"A price to be paid for candor"... I see it happening still.

[madfloridian]

I see it happening this primary as well. We have two candidates I admired, until one began demanding the rules be broken about the FL and MI primaries.

There is no price in the media proper for using words that are more talking points than anything else. The media will play along with that.

There is a price to be paid for going off script. Obama tried to show that people vote against their best interests because of wedge issues. I remember when Dean tried to appeal to those in the South who voted that way....he got crucified as well.

But there is no price to be paid for pandering. That is sad.

I remembered this, and it stuck in my brain. From 2004.

From You Have the Power,Fall 2004.

P. 124, 125

Although I was often criticized during the campaign for coming on so strongly, I think Americans desperately want a president who will clearly, forcefully, and unambiguously state their case. George Bush's greatest strength, despite being wrong on virtually every issue of long-term importance to the country, is that he always speaks with conviction in defending his policies.

"For Democrats to offer voters significant change over the long term, we need to say what we mean and not be afraid of the consequences. But there is a price to be paid for candor, as I and others inclined to speak our minds have discovered the hard way. There is no reward now in politics for saying what you think. On the contrary in the go-along-get-along world of Washington, politicians are penalized for saying what they believe; and insincerity is the culture of the currency.

America's politicians attack one another by day and slap one another on the back by evening. They can play this game because they know their fighting words have no real meaning. And the media play right along, reporting on the game as though it were a story of substance. Indeed the game becomes the story, and discussions of substance are relegated to the newspapers' inside pages if indeed they are covered at all."

History is repeating itself. He was right.

[Symarip]

1. I said the same thing when I first heard his 'bitter' remarks

Kind of sad. The problems we need to address become problems because they're addressed. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[madfloridian]

2. If real problems get addressed, the attacks begin.

Doesn't matter how you say it, carefully or not. You have to end up saying you did not word it just right. Sad.

[Catherina]

3. Rec'd. Yes it is sad. It's deplorably and intolerably sad n/t

[madfloridian]

27. We have no media, just a bunch of clowns.

I turned off the debate and wrote ABC about their "gotcha" sessions...then I donated to Obama.

[JeffR]

4. Damn.

Consistently the astuteness of your analysis falls on many deaf ears here. Maybe you should be working for the Obama campaign directly. You'd be a hell of an asset.

I've haven't missed my native Florida in many years, but it's heartening to know there are Floridians of intelligence and sensitivity and perceptiveness still there.

Thank you.

[madfloridian]

5. Well, it is because I hold the record for being on ignore lists.

But that's okay. I am pretty outspoken.

Dean said that in 2004. He knew what happened to him. He was too blunt and candid.

[thoughtcrime1984]

6. And candidness is why I appreciate Dean and Obama so much.

Great topic!

[madfloridian]

7. I agree.

:hi:

[JeffR]

9. Anyone who has you on ignore is an eejit

but of course, there are plenty of eejits around these days.

[madfloridian]

10. They do though. Facts hurt.

Truth is painful. I understand, but I am not kidding myself.

[JeffR]

11. America can't handle the truth.

At least, not without a lot of kicking and screaming.

[VenusRising]

8. K&R

The media needs a big ol' cup of STFU.

[2rth2pwr]

12. If a politician believes the voters are too stupid to vote for him because they

are being manipulated by issues that aren't really important, you can bet your ass there will be a price to pay.

[Symarip]

13. You do such a great job, madfloridian

I wish every thread had as much content as you put into yours. Even if someone disagrees with you, no one can deny how well you document your facts and lay out your point.

Cheers, love.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

14. As was stated by others upthread... you always articulate your points

brilliantly, and impart much wisdom in your posts. Thank you.

[madfloridian]

16. That was nice

to say.

It is a terrible commentary on our country. I often go back and read Dean's book. There is no bitterness in it. He knew it was his blunt talk. His own party could not handle it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

15. As Gore Vidal famously said, most political commentary is just theater criticism. nt

[NC_Nurse]

17. Spot on. As usual.

:thumbsup:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. actually, its hard being honest, but it IS paying off for Obama

and thanks to Mad Floridian helping us spread the truth about the
Florida Primary mess, Dean is going to emerge victorious too.

Once President Obama is in office, people will be grateful to Dean.

At least most of us.

[madfloridian]

19. "We became afraid of the Right, afraid of the anger, instead of being steadfast we pandered"

I posted this last year, and people got angry. Maybe the truth is becoming more obvious now.

From page 65 of You Have the Power"

SNIP..."We became afraid of the Right, afraid of the anger, and instead of being steadfast, we pandered....The Democratic Party has paid a big price for that. Worse, our people have paid a big price for the collapse of our will to lead. We failed to articulate a vision for American that keyed into Americans' hope of overcoming economic and social instability. ..."

...."By remaining silent about the things that mattered so much to Americans, we allowed ourselves to be painted into a corner and to be defined by the Republican opposition. .."

Politicians playing games...more from the book.

America's politicians attack one another by day and slap one another on the back by evening. They can play this game because they know their fighting words have no real meaning. And the media play right along, reporting on the game as though it were a story of substance. Indeed the game becomes the story, and discussions of substance are relegated to the newspapers' inside pages if indeed they are covered at all."

Gee, not a damn thing has changed.

[TragedyandHope]

20. America is finally ready

for this candidate. The desire to move beyond old politics was beaten down and dormant within the hearts of many of us. Conventional political wisdom wrote him off, but Obama's positive, frank and sincere campaign and his inclusive message of hope has struck a chord which resonates across a broad spectrum of voters. It will not be an easy road, but if we work together, we can do great things. Our moment has arrived.

In spite of the media, we the people are finally choosing to move past the politics of fear.

[madfloridian]

22. I think you are right.

It has taken a long time to get over the politics of fear. Most are past it now.

[Uncle Joe]

21. I believe candor is a necessity for any government to function effectively on behalf of

the people. No government can stand without it for too long because they will totally lose touch with the people and become more vulnerable to corruption, thus rotting from the inside long before barbarians storm the gate.

It's for this reason the cynical powers that be; living by the old adage of rule by division in order to obtain or maintain power are terrified of true honesty and candor. They're in the minority and they know it, rather than adapt to a more equitable form of governing, they continually fall back in to the divide and conquer tactic.

So candor must be attacked, but it can't be attacked head on lest the people awaken as to what's happening, 'hey he's telling the truth, damn him!' or more honorably, 'I disagree with his assessment because..' , so they attack from the flanks by division, it wasn't even bitterness that was attacked. It was the perception of one candidate being apart from the people because he spoke his opinion as to the truth, ironically labeling that candidate as being elite.

I view this as sort of a political martial art of taking your opponent's truth or energy and using that against them. This can work well against an individual opponent particularly when those with the all powerful one way information mega phones can reinforce or echo the attack, but it's a piss poor form of representing the American People's best interest.

Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.

[knixphan]

23. Nail on the head.

But fear not. Obama will avenge Dean.

Onward!

Great post!

[truedelphi]

24. One very good sign was CNN releasing the comments of all the viewers who wrote in

Saying that they were bitter, fed up, mad as hell, sad that their family lost everything because of medical bankruptcies, and because of jobs being overseas. And that they agree with Obama.

I always felt that maybe CNN just made the comments up - but I have never seen them run so many comments that disagree with their CIA crafted "talking points"

[Missouri Blue]

25. Good observation.

As I said, though, if Obama can survive the anger his frankness would cause, he will be the next POTUS. Reason being: if he can call the constituency bitter and though personal ability escape people's consequent anger, he can communicate in the way that no candidate has been able to do for two generations. We're talking communications skills of JFK or FDR here. Forget the Gipper or Bill having this ability. Dean couldn't do it. Think of it as a test.

So far, it has appears he polls better, not worse, in most polls since he made the statement. Clinton can do nothing like this; neither can McCain. If he survives this, he's a shoe-in.

[madfloridian]

26. I agree.

Dean helped ready the country for candor, but most were not there yet.

He had to use other means to change things.

Obama is an orator, and he might be able to do it.

[mnhtnbb]

31. I just hope that Obama is not only talk; we knew Dean was real

and would be able to effect change wherever he landed. He has truly done that in his current job.
I am though, from the school of "watch what they do, not what they say". Oratory not followed by action
can turn out to be nothing but hype.

[Generator]

28. And the candor moments are actually the times

I like Obama the most. I'll vote for him, but I'm not one of the Obama maniacs. When he promises everything but pie for dinner-it's almost too much to take. When he just says what he thinks-I LOVE that. America needs to break this propaganda/fear false mindset. It won't be easy.

The media shit their pants with Dean. It's like the wizard behind the curtain- "WHO DARES TELL THE TRUTH?" He offended someone. Well I've been offended the last many years by real things-not some goddamn word that was used in a sentence wrong or a yell that was too loud. They manufacture the outrage and stoke it for days.

In other words, to quote an old saying, if you aren't bitter in Bush's America you aren't paying attention. And you sure as shit aren't voting for a Democrat anyway.

[madfloridian]

29. I don't know many Obama maniacs.

I know people who support him, but not overboard. I do see some supporters of his opponent who make everyone dead to them who critize her.

[Radical Activist]

30. Hillary is paying the price for pandering right now.

People see her constant shameless pandering and its why she isn't winning the primary despite starting out with every advantage.

[madfloridian]

32. Yes, she did start out with every advantage.

She just stuck to the old ways of doing things.