To all of the HRC supporters calling Obama 'an elitist'...please explain something to me.

[Danger Mouse]

How in HELL are McCain and HRC NOT elitists?

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. They know who has the voting power and they don't stand aloof from them

They don't diss the rural voters. It's hard to believe you can't see that for yourself.

[Danger Mouse]

2. HRC has implied that the only states that counted...

were the ones that she won.
How is that not dissing the rural voters?

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. Maybe you should provide actual quotations

And make your case first, then we can talk about what it is NOT.

[Maine-ah]

6. as a rural voter, I don't feel that he "dissed" us in anyway

he nailed it right on the head. I understood his comments about religion and guns as an issue people cling to when they vote.

[ginnyinWI]

15. do you think the media has underestimated you?

I do. Everyone rural is not an uneducated hayseed. They usually have more than the average amount of common sense, and can see hypocrisy for what it is. This morning's polls seem to bear this out--HRC has slipped a little, but not Obama.

Of course the media is going to run with anything that smells like controversy. But there really is no there, there. I don't believe the majority are like those people in HRC's ad.

[Maine-ah]

61. I would say the media has "dissed" us

they think we're a bunch of ignorant hicks.

As Maine goes, is the saying, and we went with Obama.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

38. My interpretation

was that we are too stupid to go out and vote for someone who we consider best to lead our nation. That because I am religious, it is a crutch. That statement about religion is a statement I have heard before from atheists many times. Religion is a crutch that I use to make me feel better about my myself. They are wrong, and Senator Obama is wrong. I'm from the south and all the men I know like to hunt and fish and they had guns before Obama ever hit the political scene with his misrepresentations of our way of life. He didn't just insult Pennsylvanians, he insulted the average working class American, the Veterans, the religous. He won't be able to squirm out of this one. I know what he said and I don't need the media to interpret for me either.

[shugah]

54. but you weren't going to vote for him anyway

were you?

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

56. I think you are presuming

I may have to vote for him. But I don't think so at this point in time. Actually in my primary I voted for John Edwards. I still think John was the person for the job of president. I notice that both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama have grabbed onto many of the Edwards positions.

[cliffordu]

70. Yeah, I'd be interested as to why the talking point the person you

are responding to sounds......JUST LIKE WHAT MCCAIN SAID YESTERDAY.....


I wonder how this person votes, really. Kind of an explicit username, also.....


Lotta folks around here repeating ad nauseum the talking points without backing up the arguments with any real quotes or even feeling to their tirade

It's like robocallers only on a message board....

edited for speling (sic).

[Skidmore]

63. Well, I'd like to know what is more important to you?

Guns, God, and gays or your economic interests? I think it is an insult to all Americans to focus on the false fears that the right wing has ginned up around these issues over the past 2 decades while selling out your economic wellbeing and the future of your children. The "average" American who votes his/her fears has given away the power of their vote to a party of elites (the Republicans) and has sold their souls for a mess of pottage.

[Maine-ah]

66. Obama wasn't (as I interpreted it) speaking of the

physical clinging of religion and guns, but that those are the issues that people cling to when they have given up hope of anything ever really changing within our government.

People don't expect health care to change, or the economy, or the war, so they base their vote on issues like gay marriage, religion, guns ect.... they "cling" to those issues.

[cliffordu]

79. Well, then, if you

(to qoute you)
"know what he said and I don't need the media to interpret for me either."

Then why don't you read the entire transcript of what he said?? If you had done that you'd see that you ARE being led around like a child by a bunch of elitist shitheads just so they can keep the breathless churn up.

If you HAD read the entire transcript, you wouldn't say:

"He won't be able to squirm out of this one."

Your agenda is as plain as your illiteracy. Oh, yeah, and when you say:

"He didn't just insult Pennsylvanians, he insulted the average working class American, the Veterans, the religous."

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You speak for no one, except yourself, unless you're being coached by the Clinton campaign.

cee ya wouldn't wanna bee ya.

:patriot:

[countingbluecars]

17. What I see...

They just tell these voters how strong and patriotic they are and then do nothing to benefit them. You're good god fearing people. Just stay in your place. Be happy-except when we tell you to be afraid. Don't worry if you earn minimum wage. Wal-mart has good bargains if you don't mind a little poison in your goods. Can't afford to send your children to college? No worry, they can always enlist and be Army smart. Maybe rural voters are tired of the lies.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

60. Be careful

wherever you shop. I've been in the most expensive department store in town looking for dishes, and most things there were made in China. Since I was looking for a new set of dishes, I certainly did not buy because of the lead paint China uses, and many other countries do not have laws against the use of lead paint in dishes. This is a law that I hope both Senators will speak about. The United States has laws against lead paint in dishes but I don't know if that law is being enforced. I am tired of looking at labels in all stores and seeing those 3 words. Made in China.

[cali]

18. I am a rural voter. and I don't need your elitest bullshit.

who the fuck are YOU to tell me I've been insulted? Just because I'm a rural voter doesn't mean I can't decide for myself what Obama meant. I don't need the likes of Hill or McCan't or you to interpret for me. It's hard to believe you can't see that for yourself. Hill needs to sod off.

[SOS]

40. 81% of Americans live in cities and suburbs

nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

83. The other 19% get to choose our Presidents

Sad, but true.

[Evergreen Emerald]

4. I do not believe he is an elitist anymore than Bush is the problem

is that he comes across as one. That statement he made, no matter how he attempts to re-state it, and therefore give it new meaning, sounded elitist which does not play well with people.

Clinton left the country in great shape with a good economy and the nation at peace. What could they do with Gore? The painted him as an elitist with Bush as the good ol boy you want to drink beer with. And it worked (with the help of the media, of course). They did the same thing with Kerry. Kerry out sailboarding while Bush is cutting brush and drinkin a brewski.

The problem is that the citizens do not want someone who looks down upon them. Obama said a stupid thing that made him look like he does indeed look down upon them.

[Danger Mouse]

7. Fair enough...

and i agree that he used a poor choice of words, even if i agree with what he said.

[Windy]

8. The effects of NAFTA/GAT took years to come to fruition.

We are paying the price for Clinton's economic policies now!

I have yet another friend who lost their job here in Michigan. He worked for a second tier auto supplier who decided to close here and open in Mexico!

On another note,Obama an elitist? Don't think so!

He was raised by a single mom and grandparents. He put himself through school and he and his wife had to pay back massive student loans. His uptick in income over the last few years came from his book sales. He could have chosen a high powered job working for a silk stocking lawfirm out of Harvard, but didn't and chose to work as a community organizer instead.

Compare and contrast to the Clintons....

No comparison!

[Evergreen Emerald]

12. Ya know, Nafta turned out badly in a number of ways, but it actually

was a good idea, if the safeguards had been in place. But, this was a significant piece of legislation that many many people supported, including Obama.

So, STOP with the lies and distortions. The right-wing talking point for the last eight years of the Bush administration was that ITS ALL CLINTON'S FAULT. Everything Bush did wrong--he blamed on Clinton: economy, size of the military, Bin Laden.

YOu are wrong. It is not all Clinton's fault. Get off the right-wing lie.

[cliffordu]

81. Ahem - Wrong, as usual,

The NAFTA exodus took almost five years to be felt because it took businesses that long to move out of the US and cut the work force here.

Steel manufacturers cut overhead, wages, jobs and finally collapsed after about five or 6 years.


Nafta passed and was signed in 1994.

Everybody likes to say that 9/11 messed up our economy. Not really true. It was NAFTA, signed by your boyfriend, backed by his little woman, the one trying to look presidential.

Oh, yeah, and Bush is a complete fucking idiot who profiteered along with every other Republican through what NAFTA brought...with foreign investments.

Cheers!!!

:hi:

[YOY]

5. It doesn't matter if they are or not!

The point is that Obama, the multiracial guy from Hawaii from a seemingly middle-class family is far more eliteist than the legacy who has actually lived in the Whitehouse.

:sarcasm:

[Lerkfish]

9. wow

my list keeps growing every day.

[YOY]

14. Lerk.

It's me. Can't you detect the sarcasm?

Can someone PM Lerk and tell him to put one of the people who usually agrees with him off of "ignore"? He made a bad call there.

[Lerkfish]

24. heh, sorry dude

I read the post and not the author. didn't catch the sarcasm. My bad.

[YOY]

26. Watch them pistols cowboy!

You're gotta look b'fore you shoot!

[Lerkfish]

28. LOL! true that.

I"m just a little more piqued than usual at all the "bittergate" bullshit.

[YOY]

32. I'm just pissed at the combination of

1. The sheet hypocrisy of the "elitist" statements coming from Hillary to Obama.

2. The Hillary folks inability to stop with the scorched earth tactics. I'm really not feeling sorry for any "Republican light" sentiments anymore. It's beyond name calling and into reality.

3. The fact that some DUers exist ONLY to post those hit jobs.

I firmly believe that she is done and there isn't a goddamn thing she or they can do about it.

[Lerkfish]

35. agreed. its so obviously a scorched earth campaign at this point that they are

writing mccain ads for him.

ironic, since in the beginning all the clinton supporters here would accuse you of being a republican for NOT supporting her.

my, how the eagles have come home to roost.

[YOY]

85. I'm just having fun on a slow day at work with them

It's priceless everything they try to insult with.

[bklyncowgirl]

84. It's the ability to act like a regular person to voter's face that works in American Politics

It doesn't matter if your policies actually screw the average American every which way to Sunday, what matters is an ability to carry of an effective impersonation of a sort of voter that you secretly intend to throw under the bus.

George W. Bush is an extreme example of this as is Ronald Reagan. I keep hearing right wing pundits talking about how natural Reagan appeared at some bar in Philly. Good God, folks, Reagan was an actor by profession. Bush on the other hand may just be a sociopath.

[Beacool]

10. They don't court the voters while making snide remarks behind their backs

to fat cats at a fundraiser in Frisco, thinking that it wouldn't get out and that the public at large wouldn't hear about them.

When he said the "bitter" comments, it was in response to someone's question as to why he was doing poorly with blue collar workers in PA. Well, if he thought that being called bitter and basically bigots was going to endear him to the average folk in PA, then he should have heard the remarks from people this past weekend in the Berks County - Lehigh Valley area. To put it mildly, people were not amused.

[ginnyinWI]

19. Bob Herbert was on Morning Joe today.

He thinks that it's silly for anyone to believe that Obama looks down on anyone. He says that the remarks were phrased badly, and it is what politicians tend to do when exhausted. That makes a lot of sense. He probably said "clinging to ..." and didn't catch how that sounded. Otherwise he'd have corrected himself right away.

If you read the whole thing and get the context, he was saying that they vote on those issues rather than their economic needs. Which is a lot more consistent with other things he's been campaigning on.

HRC has done this before. She deliberately mis-construed Kerry's botched joke and piled on, after the RW had brought it up as an issue. She didn't need to do this, and it just looked very bad. That was when I turned against her. I can't stand that kind of back-stabbing.

[Evergreen Emerald]

23. oh stop. "HRC has done this before"

No matter how many times he tries to restate what he said, it will not change.

To think that a politician in a campaign would not seize upon this--like the Obama camp has done with every phrase out of her mouth--is just silly.

She is doing nothing more than Obama has done. Stop with the "she is evil and his is an angel" mem...It is baloney.

[Beacool]

29. Well, a lot of regular people then "misconstrued" his words.

Frankly, I don't care what the MSM says anymore. They've been in the tank for Obama for months now and I can't bother listening to most of them. Particularly MSNBC and even CNN.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

39. Amen

I totally agree with that. As a matter of fact, I believe CNN is the worst one. Wolf Blitzer and Caferrty both have dissed Hillary so much, while praising Obama. Caferrty even said he wouldn't vote for her. Journalists, or reporters aren't supposed to show their bias for or against. Several of them really should be fired in IMO.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Psst! Hillary is a fatcat.

Carry on.

[Beacool]

30. Psst, she didn't put down her party's base.

That's the difference.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. Good point.

I have yet to see her put down Republicans. You're absolutely right.

:thumbsup: for the truth.

[Beacool]

58. Oh yeah, she's such a Repug.

You people are way too funny. LOL!!!!!

[barb162]

45. Pssst,Obama is a fatcat

living in a huge mansion, he has a huge income, etc.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

51. He attended very expensive schools

To me he complains too much about his father being absent. My son's father was absent too, but he doesn't complain. He is younger than Senator Obama. Obama needs to accept that he had a white upbringing and more priveleges than a lot of white or black folks. He certainly went to better schools than anyone in my family, my large family.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

53. Let's see:

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, reported assets of between $456,000 and $1.1 million, making it unclear if he is a millionaire. He and his wife had total income of $984,000 in 2006, including $567,000 in royalties for two books he has written. In 2005, Obama received a $1.9 million book advance.

______________________________________________________________________________________________


Clinton reported her assets at $10 million to $50 million, a figure which includes the wealth of her husband, former President Bill Clinton. McCain reported his assets at $21 million to $32 million.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/17/candidates.wealth/index.html

Surprise of surprises, Hillary underreported by a factor of 2 or 10. :eyes:
And McCain left Cindy out. :eyes:

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

48. I was angry

But not bitter at Obama's comments. I was amused at his lack of experience in dealing with working people. There are more of us than his liberal backers. I support Senator Clinton all the way, and pray she wins. She can handle McCain or anyone else.

[demokatgurrl]

11. Could we please (Hillary included) STOP

using this Republican neo-con slur "elitist" against fellow Democrats?
What the hell was she thinking, to say that? Will we be seeing her at a NASCAR event next?

[splat]

13. They can bowl?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

25. Even Nixon could bowl

and pretty well, too

[splat]

42. Yup, no elitist there, he whipped up the "Silent Majority" who felt dissed by Dems

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. HRC doesn't cling to her faith or patronize conservatives.

These two were raised differently.

[TheUniverse]

20. I think its safe to say every credible presidental candidate ever has been an elitist

[barb162]

34. I think that's not safe to say at all.

[LeFleur1]

78. NO...

not Jackson :)

[TheUniverse]

82. I think the Cherokee would disagree!

[SeaLyons]

21. Elitist = Out of touch arrogance

That's Obama.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

67. Arrogant? No, just uppity.

And we can't have that. :sarcasm:

[rodeodance]

27. OH STOP Calling OUT Hillary Supporters!! Do your own reseach!! *********

[Danger Mouse]

37. i'm not calling out anyone...

i'm asking a question.
:)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

31. The way I see it it's bigger than how they aren't elitist. That really doesn't matter.

In the end this is a wedge that the Republicans own. Period. They'll be able to spin and twist it to exclude McCain, or any other of their fold. They always have. Their voters refuse to see one of their own as an "elitist" by the Republican definition of the word. Which for those who are curious is anyone running for office as a Democrat. They're too smart, too liberal, too articulate, too out of touch with voters.

Hillary will be taken to task for her elitist ways just the same as Obama when doing so suits the needs of the Republicans. Which it doesn't at the moment. She's even set herself up for one hell of an elitist spanking with her recent duck hunting claims and her field trip to the bar. We all remember how they twisted such things around on Kerry.

The real issue here is that some Democrats are actually falling into an old Republican trap...again. Just like some others do when they bring up Monica or Clinton's penis. It's self-destructive and foolish. Good luck explaining that to some of the people around here though.

I've said from the beginning, 2008 is ours to lose. I'll be damned if we're not trying our hardest to make that happen.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

43. Drinks at the bar

She looked real comfortable to me. I don't consider it a boilermaker like I used to drink. I poured my whiskey in my beer. That is a boilermaker. I must say she didn't blink when she knocked back that whiskey. It strangles me to drink whiskey. As for hunting, I don't doubt that she went hunting. I hunt, my daughter hunts. I don't see how that could be used against her by McCain. It would alienate more women and make them vote for Hillary. Both Senators - Obama and Clinton should speak on the issues. I don't really care if they hunt, bowl, or drink whiskey. Senator Clinton is 20 points ahead of Senator Obama right at this time, and I do believe his perception as he voiced it, of average Americans hurt him. Especially with the hunters, and the really religious persons like myself.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

57. You've not been paying attention to recent politics if you really don't see how her bar field trip

and her hunting story will be used against her. Do you recall 2004 and what they did to Kerry over his hunting? Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Like I said above, the Republicans created the elitist meme, the own it. Open your mind and look beyond the primary, because my post was not about the primary.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

64. Don't understand your comments

We are still in the primary stage. I don't remember the specific Kerry hunting incident or what happened. He was obviously mad fun of all the time for everything he did or said. That is what usually happens during the run-up to the GE. The republicans are good at it, I ignore that. Intelligent people want to know the candidates position on issues we have facing our nation. I'm sure Hillary was invited to drink a beer. I see nothing wrong with her having a beer. That just goes right over my head. A few people who are bitterly against alcoholic beverages and think it is sinful may vote against her for drinking.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

71. You're right, you don't understand.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

I just noticed you're new. :)

[barb162]

33. Elitism is a way of thinking. Obama demonstrates it over and over.

Clinton and McCain don't demonstrate it. It's as simple as that.

[Lerkfish]

36. well, since clinton will lose, I suppose that means you'll vote for mccain?

since you admire him so much?

are you sure you don't mean Obama is too "uppity"?

[barb162]

44. State in my post where I "admire him so much"

State in my post where I mean "Obama is too "uppity"

or shut up.

[Lerkfish]

50. abracadabra

Elitism is a way of thinking. Obama demonstrates it over and over.

Edited on Tue Apr-15-08 10:45 AM by barb162
Clinton and McCain don't demonstrate it. It's as simple as that.

1. you purport to know Obama's thoughts, label them as "elitist" (code word for the bigots out there to fill in with "uppity"), and then excuse both Clinton and McCain from that label.

IMHO: the burden of proof is on YOU for your assertion that Obama is "elitist" and Clinton and McCain are not.

for my part, I can point to several elitist actions on the part mccain very easily:

1. McCain and Bush were laughing and eating cake at the most expensive digs in california to celebrate McCain's birthday while predominantly african americans were dying in New Orleans. can't get much more elitist than that.


balls in your court.

[barb162]

92. Silly post you have there. Elitism is not a code word for uppity

The rest is equally ridiculous. WHere was Obama when African Americans and White Americans wer dying in NOLA? Dining with his criminal buddy Rezko? Why do you even bring up the Katrina episode

Look up the word "elitist" in a dictionary. Obama's arrogance and elitism have nothing to do with the color of his skin or his wealth (and he is pretty wealthy). Plenty of wealthy black and white people aren't arrogant or elitist. Your bringing up "uppity" is pretty shabby and incorrect and a total sham argument.

[Lerkfish]

89. hey, I answered your query and instead YOU shut up instead of me

wassamatta u? eh?
can't handle the truth.

[barb162]

91. You evidently wouldn't know it if it hit you in your face

[Hepburn]

46. IMO, you have the latest code figured correctly.

Elitist = uppity.

The people going on about this make me ill. All too transparent what they are really saying.

[Lerkfish]

47. yep, its blatantly transparent.

:puke:

[Moderate-Democrate]

49. They are not snobish

[uponit7771]

52. There 100's of millions of dollars between the 2 of em is worth less because of inflation? Jus tryin

...to help the HRC supporters...they're sounding really stupid

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

55. My take

An elitest thinks they are smarter, or better than other folks. They condescend and look down on those they consider inferior. This statement of his said to me that we are all leaning on our crutches - religion, guns, illegal immigration, or whatever. I don't see how he can talk out of this. His pastor said on TV that anyone should say what they think. But that is an excuse for a lack of manners. Of course I don't say everything I think or I would be in trouble all the time. As would most people. We must think before we speak. I must admit Senator Obama usually does think before he speaks. He pauses a lot and gathers his thoughts, but apparently he slipped up on this one. Obama needs to distance from his pastor.

[B Calm]

59. What did Obama say that was incorrect? Hell I live out in the boondocks

and what he said was spot on!

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

68. Sorry

It did not strike me that way. I am very religious, and I've been that way since I was a small child, long before Obama came on the scene. I have no difficulty separating my religion from my duty to vote for the good of our nation. By nation, I mean all peoples of our nation, and that all peoples should have the same rights, and not more rights. I am religious for the rith reasons, not the wrong ones.

[B Calm]

90. Well my unemployed neighbor is right now shooting his gun in his backyard, and

it wouldn't surprise me at all that his wife inside the house reading the bible.

[BlooInBloo]

62. It's funny watching DUers pretend not to grasp the irony of the Hundred Million Dollar Couple...

.... call Obama "elitist".

OTOH, DUers aren't that bright. Maybe they're not pretending.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

72. The hundred million dollar couple had nothing

before Bill Clinton became president. Since then, he has sold books for millions, and so has she. Bill made 50 million or in that vicinity for speeches last year. He's been out of office for 8 years. If he simply made 50 million a year, for 8 years, that alone would be 400 Million. Without the 29 million he made on books. Or the ten million Hillary's book earned, or other endeavors. I think Bill is a slacker and should have made 400 million. If I could make 50 Million in a year for speaking, I would speak until my throat is raw too.

[Texas Hill Country]

65. money does not equal elitist. and we are not saying he IS elitist, we are saying what he SAID was

and it creates an electiblility issue.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

69. What he said was not elitist; Hillary's and the MSM's spin is duping people

into thinking it was.

[Texas Hill Country]

73. no, actually, what he said was... what he meant may not be.

[Lovesgunslovesgod]

75. I agree

I don't equate money with elitism. It is an attitude. Even the very poor have it sometimes. It is an attitude of I'm better than them. In this case the them just happen to be the religious, the gun owners, those who beseech our politicians to enforce our immigration laws. I don't think he left anyone out of his contemptuous remarks. I'm shocked and stunned.

[wowimthere]

76. And voting for a war doesn't create an eligibility argument? You know how you sound?

[wowimthere]

74. it's the media duping others... not me... Media "elite" are stupid...

untrustworthy and were handed their talking points from their boss, Hillary R. Clinton.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. Crown Royal whiskey.

It's like the Royal Crown soda of the whiskey world.

:P

[wowimthere]

80. People are falling all over themselves talking out of their own asses...

The media hands you Clinton talking points and you fall for it before looking at her own actions. When she was running for the senate as well as during her years as first lady she had the same attitudes she is decrying. People want to miss the point Obama was making. The Republicans do not want to face Obama in the general election because it's not traditional. They don't know how to run against him and if he proves that this mirage will slide away then they have nothing.

Republican shills for Clinton (I am starting to believe that these people who make so much noise are not Clinton supporters but Republicans or Clinton operatives dressed as her supporters) are hammering this because they can't use real issues to run on. It's the same old Bush distraction. Everyone in the country knows what he meant. Even the media. Clinton will take whatever the Republicans will give her. She wants to win at all cost. If the media helps her... Good.

Remember folks the media is still owned by the Right wing. They may not care who wins but they want who ever the nominee is to be dirty come the general.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

87. Agreed. This is bullshit.

We elect presidents based on how somebody spins some comment into making it mean something it doesn't mean and was never intended to mean, and then attaches a label like "elitist" because it's easier than thinking. "Elitist" is the same old stupid right-wing label the Republicans have been trying to stick on Democrats since at least the Nixon administration. It's a damn shame to see an alleged Democrat doing the same thing -- but if you think that, if Hillary manages to win ugly by kneecapping Obama and gets the nomination, McCain and the Republicans won't stick the same latte-liberal elite label on her, with her two mansions and her $109 million and Yale and Wellesley, better think again.

[MethuenProgressive]

86. You confuse wealth with elitism.

There's no worse a snob than a nouveaux riche one.

[Kajsa]

88. Hi Elrond! Do you know where I can find this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5514799&mesg_id=5514799

Unfortunately, this is sinking like a lead balloon.

Oh yes- I agree wholeheartedly with you, my friend!!

Thanks,

:hi: :pals: