Bill Clinton: Has he lost his mind? A doctor speaks

[sweetroxie]

Clearly, Bill has not been on his game. Here's one doctor's explanation.

McDougall Breaking News

Bill Clinton’s Madness: A Consequence of Heart-Bypass
Surgery Brain Damage

We Need to Understand and Show Some Compassion

One of the savviest politicians of our generation, known for his wit, charm, and calm under extreme pressure, Bill Clinton appears out of character in the speeches and interviews televised since his bypass surgery September 6, 2004—and his mental deterioration may be accelerating. Remember, this is the president who withstood public impeachment before the entire world for his relationship with Monica Lewinski without once losing control. Now, he is easily angered by hecklers, and makes factual mistakes and racial slurs while aggressively defending his wife’s campaign for presidency. Everyone sees his mental and emotional decline, yet to date, no medical professionals have spoken out about the cause or offered help.

Not a single one—not one bypass surgeon, cardiologist or psychiatrist—has stepped forward in his defense; even though all of them are trained to recognize “post bypass surgery cognitive dysfunction.” One of the best-kept secrets in medicine is the brain damage caused during bypass surgery. During my 40 years of medical practice I have never heard a doctor warn a patient before bypass surgery that an expected complication is memory loss. After surgery when the family complains of dad’s fits of anger, I have never heard a doctor admit that personality change is a common consequence of surgery. Yet these well-recognized side effects have been reported in medical journals since 1969.1

Brain damage during bypass surgery is so common that hospital personnel refer to it as “pump head.” The primary cause is emboli produced during surgery from clamping the aorta and from the “heart-lung machine.” This machine pumps blood to keep the patient alive while the heart is stopped during the operation. Unfortunately, this pump also introduces toxic gases, fat globules, and bits of plastic debris into the bloodstream of the patient under anesthesia. Once they are in the bloodstream, these particles migrate to the brain where they can clog capillaries and prevent adequate amounts of blood and oxygen from flowing to the brain. Essentially, all patients experience brain emboli during surgery and for many the damage is permanent.

In 2001, an article in the New England Journal of Medicine reported that 5-years after bypass surgery 42% of patients showed decline in mental function of approximately 20 percent or more.2 A study published this year (2008) in the Annals of Thoracic Surgery using MRI testing just after bypass surgery found brain damage in 51% of patients.3 Three years after their time on the bypass pump, significant permanent reduction in mental capacity was identified in 31% of patients. I am not talking major stroke here; but these patients can't remember names or numbers as they once did, experience sleep disturbances (including nightmares), suffer mood swings, and lose intellectual acuity. Approximately 30 percent of people suffer persistent depression and some even contemplate suicide.

Our former president needs our understanding and support. A simple explanation by his doctors of the cause of his recent aberrant behaviors should bring peace of mind to Hillary and her campaign staff. If Mr. Clinton better understood his current limitations, he and his staff could take precautionary steps to avoid embarrassments. A long-overdue explanation would help his adoring public more easily accept his mistakes and readily forgive him. It is not your fault, Mr. Clinton.

As importantly, public recognition of the harm done to Bill Clinton by the heart surgery business would help the patients who undergo bypass surgery, and their families, to better understand similar changes they have experienced. A little attention from the media could also shine some light on the lack of survival benefits from this $90,000 procedure performed nearly half-a-million times annually in the US, and the superior benefits coming from diet and lifestyle changes.

I am saddened to see our former president suffer from public humiliation, but I am disgraced that my profession has thus far failed to come forward with a long over-due explanation and an apology to the Clintons and our nation for the harm they have done and the secrets they have kept.

John McDougall, MD
http://www.drmcdougall.com/


1) Hill JD, Aguilar MJ, Baranco A, de Lanerolle P, Gerbode F. Neuropathological manifestations of cardiac surgery. Ann Thorac Surg. 1969 May;7(5):409-19.

2) Newman MF, Kirchner JL, Phillips-Bute B, Gaver V, Grocott H, Jones RH, Mark DB, Reves JG, Blumenthal JA; Longitudinal assessment of neurocognitive function after coronary-artery bypass surgery. N Engl J Med. 2001 Feb 8;344(6):395-402. 9Link:http://content.nejm.org/cgi/reprint/344/6/395.pdf)

3) Knipp SC, Matatko N, Wilhelm H, Schlamann M, Thielmann M, Lösch C, Diener HC, Jakob H. Cognitive outcomes three years after coronary artery bypass surgery: relation to diffusion-weighted magnetic resonance imaging. Ann Thorac Surg. 2008 Mar;85(3):872-9.

