson_dem]

10. Damn so FDR was condscending?

1) The bitter part isn't the problem. Obamites agree with the rest so they fail to see the problem with what the rest of what he said.
2) The only leader I can think of who adopted pessimism was Carter, who supports Obama. How did "malaise" work for him? FDR is the best example. He kept people hopeful during tough times. You don't talk down and tear people down during tough times, you lift them up. That is real leadership.

[Maribelle]

14. America has faced many hardships and tragedies in her past. Her people have remained hopeful.

Her people have remained proud of America through the worst of times, always looking forward to a brighter future. That's 'The American Way'.

Her people have proudly sang 'God Bless America, land that I love'.

[earthlover]

18. So you don't think there are a lot of people, not only bitter, but PISSED OFF?

[Bensthename]

5. Nothing at all. Especially when you see Bill Cinton said the same thing here: link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYi_qNWdjgw

[Maribelle]

9. Where did Bill Clinton say blue collar workers cling to their guns because they are bitter?

And where did he say blue collar workers cling to their faith because they are bitter?

The enormity of what Obama said escapes his followers.

[Bensthename]

11. Since when did "bitter" become a 4 letter word and worse then angry?

And if you live in rural America you would know the issues of guns and god is what they value and take serious. Spin it how you like but it is the truth.

[jackson_dem]

13. Did they stop going to church or hunting during the great economic times in the 90's?

Of course not. Obama the elitist doesn't get it. Those things are fundamental to small town folks. They don't do it out of anger.

[Maribelle]

17. Had Obama only stopped at the word 'bitter' I doubt he would be in the deep doodoo he is in today.

Sadly, he is in a hole full of it, however. Stop digging.

[mogster]

20. I think he addressed a real explanation to a real problem

And what he really did was speak on the behalf of the people he's accused of having offended.

Kerry, Dean, Obama - all on the side of ordinary folks and people having a hard time. Changemakers. This is just swiftboating of the same type, and Clinton and McCain does seem a bit too close together, don't they? ;-)

[Maribelle]

23. Obama lost handedly the blue collar workers in Ohio to Hillary.

Out on Billionaires Row last week Obama was trying to make excuses for why he is apparently also losing theses in Pennsylvania, in hopes of padding his coffers. In doing so, Obama lied about these hard working Americans. They do not cling to their guns because they are bitter. They do not cling to their faith because they are bitter. They are not racists because they are bitter.

Sorry - - Obama addressed no real explanation to any real problem. Obama attempts to explain away yet another of his boneheaded mistakes with puffy words, twisting at what he actually said turning it into something he didn't say.

[mogster]

25. But the Clinton-McCain proximity fails to register, lol

OK, Maribelle. I don't hate Hillary Clinton, but she's no changemaker.

And when Obama makes excuses I only see media bias and hyperfocus, sorry.

[jackson_dem]

12. He didn't and the reason obamites don't get it is sadly they share his views

Obama's base is the so-called "Starbucks Democrats" and they look down upon "Budweiser Democrats."

[TML]

6. Nothing at all...

This poster I created speaks for itself.

[2rth2pwr]

8. Only if you are a complete moron and backwoods rube Jesus lover.

[merh]

16. There is nothing more controversial than the truth

It was used to try to deflect - go to this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5485534

See his response here, what many try to ignore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow

[mogster]

21. Hi merh

Nice to see you. Thanks for links :hi:

[merh]

24. hello mogster!

:hi:

Glad to see you around these parts, still actively taking part and questioning the insanity of our politics.

I hope the links help, so many try to confuse the issues and distort the messages.

There will be plenty of that in the general election, it is sad that dems are doing it to each other.

:pals: :hug: hope all is well in your world. :loveya:

[mogster]

29. Glad to see you too

I'm fine, hope you are as well :-)

This latest issue is, as we say up here, a storm in a glass of water. Not much more to say really.

Big hug! :hug:

[spinbaby]

19. Nothing.

The trouble is, most people never know what he said. They get a few carefully selected words and a lot of hype about what people say he said.

[Zynx]

22. The problem is that it comes off as a "religion is the opiate of the masses" type quote.

That doesn't fly with most people. The biggest problem was when he included religion. Guns, that was kind of an odd fit. He could have gotten away with the comments on immigration. However, saying that people "cling" to religion is the most problematic part of what he said.

[2rth2pwr]

26. dupe

[2rth2pwr]

27. If you really want to know-

Here is what Sen. Obama said:

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


Here is what Sen. Obama now says he said:


"So I said, 'Well, you know, when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on,' " he continued. "So people they vote about guns, or they take comfort from their faith and their family and their community. And they get mad about illegal immigrants who are coming over to this country or they get frustrated about, you know, how things are changing. That's a natural response."


1. Note how version #1's "cling" becomes version #2's "vote about" and "take comfort from"—as the condescending dismissal becomes empathetic understanding.


2. Note how version #1's "religion" and "antipathy to people who aren't like them" becomes version #2's "faith" and "their family and community" —as fundamentalist xenophobes now become beleaguered folks who band together against the unfairness.


3 Note how version #1's "anti-immigrant" becomes version #2's "mad about illegal immigrants" —as the nativist who opposes all immigrants, legal and illegal, now becomes understandably angry only about those coming here illegally.


4. Note how version #1's "as a way to explain their frustrations" becomes version #2's "they get frustrated about" as the misguided scape-goaters become those who react understandably to adversity.


5. Note no explanation in version #2 for version #1's "anti-trade sentiment"—and no wonder since Obama himself is embarrassed that so far he's voiced far more "anti-trade sentiment" than those he caricatured.


6. Note how version #1's "And it's not surprising then they get bitter" becomes version #2's "your'e" and "you" and "Thats a natural response", as the condescending use of the embittered and distant "they" now morphs into a kindred "you" and the quip "not surprising" becomes the sympathetic "natural."


7. Note how version #1's idiotic logic that Middle-America has only become religious or pro-gun in the last 25 years as a result of job loss is simply omitted.

8. Note how there is sudddenly no "context" for the landscape of version #1: an elite Bay-area audience that is told stories about those Pennsylvanian gun-toting zealots.

[JeffR]

28. Wow that's really damning.

I don't see how this Obama feller's ever going to recover from the force and clarity of your post.

[2rth2pwr]

31. Even his supporters are condescending.

[goodgd_yall]

30. As a Norwegian

I'm not surprised you ask that.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And "media dogs" just about nails it. "Elitism" in this country has much to do with a dislike of intellectuals---thinkers, the educated. Why one would want to heap scorn on an educated and thoughtful human being is beyond me, but it tells you something about the peculiarities of American "culture."