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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:03 AM
Original message
Obama Wins an unusual Wednesday night Debate
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_steven_l_080417_obama_wins_an_unusua.htm
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April 17, 2008

By Steven Leser

- “If you are the one being criticized and everyone is talking about your responses did you win the debate because nobody seems to be mentioning the other candidate?” MSNBC’s Keith Olberman, 4/16/08 10:48pm approximately 90 minutes after the debate
---------------------

Barack Obama did win the debate tonight but not by doing the things you would normally associate with what it takes to win one. Neither Obama nor Hillary were really offered the chance to win it in a traditional way. This was a debate where as Howard Fineman put it (And I’ll paraphrase because I don’t remember his exact words), “Four people did their best to hurt Barack Obama. There were the two moderators, Hillary Clinton and by proxy, John McCain.”

The great damage that was done tonight to both Hillary Clinton and John McCain was that this hurricane was unleashed on Obama and he handled it with poise. Of course, with all of this negative attention focused on him, if you evaluate the debate by more traditional measures you would have to give a slight edge to Hillary. The problem for Senators Clinton and McCain is that their slim hope is that they can portray Obama as unready or out of touch. Not only did Obama not appear that way, but by handling this onslaught, he proved he is eminently ready and can handle and perform under a lot of pressure. Even worse for her, Clinton was forced to admit under direct questioning that Obama is electable and can beat McCain.

One of the major storylines after this debate is going to be whether ABC will change its three letter name to RNC which would stand for “Republican Name Calling”. Every thing that the moderators could think of that might hurt Obama was raised and asked from a number of different angles. As both Keith Olberman and Howard Fineman said afterwards on Countdown, the four main Republican talking points on Obama were the center of the debate, Pastor Wright, Bitter, Flag Pin and Ayers. To be fair, Hillary did not come out of this debate unscathed. The moderators zeroed in on her poll numbers that showed that almost 60% of Americans don’t find her honest and trustworthy. That statistic was mentioned in the opening portion of a question that centered on Hillary’s misstatements on her trip to Tuzla, Bosnia. Thus, even though Obama was the center of negative attention, Hillary supporters have a lot to be unhappy about here as well.

Almost not talked about at all were the economy, foreign policy (except for two minor exchanges on the Middle East), NAFTA, the credit crisis, housing foreclosures or any of the other things that most Americans really care about. The only thing that the moderators put out as a discussion point relative to the economy was taxes. Moderators spent what seemed like a third of the debate talking about what taxes Clinton or Obama would raise or cut. If people lose their jobs and their homes then there wont be any taxes for them to pay. Focusing on taxes is a Republican way of thinking about the economy.

I think after this debate, Democrats are going to be reluctant in the future to agree to any ABC (aka RNC) debates. Before the debate was halfway complete, the blogosphere was erupting in outrage at the lack of questions about substantive issues. Obama wins this debate because everyone and this includes Hillary and the moderators behaved as if he is already the presumptive nominee and for Hillary to have changed that dynamic, she needed a knockout. The fact that a knockout wasn’t scored and no real harm was done to Obama at all despite the best efforts of Hillary and the moderators all trying to hurt him is bad news for Hillary. This was the last debate and her last chance to change the narrative of the race. Since she didn’t do that, it underscores the reality that she has lost this race. Speaking of losers, ABC is going to receive a lot of criticism in the mainstream media for the way they conducted this debate but the news is not all bad for them. They could parley this effort into a real play for a share of Faux, I mean Fox News’ conservative viewing audience. Or, with their perfection of a television version of Page 6 gossip journalism perhaps they can create a new reality show called political survivor.
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LulaMay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA. You win because people are talking about your screw-ups? KO's GONE BABY, GONE
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Politics is clearly not something you understand (n/t)
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Neither is good message board etiquette.
Disruptors here typically have those two things in common, among others.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. I have you on ignore too. I guess there is something wrong with the Ignore function tonight.
Ignore is definitely my friend!
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Great piece steven. And I too, have that one on ignore. I hate these
high traffic nights, because we have to sacrifice the one function that makes this place bearable anymore. She is absolutely one of the worst.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. It really makes me feel like I am in an assylum! (yes, the misspelling is an intentional pun)
;-)
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Oh, I thought it was just me whose ignore wasn't working...
Edited on Thu Apr-17-08 01:25 AM by knixphan
feel better now.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Oh you again. Hey, whats on Faux. If anyone would know, it would be you.
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. The only thing you succeed at is being first to reply to an OP.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. He was wonderful, presidential in fact, knocking that weak shit back.
He did it with grace and dignity and spoke the truth.

Fabulous. :hi:
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I was very impressed how he handled their thug routine.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. So was I.
He's ready.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Thanks for reminding me why I have you on my ignore list. I wonder why I am seeing your posts again.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Excellent review of the debate......
and we have the same people on ignore. LOL!
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'll be so glad when Obama's the nominee, and these "ignored" assholes
are no longer welcome here. I'll have to try again tomorrow, when all the features have been restored. Goodnight All.

:hi:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. G'night Tarheel! See you tomorrow, the trolls, not so much!
;-)
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. You know what they say about Brilliant minds, Frenchie!!!!!
:yourock:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. Delete.
Edited on Thu Apr-17-08 01:36 AM by sfexpat2000
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'll give you a recommend.
You are correct that people will be talking about the debate in terms of the moderator attacks and Obama's reactions and answers. They will begin to forget about the specifics Hillary had to say regarding policy.
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TheDoorbellRang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. We need the League of Women Voters back in charge
This was the worst travesty of a so-called debate I've ever wasted time watching.

K&R for a good analysis
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VenusRising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I said that to my husband tonight.
Bring back the League of Women Voters!!

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. God, yes.
Women run things so much better.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Why arent they in charge anymore
when exactly did that happen. I know they havent been in charge for a while, I just dont know why and when.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Agree'd
though I would say that even the League of "D's get degree's" Voters would have turned out a better result that POS I just subjected myself too.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. Great analysis Steven..thank you.
Obama is being presidential even when the hounds of hell are slobbering on feeding frenzy.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
29. Thank you Zidzi!!!!!
;-)

:toast:
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. yep.
"This was the last debate and her last chance to change the narrative of the race. Since she didn’t do that, it underscores the reality that she has lost this race."

yep.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. Kicked, rec'd and dug. Nice job!
:hi:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Thank you sfexpat!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R
:kick:
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Thanks Myrna!
:hi:
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ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-17-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. knr
:kick:
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