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The Unity Ticket: Obama Needs Hillary to be His Cheney

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:53 PM
Original message
The Unity Ticket: Obama Needs Hillary to be His Cheney
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 04:55 PM by McCamy Taylor
Yeah, yeah, flame away. But I am going to prove this with numbers.

First, here is a gallup poll that breaks down McCain, Obama and Clinton support by education which another way to indicate class in the US.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106381/Obama-Education-Gap-Extends-General-Election.aspx

Gallup analysis has demonstrated that in the Democratic nomination contest, Clinton's strength is currently among voters who are high school graduates or less and Obama's is with college graduates and postgraduates. But even in a general-election contest, educational differences are still evident.

If Obama is the Democratic nominee, McCain would appear to have a good chance of making inroads among voters with a high school education or less, who normally vote Democratic, but he would find himself in a tougher-than-usual fight for those who have a bachelor's degree only.

A Clinton-McCain election would be fought on more familiar partisan turf, with Clinton faring better among voters with the least and the most formal education, and McCain receiving solid support from those with a bachelor's degree.

The fact that in a Clinton-McCain contest, the education differences largely disappear when taking into account voters' party affiliation adds weight to the notion that such a contest would largely be fought along party lines, while an Obama-McCain matchup could change some of the normal Democratic and Republican political coalitions.


What does this mean? Obama/Clinton becomes Bush/Cheney in a purely numerical/political sense---I am not talking about their souls or characters. Obama has the wide appeal and the nontraditional characteristics that will allow him to “poach” traditional Republican voters. Since these voters will have college degrees, they will be relatively well off---they will probably have jobs with benefits and for the moment they will be sheltered from the effects of the economy. This will allow them the luxury to select whichever candidate they believe best embodies the spirit of America or will make America respected again in the world---the “hope” candidate---since they will not have as many pressing immediate needs. They can vote for purely moral issues, like the war, on which Obama has such a stellar record.

Hillary will reach out to the Democratic base—the group that does not have a college education and which has born the brunt of the lay offs and loss of industrial jobs—the same way that Cheney reached out to the Republican base for W. She will be able to keep McCain from “poaching” from the Democratic base the way that W. poached from the Democratic base in 2000 with his good old boy I'm just a compassionate conservative act. This is going to be McCain's strategy with his maverick-straight shooter-I spent 5 years in a box campaign.

Hillary’s current high negativity rating will not mean squat as a VP candidate. A vice presidential candidate's job is to criticize the opposing team. Cheney was an asshole. The only person who had to like him was W. Hillary can be as spunky as she wants, and she will be doing the VP's job. Plus, the public knows that she and Bill can handle a foreign policy crisis----this takes away any concern that Barack Obama may not have passed the commander-in-chief test. That was another function that Cheney served for W.

Neither candidate is going to win this on delegates---as long as Michigan and Florida’s contests are declared illegal. Super delegates will decide it. However, if Florida is snubbed, the Democrats may have to kiss goodbye a key state. The Obama/Clinton ticket should placate the voters of Florida and Michigan. They can be told that Super delegates have decided that this arrangement is the one most likely to prevail this fall.

If Hillary is not included on the ticket, her loyal following within the Democratic Party is likely to do what McCarthy supporters did in 1968 and Humphrey supporters did in 1972---this is part of the RNC’s brokered Democratic Convention strategy. Even if Hillary Clinton herself campaigns for Obama, the corporate media can fan the flames of resentment inside the party by writing articles in which they suddenly discover that Obama and his supporters were criticizing Hillary and planting stories about Hillary and saying nasty things about Hillary at the same time that everyone was calling Hillary a bitch for unilaterally attacking Obama. If the NeoCon press backs McCain, which they almost certainly will do, they will want to contrast his “good guy” image with a picture of Obama as a dirty Daley style politician (McCain’s camp has already announced that this is their strategy) and uncovering every unkind sexist remark that an Obama surrogate ever said about the former first lady in a Washington Post expose would be the best way to do this. Recall that McCain has recently issued an order that his people are not to criticize Hillary at all. Why do you think that is? It isn’t because he thinks he will run against Hillary in the general election. Everyone knows that Obama will be the nominee. McCain plans to make sure that when they launch the smear Obama only got nominated because he used sexist dirty tricks against Hillay that the Obama camp can not find a bunch of sexist stuff that McCain and his people have said. McCain is going to present himself as a gentleman and Obama as a sexist pig.

All it will take is a couple of journalist coming forward and saying "This Obama staffer/surrogate gave me this memo or asked me to run this story about Hillary without saying whom I got it from, and at the time I didn't think much about it, but now it troubles me, because...." for the shit to hit the fan. Remember, "Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)" and "The Race Memo" were both examples of that kind of politics that blew up in the Obama camps face. There just might be more out there, stuff that went to journalists who were not honest enough to reveal it immediately but who decided to share it with their bosses at the RNC and hold it until the general election.

This kind of smear can finish Obama off in the general by turning women---a key Democratic voting group---away from him. This is probably the number one reason that he and Hillary need to defy all expectations and get on the same ticket. If they are running together, it does not matter what they said to or about each other. That was all just politics. No hard feelings. They can laugh about it together over whiskey shots.

Obama and Clinton need to swallow their personal animosity and their ambition---yeah, I know that Bill wants to be president again, but he has plenty to do being ex-president. And I know that Obama is going to be very uncomfortable having Hillary and Bill there telling him what to do, but he can just tell them to shut up if they are being annoying and they might actually have some good advice —and do it for the good of the country.

If no one listens to me, which is usually the case, I will come back once the Obama stole the nomination with sexist dirty tricks smears start with a great big I told you so. But I won’t enjoy it. As many times as I have been right about what the RNC and their whores in the MSM have been up to, you would think that someone would listen to me by now.

That call from McCain for his supporters to not attack Hillary should have been a great big warning flag to everyone. When have Republicans ever not attacked Hillary? Drudge says that McCain wants to face Hillary in the General, but when has Drudge ever told the truth?

http://drudgereport.com/flash1jm.htm



Look at that photo? Doesn't McCain look like a kindly, courtly feminist friendly man? McCain was making himself out to be a first class defender of women. Now, why would he do that unless he plans to smear Obama as the biggest sexist pig since Archie Bunker in the general.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Clinton people get stupid when they lose. I'm glad Edwards people didn't.
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youngharry Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
69. Clinton, Obama's Cheney
I'm not sure what planet you're on, but people said that to Jack Kennedy about Lyndon Johnson and as someone on one of the posts recently said--"that didn't turn out very well." Not well at all. Obama deserves his own VP and a complete break with the past.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. I'm on a planet where the nominee chooses his or her veep based on what the veep can deliver...
... Clinton delivers NOTHING to Obama.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. not according to the article
which I doubt you even read judging by the stupidity of your responses.

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. The article is stupid.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. I can see you put a lot of thought into your posts
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #73
96. Except half the democratic party....
...1/3 of Democrats say they will not vote for Obama, largely because his supporters are so abusive. He just might have no choice. Personally I would like to see him choose Clark or Gore as a running mate.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hillarys negatives are over 50% now
Far higher than her positives.

That would be suicide for Obama to take onboard someone so disliked.
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metamars Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
52. Do you mean Hillary "Screw 'Em" Clinton?
Do you mean Hillary "Screw 'Em" Clinton? I can't imagine why she'd have such high negatives....

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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. I thought McCain's plan was to get the Jewish vote by painting Obama as an anti-semite?
That's the vibe I'm getting from the GOP right now.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bullfreakingcrap. Never. Not ever. She won't get to the WH riding his coattails after what
she's done. She's finished as a politician. I'll wager it. And all your "words" won't change that.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. If I were president I'm not sure I would trust having Hillary as VP
I don't think I could trust her to be what a VP has to be--loyal to the president. As far as having her on the ticket. NO, I don't see it. Obama is all about change and putting Clinton on it doesn't really represent change. He also needs to pick somebody with national security experience and Hillary doesn't fill that bill either, despite her 3 O' clock ad. I think he goes with Biden or Richardson or even Webb of VA.
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
45. I know one thing..
I sure as heck wouldn't want to be the only person between Hillary Clinton and 10 years as president.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Dear God.
WTF?

- as
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Mags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. If Hillary went for the VP with BO , that would be the only thing that
would make me give up on her. He doesn't deserve some one like her to bail him out.
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book_worm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Will you be voting for Obama in November?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I will vote for the Democratic nominee.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. So, you'll be voting for Obama then.
NT!

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salib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
84. We all will
After all of this, we will be an incredible number of Dems who can overwhelm ANY vote rigging.

It is all good, after all.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
85. As will I - but excellent analysis - indeed Hillary as VP is only way many would work for Obama
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Mags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. have to think about it long and hard.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. HAHAHA! Hillary = ANCHOR.
Bail him out? She'd sink his ass.

58% think she's dishonest and untrustworthy.

- as
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. I get it
you have never met reality, have you? :crazy:

:freak:

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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
54. If Obama chose Hillary, I would no longer support Obama....
I won't vote for Hillary. Period. If Obama was to choose her as VP--which will NEVER happen now--then he would have one less vote to count on.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sure way for Obama to lose the GE....
...allow Hillary on the ticket as VP. He would be out of his mind to do this!
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. I assume that you people are speed readers. 1 and 2 minutes to read this post and the link
with all the numbers?
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. There is your mistake, you actually believe any one will
come to rationalize this shit by reading a 500 word post about unity?
Wow.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. Wrong assumption. No one READS your posts anymore.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
48. You are a saint
You keep on trying to teach. It reminds me of those dedicated souls who toil in the middle school classrooms of America. Day after day they bring out truth and enlightenment to place in front of a room full of adolescents. They too get heckled and ignored. You have the same audience as indicated by the adolescent replies you read here. They are full of themselves and bask in what they don't know. Ignorance is their virtue as they chase the current hot trend so they can be cool. Just like those teachers, you do encounter minds that want to know, that will engage in thought and reflection. But most just want to have a little fun and ignore tomorrow. i know that you, like teachers everywhere, do it for the few. Bless you. Of course they don't read what you write. Too much trouble. They are used to replies that they can thumb in during study hall or between classes. They don't need to read or learn. All they know it that you sit at the icky table and they are allowed to ignore and ridicule you, though you stand out as a bright light in the dim room that DU has become.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
59. Oh, you are too sweet!
:loveya:
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
95. What we all have to learn to accept is....
that folks born in the post- "Sesame Street" era have an impaired attention span. Posts like McCamy's are FAR beyond it.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
58. No one bothers to read your patently dishonest horseshit anymore, I'm guessing.
NT!

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. you KNOW the insurance cos and lobbyist will agree with you
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 04:58 PM by WillYourVoteBCounted
The health insurance companies and pharmaceutical co's have only one chance -
and that's Hillary.

She came through them before, she'll fight for them again.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. There are other choices out there for Obama that would do much
more than anything Hillary could ever do to help Obama win the GE.

Your first link is not opening for me.

Your second link is from Drudge, and I don't want to go there to see what is truly there.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. The first link opens for me. The second just has that picture and McCain saying "Be nice to Hill"
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. I believe Hillary would HURT Obama if she were his VP. McCain would get a boost from this.
The right wing would come out in droves just to vote against her. It would be like 2004 again except this time they used Hillary instead of gay marriage to turn out the Repub vote.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Not as VP. Agnew and Quayle could not turn off Dems but they brought out GOPers.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. NOBODY needs a Cheney.
"That call from McCain for his supporters to not attack Hillary..." - yet.
:puke::crazy:
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. You put Hillary on the ticket...
...you turn out the Republican base and undercut Obama's ability to win converts. A bunch of the normally red states that Obama has a chance to put in play go right back into the safe colum for McCain if you put the prospect of the Clintons back in the white House out there in front of the republicans... and lets McCain re-focus his far more limitted resources on less states he needs to defend and take to win the election.

Hillary doesn't help Obama, she hurts him, so no he doesn't need her. It would be a mistake to put her on the ticket. A bad one.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. OMG - you are now comparing Hillary to Cheney
and you call yourself a Hillary supporter, that is one of the most horrific insults imaginable, calling her a Dick.

:rofl:

Now it is official, you have stepped into that other world where sanity is but a distant memory. :freak:



Hillary as VPOTUS, why her popularity sucks as much as her warm and loving personality. :rofl:
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Poor Cheney must be crying right now!
At last!Mwahahahaha!:rofl:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. actually, the op is insulting obama more than hill.
he's suggesting that obama is a stupid puppet in need of a puppetmaster.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. But you see, the OP is calling Hillary a Dick, he is the most loathesome
creature on this planet.

And I don't read the OP's full tales of obsession and insanity, I've bored with the distortions and the omissions.

Let the obsessed fans pitch their dreams, she ain't gonna get in the White House in any official capacity.

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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Hillary's negatives are too high.nt
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. Great idea!
Oh,wait I thought you said Obama Needs Hillary to clean His Chimney. :P
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. It would only be fair.
After all, he did clean her clock.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:54 PM
Original message
SNAP.
NT!

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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. Take a few days off.
Seriously.
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liberaldem4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. There are better choices than HRC
I don't think Clinton is a good choice at all. And I seriously don't think there is any way that he would pick her now.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
24. you proved exactly nothing. in fact, what you posit, can't be proved
and frankly, you're letting your imagination run wild.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. No one ever believes me. 6 people responded when I warned about the Press v. John Edwards in 1-07
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. LOL!
Cassandra you may believe you are, but you ain't.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. At least today Obama supporters aren't
"Nazis," like Mussolini, or "goose-stepping." This is a step up.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Oh hell no. He doesn't need her toxic self dragging him down.
No, no, no, no, no.

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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
31. Um...
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 05:11 PM by cui bono
No.

And how would she possibly be able to show support for him after all she's done to slime him?
Plus, we all know she's doing everything she can to become president in the primary, can you imagine putting a person with her lack of loyalty, morals and ethics a heartbeat away from the presidency? Yeah... riiiiiiiight.

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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. First, I didnt even read your post, second, you need to back
away from what ever it is you are smoking.
I do not want that Clinton smell anywhere near Obama come the GE. Not even close.
Your girl can ride along on the Big Dogs coat tails all she wants but in no way, shape or form is she worthy of any VP consideration.
Seriously, kiss my ass and fuck these 'unity' ideas.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. Not.Gonna.Happen.Ever. Keep that Crown Royal velvet pouch on hand for your broken dreams.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. My dreams of health care and getting out of Iraq?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Your dream of shoving your candidate down our throats.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. My candidate is still John Edwards. I wish that Obama and Hillary knock each other out
and they would draft Edwards at the convention because they want someone who acts like a grown up. However, it is not likely, so I am going to make do with whatever we have got. Because I want the Democrats to win.

Right now, the Democrats are not acting like winners, and it ain't just Hillary's fault.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. The Democrats have decided & it's time people pull up their socks and accept it.

New Poll Says Most Democrats Prefer Obama as Party's Nominee

By VOA News
16 April 2008
http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-04-16-voa40.cfm

A new opinion poll indicates most U.S. Democrats would prefer to see Senator Barack Obama emerge as the party's presidential nominee despite recent attacks describing him as "elitist."

The poll shows Obama with a 10-point lead over rival Senator Hillary Clinton. It also shows Obama with a two-to-one lead on which of the two Democrats is considered more electable in the general election in November.

The polling took place during a controversy over Obama's remarks describing small-town Americans as "bitter." Both Clinton and Republican presidential candidate John McCain responded by calling Obama "elitist."

The poll was conducted by The Washington Post newspaper and ABC News among a nationwide random sample of about 1,200 adults.

Both Obama and Clinton Wednesday released new television advertisements critical of each other ahead of an April 22 primary in the eastern state of Pennsylvania.

The candidates will hold a televised debate in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday night.

Obama has won several state nominating primaries or caucuses since the nominating process began in January, and leads in the number of pledged delegates who will select the Democratic nominee at the party's August convention in Denver, Colorado.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. But it was the corporate media that decided it for Dems first. If you do not understand that, then
you are completely mesmerized by the power of the news media. They shape which candidates we elect They declare Dennis unelectable and deny Edwards coverage while declaring a two man race between Obama and Hillary. They call Hillary a "liar" while saying that Obama "mispeaks". They say that Hillary raises money from Obama's political troubles, but do not mention that Obama does the same thing from Hillary's. They create fictions----and they can create new fictions.

People who think that Obama has the press wrapped around his little finger need to remember that Bush and Cheney have a whole room that has been devoted to spying on Americans. They can blackmail the members of the press at any time. The administration controls the corporate bosses through the FCC and the journalists through blackmail. If there is any dirt on Obama, the administration has it through their warrantless wirertap, and they will use it in the general election, because Karl Rove decided last year that Obama would be his McGovern.

So, continue to believe that the media whores who called Gore a liar and Edwards a phony and Hillary a bitch just love Obama and that they will continue to love him in the general and that he does not need to do anything except be himself----

And when they turn on him, half of his supporters will do what McGovern's supporters did in 1972 and say "How could I have been fooled by Obama?"

Or, you could get ready for a fight.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. Open your eyes and stop being such a wet blanket with your bent perspective on this.
I thank you in advance.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
76. Bullshit. I live in NH. The corporate media didnt decide a damn thing.
Super tough girl Hillary got weepy and the suckers in my state fell for it. If not for that, it would have been Obama, Edwards. Blame the crying lady for the fact that your guy is out. Her weepy ass would have been done for months ago if not for that... dont kid yourself.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #76
98. Bull - I'm just down the road and Obama could not sell himself in NH or Mass despite the TV and
Boston papers pushing as hard as hell.

When Obama played his race card to change the subject from his NH loss and stop her momentum, the media played along and tried to sell the Clintons as the most stupid racist politicians preparing for an election in which 60% of the vote would come from blacks in SC. It is the media that sold Obama to us.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #43
68. No, it isn't just her fault
her advisers and her supporters share the blame, their negative, toxic ways have harmed Hillary more than any opponent could ever do.

Shame is, they don't see it and John Edwards would not play this way, he would not condone the stuff you write, the negatives you generate, the smears and lies you promote.

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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. That about it if Hilly is in control...
...DREAMS...and NOTHING more.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #38
61. Great dreams. Not going to happen under clinton, because she won't be the nom.
NT!

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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
41. I have said this for a while, McCamy.
Her negatives are irrelevant as a vice presidential candidate. What she does give the ticket is legitimacy to working-class voters; voters who voted for Clinton and are distrustful of Obama. More importantly, picking Clinton as his VP gives him a way to reach the white female demographic, and that will be the swing demographic that ultimately decides this election. In addition, as you said, Hillary can be Obama's attack dog; much like what Cheney was to the Bush administration. Obama can stay above the fray while Hillary can attack the White House's enemies.

I will hold my noise if Hillary is the nominee, but I will not put my personal feelings for Hillary ahead of what is best for this country; and I feel that an Obama/Hillary ticket would be exactly what the Democrats need to take the White House in 2008.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #41
94. NJ Sec is right on...
PLUS:

1) As VP, Hill can "get stuff done" as us bitches are known to do. Away from the constant media glare.

2) Obama gets two pitbulls for the price of one. And... da Big Dawg is an asset, especially in the south.

I have also been of this mind for quite some time. Anyone with half a wit can see it.....
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
50. Obama doesn't need Hillary. He can win without her, but
she and her baggage, including Bill, could drag Obama down. No more scandals and lies.

Hillary and Bill need to "chill" for a long time.

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metamars Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Maybe Pres. Obama will make them ambassadors to Antarctica
I hear it's chilly there!
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
51. Clinton on the ticket is the ONE thing that would make me hesitate to vote for Obama.
So I hope, if he chooses her, there are enough women over 60 to make up for the millions of young people he would lose. And Im sure those ladies will be great at going door to door in preparation for November. Not to mention... building the Democratic party for the future.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
53. Bullshit. He doesn't need her high negatives, and we've already lived under one power-mad VP...
...who thinks he gets to pick his powers.

No one needs clinton, and I highly doubt she will be selected by the winner - Obama - as his running mate.

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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
57. Interesting as always.
But I have a different take on the subject of VP. I think that for each of the three candidates, we need to know who they plan on picking for the Veep slot now. It is more important that it ever was before. I don't want to be a downer, but this country does have a really nasty record of killing its leaders. Everyone makes fun of the Balkans and South America, but our history is a little more prone to violent changes of leadership through death than many others.


I worry that McCain only got the nomination because he is so old. The neocons don't worry about his being in their way even thought they don't like him. If they pick Romney as his mate, I don't think he will last a year. For his own safety, he should have a food taster and pick someone like Ted Kennedy as his VP.


And I don't think we have to discuss the violence involved in racism and sexism in our land of the ever ready gun in order to worry about the two Democratic candidates for the office. If our violent history is any lesson, we should be very concerned about the likelihood of a VP ascending to the office within a few years. Makes me sad to contemplate, but ignoring it is just a fantasy.
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
60. So You're Admitting She Won't Be The Nominee
and now you're going to lobby for the VP spot?
Would Bill become the vice-vice president?

Don't you get it? America doesn't want Hillary. period

And you wonder why people don't listen to you???

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. The OP's moved on to the "bargaining" stage of grief.
It's a step forward, anyway.

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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #63
71. We'll See More Of It
after next Tuesday.
It's a trickle now...
but the flood comes soon.
Even her base will
be swept away.
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susanwy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
88. not really half of america
Half of the democratic voters in the states that have voted. You totally missed the posters point.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #60
90. No, she can be the nominee, but Obama/Clinton is a better combo.
The nominee will be chosen by the Democratic leadership after they decide whether they need Florida's electoral votes this fall.

And that is going to depend on McCain's poll numbers this summer, If he is looking good, then Florida will have to be seated. Sorry to burst the bubble of the people who want to do it without Florida, but the Dem leadership wants to win and they do not care whom they win with.

So, if McCain looks bad then yeah they may disenfranchise Florida. But I would not count on it. And whatever they do to Florida, they will do to Michigan.

The party makes the rules. This is not the general election. If people do not like it the party will tell you to join another party. Most people will stay.
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RTBerry Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
64. Well-reasoned advice.
Ill received, of course.  Par for the course 'round here of
late.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
65. no fucking way
with so very many good people to choose from, why in hell would Obama choose a republican?
why would he choose someone who said McCain was better than he is?
why would he choose someone whom more than 50% of voters can't stand?

she has devoted 90% of her "campaign" to bashing Obama, instead of bashing McCain, so now he should run with her?

I will be soooo glad to see people like you gone from DU SOON--it's no secret you're not going to vote for Obama (as you admit above--wooo big surprise, since most of Hillary's "base" is just mindless dittoheads trying to fuck with the Democratic Party--so sorry your dumbass plan didn't work out), so bye-bye baby, because as noted above, the great majority of real Democrats want Obama, not some republican with a D after her name.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
66. Puke. No way. She deserves NOTHING.
The way she has conducted herself in the campaign precludes her from the VP slot.
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
67. I don't think that kind of desperation is required.
Most of the dems you cite Obama needing are being polarized by the tactics Hillary uses. Those people are waking up as, we are currently seeing. Their blinders might have remained in place, if Hillary had not continued the foolish lies and attacks.

Hillary on the ticket destroys Obama's message and credibililty. I believe his reach is a lot broader than has been considered.
His kind of campaign is different and needs a different style of polling.

I don't doubt that Hillary and some of her supporters will continue trying to sabotoge Obama in the GE, as well as voting for McCain. But, their threats now and in the GE are of lower risk, which can be countered by:

1) voters who simply want the war to end;
2) the number of voters Obama has brought in and will bring in;
3) the republicans that will sincerely vote democrat this year;
4) Obama's pick for his running mate; and
4) republicans attacking like republicans is expected and will not carry quite the same weight.



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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
70. Sorry, but Hillary just loves her some McCain and Bush to ever be an effective attack dog against
the Republicans. Not to many people take her seriously anyway, anymore.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
72. I will stay home if Hillary has anything to do with Mr. Thing!
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InfiniteNether Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
74. You all should read McCamy's series about the neoconservative press vs. the candidates.
He's been right so far. Don't knock his whole post because you don't like Hillary. I don't like her, either, and I say no to veep slot. But you all need to know about Nixon's pets and what they did to help him win in 1968 and 1972.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
75. I agreed with you up until Texas
she endorsed McCain and blew the dream ticket out of the water.

Everything you think she could bring to the table could be achieved by others. Her appeal to "salty" dems could be done better by Webb and he brings some tough soldier charm to counter McCain.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
77. Not going to happen.
There's no way. This is something that would lead to a Republican landslide. Putting someone eho's hugely unpopular, unlikeable, and viewed as dishonest by a majority of Americans on the ticket is not a way to win elections.
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BryMan Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
78. Bull
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 07:01 PM by BryMan
I think Webb should be the hammer inside Obama's velvet glove. Hillary has far too many negatives than a relatively unknown Cheney had comming to the big game in 2000. If she was just a senator, not known to the public like she currently is you might be right.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
82. The last thing we need is another Cheney.
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
83. One problem
Edited on Wed Apr-16-08 08:54 PM by dbmk
Aside from the obvious problems with having someone with Hillarys negative scores on the ticket, the current polings are not really trustworthy. (And I am not sure I would like the idea of the VPs husband being the former president if I was Obama)
I have read quite a few accounts now on how all the pollsters, even the GOPs, expect a bump for the eventual Democratic nominee - when it is decided finally. So until that happens and the numbers are in - then you can't really base your choice of VP on them.

And it is a far stretch to say the numbers presented in that article necessarily back the choice of having precisely Hillary on the ticket - as opposed to someone else that could supposedly cover that demographic better. If it was seen as needed.

Is she technically a good fit? Yes, it appears so. Practically its a different ballgame though, given her campaign, Bill at her side and her high negatives. And the fact that if he picks her, the press will have a 4 year field day openly debating on who calls the shots in the WH. Him, her or Bill?

And as far as McCain calling his dogs of his drinking buddy - that is very likely a calculated move from someone that knows she has lost, but sees her doing his job for him atm. Why on earth should they be attacking someone that they know they will not be going up against, but atm needs all the credibility she can scrounge up to land hits on Obama?
The GOP knows who they will be facing in the GE.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
86. You're a brave person, McCamy.
But it's looking more each day that if there is to be healing and unity in the country, it has to start in the Democratic Party.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
87. Maybe Hillary should be McCains VP?
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-16-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
89. You might be onto something.
Except I don't believe Obama will choose a VP, nor will Hillary choose a VP, just as Reagan didn't choose GHWB, nor did Gore choose Joe, nor did Kerry choose Edwards, to the best of my knowledge. It's all arranged by studying demographics.

Not much brouhaha in the GOP over the torture revelations. I expect to see Colin Powell as McCain's VP. Gads, Obama would look like a widdle kiddie next to Colin.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
91. I don't see any numbers. n/t
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
92. Tonight we saw ABC begin to do what I said the MSM would do to Obama.
Few have commented upon one of the most damaging comments that the moderators made in their assault upon Obama's character. It may have passed right by some people. They said that the Obama camp has sent out numerous emails about the Hillary Sniper incident calling her a liar.

This is significant, because Obama has tried to give the impression that he is above this kind of politics of personal destruction.

From tonight:

"The problem that we have in our politics, which is fairly typical, is that you take one person's statement, if it's not properly phrased, and you just beat it to death. And that's what Sen. Clinton's been doing over the last four days," he said.


However a simple google found these in a few seconds:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/attack-of-the-emails-as-clinton-bites-back/2008/03/26/1206207206759.html

The Obama campaign pounced on the remark, sending reporters an email which listed examples of Senator Clinton saying last northern winter that she ran from her plane in Bosnia or suggesting sniper fire cleared the tarmac. Television footage showed that she walked calmly and was greeted by a child.


http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/03/hillary-clinton-misstatement-about.html

Barack Obama's campaign spokesman, Tommy Vietor, issued a comment about the Bosnia blip, where he says that her story "joins a growing list of instances in which Senator Clinton has exaggerated her role in foreign and domestic policy-making."

Sinbad, a known Obama supporter, brings a little levity to the whole situation by saying that the scariest part of the trip for him was wondering where the next meal would come from.


Now this whole thing started because Obama broke the "Final Rule" of Gary Hart in December and said that Hillary' foreign policy was just drinking tea with foreign dignitaries.

Sen. Barack Obama dismissed her foreign policy experience as little more than sipping tea with potentates..."It's that experience, that understanding, not just of what world leaders I went and talked to in the ambassador's house, who I had tea with."
WaPo Dec 2007

In addition to sending emails about Sniper-gate was it Obama who sent the emails to the press about how Trimble, the conservative Irish politician said that Hillary was no help in Northern Ireland to KO and others but neglected to send emails mentioning that John Hume, the Nobel Prize winning Irish Catholic liberal politician and bunch of others had challenged Trimble and said that Hillary did play a key role ? Was his camp responsible for a slew of other distortions that made the rounds of the news media about her foreign policy at that time? There was no sniper fire, but everything else she had said was true. Only someone went to a lot of trouble to create a package and send it around to journalists and get them to print it. And as we know from previous elections, lots of lazy journalists will let campaigns do their work for them if they dish up some dirt.

Tonight, when ABC revealed that Obama has been sending out emails calling Hillary a liar they did just the kind of thing I was talking about above. Do not be surprised if you do not see more of this in the future. Hell, the mere fact that we are talking about it here may cause them to accelerate plans to use the strategy, since Obama could thwart their plans by suddenly making nice with Hillary--declaring a cease fire, stopping all negative campaigning, forming a strategy to begin attacking only McCain. FOX had to rush out those videos because Wright was about to retire and they would not have been as effective against a former pastor.

If I were Obama, I would start being Mr. Nice Guy in fact and not just as an act yesterday.



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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #92
97. Just finished watching most of it.
OMG....

After that I think we may be back in line for a Clinton/Obama ticket? Shocking!

I'll say this... Mr. Obama has finally been "vetted." He has had a taste of what press scrutiny is really like for a Dem. Prez.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #97
99. I agree - but many on DU hate Hillary so much that they would rather Obama lose than she be VP
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
93. Been saying this since......
before I came to D.U.

It is on target and likley to be the ticket.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
100. Bill Clinton; "yes I'll attend cabinet meetings... if I'm asked" Hillary no-way!
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guyanakoolaid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
101. Hillaryous... "I am going to prove this with numbers"... then NO NUMBERS!
But numbers and math are not Clinton's friends at this point.

Also you said "Hillary will reach out to the Democratic base". That is simply too funny for any emoticon to express.
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goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
102. lol, obamas cheney. thats clever. - nt
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Ztarbod Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
103. NO! No more Cheneys!
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