IMO.....Hillary totally agrees with Obama's statements....And that's why her behavior is inexcusable

[Armstead]

This, to me, is the bottom line on Hillary's latest frenzied effort to destroy Obama...and perhaps the Democrats' chances to win this year.

Hillary knows what Obama was saying. And she basically agrees with it.

Obama, by his own admission, used some inappropriate words in his original "bitter" statement.

However, what he was saying was NOT out of the mainstream of Democratic conventional thinking.

Every Democrat with half a brain has been frustrated and baffled about why enough people have voted against their own economic self-interest, and jumped on the GOP CONservative bandwagon, since the 1980's.

And the answer is simple: Democrats stopped being an effective advocate and supporter of economic policies that actually helped the average person. Instead, the Democratic Party adopted various forms of GOP Lite economics and ignored core problems.

And, lacking a compelling reason to support Democrats, too many people gave into the very effective GOP strategy of appealing to their social conservatism.

This is not Rocket Science. Nor is it mysterious. It has been the topic of conversation among Democrats/liberals/progressives for many years.

And an effoirt to fix this problem has been at the core of both the Obama and the Clinton campaigns.

Hillary has been trying to do the same thing he is doing, by trying to lay out an economic platform that does address the problems confronting the middle and lower classes.

So her attacks on Obama the last few days are nothing more than total hypocricy, lies and distortions.

Her only problem with Obama's message is that, overall, he has been successful at putting it into practice, while she is too stuck in the old politics. She wants to be the messenger, but she can't do it effectively.

So she lashes out at him and distorts what he said, and does her very best to keep it in the headlines, in an effort to mortally wound Obama.

In the process, she is reinforcing the "elitist" image of Democrats that she claims to be trying to change.

That's what I find inexcusable about her current behavior. It is needless damage to the Democratic Party -- and if she does succeed in making Obama unelectable, she may well be helping McCain to perpetuate the GOP Domination for another eight years.

[joeybee12]

1. News flash...Barack has made himself unelectable...Yes, we can...

...blame everyone else!

[Armstead]

7. Bullshit. How has he made himself unelectable?

Rather than just repeating the meme, how about some evidence that he really has done or said anything so far beyond the pale.

[Tellurian]

38. Why does Obama continue to LIE about Hillary?

He gave a Press Conference this morning and asked that Hillary tell the Truth. Hillary tells the Truth.
Obama prefers Lying to his audience that Hillary voted for "higher" Credit Card Interest Rates and for the Bankruptcy Bill in a blatant attempt to steal their vote.

The fact of the matter is...Hillary voted "FOR" a ceiling on Credit Card Interest Rates..Obama voted "NO" to a ceiling on Interest Rates..and she "DID NOT" vote on the Bankruptcy Bill that eventually was passed by Congress.

Here is the sorriest of all scenarios courtesy of Obama. Obama has given the RW so much indefensible fodder they can easily attack, he's DOA for the General in November if he is the Nominee and so are we! Obama IS unelectable for this presidency. He will remain so, until he cleans up his act, perhaps in 2016!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5489046&mesg_id=5491860

[Obamanaut]

54. I think she DID vote for the bankruptcy bill in 2001 (which didn't pass)

but did not vote for the similar/same bill four years later.

So what are we saying here? That she liked it one time, but wasn't sure or didn't care the next? And, if she voted for it one time, why was she happy it didn't pass? Would it not have been consistent to vote against it if she would later be happy it didn't pass?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/345/

<snip>
The 2001 bankruptcy bill was intended as a dramatic overhaul of the bankruptcy laws, making it harder for people to eliminate debts in bankruptcy court and keeping wealthy debtors from using their homes as a shield for assets. It was hugely backed by the banking, credit card and retail credit industries. It passed the Senate, 83-15, on March 15, 2001, with the yes vote of Clinton, but because of differences in the House legislation, it never became law.
Four years later, bankruptcy reform finally did become law. Clinton missed that vote; Obama opposed it.