McDougall Wellness Center P.O. Box 14039, Santa Rosa, CA 95402
http://www.drmcdougall.com
©2008 John McDougall All Rights Reserved

[anonymous171]

1. Geez. I hope Bill's alright.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. Dr. Frist, Dr. Frist, paging Dr. Frist n/t

[murielm99]

4. We need a crackpot psychiatrist to help Frist, too.

Of course Bill has to be crazy not to bow down to St. Obama.

[SoCalDem]

13. Yes.. show him the video tape.. It will only take him 30 minutes or so n/t

[polpilot]

41. It's almost like someone's sucked his brains right out of his head.

Maybe?

[greguganus]

113. Maybe it was Monica? n/t

[Cha]

120. Oh I see you support lying, whinging, and posing...

and next to that Obama seems
like a Saint..how sad for you.

[JuniperLea]

11. The difference here being...

this is an actual syndrome that is well documented, if not discussed.

[rinsd]

19. This guy is a loon though.

[JuniperLea]

32. this particular sydrome is very real though

and it would explain the changes we've seen in the Big Dog. not to mention Cheney's stupidity.

[rinsd]

36. I don't doubt the condition's existence. The Frist-style diagnosis is silly.

[JuniperLea]

39. Would you say the same if it were a reference to Dick Cheney?

I've always thought this was part of his deal too.

I love Bill. Always have and always will. I think this is a good explanation for the changes I've seen in his personality.

You don't need to be a brain surgeon to recognize a headache.

[rinsd]

93. Yes.

I find the concept of diagnosis by psychologists or doctors without actually dealing with the patients to be silly.

[JuniperLea]

95. DUers are doing it up and down this thread...

ugh...

[cbayer]

115. Not just silly, but totally unethical. nt.

[roguevalley]

116. this field has been around since the 1940's. Its called profiling.

They started it with hitler and it included his health and projections based on it that turned out 100% accurate. its not silly. its science

[cbayer]

119. I disagree.

This is not profiling, this is diagnosing. It's not science to diagnose someone without examining them. It's unethical. This guy has an agenda and he should be sanctioned.

[Taxmyth]

3. another Bill Frist diagnosis

and of course this physician must have approved of Dr. Frist's involvement in the Terry Schiavo matter.

[stellanoir]

5. This would explain quite a bit.

It's not even remotely a Frist diagnosis.

It merely cites something that could and has occurred post operative by pass surgery.

He's simply not making sense anymore.

[EFerrari]

6. I've asked this question here several times.

And THIS is exactly what I mean about various kinds of mental disorders. They are invisible until they're not AND worse, they are invisible to the very clinicians that we expect to identify them. :grr:

[ShortnFiery]

7. No Slack for Bitter Bubba. he's always been like this only it was directed at the other side.

We've all been punked by The Clintons.

You better believe that the crackerjack surgical team operating on Bill Clinton made sure that his blood was readily pumping and nourishing his brain. Hell, my older brother had this surgery (62 y.o.) and he's as sharp as ever.

Hey Doc? Go Fish! :evilgrin:

[JuniperLea]

16. Not so...

It's the temper and personality change that is apparent. Big Dog was cool as a cucumber before this... even when he was reaming some dumbass.

[EFerrari]

18. If you look carefully, there are moments when he looks

a little confused and vulnerable. He never used to look like that.

[JuniperLea]

34. Exactly...

That must be scary as hell for him.

I'll always respect him, fuck the assholes here to want to condemn. Especially the ones who think NAFTA is responsible for outsourcing our jobs to India and China... dumbasses.

[EFerrari]

38. Alzheimer's runs in part of my family and one of my dear Aunts

is now visibly impaired. It happened so slowly, imperceptibly. It's not the same thing but, I can see how something that starts out invisibly can creep up on a family.

I hope that someone gets a clue soon.

[JuniperLea]

40. Me too...

Someone in the Clinton family needs a dose of pride... I'll always remember Bill as he was. And I'll always be grateful for his presidency. This is pretty sad.

[ShortnFiery]

43. Bullshit! Bill Clinton has always had "a temper" and all who worked for him KNOW that.

No, it's not as HOT as McCain, but it's there.

I know that it's really difficult to realize that Bill Clinton is THE SAME MAN that he was during the 1990s but we didn't notice because all his orchestrated attacks were toward "the media" and "his GOP opponents."

It's hard to realize but albeit intelligent, Bill Clinton has also been one part "horse's ass" as well as "a liar" when he thinks that he can get away with it.

Hell, why do you think that James Carville and Mark Penn was/are part of Bill's inner circle?

