One hundred lies don't add up to a truth

[MonkeyFunk]

This is just like how rightwingers acted during the Clinton years. It's just what they did to Gore and Kerry, and what they'll do to our nominee this year. We shouldn't be helping them.

They lie about everything, big and small. When people hear lie after lie after lie, they stop really caring about debunking each and every one - they're just left with the impression that there must be SOMETHING there, or else all these accusations wouldn't exist. That's the brilliance of the strategy - it works.

Clinton did not say life begins at conception. Bill did not say Obama's campaign was a fairy tale. Bill did not go on Rush Limbaugh's show. Hillary DID deny that Obama was a muslim. Hillary did not call Al Gore an elitist. Hillary did not belittle MLK's contribution to civil rights. And on and on and on... yet each of those lies are told here daily by multiple people. They tell them again and again and again in the hope that if you tell enough lies, often enough, they'll work. And the sad part is, they DO work on some people. But it's a shitty way to live.

When the truth becomes less important than hurting the other candidate, you've crossed over from political supporter to rabid wingnut.

But it won't work on me - I know the trick. I've seen it done to the Clintons, to Gore, to Kerry. I know how it works, I know the intent, and I'm not going to fall for it, and that pisses a lot of people off. Some here can't grasp how I could support Clinton after all these attacks on her. Well, I know that the attacks are lies, and one hundred lies don't add up to a truth.

[Cameron27]

1. Thanks MF,

It won't work for me either.

[dchill]

2. How much do you have to drink...

to convince yourself that this pap is true? Do you need to keep a lot of Pepto-Bismol around?

[GarbagemanLB]

3. Since you seem to be able to identify lies so well, I trust you admit Hillary did lie about Bosnia?

[MonkeyFunk]

7. When you denounce

the hundreds of lies told ABOUT Clinton.

You guys are in for a real treat when the tables are turned on your guy.

[Mooney]

19. I love vague, empty threats premised on nothing.

The death of the Obama campaign has been predicted what, 700 times now in the last 2 months? It just isn't happening.

I keep hearing that "soon," there will be "something" that happens that will doom his campaign. Over and over again. And it just doesn't happen. Do you have anything besides empty threats in your arsenal?

[Hepburn]

34. Here...try CLUE ONE, OK?

Let's accept your premise solely for the purpose of discussion herein. So, hundreds of lies are made up about Hillary? That does NOT bode well for her being elected, now does it?

And....why would any group or entity be holding off on telling lies about Obama ~~ that is the inference in your post, right?

Hmmmmm...???

You make no sense...but that is par for the course with Hillary Lovers, IMO.

[MonkeyFunk]

42. It really pisses you guys off

to have anyone disrupt the acoustics in your echo-chamber, doesn't it?

You just fucking HATE that some people here stand up to the lies.

[Mooney]

47. If anyone has an echo chamber,

it would have to be anyone who's lived from 1992 to 2008 and can come away with the impression that Hillary Clinton is an electable presidential candidate. She's only slightly less loathed by the American electorate than Hepatitis C.

[MonkeyFunk]

49. Simply and obviously not true

[Mooney]

52. Of course it's true.

Despite the many interesting points that you raised in post #49, Hillary Clinton is one of the most hated women in America. This has been the case since Bill Clinton's first campaign for president. A vast array of cottage industries have arisen and thrived based solely on manufacturing goods that capitalize on the sheer venom that half the country reserves for the junior senator from New York.

If Hillary Clinton is nominated, you can expect her to carry about five states. Nothing on earth will rally the Republican voters to their polling places than the opportunity to vote against her. Most Republicans would give their left pinky for the privilege, and would slice it off with a smile.

Did you think it was only Obama supporters who have a problem with her? Have you been paying attention for the last 16 years?

[Tyler Durden]

59. You really ARE trying to make friends and influence people, aren't you?

It isn't working. In fact, it's having the opposite effect if your interested.

[Mooney]

62. If I wanted to make friends and influence people, I would hang out in the lounge.

I'm here to discuss the primaries like everyone else. Hillary Clinton's electability is certainly a valid topic of discussion in that context, don't you think?