But back to the 2001 bill. Clinton said she was “happy that it never became law.” He says she said, “ ‘I voted for it, but I hoped it wouldn't’t pass.’ ” The thing is, being happy about something after it happens is not the same as hoping along the way that it wouldn't happen. And yet, the latter is how Obama characterizes Clinton's words.
<more>

[Tellurian]

57. Obama choses to deceive rather than clarify.. I see..

This is precisely why he should NEVER receive the Democratic Nomination.

Obama and the Truth are strangers. All the more reason, he is should never be allowed to gain the presidency.

[Obamanaut]

60. Perhaps he simply misspoke. Goodness knows HRC does this

on a regular basis - practically a scheduled basis.

But it's okay when it's HRC, huh.

[Tellurian]

61. What I refereed to is a deliberate misleading statement..

with the intention to mislead the public into believing Hillary voted for the current BK Bill and he did NOT!

I call that "DirtBag" Politics!

[ClassWarrior]

14. So you think McBush is a better candidate than the Clintons?

The Clintons can't beat Obama no matter how hard they try, but McBush can?

:eyes:

NGU.

[cali]

26. newsflash: your opinion is worth very little.

and it's hilly who whines incessantly about how mean all the boys are.

[Cronus Protagonist]

32. Thank God Hillary knows how to distance herself from an idiotic blunder like that

Obama is an ass.

[Armstead]

43. Yes, she just denies she said it and then claim the opposite

A real winner there.

Obama remains consistent. If he screws up, he doesn;t change his position. he acknowledges his mistake and puts it in context. Just like normal people do in adult conversations.

[MethuenProgressive]

2. Right.

BO tap dances all around his comments, defending them, excusing them, explaining them, disavowing them - and you claim Hill agrees? With which version?
:rofl:

[Armstead]

10. As I said above, it's not Rocket Science...What part of what he said do you disagree with?

[MethuenProgressive]

16. You agree with his condescending sneer at Pennsylvania's "peasants"

You're his base, evidently.

[PVnRT]

21. Answer his question.

[MethuenProgressive]

31. Who died and made you Obama?

:rofl:

[PVnRT]

50. Yep

Keep on trollingdancing, Methuen.

[ClassWarrior]

24. Do you agree with her calling the poor "the little people?"

They're "the LEAST of those among us?" You're her base, evidently.

:rofl:

NGU.

[MethuenProgressive]

35. O! Joy! It's make chit up day!

Was this a Lord Obama decree? Do the peasants get to have extra arugula with their prridge tonight?

[ClassWarrior]

39. Okay, show me a link to "peasants." Since you're against "making chit up."

Or are you just against supporters of the nominee "making chit up?"

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

46. Didn't think so. More hypocrisy from the HRC defenders.

NGU.

[Armstead]

29. How about Bill Clinton in 1992? Nomination speech excerpt

"Tonight every one of you knows deep in your heart that we are too divided. It is time to heal America.

And so we must say to every American: Look beyond the stereotypes that blind us. We need each other - all of us - we need each other. We don’t have a person to waste, and yet for too long politicians have told the most of us that are doing all right that what’s really wrong with America is the rest of us- them.

Them, the minorities. Them, the liberals. Them, the poor. Them, the homeless. Them, the people with disabilities. Them, the gays.

We’ve gotten to where we’ve nearly them'ed ourselves to death. Them, and them, and them...."

[MethuenProgressive]

37. He was denouncing elitists like the Bushes.

You're new to politics, Wright?

[Armstead]

41. No I've been around for longer than I want to admit

And he was denouncing the "us vs. them" mood of the country. REad it again....slowly.

Again I ask my original question -- What did Obama say that you really disagree with?

[PVnRT]

52. Everything

Methuen just simply hates everything about Obama. You should know that by now.

If Obama said that the sky on a sunny day was blue, Methuen would call him a liar.

[leftofcool]

3. "she is reinforcing the image of Democrats that she claims to be trying to change."

Didn't Obama just do this with his comments? Didn't his comment just negate the very thing he says he stands for which is HOPE? Obviously it did or he would not have felt the need to explain it away.

[Armstead]

8. Newsflash -- he acknowledged that he phrased it poorly

[leftofcool]

11. I just said that

[SeaLyons]

27. He seems to have to explain a lot of negatives....

To be the alleged candidate of "Hope", why is he constantly explaining his words and affiliations?

[Armstead]

34. How awful...He speaks like a real person

When real people --- i.e. Adults -- talk they sometimes say things in the wrong way.

We've become so used to politicians who only speak in carefully crafted and researched innoicusou soundbytes, that when someone actually talks to us like adults, it is subject to distortion.

Again I ask my original querstion:

What part of what Obama said do you really disagree with?

[SeaLyons]

56. People do not cling

to guns and religion because they are bitter over lost jobs or the economy. Religion is a part of one's core belief system and is a constant through good and bad times. He accused people of bigotry because they are bitter. None of what he said is truthful. It was arrogant and judgmental.

[Armstead]

59. Fer Gods sake...You know what he meant. You are parsing

If Hillary had said the same thing, you'd be clapping and saying "right on."

He made a valid point in a kinda clumsy way. So what?

[SeaLyons]

62. I don't want a "clumsy" President

We've 8 years of that.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

4. Uh Hillary doesn't think PA voters are bitter, she thinks they are STUPID

she thinks they are happy happy happy with exporting our jobs,
being poor,
not having health care,
sending our kids to Iraq.

In fact, she's even considering giving away her $109+ million so that
she can be happy too.

Oh, and McSame is going to give up his 8-10 mansions and trophy wife.

[tularetom]

19. Somebody in the clinton campaign thinks the American people

are predominately inbred, mouth breathing, cousin marrying, gun toting, snake handling rednecks who are stupid enough to love the shit sandwich we've all been fed for the past two decades. Why else would they adopt the same tactics the repubs have used since the days of Lee atwater.

I personally resent this.

I've never married even one cousin.

[Cameron27]

5. I've never heard another Democrat running for office

say that people are bitter so they cling to guns and religion. That's an inexcusable statement for a presidential candidate to make.

[Armstead]

9. You dont think Hillary has said the same thing in private meetings?

The only difference is that Obama said it while someone was secretly recording him.

[Cameron27]

12. No I don't think HRC's said the same thing in private.

I think it's an absurd assumption. Did bitterness drive Barack to Jeremiah Wright? If it did, then he should have said that first before accusing middle America.

[Armstead]

25. How about what her own husband said in 1992?

Tell me how Bill Clinton's 1992 nomination speech is really so different from what Obama has said?

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton's_acceptance_speech_to_1992_Democratic_Convention

"...I was raised to believe the American Dream was built on rewarding hard work. But we have seen the folks of Washington turn the American ethic on its head.

For too long those who play by the rules and keep the faith have gotten the shaft, and those who cut corners and cut deals have been rewarded.

People are working harder than ever, spending less time with their children, working nights and weekends at their jobs instead of going to PTA and Little League or Scouts. And their incomes are still going down. Their taxes are still going up. And the costs of health care, housing and education are going through the roof.

Meanwhile, more and more of our best people are falling into poverty even though they work 40 hours a week.

Our people are pleading for change, but government is in the way. It has been hijacked by privileged private interests. It has forgotten who really pays the bills around here. It has taken more of your money and given you less in return. We have got to go beyond the brain-dead politics in Washington and give our people the kind of government they deserve, a government that works for them....

..The Republicans have campaigned against big government for a generation, but have you noticed? They’ve run this big government for a generation and they haven’t changed a thing. They don’t want to fix government; they still want to campaign against it, and that’s all.

But, my fellow Democrats, its time for us to realize we’ve got some changing to do too. There is not a program in government for every problem, and if we want to use government to help people, we have got to make it work again.....

Now, I don’t have all the answers, but I do know the old ways don’t work. Trickledown economics has sure failed. And big bureaucracies, both private and public, they’ve failed too.

One of the reasons we have so many children in so much trouble in so many places in this nation is because they have seen so little opportunity, so little responsibility, so little loving, caring community, that they literally cannot imagine the life we are calling them to lead.


Tonight every one of you knows deep in your heart that we are too divided. It is time to heal America.

And so we must say to every American: Look beyond the stereotypes that blind us. We need each other - all of us - we need each other. We don’t have a person to waste, and yet for too long politicians have told the most of us that are doing all right that what’s really wrong with America is the rest of us- them.

Them, the minorities. Them, the liberals. Them, the poor. Them, the homeless. Them, the people with disabilities. Them, the gays.

We’ve gotten to where we’ve nearly them'ed ourselves to death. Them, and them, and them.

[blm]

6. She always does this. When she joined Bush's lie against Kerry she knew damn well that

Kerry never insulted the troops, and that the proof of his prepared remarks was indisputable in showing he merely dropped a pronoun.

But, far be it for Hillary to defend another Democrat when she thinks she can score points with the RW by joining their distortions and smears against a good Democrat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Cameron27]

13. Howard Dean said the same thing

in his first comment, so why are you only holding Hillary to the flames?

[PVnRT]

22. Wow! Dean is running this year?

[Cameron27]

23. Is John Kerry?

[PVnRT]

49. No, but Hillary is

...thus blm's comment has a point, and yours does not.

[blm]

33. Which comment? I'm talking about Hillary's track record attacking other Dems

the same way RW does.

[Armstead]

55. Hillary will throw any Democrat under the bus

[BigDDem]

15. "Hillary totally agrees with Obama's statements"

Please provide link.
THANKS!

:rofl:

[ClassWarrior]

18. Her husband does. Link...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/bill-clinton-flashback-al_n_96433.html

:rofl:

NGU.

[Armstead]

28. Yet another link

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton's_acceptance_speech_to_1992_Democratic_Convention

"Tonight every one of you knows deep in your heart that we are too divided. It is time to heal America.

And so we must say to every American: Look beyond the stereotypes that blind us. We need each other - all of us - we need each other. We don’t have a person to waste, and yet for too long politicians have told the most of us that are doing all right that what’s really wrong with America is the rest of us- them.

Them, the minorities. Them, the liberals. Them, the poor. Them, the homeless. Them, the people with disabilities. Them, the gays.

We’ve gotten to where we’ve nearly them'ed ourselves to death. Them, and them, and them.

But, this is America. There is no them. There is only us...."

[BigDDem]

30. Sadly, you're confused

That was from 16 years ago and the wrong Clinton.
That's the best you can do?

[Armstead]

36. Why hasn't Hillary disowned her husband's message then?

You're the one grasping at straws here.

[BigDDem]

42. You say: "Hillary totally agrees with Obama's statements"

to back that up you quote Bill Clinton from 16 years before the statement was made and I'm the one grasping at straws?

Great logic there Einstein.

[ClassWarrior]

45. Here you go, Newton...

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1688794,00.html

Third paragraph.

NGU.

[Armstead]

47. You should make that an OP. It is very revealing

From the link:

There are signs of festering intolerance even among Democratic audiences, noticeably in Iowa, which has seen a surge of Latino immigration in recent years. The Democratic candidates are uniformly in favor of comprehensive immigration reform, including a path to citizenship for those who have entered the country illegally. But they receive sharp — pointed — applause when they say illegals should "have to speak English" before becoming citizens. When I asked Hillary Clinton about that, she said she'd noticed it too and added, "During the 1990s, I cannot remember being asked about immigration... Why? Because the economy was working... And average Americans didn't have to go around looking for someone to blame."

[ClassWarrior]

51. Someone already did. Please K&R it here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5496448&mesg_id=5496448

NGU.

[MethuenProgressive]

40. And it's about renouncing the elitism of the GHW Bush types.

We call them Obama types, nowadays.

[Armstead]

48. No it isn't. Read the full speech. He is referring to "Americans"

But the New Covenant is about more than opportunities and responsibilities for you and your families. It’s also about our common community.

Tonight every one of you knows deep in your heart that WE are too divided. It is time to heal America.

And so we must say to every American: Look beyond the stereotypes that blind us. We need each other - all of us - we need each other. We don’t have a person to waste, and yet for too long politicians have told the most of us that are doing all right that what’s really wrong with America is the rest of us- them.

Them, the minorities. Them, the liberals. Them, the poor. Them, the homeless. Them, the people with disabilities. Them, the gays.

WE'VE gotten to where WE'VE nearly them'ed ourselves to death. Them, and them, and them.

[last_texas_dem]

64. So the GHW Bush types are the Obama types-

but I thought Obama was the new Dukakis? How does that work, exactly?

[GoesTo11]

17. Hillary is an optimist

Obama: "People are bitter about how they've been left to rot by the Clintons and Bushes"
Clinton: "How dare you be so negative. People are happy about how they've been left to rot by the Clintons and Bushes."

[merbex]

20. I couldn't agree more with your analysis

Both Obama and Clinton should talk to the recently elected Democrats in Montana and ask the new Gov. and new Senator if discussing guns and religion in a derogatory fashion gets votes or if it is a deeper discussion about populist progressive economic policies gets a better response.

How hard is it to focus on the economy and leave the moralizing and arm chair analysis( even when I do it myself :) to others?????

[elmerdem]

44. Wake up America

what Obama said was true. I live in KY. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine. He is an organic farmer, fourth generation Kentuckian. We don't often discuss politics, but we discuss ignorance to the plight of local farmers, what good food is, how to keep our forests & water healthy. That would make him a democrat when we agree on these things correct? Not so, even though he's even a Sierra Club member. We were talking about the presidential election & a number of things came up. One, HRC or Obama, either one, would take away his guns. Two, he will vote against whoever supports gay marriage, because it is an uncompromisable part of his religion. Third, he will vote for McCain because the other two will surrender. I was able to convince him through much discussion that these are not the most important issues to vote because of, except the war. I even changed his opinion on that one. He is bitter. He thinks all politicians are the same (they are mostly). He falls back on the things Barack mentioned. We didn't get to immigrant workers, but I assure you that there is a 90% chance he is against them even though his brother uses them to farm tobacco. The thing is Obama was right. Until we change the things people prioritize for casting their votes, they will fall back on these things. These are core beliefs. Everything he said was true. Hillary & McCain playing the elitist stereotype is so dishonest. Does Senator 109 million know how bitter people are? Does Senator my wifes drug problem was swept under the rug know? They don't know & until we change the criteria for being elected away from abortions, guns & gays, democrats will loose & Hillary is helping with her response. We expected repugs to, but democrats should be different, not that they are much anymore. Say that he was not telling the truth & I'll show someone who has their head buried in the sand.


I'm not saying what he said won't cost him votes, but I am saying it shouldn't.

[Armstead]

53. Politics should be about Wealth and Power

The challenge is not to change your friend's mind about those social issues.

The real challenge is to decouple those issues from the political process.

It's making that guy realize that not having a government that will help to drive him out of business and poison the earth is what matters.

[elmerdem]

58. I don't want to change his

mind about social issues. I can agree to disagree on those. They are of little importance to me.

"The real challenge is to decouple those issues from the political process."

That is exactly what I did. It only took a little discussion of the real issues. He buys diesel (tax breaks for oil companies). he has a daughter who is asthmatic (health care) & they live near a CAFO (confined animal feeding operation)(environmental regulations).

[Bonobo]

63. I would recommend this 1,000 times. Straight out truth.