I rest my case. :thumbsdown:

[JuniperLea]

51. He managed his temper very well back then... and that is the whole point

He isn't managing it now. There is a clear difference.

[ShortnFiery]

59. Yes, *intense jealousy* of someone younger, more handsome and more personable than you, is UGLY.

And that's what it is - Jealousy.

Both Hill and Bill thought that they'd (yes, THEY) be coronated by Feb 5th.

Come to think of it, in addition to jealous, Bill may also be bitter?

[JuniperLea]

91. Good GAWD

Are you projecting here? Not everyone who ages does so without also maturing to the point where jealousy is seen as the petty and unproductive emotion it is. So, your armchair psychoanalysis is somehow better than Frist AND this OP.

GOOD GAWD... here you have it, folks. DU has officially hit a very new LOW!

:eyes:

[PoliticalAmazon]

8. Sorry, but if Bill is unfit to be on the campaign trail, then he shouldn't be on the campaign trail.

I'm not going to lay down like a doormat and let Bill Clinton insult me and just ignore it.

[JuniperLea]

9. I've witnessed this syndrome personally several times...

The first timw was when my kindly old veterinarian, who would never harm an animal, told me to take my dog out into a field and beat him in the head until he was dead... in front of my three children, all under the age of ten. This, two years after his heart surgery.

Now, think in terms of Dick Cheney and his "go fuck yourself" moment, among others. This man is more powerful than the president, and he's demented, without question.

[EFerrari]

15. This is a new one on me. I had no idea that could happen.

But Bill Clinton has been setting off my alarms for months now.

[JuniperLea]

35. My incredibly brilliant and brave grandfather...

Became horribly suspicious and paranoid after his surgery. It was very sad to see a strong man go through this.

[Lucky 13]

10. I wrote a post a while back searching for some possible reason this is not the Clinton's fault.

I have no excuse for Hillary other than sheer blind narsicism.

The post-heart surgery conditions described here may actually be a solid defense for Bill. He's acted jealous, angry, BITTER, and negative and has been bringing up dead stories like snipergate when it has DEFINITELY been in Hillary's best interest for him NOT to bring that up anymore. It's like he forgot that she lied. Or it's some sort of suspension of disbelief. He's lost the swagger and the sway he once had.

I also have been shocked by the contrast between the tone of his 1992 "I still believe in a place called HOPE" campaign and his tone in this campaign. Besides him actually being ill, I also considered the difference between attacks on YOU and attacks on your wife. I can listen to someone criticize me all day long. I listen to the constructive criticism, but the negativity rolls right off my back. If anyone says anything mean about my girl though, IT'S ON. Could it be that he's just over protective of the women in his life? But if that were true, why would he publicly cheat on her over and over and over again? That would make him a hypocrite, not protective.

I really did used to like the Clintons, and after Edwards dropped I fell somewhat in the Hillary camp. But the NASTINESS from the campaign was enough to turn me off and make me give Obama a second look. It's been hard to watch one of my heroes compromise his legacy. It's hard to know if the man I knew has changed or if I was fooled all along.

:(

[CaliforniaPeggy]

12. Hello! Posted this a couple of days ago...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3157675#top

A lot of folks seem to think that this was a political attack... :eyes:

It is clearly not such...

Good luck!

People need to be informed re the risks of surgery, no matter who's getting operated on...

[JuniperLea]

20. Cheney....

yep

[rinsd]

24. No its a lunactic pretending to be a doctor.

Tells women under 50 not to get mammograms because the stress from getting one outweighs the potential benefits of discovering cancer early.

[MonkeyFunk]

26. Why can't the risks of surgery

be presented without making an unethical and ridiculous diagnosis of a public figure?

[redqueen]

14. Thanks... that would explain a lot.

Sad that this is happening now... but he'll be remembered fondly just the same.

[rinsd]

22. RedQueen read the guy's website

He's a quack doing diagnosis Bill Frist style.

[redqueen]

28. Well I see your point re: Fristian diagnoses...

but if this is indeed a well-known side effect, it doesn't matter who says it, it's a fair point.

[rinsd]

31. Here's his real goal

"As importantly, public recognition of the harm done to Bill Clinton by the heart surgery business would help the patients who undergo bypass surgery, and their families, to better understand similar changes they have experienced. A little attention from the media could also shine some light on the lack of survival benefits from this $90,000 procedure performed nearly half-a-million times annually in the US, and the superior benefits coming from diet and lifestyle changes."

I am all for healthy diet and exercise but this guy's advise is fucking dangerous.

Without a quad bypass my father would have been dead, no matter what he ate or how he worked out.

So maybe I take quacks praying on the desperate a little more personally.

[rinsd]

17. Now we're posting crap from crackpots who hate modern medicine to attack Democrats?

[marshall]

21. That explains Bill's behavior, but what about Hillary's?

Slogging down too much beer and whiskey?

[cooolandrew]

23. As much as I am disappointed with the Clintons, not comfortable to accept this label...

..I'd just say they are overly competitive. Which in some ways is ok but in others not so.

[JuniperLea]

42. That's interesting...

I'm more comfortable with this explanation than with thinking the past was all a sham and we're now seeing the real Bill. Maybe it's because I've seen this post-heart surgery syndrome personally more than a few times.

It's not his fault. And doctors NEVER tell you this is a risk... mainly because it's a fair trade for living longer I guess.

[Bread and Circus]

25. What Dr. McDougall speaks of is real, I've seen it first hand. I'm not convinced it applies to Bill

Clinton in this case. My guess is that he thinks he's being crafty. However, the OP might just be right because Bill Clinton has sounded like an outright clod and a moron for the past few months.

[MonkeyFunk]

27. Cocaine abuse has been shown to cause

neurological damage.

Obama stammers a lot.

Is that an innocent discussion of the perils of the cocaine? No, it's a ridiculous attack.

[redqueen]

29. How is that an attack on Bill?

:wtf:

It seems to me that it's trying to explain why he seems so unlike his former politically-astute self...

[MonkeyFunk]

30. Your innocent act

has become ridiculous.

"Bill Clinton has brain damage" - said by a diet doctor who's never met him, and you think it's not an attack?

[redqueen]

33. You just get meaner and meaner.

It's not an act, but I guess you consider me to be stupid... so I guess we're just done till this is over.

FWIW I don't consider "brain damage" to be some awful stigma. Which is why I called it a SIDE EFFECT and didn't use loaded terms that carry a stigma.

But whatever... nevermind.

He's doing this unbelievably fucking stupidass shit on purpose, cause he wants his wife to FAIL. Does that make you happy?

[MonkeyFunk]

50. Redqueen,

you like to pretend that you're so fair and evehanded, but you endorse bullshit like this, and you do it every day. You support the most egregious nonsense and then pretend not to know what you're doing. It's bullshit.

This doctor is a diet quack who has NO RIGHT to diagnose Bill Clinton. None whatsoever, and ANY democrat should be appalled at this.

You keep kicking another thread that implies Hillary is a closet fundamentalist theocrat - a story that's been posted here regularly for months now. Do you BELIEVE that she's secretly anti-gay, anti-choice and wants to impose a Christian government? I bet you dont' believe that - but you have no problem advancing the notion in the service of your candidate.

Sorry hon, I've always liked you, but that behavior is despicable in my opinion.

[redqueen]

60. I'm not endorsing bullshit.

Jesus. Do you see everything so black and white?

I'll say it again: IF this guy is right about the SIDE EFFECT then MAYBE that might explain Bill's recent out-of-character behavior. It doesn't matter to me what else the guy says, because it's not about the guy who wrote this, but the SIDE EFFECT.

As for the other thread, can I not be suspicious about why the M$M was drooling and slobbering over Wright but ignores her connection to a group that openly claims to want to influence government and also requires that their memebers keep their goings on a secret? I don't see where you infer that she's a "closet fundamentalist theocrat"... that's just spin. All that thread is doing is pointing out her equally questionable associations... and considering how much BS was spewed about Wright, I think it's entirely fair to wonder why the same isn't done to her about her associations. Quit with the spin, and then maybe we can have a DISCUSSION.

Honestly, I don't expect you to take me up on that.

[MonkeyFunk]

83. Then I presume there'll be no objection

if I post a thread positing that Obama is suffering from cocaine-induced brain damage? That cocaine causes brain damage is REAL, dammit!

[redqueen]

90. What's the evidence?

Bill has been publicly showing off his out-of-characterness for all to see.

If you feel there is evidence of whatever it is you're talking about then go right ahead.

As for me all I ever thought cocaine abuse caused was a flaming case of assholeness.

Do you think Obama didn't just use cocaine, but abused it?

[MonkeyFunk]

97. No evidence for Clinton, either

you're just putting the worst spin on it.

Poor Barack. I hope his kids will be OK, having a brain-damaged junkie for a daddy. :cry:

[redqueen]

101. Oh yeah, it's just me. It's not like anyone else thinks he's acting out of character.

I'm done trying to talk to you.

[JuniperLea]

81. I think Dick Cheney suffers this malady too...

As did my grandfather, my great aunt, my vet, among others in my life. I don't think it's harsh at all, and I don't see where it warrants stigma either.

I've not agreed with much of what redqueen has said recently... but we aren't mean to each other. And I agree with this assessment.

If we were talking about Dick Cheney, how would you feel?

[ginnyinWI]

111. I've posted on this before

They say Cheney got a lot more paranoid and hawkish after his heart surgery, and I see a definite change in Bill Clinton now, too. His charm has gone and been replaced by crabbiness.

[JuniperLea]

80. Well said

There is a big difference in the way he acts now. He always had a temper, but you could see him manage it and keep himself in check. The barbs were there, no question (I loved that about him), but he was so cool butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.

I'll always admire and respect Big Dog... the current tide makes no difference to me. I don't think Hillary would be anywhere near the president Bill was.

[redqueen]

92. Actually the wording of the subject line & the title of the piece...

are slanted and ugly... but as for the attempt to explain his behavior, I really didn't see it as an attack.

Regarding the subject line and title though, MF has a point.

[JuniperLea]

94. Sure they are... the OP was designed as a slam, no question about that...

What they didn't realize is that there are many here who know how to look beyond the rubbish to see the flower;)

[Writer]

57. MonkeyFunk, why would you even go there?

I think that's completely over the line, and I'm a devout Clinton supporter.

[MonkeyFunk]

85. I'm not going there

I'm using at as an example of a ridiculous smear that has as much basis as this one does. I'm pointing out how stupid and offensive it is.

[crankychatter]

37. Moral "hair" - Obama's got it... Bill lost it - but WE are screwed up

When a well known leader has a medical problem... it's considered to create a loss in public esteem...

All that goddamn Machismo... look at Putin in Russia, strutting his shit... or any other State "strongman."

If they have a problem, it's treated like a deep state secret...

YOU CAN'T FIX A PROBLEM IF YOU CAN'T ADMIT THAT IT EXISTS

that's what sux

Look at FDR and the crazy games HE had to play with his disease... to keep "Public Confidence."

[housewolf]

44. Holy Cow!

I've never heard of this before. This is stunning.

[Avalux]

45. Only a theory without a thorough exam and testing. I have another theory.

Bill Clinton is aging, is no longer president and is no longer the center of attention. He is watching his legacy and his future drift away with every misstep from his wife's campaign.

This was supposed to be a shoe-in for Hillary; she was to be president, cement the Clintons as THE presidential family and perhaps erase the ugliness that occurred at the end of Bill's time in office.

On top of that, a young man named Barack Obama is challenging Bill Clinton as the most gifted speaker/politician in modern times and beating the snot out of Hillary.

THAT is what's getting to him - his ego can't take it.

[murielm99]

65. This is so incredibly stupid.

Bill Clinton is 62. That is by no means elderly, especially these days.

I am sure he had the best surgeons in the world. It is very unlikely that anything went wrong. Surely it would have been noticed and commented on before now, considering the way the Clintons are always under the microscope. And if there was anything, believe me, his doctors would have had him back in for exams and treatments faster than you or I could even get an appointment.

Obama is nothing compared to Bill. Obama stammers and stutters if he does not have notes in front of him. Bill always could, and still does speak extemporaneously on almost any subject. Unlike Obama, he does not need notes.

Any smear works for the Obama supporters. Nothing is too low for them.

[NoodleyAppendage]

46. BULLSHIT. As a researcher on this very topic...any effects are typically only acute.

Mark Newman's study showed that ONLY those patients who showed an initial cognitive decline post-op were at greater risk for cognitive decline 5-years post-op. His study is the ONLY study to show such a longitudinal consequence and is not accepted as gospel among the reseachers looking into post-operative cognitive decline (POCD). Clinton likely had the best-of-the-best treatment, and I would be very surprised if he experienced any significant acute post-operative cognitive issues.

More likely is the prospect that Clinton's RAMPANT NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER is the etiological cause of his personal and political problems...as evinced by prior behavior and incidents.

J

[msallied]

49. THANK YOU! My thoughts exactly.

Particularly on the narcissism. I personally think he's a sociopath, but that's par for the course for most people who accrue that much power/influence/money.

[NoodleyAppendage]

70. Narcissistic and psychopathic personality disorders are on the same spectrum.

Borderline and histrionic personality disorders are also on this Cluster B spectrum. There are three cluster types (A, B, C), generally grouped based upon the commonalities in behavior, interpersonal dynamics, and (possibly) neurological underpinnings.

See here for more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder

[msallied]

74. I'm a psychology student. I'm familiar. :)

[JuniperLea]

52. Oh really? Well I'm a heart surgeon and I say you are full of shit

:eyes:

I've seen this happen with my own eyes.


"More likely is the prospect that Clinton's RAMPANT NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER is the etiological cause of his personal and political problems...as evinced by prior behavior and incidents."

This is far more Frist-esque than the article in the OP!

[msallied]

56. It's much easer to render a psychological diagnosis

through the media than it is a physiological one, which this condition seems to be for the most part (being caused by emboli and such). What we're seeing either way is some pretty erratic, strange behavior from Bill Clinton, something I think is more easily attributed to the unfulfilled wants of his gigantic ego.

[Writer]

61. Actually "unfulfilled wants of his gigantic ego" isn't a medical diagnosis as well...

but a politically-convenient diagnosis.

[msallied]

67. I wasn't making a medical diagnosis.

We are all engaging in pure conjecture here. But I think that one theory is easier to swallow than another, if I had to pick one.

[Writer]

71. I'd rather listen to doctors and let them sort this out...

I have noticed his temperament on the campaign trail, but I attributed it to frustration than to anything medical.

I'd like to know if Bill Clinton may actually suffer from this. It looks like there may be good reason to believe he does.

[NoodleyAppendage]

76. I have wondered if he has a problem with Hillary succeeding (on a deeper level).

Bill's not used to playing second fiddle in their relationship, so I wonder if the prospect of his become "First Husband" is a bit uncomfortable psychologically.

[msallied]

77. I wouldn't doubt that, but I also believe

that he feels in such a dynamic that he would be an awfully powerful player behind the scenes and could actually get away with more without having to be nearly as accountable as he did as President.

[NoodleyAppendage]

75. Really. So do you prefer on- or off-pump procedures? Also...

Which do you find more problematic, valve replacement or quad CABG, in terms of acute recovery course? Do you routinely record doppler events and correlate them with recovery course?

J

[NoodleyAppendage]

78. Crickets chirping incessantly...

I thought so.

[EFerrari]

53. "Typically" "The only study to show" "I would be very surprised"

So, you don't really know, do you? And you don't know about other co-occurring situations.

But, you feel free to pathologize his personality and, collaterally, to insult people with personality disorders.

Cool.

[NoodleyAppendage]

63. Considering I have a PhD in clinical neurosciences and psychology...yes. n/t

J

[EFerrari]

68. So, when your premise is as full of holes as Swiss cheese,

you hide behind your degree?

Oh, please. That should be beneath you.

[NoodleyAppendage]

72. It is not full of holes. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Bill Clinton lied to the nation about an adulterous affair he had with an underling without batting an eye. What more do you need to classify sociopathic and narcissistic behavior in this regard?

Regarding the prospect of POCD, I will concede that I have no evidence (MRIs or cognitive data) to indicate that his acute recovery course was not problemmatic. If it was then any noticable effects would likely be seen only in the first 6-weeks or so from the surgery, but given the Newman data there would be a risk that the cognitive effects seen post-op would return at 5 years out. Whether this is the case or not could probably be excluded or substantiated based upon Clinton's behavior and activity levels post-op. I'm sure the media covered him and his activities post-op. If he came out of post-op not missing a beat and appearing very cognitively intact, then the theory proposed by McDonald is bullshit.

J

[EFerrari]

82. Exactly. You have no evidence and worse, you are discounting

behavior that is anomalous -- behavior inconsistent with past behavior.

I'm sorry if I'm being harsh. But the man is obviously not functioning as well as he did pre-op. (And, iirc, the media wasn't focused on Clinton at the time, but on the contenders in that race. Can you see how a deficit could have remained under the radar?)

Something is going on with Bill Clinton. And, gawd knows, I'm no Clinton apologist. Ask any Clinton supporter.

You know, NA, this is where I come from: I have "radar" from living with a parent who had episodes. So, over the years, I developed some strange kind of alarm system when there was a change. My survival depended on it and so did my little brother's. (There must be a name for that besides dingbat,lol.) But, I've found that it's pretty accurate. When the belly flips, it turns out later, there has been a change. :shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

79. I'm impressed (and I'm rarely impressed). This lowly Masters Level Psychology Grad concurs with

your thoughtful commentary. :thumbsup:

[NoodleyAppendage]

100. Don't discount your accomplishments. MA are hard fought degrees too. n/t

J

[JuniperLea]

66. Well said...

Nicely done.

[DevonRex]

55. Thank you. nt

[redqueen]

69. Thanks...

I appreciate your adding some scientific info on this.

[Eurobabe]

89. ...

:thumbsup:

[msallied]

47. Let's say this is 1000% true

That Bill Clinton is suffering from bypass surgery-induced "pump head" and is suffering from cognitive deterioration as a result. (For the record, I think it's .0001% true).

If this is the case, he should get the hell off the stump. He should be informed that he is hurting her campaign more than helping it. That he's being an asshole. To say it's not his fault is taking it too far. No, it's not his fault that he has a potential condition that is affecting him mentally, but it is his fault if he doesn't remain accountable for it. It's the same with people who are clinically depressed. Yes, it's a real condition and no, it's not something you can just zap yourself out of, but it should not be used as an excuse or a crutch to make you completely unaccountable for your actions.

[EFerrari]

54. I'm always amazed that people don't seem to get

that when your awareness is diminished, your awareness is diminished. :wtf:

[msallied]

58. If you are aware enough to know you have a disorder and formulate your life and actions around it

then you are aware enough to seek treatment for it.

It's all a matter of making the harder choice (i.e. getting treatment).

[EFerrari]

64. Exactly. And that's a big fat If.

I lived with someone who lost his insight nearly completely. Getting mad at him didn't help in the least. That's when you need people around you to step in and figure out how to get that insight back.

You know, people don't CHOOSE to lose their insight. They are not in "denial". Their brain fucks up on them.

Damn. Blame the victim to the max.

[msallied]

73. Not expecting some form of accountability from the afflicted

merely enables them on a behavioral level to remain complicit and even comfortable with their disorder. So your idea of treatment for a psychological illness would be to just let the person have their "loss of insight" as you call it, simply because it's "out of their control" that they have it in the first place?

They may have lost insight, but they haven't lost IQ points. I find your viewpoint to not only be more damaging to the person, but also to be insulting to them. You'd rather tell them that it's okay to just give up. To allow their affliction to completely rule them, and to give them a pass on every single shitty thing they do simply because they have a disease? If that should be the status quo, then we should just nix the idea of treatment altogether for every single disease from cancer to alcoholism, and start treating grown adults like infants. The ONLY people who have complete loss of insight are people with severe schizophrenia/psychosis, severe brain damage, or people who have lost the ability to distinguish between right and wrong as individually judged in the criminal/clinical setting.

[EFerrari]

84. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I hope nothing like this ever happens to you and I hope your family is much more empathetic than you seem to be.

[pompano]

48. Having to accept no...

for an answer for the first time in ones recent political life probably doesn't help either.

I think Bill sees in Obama what he always wanted to be. Nasty politics, corporate cronyism and the way of doing things in Washington eventually bled through the facade and both Bill and Hill became whats wrong with Washington, not what the other way around. America figured out what was wrong with good'ol politics about 2 years to early for another Clinton legacy.

Hell! I am not so sure I wouldn't be turning purple and snapping at people either. The sheeple were bound to wake up sooner or later. It just so happened they did right before the legacy continued. So be it. America's better days are ahead.

[graycem]

62. I don't know who this guy is

and I won't bother since from some descriptions he seems like a quack as others have pointed out. I will say that this did happen to my mother and her surgeon didn't address it before the surgery, but he did after the surgery, and he told her it was normal and will likely fade over time. She's a very mild mannered, soft spoken lady, but this surgery did change her. She's experienced a shorter temper and various other mood swings, a lot of crying. I don't know if I believe it is because of "pump head" more than psychological, just the stress of having your heart disconnected from your body. Whatever the reason, it does happen in some people, and while it doesn't excuse behavior, it could explain behavior.

[ShortnFiery]

86. I'd suggest that Bill Clinton is "the same as he ever was" but that WE democrats did not pay close

attention to the thoughts and feelings of the GOP. Yes, many of the attacks were well deserved, but I'm getting a greater appreciation of how the Clintons antics (self-righteous indignation and perpetual victimhood) during the 1990s helped nurture BITTERNESS among republicans for both them and our party.

As my beloved father used to say, "It's not smart to tickle a wild bear in the ass."

I never (not ever) have gone out of my way to OVERTLY "stir up shit" with right wing neighbors.

Yeah, I own guns, but they have MORE munitions ... lots more. :scared: ;)



Like Bugs Bunny vs. Elmer Fudd we have to outsmart them. Why? We can't allow our moral compasses to go off path ... lest we morph into "The Clintons." (Two people that the GOP despises with a passion.)

[EFerrari]

87. It's possible for the Clintons to be ALL OF THOSE THINGS

& for there to be something clinically wrong with Bill Clinton.

Good God. No wonder this country is so fucked up.

[yellerpup]

88. How sad.

I always loved that guy.

[ladywnch]

96. thank you so much for this info. my father had quadrupal bypass 6 years ago

and he has never been the same mentally. My mother has been in a slow panic for several years now thinking he had alzhiemers, or dementia, or some kind of stroke. He's had tons of tests and doctors...all say nothing is wrong. My dad had always been frightfuly sharp with numbers and calculations, never forgot a face or a name now he struggles with all of it. Everything you referenced in your post has been witnessed by mother. While this info isn't going to help him it at least gives my mother some piece of mind that she's not 'losing' him.

[dsc]

98. My dad had his first, of two, bypass surgeries when I was in eighth grade

I am now forty. I am beyond offended at this post. You are a shameful, mean, sick person.

[Zodiak]

102. Who are you talking to? The OP?

I am a heart patient and found this article to be very informative. I had not idea there was such a condition as "pump head", but considering that I will have a bypass at some point in my life, knowing the existence of such a condition is helpful to me.

And the article says that some patients get this, not all....so you can lose the manufactured outrage about your dad because it wasn't directed at him.

[Darth_Kitten]

117. WHAT?

There ARE changes that occur. What are you so offended and calling the OP a mean, sick person?

Sounds like you have some chip on your shoulder.

[applegrove]

99. I've heard of that before.

[SwampG8r]

103. wow

:wow:

[springhill]

104. Oh Brother!

[barack the house]

Please tlet this on sink calling bill crazy won't help at all. Even if a doc says so.

[barack the house]

105. Please tlet this on sink calling bill crazy won't help at all. Even if a doc says so.

[Darth_Kitten]

107. Learn something about bypass surgery......

and it's effects on those who have it. It's an eye-opener.

[Darth_Kitten]

106. My Mom was talking to me about this...........

My Dad had triple bypass surgery a couple of years ago, spoke of the changes that happen. Depression, personality changes, etc.

I can believe it.

[suston96]

108. I had double by-pass and was on the pump......

...but I have the same mental abilities I had before the procedure.

I don't believe...I don't believe..., uh - what's his name again? You know, the President who was impeached...I don't believe he has suffered any mental impairment. But I am sure he misses those Big Macs.

[ecstatic]

109. I asked if his health was affecting his behavior-the thread was locked

of course, and I was attacked. But I had to ask because his behavior was so unlike the Bill I had grown up seeing.

[TragedyandHope]

110. Sad, if true

It would sure explain a lot.

[Imagevision]

112. To me, Bill only seems out of touch when attempting to 'help' Hillary's campaign

[EFerrari]

114. When else do we see him, though? Sometimes sitting at

ceremonies?

[cbayer]

118. This is a lot of BS.

Look at this guy's website. He is a self-promoting nutritionist who should be sanctioned for making diagnoses without ever examining the patient. It's totally unethical.

And all you people waving your credentials around while doing the same thing, you might want to look at your specialty society's ethical guidelines. Making public diagnoses without having examined a patient is wrong.

A discussion on the whether the condition exists or not is one thing. Pegging an ex-President with having it is quite another.

[govegan]

121. The $45,000,000,000 boondoggle

Unforgivable, but true.

The wealth-prestige-power oligarchy is quite pleased with themselves, and obeisance to their material technology with the big bucks attached.

Dr. McDougall is one of the few in his profession who actually adhere to scientific inquiry, pursuit of truth and the health and well being of his patients.

Unforgivable, but true.

Unbelievable, but true: What one does perhaps three times a day in exposing one's vital organs to the environment in the most intimate way does actually have an effect upon the functioning of those organs. :wtf: :think: :crazy:

How could that be?

Having been vegan for quite some time, I must confess that I too suffer sleep disturbances and nightmares.

This condition is exacerbated by the thoughts of people like the Clintons, Reagans & Bush's in the Whitehouse.

After all, won't the dead be raised incorruptible?

I assign my crooked backbone
to the dice maker, to chop into dice,
for casting lots as to who shall see his own blood
on his shirt front and who his brother's,
for the race isn't to the swift but to the crooked.

To the last man surviving on earth
I give my eyelids worn out by fear, to wear
in his long nights of radiation and silence,
so that his eyes can't close, for regret
is like tears seeping through closed eyelids. (Kinnell, Book of Nightmares)

May all of those long nights of radiation and silence bring us our most glorious victory!

And then we shall attack the weeds!

The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat. (Job 6: 7)

Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass? (Job 6: 12)

Is my strength the strength of the glass tubes? or is my flesh as depleted uranium?

Let us praise our molecular prestidigitation, and, yes, we shall have fries with that!

And we can say anything we want, because it shall be digested.
And we can leave it to the flies with their backs the hysterical color of green slime.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: