Kudos to Obama: He Throws Carter Under The Bus

[ruggerson]

Wise and good move on Senator Obama's part. I offer him my support on this one.

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/20080410obamacarterhamas.html

"Senator Obama does not agree with President Carter's decision to go forward with this meeting because he does not support negotiations with Hamas until they renounce terrorism, recognize Israel's right to exist and abide by past agreements," said a spokesman for campaign of U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.). "As president, Obama will negotiate directly with the head of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas."

[Hoof Hearted]

1. Didn't Obama say he wouldn't put preconditions on Hammas before meeting them himself?

Any way the wind blows, eh senator?

[Hoof Hearted]

7. Oh, forgot to add

Carter will have the company of many good Democrats under that bus, and some typical white person grandma's too!

[cali]

32. except that he didn't throw Carter under the bus

he politely disagreed with him. but never mind, in delusuional hillyworld, up is down.

[ruggerson]

35. and Hillary didn't politely say

that Gore and Kerry were both "good" men of faith who were victims of the rightwing distortion machine?

Which then got morphed and twisted into "she threw them under the bus?" by a certain crowd here?

[Mags]

40. and Calipoo doesn't call others racists, because they are not for Obama.

[cali]

61. my aren't you the sensitive little critter, magpie

tough shit.

[Mags]

70. No , just hate people that stoop to the lowest to accuse some one of racism

when they themselves are bigots. Tough shit, caliopoo

[Mags]

78. Yes, when someone like you, I am sensitive about being called a racist.

there is not a more bigoted person that I have ever come in contact then you. You spout off about anything and you appear to know nothing but low class trash . Hope you enjoy your miserable life. It shows that is all you have.

[Jane Austin]

15. No, he did not.

He said he would meet with other COUNTRIES, not foreign splinter groups.

[AZ Criminal JD]

48. Hamas won the election and is in charge in the Gaza strip.

They are hardly a "foreign splinter group."

[Jane Austin]

71. The Gaza Strip is not a Country. eom

[AZ Criminal JD]

82. Who governs it?

If it is not a country does Israel govern it? Nope.

[rockymountaindem]

75. They also violently suppressed their opposition, and as pointed out downthread

Gaza is only one part of the Palestinian movement which, again, is not a state.

[AZ Criminal JD]

83. What is it?

Is it part of Israel? Does Israel govern the territory? I have been there so please try and get the answer correct.

[rockymountaindem]

85. It's not a sovereign state

That's for sure.

[smiley_glad_hands]

17. Yeah anyway the wind blows is the same as triangulation.

Clinton is an expert at that.

[grasswire]

18. yeah, isn't this a flip flop?

Didn't Obama get toasted for being too willing to meet, previously? It sounds to me as if Obama has seized Hillary's position on this.

[Arrowhead2k1]

24. Again, nice try but...

Hamas is just a political organization, not a full fledged government. Obama's position doesn't contradict jack. But keep grasping for anything you can find you cute little Hillbot you.

[AZ Criminal JD]

55. They are the elected government in the Gaza strip.

Obamabots must learn to keep up on current events.

[Arrowhead2k1]

25. Double post. nt

nt

[woolldog]

28. No he didn't.

Susan Rice made the distinction clear a while ago on Tucker Carlson's show.

CARLSON: So here‘s something that I think I may be one of four people who noticed this. But it really struck me. So Barack Obama has held pretty, in a steadfast way, to this policy of meeting with our enemies. They may hate us but we can‘t make it better until we talked to them. He said that in the face of a lot of criticisms. Meet the heads of state of Iran, North Korea, Cuba, people who really hate us. Then he comes out and says, and I‘m quoting now, he‘s not going to meet with Hamas, democratically elected Hamas.

Quote, “You can‘t negotiate with somebody who doesn‘t recognize the right of a country to exist.”

Is that the criterion now?

RICE: Well, let‘s be clear. What he said was that after due preparation and in order to advance our interest, he would be more than willing to consider meeting with the heads of states of countries with which we had adversarial relationships as a way of trying to see, if through negotiations and other forms of pressure, we can‘t get the desired result.

CARLSON: Right.

RICE: Hamas is a different case. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Hamas is determined to affect Israel‘s destruction. Hamas is not a state.

Hamas is not a head of state. And so.

CARLSON: OK. So you‘re—they are terrorist organization, but the -

government of Iran, which we think bankrolled the 1993 barracks bombings in Beirut killing all those U.S. Marines.

RICE: They are a government that has been a state by (INAUDIBLE)

CARLSON: Absolutely. The same with North Korea.

RICE: Yes, that‘s right.

CARLSON: . peddling methamphetamine throughout Europe.

RICE: Same with the government of Sudan.

CARLSON: Well, there you go.

RICE: But this government has.

CARLSON: There you go but we don‘t have a problem with them, but Hamas.

RICE: Hamas is not a state. Hamas is not a state actor.

CARLSON: Not a state actor? I thought Hamas was kind of in control in Gaza, no?

RICE: No, they‘re controlling Gaza. Gaza is not a state. They are a non-state actor that is controlling territory which acquired through force.

So here‘s the deal. Yes, we have to recognize reality. There are states on this planet with which we have adversarial relationships and which we had real problem. The question is, do we isolate them and take the view that negotiating with them is somehow a reward? Or do we go back to a policy that has served this country well under.

CARLSON: Right. You know, I get.

RICE: .Ronald Reagan and others to negotiate.

CARLSON: Look, I get it. I don‘t think he should meet with Hamas.

RICE: Hamas is different.

CARLSON: I think Hamas is repulsive. I don‘t think he should meet with him.

RICE: It is indeed.

CARLSON: Good for him. But the only difference is, is a political one.

RICE: No.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23503309/

[Texas Hill Country]

74. he calls them "preparations" not "preconditions"

[MADem]

2. Gee, what happened to "Carter is going to tell Clinton to quit because he and Obama are like Ike and

Mike???"

:eyes:

[NYCGirl]

11. So how does one thing preclude the other? NT

[MADem]

39. Because Jimmy is starting to "stink" on this subject, which is why

Obama is running away from the guy.

He went from "I am not going to criticize Carter" to "Carter shouldn't do that."

In the space of less than a week.

You figure it out...

[NYCGirl]

49. It's called politely disagreeing. That's allowed here in the US. No one's running

away from anyone.

[MADem]

58. Obama has gone from "It's not for me to comment" to "Bad move, Jimbo."

He IS running away.

He's DISTANCING himself, because he knows full well that his church, with Rev. Wright presiding, published a Hamas manifesto in their frigging church bulletin. Jimmy's latest move is a REMINDER of all that.

See, Jimmy isn't HELPING him, which is why he has to rachet up the rhetoric and do a little tut-tutting, instead of saying "None o'my beezwax."

[NYCGirl]

72. Jimmy doesn't work for Obama. He has not endorsed a candidate.

President Carter is a free agent and can do whatever he wants.

[MADem]

86. Yep. NT

[GarbagemanLB]

3. So disagreeing = throwing under the bus? Wow, you Hillbots are bitter.

[knixphan]

8. bitter because she threw Gore under the bus

[ruggerson]

10. Just using the language you guys employ

thought it might be understood better. Trying to work with you here.

[redqueen]

34. For comprehension:

"throwing under the bus" = "so-and-so is DEAD TO ME NOW!"

[ruggerson]

37. I'll file that one

as I've mentioned below, it would be nice if a handbook was distributed.

[redqueen]

I think we've seen enough threads about

how anyone who dares to go against The Plan is "dead to" the Clinton supporters.

Not exactly a grey area, is it?

[ruggerson]

56. I really see that phrase more from

Obama supporters using it cynically to distort some CLinton supporter's attitudes.

But, nevertheless, I trust you agree with me then that Hillary didn't throw anyone under the bus and I'll agree with you that Keith Olbermann is alive and well to me. (though still promoting your guy at every turn.)

[redqueen]

59. Well...

although they didn't use that phrase... I do think Bill & Hill threw Richardson under the bus.

But yeah... I'm with you on the whole not going completely batshit insane thing. :hi:

[sniffa]

16. That's typical of most (but not all) of them

[ruggerson]

23. awww

still unhappy from yesterday?

I wuv you sniffa.

[sniffa]

38. Why would I be?

I appreciate your concern though. :loveya:

[ruggerson]

43. My concern is free

as is my affection.

[sniffa]

46. Thanks

:hug:

[NightWatcher]

4. He did not throw him under a bus. He respectfully disagreed

but said Carter was a citizen who has a right to do what he wants.

Swing and a miss on that one

[NJmaverick]

5. That wasn't throwing him under the bus

That's simply disagreeing with him. If you want an example of someone being tossed under the bus, just read or listen to what Hillary had to say about Gore and Kerry.

[glowing]

6. Is it time yet that we finally stop telling other countries what to do?

Oh that's right, we're the Imperialistic US of Fucking A, who delivers "peace" on the end of the sword.. if money doesn't work first.

[MADem]

45. HAMAS isn't a country. It's not even a "government." NT

[glowing]

51. I understand.. They are a party withing the Palestinian people's..

I'm talking about the generality of always having to do "something". Iraq is doing marvelously..

On Edit... yes, I realize they have been associated with terrorist activities.. so a general "party" description may not be correct.. Then again in our own country many a repug could fit nicely into that category defined as "terrorist" as well.. torture, lawlessness, concentration camps, and an army/ private armies at disposal to bomb the shit out of everyone and everything... Fine lines we walk when passing judgements that have been scripted to us for years by media, politicians, and various special interest groups.

[AZ Criminal JD]

94. Like them or not, they are the elected government in the Gaza strip.

[Larkspur]

9. Carter has more free rein than Obama

Carter is not running for President so he can afford politically to meet with Hamas. Obama has AIPAC and the Clintonistas threatening him with anti-Semitism if he supports Carter up front.

I have faith that Carter's meeting with Hamas will provide fruits in the future.

[Lou Queb]

66. thumbs up

:thumbsup:

[leftynyc]

87. Carter only has credibility with one side

of that conflict which makes him worthless.

[Arrowhead2k1]

12. Didn't really throw Carter under the bus. He wasn't that harsh.

Just expressed a different opinion than Carter on how to deal with the Palestinians. Personally, I side more with Carter on this one, but I can totally understand Obama's position considering the huge responsibility as President he's about to take on. Carter himself probably would have taken up the same position had he been running for office again. He wasn't exactly pro-Palestine when he had his turn to really make a difference decades ago.

[rucky]

13. If disagreement = throwing under the bus

we better get a bus big enough for everybody

[ruggerson]

20. So then Hillary didn't throw Gore and Kerry under the bus eh?

I'm just trying to work with the same language you guys established.

[PM7nj]

29. Hillary didn't disagree with them, she insulted them by using RW smears! nt

[ruggerson]

30. Please distribute the handbook

so we know what exactly constitutes "throwing under the bus."

[rucky]

77. Ask Gramma Obama what it doesn't mean

and get back to me.

[leftynyc]

88. The lying never stops - on both sides

All Hillary said was that our candidates have been deemed elitest. And they have, by both the press and the pubs. What is the lie there and where did Hillary insult either one of them?

Obama disagreeing with Carter in speaking to Hamas is his opinion which he is entitled to do.

[rucky]

76. What is she in disagreement with them over?

Except Gore winning the election?

[Bolo Boffin]

21. Will this one do?

[smiley_glad_hands]

14. Nice try.

Trying to make up for Hill throwing progressives, the party, Al Gore, and John Kerry under the bus? Not gonna work.

Carter is a private citizen, Obama is running for president.

[ruggerson]

27. Al Gore is not a private citizen?

news to me.

Do you have a handbook maybe that you can let us have so we know the distinctions you all make beforehand?

[smiley_glad_hands]

67. She basically said he and Kerry lost because they were elitists.

Theres no hand book, just facts. Like the fact that Hilliary still continues to bash Obama with right wing frames and hurting the party and the progressive movement in the process.

On edit if you dont see the difference try taking your Hill goggles off.

[ruggerson]

69. What she said

was that they were both "good" men of faith that had been miscaricaturized by the rightwing machine so that chunks of the electorate felt they didn't understand their values.

That's what she said. Good men of faith.

So go spin your distortions to someone stupid enough to believe you.

[leftynyc]

89. Basically - you're lying

Getting to be a bad habit by both sides. She did no such thing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. Since when is merely disagreeing with someone "throwing him under the bus"?

And if I hear that expression once more I think I will :puke:

[Symarip]

22. He hates Jimmy Carter

And he hates America. It's *so* obvious.

[tritsofme]

26. Good for Mr. Obama.

Carter is in the wrong in this situation.

[ruggerson]

31. I second that

I heartily agree with Senator Obama on this.

[Mags]

47. Who would have guessed it!!

[DS1]

57. .

wrong place

[leftynyc]

90. So do I (n/t)

[David Zephyr]

33. Obama said the right thing. Carter is working on his own.

Clearly a presidential candidate can not support meeting with Hamas. Obama said the right thing and I agree with him here 100%.

I like the fact that Carter is doing what he is doing. I also suspect that the Israeli government, in spite of their expected and understandable public protestations, are indeed in some measure approving of Carter's reaching out where few others can or will. Let's hope that some good comes from his trip.

Still, it would be improper for Obama to encourage it.

I agree with the OP.

[ruggerson]

41. thank you David

I agree with your OP earlier as well.

[Mags]

36. Hey, Obama and his followers would throw Jesus Christ under the bus if they think they could benefit

[40ozDonkey]

42. Classy to drag Jesus into your hate-fest. n/t

[Mags]

52. Some Obama follower has a big O with Jesus, I mean Obama in the middle of it.

Don't even act like my post offends you. What a joke.

[40ozDonkey]

62. Yeah, that's exactly the same as saying "Hillary supporters would hate Jesus."

:sarcasm:
Keep digging your ditch, you match your campaign choice perfectly.

I know you don't care what offends anybody but you, but don't be fooled into thinking I waste emotion on what you type.

[Mags]

68. what??????????

[MadBadger]

44. Thats not throwing under the bus, that's disagreement.

I'm glad he didnt throw him under the bus like dumbfucks in the media are calling for him to do (disinvite him to the convention if hes the nominee).

[ruggerson]

50. He's an ex Pres

He should be at the convention.

He should also be roundly criticized when he does something stupid like this.

[MadBadger]

60. I agree, he should be criticized.

But its completely ridiculous that David Gregory and Scarborough are critcizing him for not standing strong enough against Carter, saying he should disinvite him.

[leftynyc]

91. Nothing would be enough for those clowns

My advice is to ignore them. Ratings do rule in the TV world.

[sniffa]

53. Shhh

Don't disrupt the narrative that's being built.

:hi:

[grantcart]

54. having a principled disagreement is not 'throwing someone under the bus'

I am sure that Clinton has the same policy as Obama, or are you suggesting that she has a different policy?

It will be interesting to see if Carter is able to get anything from Hamas.

[goldcanyonaz]

63. Bravo to Senator Obama.

We do not negotiate with terrorists.

:toast:

[Lou Queb]

64. Please, don't start with this terrorist rhetoric...

And why wouldn't he meet with leaders of a legitimate party ? That's why I don't get politicians !
Hamas is just another player in the region and has its importance. GWBush used terrorism on civilians and his election was contested...sorry I couldn't resist to jump in this one !

[johnnydrama]

65. big difference

Obama is disagreeing with Carter because he's going against Obama's policy to not speak to Hamas.

Clinton dissed Kerry & Gore to help her political aspirations.

What Clinton said has nothing to do with any policy of hers, it's just strictly politics.

[Texas Hill Country]

73. good for him

[ElsewheresDaughter]

79. It's getting really really crowded under there.

[Arkana]

80. This is called "disagreeing",

not "throwing under the bus".

[oasis]

81. But..but.. weren't Carter and Gore all set to endorse Obama?

As many here (DU) have said?:shrug:

[rodeodance]

84. oops

[ElsewheresDaughter]

92. But praise the lawd for ronald raygun and poppa bush ...pass the plate for the great O

[sudopod]

93. This isn't "throwing him under the bus"

Sheesh, disagreement isn't denouncement.