[Tyler Durden]

91. Sure, as is Obama's....

But if that subject rises, look out for the shitstorm.

That's not discussion. That's intimidation, and it tends to breed enemies.

[Texas Hill Country]

4. k&r

[RememberWellstone]

5. Me too! K&R

Well said.

[blm]

6. You didn't see the Clintons do it to Gore and Kerry, did you?

The backstabbing?
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

The consistent defense of Bush on Iraq?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

The sabotage of Ohio Dem voters?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


The smearing of Kerry in validation of Bush's feigned outrage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[MonkeyFunk]

9. Nope

just more lies from your side.

[PVnRT]

56. How is this a lie?

(from the CNN article)

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

How is this not defending Bush on Iraq?

[AtomicKitten]

38. The truth shall set them free.

:thumbsup:

[cali]

8. that's one part of it.

Clinton didn't say that life begins at conception, but there was another thread this morning attacking Obama for not really being pro-choice. Obama has not done anything to indicate he looks down on Pennsylvanians as Hillary claimed. He has more to his resume than a 2002 speech as she claimed. And that's the candidate speaking. There are hundreds of post each day here, as well, from Hillary supporters that don't hew to the truth. It's hardly one sided. Support Clinton to your heart's desire, but consider dropping the martyr act.

[dionysus]

10. whatever. the clintons are both habitual liars... get over it...

:eyes:

[countingbluecars]

11. Oh geez,

look in the mirror.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. 'One hundred lies don't add up to a truth'...

that's fucking RICH coming from a supporter of Hillary Clinton, who was against NAFTA (when she wasn't), who braved sniper fire in Bosnia (because, you know, anyone could mistake an 8-year-old girl with a poem for a sniper with a Dragunov), bringer of peace to Northern Ireland, who was against the war in Iraq before Obama was...do you have any idea how little room you, as a supporter of a candidate who is an obvious, repeated, and proven LIAR, have to make those accusations regarding ANYONE ELSE? Do you?

And are you really so goddamned stupid that you don't undersatand implication? Hmm? Can you possibly be that dense? Q: Do you think Obama is a Muslim? 'He's not a Muslim...as far as I know'. Q:Do you really think Obama is an elitist? 'I think he's a good man, but...You don't have to think back too far to remember that good men running for president were viewed as being elitist and out of touch with the values and lives of millions of Americans'.

[Writer]

17. Next time you go into a corkscrew roll while landing in a plane, tell me...

if you don't think there may be a problem. You know, like sniper fire. Which is what the cockpit informed the passengers. Oh yeah, then made the passengers sit at the front of the plane with vests on. You know, that every day stuff that she completely embellished on. :eyes:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

18. She did embellish.

I don't believe she lied though. I think she probably believed she was telling the truth when she spoke it.

That being said, she should just say that this is what happened instead of saying she was tired etc.

[redqueen]

23. She believed they had to duck their heads and run straight to the vehicles?

That the ceremony was cancelled?

That it was moved indoors?

Really?! You believe she believed ALL of those claims to be factual?

[MattBaggins]

25. She believed it when she said it?

So you think she's pathological?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. I think that little by little, you can convince yourself of anything by embellishing & embellishing

over the course of ten years.

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. Except none of that happened either.

Not the 'corkscrew roll' on landing, not the crew telling the passengers there were snipers. All that stuff? That's 'embellishment' too (if you prefer to call it that). None of the other passengers recall any of it.

[Writer]

32. You're not presenting me with any evidence that Sinbad wasn't lying, either.

It's he said-she said. So, who are you going to believe, Sinbad in 2000? Or Sinbad in 2008 supporting his man Barack Obama?

Check out this article... especially the second to last paragraph discussing how Sinbad described the Bosnia landing in a Sept. 2000 article as being a fight between "the crips and the bloods."

Tense? Now he's saying it was like a pleasure trip.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.html

[Spider Jerusalem]

36. I didn't say Sinbad.

He wasn't the only person there.

CBS News has now posted the full version of the truncated report by correspondent Sharyl Attkisson about the arrival ceremony in Tuzla that has been circulating on YouTube. You can see it below.

In a blog posting here, Attkisson shares her memories about the trip. She recalls that the pilots made a steep, very fast descent into Tuzla "to minimize exposure to hostile fire on the ground," but adds that there were "no known incidents of enemy fire on our aircraft." (This kind of landing is not the same as the "corkscrew landing" described by Clinton in some of her speeches. You can see an example of a corkscrew landing here.) Attkisson adds:

The mood upon first landing at the Tuzla airport was light. Children were there on the tarmac to greet the first lady, Chelsea was by her side, Bosnian dignitaries had gathered: It felt safe...To be sure, it was not the "safest" trip for a First Lady to take: there were serious risks in traveling to Bosnia, even for the President's wife under the vigilant protection of the U.S. military. It took some guts for her to go. But I don't recall, and did not note, any close calls on this trip with sniper fire or any other dangers.

More, including video: http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/more_incoming_for_clinton.html

Hillary Clinton is demonstrably full of shit. Sorry if you want to cling to some idea that she might have credibility. Sorry if there's some reason you want to believe her. But she's not telling the truth.

[Writer]

40. Actually I think you missed some rather important facets of the article

Let's see: "Steep, fast decent to 'minimize hostile fire on the ground.'" CHECK. Not the corkscrew, but it certainly sounds like it was an evasive maneuver.

There was likely sniper fire in the hills surrounding the airport. CHECK.

The only thing that doesn't check out is her running to the car after landing.

You think she's a liar. You're never going to give her the benefit of the doubt. But in my perspective, why would a perfectly intelligent woman repeat an untrue story that a person can easily check on? Doesn't that sound sort of self-destructive? To me, I think she honestly believed this to be the case. I don't think she's a "liar" or that she's "full of shit." I think this is a woman who is getting smeared by constant attacks on her character.

Is this feeling like 1996? Yes. In more ways than one.

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. ..why would a perfectly intelligent woman repeat an untrue story that a person can easily check on?

To make herself look god, most likely. Ask yourself that question about her claims of opposition to NAFTA (which are demonstrably untrue). Ask yourself that question about her claims that she 'opposed the war before Obama' (which is demonstrably untrue). This isn't JUST about her ludicrous Bosnian sniper-fire story, this is about a very clear PATTERN of truthlessness and blatant lying.

[Writer]

48. NAFTA? The Obama campaign has been lying about Clinton's stance on NAFTA from day one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/14/did-hillary-clinton-reall_n_86674.html

[Spider Jerusalem]

50. You mean HILLARY has been lying about her stance on NAFTA from day one.

What is the proper word for the claim by Hillary Clinton and the more factually disinclined supporters of her campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination -- made in speeches, briefings and interviews (including one by this reporter with the candidate) -- that she has always been a critic of the North American Free Trade Agreement?

Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. Now that we know all of this, how should we assess the claim that Hillary's heart has always beaten to a fair-trade rhythm?

Now that we know from official records of her time as First Lady that Clinton was the featured speaker at a closed-door session where 120 women opinion leaders were hectored to pressure their congressional representatives to approve NAFTA; now that we know from ABC News reporting on the session that "her remarks were totally pro-NAFTA" and that "there was no equivocation for her support for NAFTA at the time;" now that we have these details confirmed, what should we make of Clinton's campaign claim that she was never comfortable with the militant free-trade agenda that has cost the United States hundreds of thousands of union jobs, that has idled entire industries, that has saddled this country with record trade deficits, undermined the security of working families in the US and abroad, and has forced Mexican farmers off their land into an economic refugee status that ultimately forces them to cross the Rio Grande River in search of work?
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=300860

[Writer]

53. Okay, now I see the purpose in pressuring Hillary Clinton to release her records.

I'll give you NAFTA, and I'll be a woman and say that she lied here. However, I'd like for you to be a man and admit that Barack Obama lied about receiving bundled money from oil and gas industry executives.

On edit: In case you need to see some literature. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/28/834887.aspx

[Spider Jerusalem]

54. More intellectual dishonesty from you, I see.

You're just not capable of honest discourse, are you? I haven't made any claims regarding any statements of Senator Obama in this thread. You on the other hand have made a claim regarding a demonstrably untrue statement by Senator Clinton. I have refuted that claim with evidence, and now you ask me to admit to something that isn't even under discussion? Can you say 'red herring'?

[Writer]

55. Actually, no, I'm being a woman and accepting the evidence that you provided.

But I'm pointing out that Obama lied as well - about receiving money from oil and gas executives.

In case you need the article again. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/28/834887.aspx

If we're going to accuse politicians of lying, we might as well pass that torch around.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. That isn't what this discussion is about.

And I'm not going to play. I'm not going to be led astray by your attempt to introduce blatant logical fallacies into the discussion, which is not about Obama, but Clinton. And asking me to admit to something when I've made no claims in defence of what you're citing is complete and utter nonsense. If you want to feel like you've scored a victory by introducing a total irrelevancy in an attempt to derail the discussion, go right ahead.

[Writer]

60. No, it's a discussion in which I was enlightened.

I don't have a problem with that. But the game of politics is coloring your opponents in such a way as to make them less palatable to voters. And I say that for all the things said about Hillary Clinton, there are equal examples about Barack Obama. He lied about oil and gas money.

I was a woman and admitted my end - why won't you be a man and admit your end of the equation?

[Spider Jerusalem]

66. Because it ISN'T 'my end of the equation'.

I haven't made any claim on the issue you're absurdly attempting to raise. (Unlike your claims re Hillary's NAFTA stance.) What you are doing is intellectually dishonest and logically fallacious. You are attempting to introduce an issue which is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is about Senator Clinton. You are attempting to argue that I ought to, for no good reason, reject something I haven't defended in the first place. And again, I am not going to play.

[Writer]

68. So you're going to admit that Barack Obama lied about taking money from oil and gas exec's?

And that Barack Obama is - and can - lie just as much as Hillary Clinton can in the heat of an election?

[Tyler Durden]

64. I will guide Obama Supporters to YOU, next time they try that tactic.

I haven't been on a Clinton thread yet that some Obama Supporter hasn't dived in on and said "Well Hillary THIS and Hillary THAT..."

You're on a defensive Clinton thread, and you dispute similar behavior by your candidate. When that STOPS on the other side of the coin, then you have a valid argument.

[JTFrog]

76. No fucking CHECK. The lies are disputed by the Pilot himself.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/26/93119/1241/595/484508

Hillary lied and her supporters continue the lie. There is solid evidence of this all over the world now. Click the link for the pilot's exact words.


Summary of pilot's comments:

No evasive landing... There was a steep descent because the airstrip is surrounded by mountains.

No bullets or sniper fire...We never would have landed there if there were any such thing.

No "sitting on flackjackets.." The only place I've ever heard of that was in the movie Full Metal Jacket.

She is full of shit and is smearing herself with it.

[JTFrog]

70. Yet even the pilot denies the lies.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/26/93119/1241/595/484508

Hillary lied and her supporters continue the lie. There is solid evidence of this all over the world now. Click the link for the pilot's exact words.


Summary of pilot's comments:

No evasive landing... There was a steep descent because the airstrip is surrounded by mountains.

No bullets or sniper fire...We never would have landed there if there were any such thing.

No "sitting on flackjackets.." The only place I've ever heard of that was in the movie Full Metal Jacket.

The piece of fiction written by Hillary and edited by her supporters is surely to be nominated for the Oscars this year.

[Writer]

13. It doesn't work on me, either.

And if Clinton were doing that repeatedly to Obama, I wouldn't believe that, either. For instance, I don't believe that Obama thinks negatively of Pennsylvanians at all. However, it was a very impolitic choice of words that demonstrates his political naievity more than condescension. And given the crap about Hillary's words being completely twisted around to say that she thought Obama was a Muslim, as ONE example, then like hell Obama deserves to get chastised for this.

Call me a cynic, but I can see the political mechanics at work everytime this stupidity erupts. And I don't think it's the candidate's faults - it's our faults for propagating half-truths and untruths to promote our world views. This means that, ultimately, we elect our leaders based on lies EVERY TIME.

Democracy? Power of the people? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

[AX10]

14. K & R!

The sad thing is that the left wing activists have jumped onto the bandwagon too. :eyes:
They better not expect me to defend Obama if he is the nominee in the fall.
I will not be voting for him.

[csorman]

31. Oh, please

So you won't vote if Obama is the nominee? Really? Wow. "Bitter" is an understatement in your case. You're just plain angry.

[JackORoses]

15. Hillary is a Liar and will always be one.

Thankfully, she will never ever be our President.
I take great comfort in this fact.

Keep it up, Hillary. At this rate, even New York won't have to put up with you in the future.

[Maribelle]

16. They did it to Dukakis, too, MonkeyFunk.

Thanks for posting this!

[Taxmyth]

21. I've seen it also

Good job MonkeyFunk. K&R.

[cbayer]

22. Doesn't work on me, either.

I question just about everything and generally don't reach a conclusion until I've done my own research. I refuse to be a tool. However, it is amazing to see how well it works on many people posting here.

Thanks for you OP.

[oasis]

24. k and r

[MethuenProgressive]

26. k&r

:thumbsup:

[Usrename]

27. Bill Clinton actually said it was NOT a fairy tale.

:rofl:

How do you manage to post this stuff with at straight face?

[MonkeyFunk]

28. because it's true

He didn't say Obama's campaign was a fairy tale. :shrug:

[Usrename]

33. What did he say?

He said that Obama was running a campaign based on a fairy tale. Didn't he say that? What is your malfuntion?

Can't you handle the truth?

:rofl:

This is pathetic if weren't so damn funny.

[MonkeyFunk]

35. Nope

but this isn't a thread to refute the hundreds of lies you guys tell.

You've merely demonstrated that you've fallen for them.

[Usrename]

51. Sure. He never said anything about any fairy tale.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

77. Yes, he did use the term

but not in reference to Obama's entire campaign.

You're lying.

[Usrename]

82. No, I am not a liar. You are a delusional idiot if you think I'm lying.

All you seem to do is accuse other people of lying.

What was he talking about then, if wasn't about Obama's campaign being based on a fairy tale?

Prove me a liar!

I double-dog dare you!

[MonkeyFunk]

88. He was talking about Obama's claims

regarding his record on the war in Iraq.

[Usrename]

90. You don't think he was talking about Obama's campaign at all?

He literally shocked his audience, by criticizing Mr. Obama and his campaign, pointing his finger and raising his already hoarse voice. In response to a question about the Clinton camp’s pollster Mark Penn wrongly insisting initially that Mr. Obama had gotten no “bounce’’ out of Iowa, Mr. Clinton began by acknowledging that Mr. Penn had been wrong. Then he fired away, in a mocking tone:

“But since you raised the judgment issue let’s go over this again. That is the central argument for his campaign. It doesn’t matter that ‘I’ started running for president less than a year after ‘I’ got to the senate after the Illinois senate. ‘I’ am a great speaker and a charismatic figure and ‘I’ am the only one who had the judgment to oppose this war from the beginning – always always always.”


“It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time — not once, ‘Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn’t know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war. And you took that speech you’re now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there’s no difference in your voting record and Hillary’s ever since.’

“Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairytale I’ve ever seen.

>>>

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/the-clinton-camp-unbound/

That is the central argument to his whole campaign and this whole thing is the biggest fairytale I've ever seen!

:think:


I think you owe me an apology here.

[SIMPLYB1980]

30. K&R!

[ProSense]

37. Hillary did say "shame on you" when she knew she defended NAFTA. Hillary did lie about Bosnia

repeatedly. Hillary did accuse Obama of plagiarism and on and on...

Hillary lies and her tactics are despicable.

[Straight Shooter]

39. Thanks, MonkeyFunk.

The biggest lie of all is that Obama doesn't lie, and somehow only Hillary is cursed with this personal failing.

It's all so ridiculous. I agree 100% with what Writer said, above-thread.

[Writer]

41. Here was one HUGE lie about Hillary Clinton: her campaign darkened Obama's face in an ad.

Here's FactCheck.org's refutation of this one: http://www.factcheck.org/just-the-facts/colorful_conspiracies.html

BTW: Don'cha know that the Clinton's are racists? :sarcasm:

Anyone else want to post other lies told about Clinton's campaign?

[SIMPLYB1980]

43. No, but here is a link to one of Obama's lies.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/28/834887.aspx

[Writer]

46. Let's spell it out: Obama lied about taking money bundled from the Oil and Gas Industry. n/t

[PVnRT]

58. Wrong.

He took money form employees of oil & gas companies, which is different. Or are you guys going to claim he's in the pocket of every single industry every single one of his donors works for?

[Writer]

61. If you take money bundled from oil and gas executives, indeed you are taking it...

from the industry as a means to influence his support.

I mean, the way you put it, any money Hillary Clinton receives from her corporate donors is also simply individual contributions, right? No industry contributions? Right?

[PVnRT]

67. If she takes it from coporate PACs and board members, yes

John Doe who works in Accounting or in Operations on the night shift have no control over the company, do they? Are you honestly not able to see the difference?

[Writer]

69. So this article is simply not true?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/28/834887.aspx

[PVnRT]

71. Did you read beyond the first few paragraphs?

Just last month, Obama took more than $11,000 from individuals at Exxon-Mobil, per the center. At least 12 of those contributions came from individuals who contributed $250 each, the lowest listed donation. In that same period, Clinton took more than $3,000 from individuals working at Exxon-Mobil.

However, many of those contributions appear to come from workers at the firm not just executives. For example, Patrice McGowan, an Exxon-Mobil shift supervisor, who lives in Joliet, Ill., has donated $982 to Obama as of January. She also has a blog profile on Obama’s campaign Web site.

“I am a single woman who has worked shift work all my life, sometimes never seeing another woman on the job for weeks,” her profile reads, in part.

Please note the emphasized part, and actually answer the question about taking donations from those who control company policy versus those who don't.

[Writer]

73. Indeed I did. He took money from executives, as well.

"At least 12 of those contributions came from individuals who contributed $250 each." That's $3,000. Out of $11,000. Now... who contributed the $7000 remaining from Exxon-Mobile? The highlighted portion says he took from "not just executives."

Oil and gas executives contributed to Barack Obama's campaign! The man lied.

[PVnRT]

84. Are you deliberately obtuse?

Let's go straight to the source that the article references, and see who gave money to Obama:

Paul Browning - Unknown, $2,300
William Clendenen - Unknown, $2,300
Judith Batty - Attorney, $2,300
Tom Walter - Engineer, $1,000
Patrice McGowan - Shift Supervisor, $982
Jacinta Williams - Engineer, $906
Thomas O'Connor - Chemical Engineer, $750
Debra King - Manager, $500
Jason Waldrop - Engineer, $475
Karla Holomon - Attorney/Negotiator, $400
Burak Powers - Senior Developer, $298
John Reese - Section Supervisor, $254
Ed Graham - Engineer, $250
Eloka Uzodike - Procurement Services, $250
Marla Madden - Project Manager, $250
Chukwueloka Uzodike - Procurement Services, $250
Michael Sweet - Geologist, $250
Randall Roy - Engineer, $250
Darnell Richardson - Rackman, $250
Patricia Bielenberg - Researcher, $250
Rita Burke - Financial Manager, $250
Hans Fischl - Geotechnician, $250

So, that's two unknowns who could be anyone, a couple of "managers," of which there are thousands in a company like Exxon, a couple of Attorneys, and a lot of peons. Unless, of course, you think a Geologist is an "executive." Either way, you have absolutely no proof that an Exxon executive donated to Obama's campaign outside of an offhand comment from an opinion columnist.

Of course, if you actually have EVIDENCE about executives from Exxon giving Obama money, go ahead and post it.

[Exilednight]

75. There's a difference between taking it from individuals who work for companies.........,

and taking money from PAC's and lobby groups who represent the political interest for those corporations.

[Exilednight]

44. Setting the record straight.

Here are your claims:

Bill did not say Obama's campaign was a fairy tale. Bill did not go on Rush Limbaugh's show. Hillary DID deny that Obama was a muslim. Hillary did not call Al Gore an elitist. Hillary did not belittle MLK's contribution to civil rights.

About the fairy tale remark -
Bill Clinton: "That is the central argument for his campaign ", Bill rambles on and goes over the course of events leading up to the Iraq invasion. Bill then says "give me a break, this whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."
Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDx4NZr2u4

About the Obama is a Muslim remark -
Hillary's exact words were, "there is nothing to base that, AS far as I know." The "AS far as I know" is what got her in trouble. Either she knows he's not a Muslim, or she doesn't.
Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFREDHB-nQ&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/03/hillary-obama-not-muslim_n_89546.html

About Hillary belittling MLK's contribution -
Hillary took the credit away from MLK and gave it to LBJ. Let's be honest, no matter who the President was, the civil rights bill was going to pass. There was to much pressure from the African-American community, thanks to MLK, to keep it from becoming law. All LBJ did was sign a piece of paper, yet Hillary makes it sound like he worked hard for the African-American community. Talk about fairy tales.
Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9LhWUsrJnM

Just because you don't see these things, doesn't mean that other people don't.

I haven't heard the Al Gore is an elitist bit, but at this point I would have to believe it after given her track record.

[JTFrog]

72. Hey don't start pulling physical evidence into this. The Clinton's are used to the 90's when it

was possible to lie all you want and by the time someone uncovered the truth you were already in office.

Now how can you expect them to win when you can pull video and transcripts out of thin air off the internets?


Sheesh.

[Exilednight]

74. It's funny how some people manage to keep those pesky little things called facts under the carpet.

[MonkeyFunk]

78. they're partial facts

amounting to lies, the way they're told here.

[Exilednight]

79. Partial facts? That's like saying your partially pregnant. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

80. I'm saying

that when one examines the totality of the situations, the facts presented don't tell the whole story, and amount to lying.

Clinton denied FIVE times that Obama was a muslim. You guys use ONE qualifying expression - which was perfectly reasonable to use - to imply that she didn't deny he's a muslim.

You're liars, and you get pissed when some of us are smart enough to see through you.

[Exilednight]

81. It's perfectly reasonable to use a neocon qualifying expression? n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

83. Nothing "neoconservative" about

"as far as I know".

It's the truth. And you ignore the other four immediate denials of the claim that he's a muslim.

But this isn't a thread to try to argue each of the hundreds of lies you guys put forth. It's to let you know that some of us understand the right-wing bullshit you're pulling, and aren't going to fall for it, no matter how much it pisses you off.

[Exilednight]

85. It's totally neoconservative. It has rush limpballs written all over it.........

rush uses phrases like "I'm not saying it's true, but it could be."

Hillary just parsed the statement in a different manner.

[MonkeyFunk]

86. That's just plain ridiculous

it's a very common expression, one that predates the existence of neocons. And it happens to be a proper phrase to use in that situation.

But again, you're ignoring the other four instances in that interview when she said "no, he's not a muslim". You're just trying to spread a lie.

[Exilednight]

87. a common expression used to say the opposite of what you mean. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

89. Nope

That's not how I've ever used it, and in my experience, that's not how others use the phrase.

And again, you're ignoring all the other instances in the same interview where she says outright that Obama is not a muslim.

[Exilednight]

92. Then you must not have the much experience with the English language.

[enigmatic]

63. Yep

I stopped taking the usual suspects here in GD: P seriously when they turned on Sherrod Brown (a Liberal w/ a peerless voting record) for the DU Flavor Of The Month at that time, Paul Hackett, simply because he was an Iraq Veteran who spoke against the Iraq War. It didn't matter that his positions on other matters were more in line w/ the GOP than the Democratic Party; even though Brown was against the war, he didn't look good like Hackett. I never took this place seriously again after that; how could I?

You're a good person, MF. Keep fighting the good fight, no matter how much you're outnumbered.

[Catherine Vincent]

65. Great post!

:thumbsup: